COMMUNISUM!?!?!? FOR IT OR AGAINST IT AND WHY?
- Thread starter proppa
- Start date
We can control what everyone takes from the table.
With Capitalism for instance, you have this table with enough food to feed a family of 10.
(I know that's a lot, but it's a Mexican family).... Lame joke haha!
There's enough food for everyone but big brother is a greedy muthafucka, just about everyone gets an equal share but the 2 youngest ones in the family barely have any food to get by on.
Because big brother took more than he should.
But if you use my suggestion then just about everyone will get an equal ammount. Dad might get a bit more cuz he works harder and is hungrier, but his extra plate won't starve anyone else in the family.
Capitalism is for the rich. It is their system, it is how they stay rich. That is why the people with power (money) fear Communism like the plague....
Somethin like that....
With Capitalism for instance, you have this table with enough food to feed a family of 10.
(I know that's a lot, but it's a Mexican family).... Lame joke haha!
There's enough food for everyone but big brother is a greedy muthafucka, just about everyone gets an equal share but the 2 youngest ones in the family barely have any food to get by on.
Because big brother took more than he should.
But if you use my suggestion then just about everyone will get an equal ammount. Dad might get a bit more cuz he works harder and is hungrier, but his extra plate won't starve anyone else in the family.
Capitalism is for the rich. It is their system, it is how they stay rich. That is why the people with power (money) fear Communism like the plague....
Somethin like that....
That's just the thing. There can't be full employment. It's a physical impossibility. For one reason or another, many people are unable to work.
And you say the innovations will keep coming in Communism?
Who innovates and advances technology? Physicists? Theoretical Scientists? No. Albert Einstein? Quantum Mathematicians? No.
While, yes, some of Einstein's theories do have practical applications, the majority of technological innovations come from Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, the US military, etc. Large private companies with monetary interests.
And who are the people who make the inventions? Smart people. Yes, I don't give a fuck what you say about different intelligences, the inaccuracy of IQ tests, bla bla. There are smart people and there are not-so-smart people, regardless of how many spectrums it is measured in.
Why do smart people invent things? Often as a purely intellectual gesture, but 90 percent of the time they work for money. They work for alot more money than the average person at their company. Now, if you give Toothy McCrackhead the same wage of Omar Colbstein the nuclear physicist, what incentive does he have to go through 12 years of school? Intellectual curiosity?
We reward the intelligent, those with new ideas, those with business savvy. That is the whole point of capitalism. I don't care if you're crippled, black, gay, and from the hood, you can still make it in America. You might face worse odds out the bumfuck in Kansas than say New York or California, but the point is you can still make it.
A study of race, class, and equality, worldwide shows America to be the easiest place to transcend race or place of birth, regardless of what people tell you.
It's this simple:
Assuming you have absolutely no money:
1. Complete High School
2. Apply for grants and loans, some of which are given simply by virtue of race.
3. Apply for student loans, especially if you did not get any grants.
4. Complete college.
5. Get job.
There's no double dealing or backwards math in the equation. It's that simple. Half the folks I deal with who talk about how they so disadvantaged and can't get nowhere don't wanna spend the time going to school, or did not complete the school they were in.
And you say the innovations will keep coming in Communism?
Who innovates and advances technology? Physicists? Theoretical Scientists? No. Albert Einstein? Quantum Mathematicians? No.
While, yes, some of Einstein's theories do have practical applications, the majority of technological innovations come from Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, the US military, etc. Large private companies with monetary interests.
And who are the people who make the inventions? Smart people. Yes, I don't give a fuck what you say about different intelligences, the inaccuracy of IQ tests, bla bla. There are smart people and there are not-so-smart people, regardless of how many spectrums it is measured in.
Why do smart people invent things? Often as a purely intellectual gesture, but 90 percent of the time they work for money. They work for alot more money than the average person at their company. Now, if you give Toothy McCrackhead the same wage of Omar Colbstein the nuclear physicist, what incentive does he have to go through 12 years of school? Intellectual curiosity?
We reward the intelligent, those with new ideas, those with business savvy. That is the whole point of capitalism. I don't care if you're crippled, black, gay, and from the hood, you can still make it in America. You might face worse odds out the bumfuck in Kansas than say New York or California, but the point is you can still make it.
