damn no monte ellis?!?!?!

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MrPeete

MrPeete

Sicc OG
#81
May 10, 2002
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#81
3VID3NC3 said:
Whats your point. Baron Davis came to a shitty W's team and was a vocal leader on and off the court from the start. Coming to the W's didn't hurt his leadership qualities at all, he was a natural born leader from the start and also much more clutch than Monta. His problem was/is staying focused on basketball consistantly.
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There are too many variables at work that we don't know anything about to factor in when it comes to trying to quantify "leadership". So I'll let B-Roy have that one.

How do you quantify clutch though? Are you going off of success/failure rate in "clutch situations"? How can Monta be clutch when the opportunities go to other players who have more experience (like they should). It's not Monta's fault that Don Nelson would call plays in "clutch" situations for BD and not the 2nd/3rd year guy out of highschool.

This is the type of shit I'm talking about with cats just pulling phrases out of their asses and not explaining what they think that shit means.

3VID3NC3 said:
Im not saying Roy is a better passer strictly based on TO ratio..I was just using it to support my arguement. Monta only average .6 more assists than Roy, wow.
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When you don't use anything else to support your argument, that's all we have to go on. TOs can be anything from bad passes to offensive fouls.

Monta still averages more assists than Roy.


3VID3NC3 said:
Well he's got a size and strength advantage which makes him more versatile.
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Versatile? Meaning what? I don't think you know what you mean by that.

3VID3NC3 said:
LOL who cares. Point is Roy's clutch/brain dead play ratio is much better than Monta's when the game is on the line.
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These are the blanket statements that make me think you have no idea what you're talking about. Mufuckas just say anything without having the data to back it up

3VID3NC3 said:
Watch more games...
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:cheeky: Trust me, I watch MORE than my fair share. It's my job to know basketball and watch games yo
 
MrPeete

MrPeete

Sicc OG
#84
May 10, 2002
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#84
Skizzy Ske said:
And if I do explain why Roy is the better player... Ur gonna break it down post by post. Sayin this n that. I'm wrong ur right. Disagree everything. Which is fine wit me but I don't really give a fuck. Nor do i care to explain why cuz at the end of the day, ur STILL gonna say monta is better.

U stand to believe monta is better. Good shit. Do u. Not knocking u whatsoever.

We all entitled to our own opinion. And no one is gonna change that.
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Do your thang though. Don't be afraid to say what you feel. This isn't MY thread, lol

If I agree, I'll say that I agree (not that it should matter to you). It's just that most of these cats aren't objective when it comes to comparing players. They good at acting like they know what they're talking about but when you start to press them a little bit, they prove that they don't
 
MrPeete

MrPeete

Sicc OG
#85
May 10, 2002
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#85
3VID3NC3 said:
I cant argue that Monta gets fucked by the refs alot but I dont see how that determines if someone is clutch or not.
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What I meant by that is that the casual fan gets more access to B Roy's exploits because the league has been pushing him since his rookie season. You may not feel that Monta is clutch, because you hardly get to see him do his thing because there's no push behind him. But that gets into a different level of discussion that most cats in this thread aren't ready for, so I'll leave it at that...

Actually, if you want to see Monta show some clutchness, go watch the 4th quarter of a game against (how ironic) Portland last year. Not sure of the date, but it was in Oakland and it was one of Monta's first few games back. Probably on youtube..

Edit - Clutch doesn't just mean buzzer beater either
 
3VID3NC3

3VID3NC3

Sicc OG
#87
Apr 25, 2002
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#87
MrPeete said:
How do you quantify clutch though? Are you going off of success/failure rate in "clutch situations"? How can Monta be clutch when the opportunities go to other players who have more experience (like they should). It's not Monta's fault that Don Nelson would call plays in "clutch" situations for BD and not the 2nd/3rd year guy out of highschool.
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Baron had TONS of clutch shots as a Warrior. Far more than Monta has had. BD is not on the team anymore, there aren't many players on the team with more experience than Monta right now...like I said Ive seen just as many brain dead plays as clutch plays if not more this season...Im not gonna sit here and break down every idividual dumb play he has made when the game is on the line but I know I have seen it enough to know he doesn't have the same clutch factor of a Baron Davis or Brandon Roy.





