"We cant blame the white people any longer"

[HERESY]

I applaud Heresy and Parkboyz for trying to bring an informed point of view to this very ignorant board -lord knows I wouldn't waste my time arguring back and forth on this subject. I just wanna say though, that if any of you have a chance, take some sociology classes specializing in education and inequality, residential segregation and discrimination, race and it's correlation to poverty, and so on. That should give you a scientific basis for whatever your arguement is. Cause it's not as simple as blacks like to live in the ghetto. Or blacks don't like education, or any of the asinine things many of you are spouting off. Please read some history, delve yourself into some sociology and then come back, and post an intelligent response.

If you ask the majority of members of this board to tell you about gentrification, and how it has caused problems within urban communities, you'll hear crickets. If you ask them about any theory relating to crime/deviance and how it relates to poverty they are going to blow a fuse.

I'm speaking from experience here.

 

[ParkBoyz]

I applaud Heresy and Parkboyz for trying to bring an informed point of view to this very ignorant board -lord knows I wouldn't waste my time arguring back and forth on this subject. I just wanna say though, that if any of you have a chance, take some sociology classes specializing in education and inequality, residential segregation and discrimination, race and it's correlation to poverty, and so on. That should give you a scientific basis for whatever your arguement is. Cause it's not as simple as blacks like to live in the ghetto. Or blacks don't like education, or any of the asinine things many of you are spouting off. Please read some history, delve yourself into some sociology and then come back, and post an intelligent response.

We're all trying to in some way inform or enlighten a few individuals on here, but as you can see it is very difficult given their uneducated and stubborn opinions. This is the very process which hindered the progression of abolition, Jim Crow, and yesterday's struggle. You're seeing history in this very thread my friend, ignorant people holding America back (which doesn't exclude black people either)..

 

[JLMACN]

No, actually they speak from I am black, was born black, was raised as black, and experience black life everday perspective, but you sit here and tell us blacks what's what about black people. I don't give my opinons on the many troubles of Mexican people, and how I believe they can be fixed so why do you feel you are entitled to do so concerning blacks just because some old, black uncle tom decides to finally "step up" for black people?

again...he was not calling out JUST BLACK PEOPLE..
he was calling out the LOWER INCOME PEOPLE..

get that????

LOWER INCOME PEOPLE.

^^^because of this^^^^
This:

I don't give my opinons on the many troubles of Mexican people, and how I believe they can be fixed so why do you feel you are entitled to do so concerning blacks just because some old, black uncle tom decides to finally "step up" for black people?

has no foundation.

but since you brought it up Ill speak. Whats different about your (a black man) situation from mine? tell me what is so fucking different?
Slavery? been there. Poverty? done that. descrimination? covered.

please tell me why I cant speak on what BILL COSBY...Not you...is speaking on.

@ HERESY....yea you got me playa.

amen.

5000

 

[I AM]

Go down to the south and see how many of those red neck fucks are literate.

I had a prof who taught in Arkansas or some shit, he said in a town like 30 minutes away, only 1/3 of the people could fucking read.

Lack of education is part of the problem, but so is funding for the schools. Some schools in New York spend like $25,000 each year on ONE student alone...where as in lower income neighborhoods they only spend $2,500 each year on ONE student.

It's outrageous.

 

[Dhadnot]

There are similarities in general due to us being non-anglo saxon minorities, but when we get into particularities...the expanse between the Ameridian and the African is grandiose. If I were to go into all of the ones I'm aware of, it would take so long, so I rather not.

And Cosby is not talking about low income people. He is talking about low income blacks. Come on, with all the "Shaniqua" talk and making fun of blacks who take on Muslim names. What poor Latino, white, Arab, etc. is named Shaniqua?

I forgot to address your question on why you shouldn't be able to speak on the subject...of course you should and are able to speak on any subject you feel you want to address, but what I'm trying to imply is you do not know enough about the "lower income" black peoples' side to just jump to the conclusion that Cosby is right. Cosby might feel he is droppin some quality wisdom, and yes some of what he has said is truthful, but there are countless gaps in his rhetoric. Cosby is just running off from the mouth because he can, but where is the genuine attempt to understand and really help out blacks like Harry Belafonte? Cosby hasn't been on the front lines fighting for our rights, he's been in the back, throwing some money, and making jokes.

 

[Dhadnot]

If you ask the majority of members of this board to tell you about gentrification, and how it has caused problems within urban communities, you'll hear crickets. If you ask them about any theory relating to crime/deviance and how it relates to poverty they are going to blow a fuse.

I'm speaking from experience here.

I know Heresy. It's funny but frightening at the same time.

