9/11
- Thread starter Thizzapher
- Start date
CNI...I can agree that we both stand where we stand and there is nothing we can do to change each others views on this.
I do have a question though. What about my take on the swine flu? That is very real. My brother had the swine flu, and I will tell you...I'm not trying to get that shit. While it was milder than the seasonal flu, it survived through the summer (which the seasonal flu does not)...which means it is very POSSIBLE that the shit will be more intense during the season that the flu is the strongest. I don't see how I have a skewed vision on something that has happened to a member of my family...and about 3 of his coworkers.
About the JFK thing, I agree that it can be debated either way, and both sides will raise valid points. Do I believe Oswald was a lone gunman? NO, I don't. But, I do know this fact...and Dr. Michael Baden (Forensic Pathologist) even confirmed it. When a bullet hits a person's head, it does not matter which way the bullet was flying. Some people get shot in the front, and their heads go forward, some people get shot in the back of their head, and their heads go backward. Sometimes it goes the opposite way. Point is, JFK could have been shot from the back, and his head still could have gone backwards. That, my dude, is a scientific fact that cannot be contested...because it has happened both ways. REGARDLESS OF THAT FACT, I do agree there was more to the JFK assassination.
Dr. BADEN - This is a drawing made from photographs taken at the time of the autopsy showing the back of the President's head and showing a ruler adjacent to an area of discoloration in the cowlick area of the back of the head of the scalp, which the panel determined was an entrance perforation, an entrance bullet perforation; this also shows portions of fractures of the skull of the President caused by this gunshot wound and a fragment of dried tissue near the hairline of the President.
Mr. KLEIN - Doctor, does this drawing fairly and accurately represent the location of the wound in the back of the President's head?
Dr. BADEN - Yes, it does, in the unanimous opinion of all of the panel members.
Also...
Dr. BADEN - The panel learned from these X-rays that there was extensive fracturing of the bones of the skull of the President as manifested by these various lines and irregularities, that there was displacement of some bony fragments as a result of this explosive type injury to the skull as seen on the X-ray, and that there are many small white areas in the X-ray film that are metallic fragments resulting from a bullet having passed through the skull and fragmenting to some small degree.
Mr. KLEIN - Are those X-rays consistent with a bullet having entered the President's head high on top of the head and passed through?
Dr. BADEN - Yes sir. This is clearly demonstrated in these X-rays, and as comparison, the X-ray on the extreme left is an X-ray taken of President Kennedy during life showing the normal appearance of the skull with the various skull bones in their normal appearance and illustrates the extensive damage of the skull present at the time of the autopsy. The panel concluded, and all of theradiologist consultants with whom the panel spoke with and met with, all concluded that without question there is an entrance bullet hole on the upper portion of the skull at the area I am pointing to where the bone itself has been displaced, and that this corresponds precisely with the point in the cowlick area on the overlying skin has the appearance of an entrance wound, that the track of the bullet then proceeded from back to front and toward the right causing extensive damage to the head.
Taken from the transcripts that I have also seen video on...where he testified in the 1970's on the matter.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscabadn.htm
I do have a question though. What about my take on the swine flu? That is very real. My brother had the swine flu, and I will tell you...I'm not trying to get that shit. While it was milder than the seasonal flu, it survived through the summer (which the seasonal flu does not)...which means it is very POSSIBLE that the shit will be more intense during the season that the flu is the strongest. I don't see how I have a skewed vision on something that has happened to a member of my family...and about 3 of his coworkers.
About the JFK thing, I agree that it can be debated either way, and both sides will raise valid points. Do I believe Oswald was a lone gunman? NO, I don't. But, I do know this fact...and Dr. Michael Baden (Forensic Pathologist) even confirmed it. When a bullet hits a person's head, it does not matter which way the bullet was flying. Some people get shot in the front, and their heads go forward, some people get shot in the back of their head, and their heads go backward. Sometimes it goes the opposite way. Point is, JFK could have been shot from the back, and his head still could have gone backwards. That, my dude, is a scientific fact that cannot be contested...because it has happened both ways. REGARDLESS OF THAT FACT, I do agree there was more to the JFK assassination.