A study of race, class, and equality, worldwide shows America to be the easiest place to transcend race or place of birth, regardless of what people tell you.
It's this simple:
Assuming you have absolutely no money:
1. Complete High School
2. Apply for grants and loans, some of which are given simply by virtue of race.
3. Apply for student loans, especially if you did not get any grants.
4. Complete college.
5. Get job.
There's no double dealing or backwards math in the equation. It's that simple. Half the folks I deal with who talk about how they so disadvantaged and can't get nowhere don't wanna spend the time going to school, or did not complete the school they were in.
people are dived by class? really since when.
i guess only certain familyes can make money and keep money.
no one ever ever moves up.
labron james grew up so wealthy i mean his family had a shit load of money.
WRONG
colen powell was like the son of bill gates. he was the richest kid ever and grew up in a great part of town.
WRONG
so shut the fuck up. get off your ass. and move up in the fucking world.
those that starve should be more hungry. meaning you got nothing then your gonna crave and work for something.
i got nothing right now. 10 years from now im gonna have more then the average person. and the people 10 years from now that still dont got shit. its either because there a hoe/stuck they dick up in to many women and have about 8 kids. there stupid for that and deserve to have nothing. or they are lazy as fuck complain all the time and dont do shit but watch tv and feel sorry for them selves. and that goes for all fucking races.
fuck yea im greedy. i want a bently i want a mantion. i want my own private jet. and guess what. IM GOING TO WORK FOR THAT SHIT.
STOP HATING ON THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE MADE IT. STOP HATING ON THE PEOPLE WITH WORK ETHIC AND AMBITION. STOP HATING ON THE PEOPLE THAT MAKE THIS WORLD GO ROUND.
TO THE THE LOSSERS WHO WILL DO NOTHING WITH YOUR LIFE. I DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOU OR YOUR FAMILY. HANDLE YOUR BUSSNESS AND STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MINE.
i guess only certain familyes can make money and keep money.
no one ever ever moves up.
labron james grew up so wealthy i mean his family had a shit load of money.
WRONG
colen powell was like the son of bill gates. he was the richest kid ever and grew up in a great part of town.
WRONG
so shut the fuck up. get off your ass. and move up in the fucking world.
those that starve should be more hungry. meaning you got nothing then your gonna crave and work for something.
i got nothing right now. 10 years from now im gonna have more then the average person. and the people 10 years from now that still dont got shit. its either because there a hoe/stuck they dick up in to many women and have about 8 kids. there stupid for that and deserve to have nothing. or they are lazy as fuck complain all the time and dont do shit but watch tv and feel sorry for them selves. and that goes for all fucking races.
fuck yea im greedy. i want a bently i want a mantion. i want my own private jet. and guess what. IM GOING TO WORK FOR THAT SHIT.
STOP HATING ON THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE MADE IT. STOP HATING ON THE PEOPLE WITH WORK ETHIC AND AMBITION. STOP HATING ON THE PEOPLE THAT MAKE THIS WORLD GO ROUND.
TO THE THE LOSSERS WHO WILL DO NOTHING WITH YOUR LIFE. I DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOU OR YOUR FAMILY. HANDLE YOUR BUSSNESS AND STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MINE.
Hey Proppa, you work your ass off for the next ten years and lets see where your at, ok? Damn, don't even bring up Labron James. What's the chances of that shit happening? 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%
You make it sound hella easy to move up in the world as if all one needs to do is go get it. Sorry but numbers don't lie. The chances of a human born poor becoming rich is next to nothing.
You make it sound hella easy to move up in the world as if all one needs to do is go get it. Sorry but numbers don't lie. The chances of a human born poor becoming rich is next to nothing.
really sicx.
its that hard?
my moms side of the family were all broke as fuck.
her her 5 sisters and 1 brother all have at least 4 bedroom houses 2 cars and will retire before 60.
they live very comfertably. went from having to share a 1 bedroom apartment and never having anything at all. not even a car to share. all hand me downs. barley even being able to afford to eat.
they went from that, to were they are now. every single one of them
you wanna know why??????????????????? they were raised right. and they had ambition and motivation. there motivation was to see there kids have a better life then they did.
and guess what????????????????????
it worked.
so dont give me the bull shit about if you work hard go to school apply your self actually look and aply for jobs your qualified for that you will still end up working at mc donalds.