 

[I AM]

And Cosby is not talking about low income people. He is talking about low income blacks. Come on, with all the "Shaniqua" talk and making fun of blacks who take on Muslim names. What poor Latino, white, Arab, etc. is named Shaniqua?

I think people understand this, what they (and I) are saying is that it's NOT just the low income blacks, but that's the ONLY group he mentioned.

 

[HERESY]

We have millionaire football players who cannot read. We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs

He made reference to atheletes making millions of dollars. Surely people who make millions of dollars are not low income.

 

[Dhadnot]

He made reference to atheletes making millions of dollars. Surely people who make millions of dollars are not low income.

Totally missed that...Cosby is talking about blacks in general.

 

[ParkBoyz]

again...he was not calling out JUST BLACK PEOPLE..
he was calling out the LOWER INCOME PEOPLE..

get that????

LOWER INCOME PEOPLE.

^^^because of this^^^^
This:



has no foundation.

but since you brought it up Ill speak. Whats different about your (a black man) situation from mine? tell me what is so fucking different?
Slavery? been there. Poverty? done that. descrimination? covered.

please tell me why I cant speak on what BILL COSBY...Not you...is speaking on.

@ HERESY....yea you got me playa.

amen.

5000

The difference is that most of the Amerindian slaves died and their northern descendants have casinos, land, community organization, and sovereignty. Their southern descendants have their own country (Mexico).. As far as a solution to the Mexican plight, that's of the concern of the Mexican leadership, you don't see armies of black people protesting immigration, who's beasting up on eses besides the government and racists?

 

[Dhadnot]

Don't forget which race is regarded as the lowest according to caste systems in both hemispheres.

 

[Ethereal]

Whats with the "Most of the [white] members on this board" rubbish. It appears to be some delusive trickery to me. How can anyone on this board speak for the majority when half of the so-called "unanswered" questions have yet to be asked. Rather than babble on about how whites won't address this issue or how they won't answer that question, how about you actually engage in these conversations. Until then, spare me and the rest of the readers the time taken to ponder these unfounded implications.

What concerns me is this: It has been said that whites should press the issue for equality and reparations, etc. But how can anyone expect a white man/woman to do this when the "blacks" around them are making no such effort themselves. One should expect, in terms of being "helped", only the effort that he himself is willing to put forth, and nothing more.

Sooner or later people are going to have to distinguish between what should be and what IS. Years ago in this forum I said that every black person must take it upon him/herself to better their own lives and the lives of their children. Never did I say this is the way things should be, but with respect to what we can expect from those in power, this is the way it is going to be for a very long time.

White America thought it would be great to make bank off of gangsta rap and all that shit, not it's IN the culture, and it's IN our society....

Would you agree that, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink? Nobody was forced into these situations, even if it seemed to be the most profitable avenue. The fact of the matter is, blacks are selling themselves out just as quickly as corporate America is picking up on them. The same thing has happened to peoples of all colors with mocking images/trends set in music and television.

If you crackers didn't want it to happen, you shouldn't have FUCKED things up MORE.

FUCK HONKIES.

This is just DUMB.

 

[ParkBoyz]

Whats with the "Most of the [white] members on this board" rubbish. It appears to be some delusive trickery to me. How can anyone on this board speak for the majority when half of the so-called "unanswered" questions have yet to be asked. Rather than babble on about how whites won't address this issue or how they won't answer that question, how about you actually engage in these conversations. Until then, spare me and the rest of the readers the time taken to ponder these unfounded implications.

What concerns me is this: It has been said that whites should press the issue for equality and reparations, etc. But how can anyone expect a white man/woman to do this when the "blacks" around them are making no such effort themselves. One should expect, in terms of being "helped", only the effort that he himself is willing to put forth, and nothing more.

Sooner or later people are going to have to distinguish between what should be and what IS. Years ago in this forum I said that every black person must take it upon him/herself to better their own lives and the lives of their children. Never did I say this is the way things should be, but with respect to what we can expect from those in power, this is the way it is going to be for a very long time.



Would you agree that, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink? Nobody was forced into these situations, even if it seemed to be the most profitable avenue. The fact of the matter is, blacks are selling themselves out just as quickly as corporate America is picking up on them. The same thing has happened to peoples of all colors with mocking images/trends set in music and television.



This is just DUMB.

So who's to blame for the plight of minorities in your opinion? If the parents, why do they act that way and what could of affected them in the context of society?

 

[I AM]

I think you should all read, "the politics of experience."

it deals with some of the ways we as a society are destructive to human's and a lot of other topics I'm sure would interest many of you. It was written in the 60's, but the thought process is still progressive and it's only like 200 pages...so it's a light read.

 

[xpanther206]

Go down to the south and see how many of those red neck fucks are literate.

I had a prof who taught in Arkansas or some shit, he said in a town like 30 minutes away, only 1/3 of the people could fucking read.