Dr. BADEN - This is a drawing made from photographs taken at the time of the autopsy showing the back of the President's head and showing a ruler adjacent to an area of discoloration in the cowlick area of the back of the head of the scalp, which the panel determined was an entrance perforation, an entrance bullet perforation; this also shows portions of fractures of the skull of the President caused by this gunshot wound and a fragment of dried tissue near the hairline of the President.
Mr. KLEIN - Doctor, does this drawing fairly and accurately represent the location of the wound in the back of the President's head?
Dr. BADEN - Yes, it does, in the unanimous opinion of all of the panel members.
Also...
Dr. BADEN - The panel learned from these X-rays that there was extensive fracturing of the bones of the skull of the President as manifested by these various lines and irregularities, that there was displacement of some bony fragments as a result of this explosive type injury to the skull as seen on the X-ray, and that there are many small white areas in the X-ray film that are metallic fragments resulting from a bullet having passed through the skull and fragmenting to some small degree.
Mr. KLEIN - Are those X-rays consistent with a bullet having entered the President's head high on top of the head and passed through?
Dr. BADEN - Yes sir. This is clearly demonstrated in these X-rays, and as comparison, the X-ray on the extreme left is an X-ray taken of President Kennedy during life showing the normal appearance of the skull with the various skull bones in their normal appearance and illustrates the extensive damage of the skull present at the time of the autopsy. The panel concluded, and all of theradiologist consultants with whom the panel spoke with and met with, all concluded that without question there is an entrance bullet hole on the upper portion of the skull at the area I am pointing to where the bone itself has been displaced, and that this corresponds precisely with the point in the cowlick area on the overlying skin has the appearance of an entrance wound, that the track of the bullet then proceeded from back to front and toward the right causing extensive damage to the head.
Taken from the transcripts that I have also seen video on...where he testified in the 1970's on the matter.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscabadn.htm
Sydal - I know your bro got swine flu. Glad to hear it seems he got over it. Good shit if so.
If you remember in that thread, I am highly against the vaccine they are trying to push for this shit. There are far better, more natural ways other than a vaccine that the manufacturers have been given full immunity for the after effects. Remember, more people were killed due to the vaccine than due to the flu in the `76. But the government hyped that.
Like I said on JFK, they have gone out of their way to try to sell the public that it was Oswald all by himself. Until they release ALL of the information and quit sealing it, that, to me, is proof enough they have something to hide.
If they have something to hide over JFK, have lied to us repeatedly over Iraq and Afghanistan, they very well could be doing the same over 9/11 for that matter. So far, our own government has a track record for lies and deceit, and it`s the American people to suffer in the end.
If you`re satisfied with the answers you`ve gotten by your research, you have nothing to worry about. Like I said though, for me, I am far from it. I don`t believe that it`s any coincidence that what was drafted by PNAC happened 9 months after Bush took office. I feel the same about the aftermath of 9/11 on the American public in the forms of the Patriot Act, and many other bills and exec orders since. In the end, we all lose, regardless of our viewpoints. That`s the one main fact that can not be argued. As a people, we have allowed our government far too many powers and have allowed our Constitution to be belittled down to nothing more than a piece of paper.
That is something I`m not ok with, not for either of us, nor our children. I gave myself for my country, to honor and uphold our Constitution, against all enemies, foreign AND domestic. And that my friend, is what I`m ready and willing to do by any means necessary.
If you remember in that thread, I am highly against the vaccine they are trying to push for this shit. There are far better, more natural ways other than a vaccine that the manufacturers have been given full immunity for the after effects. Remember, more people were killed due to the vaccine than due to the flu in the `76. But the government hyped that.
Like I said on JFK, they have gone out of their way to try to sell the public that it was Oswald all by himself. Until they release ALL of the information and quit sealing it, that, to me, is proof enough they have something to hide.
If they have something to hide over JFK, have lied to us repeatedly over Iraq and Afghanistan, they very well could be doing the same over 9/11 for that matter. So far, our own government has a track record for lies and deceit, and it`s the American people to suffer in the end.