because its just not true.
its that hard?
my moms side of the family were all broke as fuck.
her her 5 sisters and 1 brother all have at least 4 bedroom houses 2 cars and will retire before 60.
they live very comfertably. went from having to share a 1 bedroom apartment and never having anything at all. not even a car to share. all hand me downs. barley even being able to afford to eat.
they went from that, to were they are now. every single one of them
you wanna know why??????????????????? they were raised right. and they had ambition and motivation. there motivation was to see there kids have a better life then they did.
and guess what????????????????????
it worked.
so dont give me the bull shit about if you work hard go to school apply your self actually look and aply for jobs your qualified for that you will still end up working at mc donalds.
because its just not true.
and again for the 1,000 time
everyone is not equal, people never will be.
everyone is not as smart as each other.
some people are lazy and complain. some work there ass off and take on chalenges.
but in your society. the ones who dont do shit and dont have the work ethic and ambition that the others do would get the same amount of money. because you want to be "fair"
its not fair. some deserve a bigger % of the pie. some deserve to drive nicer cares and have nicer homes and be able to enjoy life.
some get there because there born into it. most get there because when there born or through there life they pick up on values that will put them there in the future.
everyone is not equal, people never will be.
everyone is not as smart as each other.
some people are lazy and complain. some work there ass off and take on chalenges.
but in your society. the ones who dont do shit and dont have the work ethic and ambition that the others do would get the same amount of money. because you want to be "fair"
its not fair. some deserve a bigger % of the pie. some deserve to drive nicer cares and have nicer homes and be able to enjoy life.
some get there because there born into it. most get there because when there born or through there life they pick up on values that will put them there in the future.
just a question....to become a communist society, doesnt someone *not necessarily the current gov't* have to install that system? that in itself seems to be a contradiction....b/c how does a person rise to power to install the communistic system when the system itself preaches equality on all aspects
just a question, im not saying im against it....ive agreed with everything Coldblooded has said
just a question, im not saying im against it....ive agreed with everything Coldblooded has said
There is a concept called the "Withering Away of the State".
I'll try and break it down for you from my knowledge of the subject. If i don't do it good enough you should read into it by checking out, Lenin's "State and Revolution", the communist manifesto, etc. Being that we all live in capitalistic societies it is hard for us to discuss/understand something as foreign as communism without a good deal of study. Also ask questions if it doesn't make sense, i just woke up so it might not be all that coherent. It is also a complicated subject. But this should also answer some of the questions other people brought up.
After "the revolution", where the workers take control of the means of production and attempt to eliminate class, government is formed to administer the transition and secure the gains of the revolution. (This is a main point where you will see a difference between a real communist society and the fake ones people like to list off in this country USSR, China, etc). This is a huge majority of the population of a given country which will have already organized itself democratically bringing control of the government to the majority from the hands of a minority. The only thing being installed is democracy. The majority bringing to power the system and people (themselves) it deems most fit.
Because this is a government which is now an instrument of the majority it does not need a heavy apparatus of full-time soldiers,police,guards,etc and certainly needs no heavy apparatus of repression (prison system, corrupt judicial system, etc) to defend the people from a small minority that may oppose it. Where as in Capitalism there is a minority in control and they need all of said jobs/institutions of repression to hold down the majority.
So already from its inception the state (the government and its institutions) has started to wither away.
Such a state which starts to wither away from its inception, begins to devolve more and more of the traditional state functions to self administrating bodies of citizens, to society in its totality. So there is no need for a dictator because the people are controlling their government much more democratically than ever before seen in capitalism, since so many like to call capitalism democracy.
This withering away of the state goes hand in hand with what i said before about the withering away of commodity production and of money, accompanying a general withering away of social classes and social stratification(of the division of society between administrators and administrated, between ‘bosses’ and ‘bossed over’ people, or the governors and the governed).
As the need for state withers away more and more control goes directly into the hands of the people and the state is eventually eliminated because it is no longer needed. True democracy goes hand in hand with true communism.
The state will be able to wither away completely when society adopts the rule: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", i.e., when people have become so accustomed to observing the fundamental rules of social intercourse and when their labor has become so productive that they will voluntarily work according to their ability. Capitalism, which compels one to calculate with the heartlessness of a Shylock whether one has not worked half an hour more than anybody else--this narrow horizon, will then be left behind. There will then be no need for society, in distributing the products, to regulate the quantity to be received by each; each will take freely "according to his needs". It will all Wither Away.