MrPeete said:
Versatile? Meaning what? I don't think you know what you mean by that.
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Versatile as in he has the size and strength to match up better against players of similar size and strength but has the quickness to still guard smaller players aswell. Monta can get by guarding players up to 6'6 but any more than that is a big size disadvantage.

MrPeete said:
These are the blanket statements that make me think you have no idea what you're talking about. Mufuckas just say anything without having the data to back it up
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These are the dumbass statements that make me think you dont watch any basketball. basketball isn't all about stats...you need to watch the games and understand what is going on. You are lost.

MrPeete said:
:cheeky: Trust me, I watch MORE than my fair share. It's my job to know basketball and watch games yo
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I suggest you find a new hobby:cheeky:
 
MrPeete

MrPeete

Sicc OG
#88
May 10, 2002
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#88
3VID3NC3 said:
Baron had TONS of clutch shots as a Warrior. Far more than Monta has had. BD is not on the team anymore, there aren't many players on the team with more experience than Monta right now...like I said Ive seen just as many brain dead plays as clutch plays if not more this season...Im not gonna sit here and break down every idividual dumb play he has made when the game is on the line but I know I have seen it enough to know he doesn't have the same clutch factor of a Baron Davis or Brandon Roy.
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See my previous point.

As far as clutch this year ... lol ... There haven't been that many opportunities. This is his first full year of being "THE guy" so you have to expect that shit isn't going to happen overnight.

When you make statements that require data to back them up and you don't provide the data to back them up, then your argument means nothing, and so goes your credibility. Stick to talking about what you can prove :lick:

3VID3NC3 said:
Versatile as in he has the size and strength to match up better against players of similar size and strength. Monta can get by guarding players up to 6'6 but any more than that is a big size disadvantage.
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Danny Granger might disagree with you there :cheeky:

3VID3NC3 said:
These are the dumbass statements that make me think you dont watch any basketball. basketball isn't all about stats...you need to watch the games and understand what is going on. You are lost.
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Sure buddy ... Way to tap out

3VID3NC3 said:
I suggest you find a new hobby:cheeky:
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Not a hobby
 
3VID3NC3

3VID3NC3

Sicc OG
#90
Apr 25, 2002
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#90
MrPeete said:
See my previous point.



When you make statements that require data to back them up and you don't provide the data to back them up, then your argument means nothing, and so goes your credibility. Stick to talking about what you can prove :lick:
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Im not sure what kinda data you want. Im just expressing my opinion based on what I see from watching the games. It would be much easier to break down what im not talking about if we could go back and look at film and I could point specfic things out but we cant and its hard to remember every little situation and type it out on here. Its all good..you got your opinion and I got mine. I dont even think Roy is THAT much better in alot of areas but the little things add up and thats why I like him better. Nothing against Monta, he's having a great year..unfortunetly it hasn't produced alot of wins.
 
3VID3NC3

3VID3NC3

Sicc OG
#91
Apr 25, 2002
3,020
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#91
MrPeete said:
See my previous point.

As far as clutch this year ... lol ... There haven't been that many opportunities
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W's have been in plenty of close games this year where 1 or 2 better possessions could've changed the outcome. Like you said, being clutch isn't all about hitting buzzer beaters.

In fairness to Monta though, he is playing heavy minutes so it is more difficult to maintain great plays down the stretch. Then again Baron was playing heavy mintues too and that didn't stop him. I guess we'll have to see how he does with more talent around him.
 
CZAR

CZAR

Sicc OG
#92
Aug 25, 2003
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#92
Yo Peete man well just agree to disagree. Neither one of us is gonna change the others mind. The only thing though is I aint biased toward neither as I could careless about both so I think my take on the discussion is more neutral. Its good though, they both can ball out but I would rather have Roy if I had to choose one! Got Em!!
 
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