If you`re satisfied with the answers you`ve gotten by your research, you have nothing to worry about. Like I said though, for me, I am far from it. I don`t believe that it`s any coincidence that what was drafted by PNAC happened 9 months after Bush took office. I feel the same about the aftermath of 9/11 on the American public in the forms of the Patriot Act, and many other bills and exec orders since. In the end, we all lose, regardless of our viewpoints. That`s the one main fact that can not be argued. As a people, we have allowed our government far too many powers and have allowed our Constitution to be belittled down to nothing more than a piece of paper.
That is something I`m not ok with, not for either of us, nor our children. I gave myself for my country, to honor and uphold our Constitution, against all enemies, foreign AND domestic. And that my friend, is what I`m ready and willing to do by any means necessary.
And here is mine..for the THIRD time.
Abstract
We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.
You can download the FULL report here:
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM
Abstract
We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.
You can download the FULL report here:
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM
Even though I don't agree with you on the conspiracy theories the aftermath (if it was an inside job or not) is bull shit the patriot act gave the government way too much power and Bush did use all of the fear to start HIS war. I even wrote a research paper on the patriot act in high school (I think 2003) just so that I could learn more about everything that had happened.
I'm not satisfied with the government by any means...I know they are full of shit. In this case though, I'm good. Conspiracy theorists have changed their tune one too many times for me. When one theory doesn't work, they come up with another...it's just ridiculous to me. But I can respect your opinion and say that you're right that the government is a bunch of lying fucks.
Ok...so one. While everybody ran away from the towers, and were staying the fuck away from the towers, a Manhattan resident had the nuts (and the ability) to find little red and grey chips in piles of burning hot debris and clouds of dust thick enough to impair peoples vision blocks away from the crash site? Do you really believe that? Everybody is trying to calm down and collect themselves, and this ONE person, 10 minutes later, was looking through the rubble and found these "chips". Ok.
2nd, there was no molten metal at ground zero at any point in time. It was not spewing from the building, and there were no molten metal pools after the collapse. If that's an after effect of thermite, why was it not present?
3rd, Steven Jones embellished the shit out of his findings with his "scholars". The drywall at the WTC was 18.62% Sulfur. Iron is found in paint and electrical devices, Potassium in concrete, Manganese in structural steel, paint, batteries, ceramics. Flourine is found in Freon...and the WTC had the largest Air Conditioning system in the country (which used 200,000 lbs of Freon). Titanium is found in paper and paint, as well as the airplanes.
Alex Jones claims that these chemicals had no business being at the WTC unless thermite was used. WRONG! This is the man pumping this theory. What he DID NOT FIND @ the WTC site is Aluminum Oxide and Barium Nitrate. The USGS AND Steven Jones have not found any of this at the site, yet these two elements are unique to thermite (Aluminum Oxide 41% and Barium Nitrate 29%).
Jones' ONLY argument for that was there was Aluminum traces found. Of course there was...planes, and cars have aluminum. BUT, Aluminum and Aluminum Oxide are two completely different things.
Without THOSE TWO ELEMENTS, the thermite theory does not hold up. Sorry dude.
2nd, there was no molten metal at ground zero at any point in time. It was not spewing from the building, and there were no molten metal pools after the collapse. If that's an after effect of thermite, why was it not present?
3rd, Steven Jones embellished the shit out of his findings with his "scholars". The drywall at the WTC was 18.62% Sulfur. Iron is found in paint and electrical devices, Potassium in concrete, Manganese in structural steel, paint, batteries, ceramics. Flourine is found in Freon...and the WTC had the largest Air Conditioning system in the country (which used 200,000 lbs of Freon). Titanium is found in paper and paint, as well as the airplanes.
Alex Jones claims that these chemicals had no business being at the WTC unless thermite was used. WRONG! This is the man pumping this theory. What he DID NOT FIND @ the WTC site is Aluminum Oxide and Barium Nitrate. The USGS AND Steven Jones have not found any of this at the site, yet these two elements are unique to thermite (Aluminum Oxide 41% and Barium Nitrate 29%).