I'll try and break it down for you from my knowledge of the subject. If i don't do it good enough you should read into it by checking out, Lenin's "State and Revolution", the communist manifesto, etc. Being that we all live in capitalistic societies it is hard for us to discuss/understand something as foreign as communism without a good deal of study. Also ask questions if it doesn't make sense, i just woke up so it might not be all that coherent. It is also a complicated subject. But this should also answer some of the questions other people brought up.
After "the revolution", where the workers take control of the means of production and attempt to eliminate class, government is formed to administer the transition and secure the gains of the revolution. (This is a main point where you will see a difference between a real communist society and the fake ones people like to list off in this country USSR, China, etc). This is a huge majority of the population of a given country which will have already organized itself democratically bringing control of the government to the majority from the hands of a minority. The only thing being installed is democracy. The majority bringing to power the system and people (themselves) it deems most fit.
Because this is a government which is now an instrument of the majority it does not need a heavy apparatus of full-time soldiers,police,guards,etc and certainly needs no heavy apparatus of repression (prison system, corrupt judicial system, etc) to defend the people from a small minority that may oppose it. Where as in Capitalism there is a minority in control and they need all of said jobs/institutions of repression to hold down the majority.
So already from its inception the state (the government and its institutions) has started to wither away.
Such a state which starts to wither away from its inception, begins to devolve more and more of the traditional state functions to self administrating bodies of citizens, to society in its totality. So there is no need for a dictator because the people are controlling their government much more democratically than ever before seen in capitalism, since so many like to call capitalism democracy.
This withering away of the state goes hand in hand with what i said before about the withering away of commodity production and of money, accompanying a general withering away of social classes and social stratification(of the division of society between administrators and administrated, between ‘bosses’ and ‘bossed over’ people, or the governors and the governed).
As the need for state withers away more and more control goes directly into the hands of the people and the state is eventually eliminated because it is no longer needed. True democracy goes hand in hand with true communism.
The state will be able to wither away completely when society adopts the rule: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", i.e., when people have become so accustomed to observing the fundamental rules of social intercourse and when their labor has become so productive that they will voluntarily work according to their ability. Capitalism, which compels one to calculate with the heartlessness of a Shylock whether one has not worked half an hour more than anybody else--this narrow horizon, will then be left behind. There will then be no need for society, in distributing the products, to regulate the quantity to be received by each; each will take freely "according to his needs". It will all Wither Away.
ill have to re-read that...but what i gained from it made sense for the most part....
another point i noticed.... your point with incentive also comes into play, b/c that argument was made valid with the fact of many of the products made in russia were of relatively low grade
WHY IS THAT???
b/c the competition to do better for the chance of making more money is removed.....what about that?
another point i noticed.... your point with incentive also comes into play, b/c that argument was made valid with the fact of many of the products made in russia were of relatively low grade
WHY IS THAT???
b/c the competition to do better for the chance of making more money is removed.....what about that?
No special machine, no special apparatus of suppression, is needed for this: this will be done by the armed people themselves, as simply and as readily as any crowd of civilized people, even in modern society, interferes to put a stop to a scuffle or to prevent a woman from being assaulted. And, secondly, we know that the fundamental social cause of excesses, which consist in the violation of the rules of social intercourse, is the exploitation of the people, their want and their poverty. With the removal of this chief cause, excesses will inevitably begin to "wither away". And as it does, the state will wither away with it.
First you've gotta stop looking at the Soviet Union as an example of what communism is. IT WAS NOT A COMMUNIST COUNTRY! At best you could call what they had a form of State Socialism, many/most would call it State Capitalism.
Second, the low-grade products comment is very subjective. Many of the things made in the Soviet Union were of higher quality than products from other parts of the world.
Product quality and efficiency also comes with social consciousness. The more people become aware of the importance of what they produce and that product's importance to their survival and well being the more efficient they will be come at producing said item and the higher the quality it will be.
No one says you can't ever make more, you just can't make more than everyone else. And why would innovation be stifled, when every innovation would make life for everyone involved better? People need monetary incentives now because the alternative is being raped in the ass daily by a bunch of old white guys who control the majority of wealth in the world.