Lack of education is part of the problem, but so is funding for the schools. Some schools in New York spend like $25,000 each year on ONE student alone...where as in lower income neighborhoods they only spend $2,500 each year on ONE student.

It's outrageous.

Point taken, but it's not applicable universally b/c a lot of urban school districts now have a greater dollar per student expenditure rate than their rural and even suburban counterparts. I know Minneapolis-St. Paul is like that and their schools have among the widest white-black achievement gaps in the entire country. But yeah, certainly this is a problem in some cities.

And the thing about those Arkansas rednecks is that they don't grow up to kill each other. Sure they do some stupid ass stuff, DUIs, maybe some meth labs etc etc. But they don't KILL EACH OTHER

 

[xpanther206]

This thread has gotten THICK, it's tough to give every poster the time they deserve.

One thing that I am 100% certain of is that white america has not caused black on black violence. There are simply too many examples both domestically and internationally of people living in concentrated poverty who are capable of not blowing themselves away.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Aint like he lyin. Coming from a black person, its been time to stop blaming the white man years ago. These days, u have white people who are more willing to help us than we are to help ourselves...and thats sad.

 

[JLMACN]

The difference is that most of the Amerindian slaves died and their northern descendants have casinos, land, community organization, and sovereignty. Their southern descendants have their own country (Mexico).. As far as a solution to the Mexican plight, that's of the concern of the Mexican leadership, you don't see armies of black people protesting immigration, who's beasting up on eses besides the government and racists?

lol

They (white man) took a whole Country (the one your on now I assume) from us (Mexican/Indians).

We better not see black people marching for people to "go back"! After all you all have had it worse than any other Race in the history of the world, right?

There is a reason why Dave Chappelle did that comic strip he did on "if black people suddenly took over"..

you ever see that?

"Cadillac is the #1 car maker..........We have just had 200,000 rap labels start up in the last 15 minutes.....etc"

funny? yes! but it is also true in a sense.
Black men and women are not percieved to be the hardest working individuals. That changed between the end of slavery and intergration. why? who knows. Im just speaking the semi-truth about how black individuals are percieved over here in my neck of the woods. you want to build a house? get a poor mexican. you want to dig a hole in the ground? get a poor mexican. you want to sell some crack? get a black dude.

In general black people are some of the laziest individuals in america.

5000

 

[HERESY]

This thread has gotten THICK, it's tough to give every poster the time they deserve.

One thing that I am 100% certain of is that white america has not caused black on black violence. There are simply too many examples both domestically and internationally of people living in concentrated poverty who are capable of not blowing themselves away.

How are you so certain? Are they capable of not blowing themselves up because they don't have the firearms to do so? Are they capable of not blowing themselves up because their areas are not saturated with drug deals? Have their countries and communities been affected by different forms of stratification? Have their countries had any american or european "influence"? By "influence" I mean have they been occupied by "whites" or have they received money from the World Bank etc?

 

[HERESY]

Whats with the "Most of the [white] members on this board" rubbish. It appears to be some delusive trickery to me. How can anyone on this board speak for the majority when half of the so-called "unanswered" questions have yet to be asked.

If you aren't a guilty party you shouldn't allow the statement to rub you the wrong way. However, I am speaking from my experience with people on this board, from reading the posts of members on the board. Is there something in specific you would like to address?

What are the unanswered questions? Time and time again when threads like this pop up, people are asked questions and they FAIL to answer the questions, come with the "just get over it" crap, attempt to turn teh oppressor into the oppressed and exhibit subtle to not so subtle characteristics of being a blind-racist.

Rather than babble on about how whites won't address this issue or how they won't answer that question, how about you actually engage in these conversations.

I have engaged in these issues, and I've engaged in these issues online AND offline. Now the question to you is how have YOU engaged in these issues? I can list you sources, numbers to call etc so you can confirm that I am active in what I am doing. Can you do the same? Can you tell us of any actions you have done relating to race relations and repair?

What concerns me is this: It has been said that whites should press the issue for equality and reparations, etc. But how can anyone expect a white man/woman to do this when the "blacks" around them are making no such effort themselves.

Who says the "blacks" around them aren't making no such effort? See, you started your post off trying to jump down someones throat for what you perceive to be generalizations, but here it is you are clumping a group of people together and NOT being specific. How do YOU know what black people around white people are doing?

Sooner or later people are going to have to distinguish between what should be and what IS. Years ago in this forum I said that every black person must take it upon him/herself to better their own lives and the lives of their children. Never did I say this is the way things should be, but with respect to what we can expect from those in power, this is the way it is going to be for a very long time.

Here we go again with the same argument except mine is going to be amplified. Gotta run.