Jones' ONLY argument for that was there was Aluminum traces found. Of course there was...planes, and cars have aluminum. BUT, Aluminum and Aluminum Oxide are two completely different things.
Without THOSE TWO ELEMENTS, the thermite theory does not hold up. Sorry dude.
That guy has no argument whatsoever. Why didn't they hit the other side of the pentagon? Seriously? Did they know that side of the Pentagon was renovated? Because I live in this country, and I had no idea they renovated that side of the pentagon. They sure as fuck wouldn't come out and say on the news "The government only renovated one side of the pentagon to help against possible terror attacks..so if you want to attack it, hit the other fuckin' sides, dipshits". Really?
About the plane in Pennsylvania...a chick was outside and saw the thing crash. Not only that, but they have audio asking a PRIVATE JET to circle the area and tell what they see. They forgot to mention it was a private jet...they want people to think it was a fighter jet. On top of THAT, they found debris at a lake which is about 6-8 miles if you take the road. If you went straight through the woods, however, the spot was about a mile or mile and a half away from the crash site. The map is viewable online if you'd like to see it. There are also people out there that witnessed the shit that know the area pretty well.
Another thing about the pentagon is, if it was not the guy we are talking about that flew it into the pentagon, who did it? Was it an inside job? 'Cause if it was, ya know, they would have known the correct side of the pentagon to hit. I'm just saying.
And again, what about all the audio from the planes black boxes? What about the recorded phone calls? Just curious. Are those fake, too?
Another theory I hear a lot is "they found out who did it way too quickly. How could they possibly know that quickly?" They knew who hijacked the planes because the flight attendants had the seat numbers the hijackers were sitting in. As you know, when you book a flight, and they give you a seat, your name is tied to that seat on a passenger log. If I did something stupid on a plane, they would tell the ground, the ground would look up my seat number and know everything about me in minutes.
About the plane in Pennsylvania...a chick was outside and saw the thing crash. Not only that, but they have audio asking a PRIVATE JET to circle the area and tell what they see. They forgot to mention it was a private jet...they want people to think it was a fighter jet. On top of THAT, they found debris at a lake which is about 6-8 miles if you take the road. If you went straight through the woods, however, the spot was about a mile or mile and a half away from the crash site. The map is viewable online if you'd like to see it. There are also people out there that witnessed the shit that know the area pretty well.
Another thing about the pentagon is, if it was not the guy we are talking about that flew it into the pentagon, who did it? Was it an inside job? 'Cause if it was, ya know, they would have known the correct side of the pentagon to hit. I'm just saying.
And again, what about all the audio from the planes black boxes? What about the recorded phone calls? Just curious. Are those fake, too?
Another theory I hear a lot is "they found out who did it way too quickly. How could they possibly know that quickly?" They knew who hijacked the planes because the flight attendants had the seat numbers the hijackers were sitting in. As you know, when you book a flight, and they give you a seat, your name is tied to that seat on a passenger log. If I did something stupid on a plane, they would tell the ground, the ground would look up my seat number and know everything about me in minutes.
but who is who to be proving anything? all in all i question all the terrible actions that took place on that whole damned day.
but i see what your saying, it just looks shody when your constantly switching your satnce. no stability to your arguement which will deter the ones you are trying to attain for support
but i see what your saying, it just looks shody when your constantly switching your satnce. no stability to your arguement which will deter the ones you are trying to attain for support
I agree. But personally, I kind of take offense when somebody says this was an inside job and has absolutely no ground to stand on with that claim. Nobody has even answered my question. When did they go in and knock walls down to plant thermite? And when did they put the new walls up? And how did they do all that without people noticing?
It's actually kind of insulting. And it's insulting to say that the United States Government (no matter HOW shady) would kill thousands of people on American soil. I don't agree with the aftermath of 9/11, I really don't...but I believe it to be merely an opportunity for the gov't to then step in and do whatever they wanted. Is it tasteless to try to capitalize off of grief? Yes. Do I believe they tried to? Yes. Do I believe they caused the grief? Absolutely not.
The evidence pointing towards terrorism is abundant...the evidence pointing towards the government is forever changing and about as solid as piss.
But from this point on I'm done. I'm not going to remember the people that lost their lives every year by arguing about this shit. I'll let everybody else argue, and just sit back and laugh.
It's actually kind of insulting. And it's insulting to say that the United States Government (no matter HOW shady) would kill thousands of people on American soil. I don't agree with the aftermath of 9/11, I really don't...but I believe it to be merely an opportunity for the gov't to then step in and do whatever they wanted. Is it tasteless to try to capitalize off of grief? Yes. Do I believe they tried to? Yes. Do I believe they caused the grief? Absolutely not.
The evidence pointing towards terrorism is abundant...the evidence pointing towards the government is forever changing and about as solid as piss.
But from this point on I'm done. I'm not going to remember the people that lost their lives every year by arguing about this shit. I'll let everybody else argue, and just sit back and laugh.
i feel you but it seems likethe government gives a fuck about its citizens. there is no money to be made caring and being nice. the government is supposed to be by the people. since when are the people rich as fuck and dont have to worry about normal everyday shit? this is the new england
health care. a whole new issue but damn, it brings the racist and hypocrisy out in this country. health care should be universal. PEOPLE. what the fuck?! but we got rich white folks saying "i dont want to pay for other peoples health"
wtf kind of shit is that? looking at lower society as pets basically. fucked up thing is they will donate to sarah mclachlan but wont spare change or at least buy a bum a sandwhich..what part of the game is this?
health care. a whole new issue but damn, it brings the racist and hypocrisy out in this country. health care should be universal. PEOPLE. what the fuck?! but we got rich white folks saying "i dont want to pay for other peoples health"
wtf kind of shit is that? looking at lower society as pets basically. fucked up thing is they will donate to sarah mclachlan but wont spare change or at least buy a bum a sandwhich..what part of the game is this?
There was dust EVERYWHERE after everything had "settled". You could have scooped it up a month AFTER everything had happened.
Huh? The heat resonating from ground zero was SO hot, it could be seen from a satellite from SPACE as a hot spot on EARTH a WEEK after it happened. Not sure what you are saying here.
Im not a scientist, so i don't know any of this shit. You could be right or you could be wrong. I have no clue.
Alex Jones is a fuckin faggot. I don't give a shit what that dickweed has to say.
Don't apologize to me...those were findings by scientists, so you're query is with THEM, not ME. If you're going to refute science, be my guest. I don't care either way.
As I have started before, this will NEVER be solved, and for so many reasons. There is so much fishy shit, its, scary.
You believe everything was legit, that's fine. I don't. I am a skeptic, always have been. There are those of the scientific community who are also unsure about everything, so I don't know what to tell you. Are they tinfoilers too? Maybe, but you can NOT fuck up science, it either is or isn't. With that being the case, why aren't all scientists around the world on the exact same page? Thats all i can say, nothing more.
There are plenty of questions that can NOT be answered by science, only those involved.
Huh? The heat resonating from ground zero was SO hot, it could be seen from a satellite from SPACE as a hot spot on EARTH a WEEK after it happened. Not sure what you are saying here.
Im not a scientist, so i don't know any of this shit. You could be right or you could be wrong. I have no clue.
Alex Jones is a fuckin faggot. I don't give a shit what that dickweed has to say.
Don't apologize to me...those were findings by scientists, so you're query is with THEM, not ME. If you're going to refute science, be my guest. I don't care either way.
As I have started before, this will NEVER be solved, and for so many reasons. There is so much fishy shit, its, scary.
You believe everything was legit, that's fine. I don't. I am a skeptic, always have been. There are those of the scientific community who are also unsure about everything, so I don't know what to tell you. Are they tinfoilers too? Maybe, but you can NOT fuck up science, it either is or isn't. With that being the case, why aren't all scientists around the world on the exact same page? Thats all i can say, nothing more.
There are plenty of questions that can NOT be answered by science, only those involved.
