COMMUNISUM!?!?!? FOR IT OR AGAINST IT AND WHY?
- Thread starter proppa
- Start date
Communism in theory = great.
Communism in reality was just as bad as Facism. The USSR was the great communist experiment, and as you can see, they arent here anymore. (btw somethin interesting i learned in class the other day all the nations in E. Europe under the Iron Curtain were FOR military action in iraq).
Communism in reality was just as bad as Facism. The USSR was the great communist experiment, and as you can see, they arent here anymore. (btw somethin interesting i learned in class the other day all the nations in E. Europe under the Iron Curtain were FOR military action in iraq).
Yes it will work
maybe marxism won't work, obviously leninism didn't work, but communism, the system of communal production and collective consumption can and will work.
The only arguments I've heard otherwise are:
maybe marxism won't work, obviously leninism didn't work, but communism, the system of communal production and collective consumption can and will work.
The only arguments I've heard otherwise are:
- people are naturally greedy
Bullshit. maybe some people are naturally greedy, but only under a system like capitalism, which rewards greed in every aspect of life, would 99-fukking-% of the population do everything according solely to their own self-interest and without any regard for anyone else.
- communism takes away incentives
um.... false. Just because you're not getting stock options and a company car doesn't mean you're going to sit on your fukking ass all day and watch Jerry Springer. People need monetary incentives now because the alternative is being raped in the ass daily by a bunch of old white guys who control the majority of wealth in the world.
- look at the USSR
that's like saying "look at how fukked up mexico's government is, democracy must be a bad idea" - it just makes you look stupid.
^^what cold blooded said, i would have posted similar info had he not already touched on it, i feel that 99% of america is confused about communism because our government was against "communist", we were never against communist, we were using that as an excuse to rape resources, just like were using the iraq has nukes excuse to rape their resources.
The confusion about communism in america is about communism and socialism.
Communism obviously doesnt work. In order for a communist society to exist, there would have to be a worldwide rebellion by the lower class against the upper class.
Many aspects of communism work. In some cases, employees are hired to firms and earn salaries directly from percentages of sales. Socialism styles of health care like Canadas are also way more efficient than our health care.
But overall, society gives the government to much power. Its a scary place where the government controls the press, the drugs, the opinions of others. Any dissenting opinion in communism is crushed. The government also interferes with trade and supply and demand, and devotes most of its revenues to military, killing millions of people.
We can always talk about theory, but the bottom line is COMMUNISM DOESNT work! Numerous nations have tried the experiment and not one communist nation has came close to being as free and rich as the US.
Communism obviously doesnt work. In order for a communist society to exist, there would have to be a worldwide rebellion by the lower class against the upper class.
Many aspects of communism work. In some cases, employees are hired to firms and earn salaries directly from percentages of sales. Socialism styles of health care like Canadas are also way more efficient than our health care.
But overall, society gives the government to much power. Its a scary place where the government controls the press, the drugs, the opinions of others. Any dissenting opinion in communism is crushed. The government also interferes with trade and supply and demand, and devotes most of its revenues to military, killing millions of people.
We can always talk about theory, but the bottom line is COMMUNISM DOESNT work! Numerous nations have tried the experiment and not one communist nation has came close to being as free and rich as the US.
^^^^
Every time a Communist nation rises,
the US sticks their nose in the mix and cuts off trade with them and threatens anyone else who conducts business with them.
Thus Communist countries are struck down even before they get a chance to fly.
It is very appearant that the US shits in their pants when it comes to Communism. Why? Is it that dangerous?
Hmmmmm.... Is it because Communism spells an end to rich people? hahahaha....
Every time a Communist nation rises,
the US sticks their nose in the mix and cuts off trade with them and threatens anyone else who conducts business with them.
Thus Communist countries are struck down even before they get a chance to fly.
It is very appearant that the US shits in their pants when it comes to Communism. Why? Is it that dangerous?
Hmmmmm.... Is it because Communism spells an end to rich people? hahahaha....
ayight.
so someone that flips patty's and mc donalds should make the same as a brain surgen??????
a teacher should make the same money as someone bagging groceries.
thats comunism. ======= for all same houses same cars same money no matter then effort.
fuck that shit. you think white people are the only ones with money and power. get at labron james and see what he thinks about it. cause his pockets are pretty deep right now.
fuck the bull shit get off ya ass and make something of your self. either that or be happy being broke be happy being lazy and be happy flippin burgers at burger king.
dr. get there cause they work hard. not cause there white. some people just dont get it. skin color dosent =====money. working hard ======money.
communism ======== everyone getting paid the same regaurdless or education, work ethic or ambition.
so someone that flips patty's and mc donalds should make the same as a brain surgen??????
a teacher should make the same money as someone bagging groceries.
thats comunism. ======= for all same houses same cars same money no matter then effort.
fuck that shit. you think white people are the only ones with money and power. get at labron james and see what he thinks about it. cause his pockets are pretty deep right now.
fuck the bull shit get off ya ass and make something of your self. either that or be happy being broke be happy being lazy and be happy flippin burgers at burger king.
dr. get there cause they work hard. not cause there white. some people just dont get it. skin color dosent =====money. working hard ======money.
communism ======== everyone getting paid the same regaurdless or education, work ethic or ambition.
http://www.lrna.org/flash/otherworld.swf
^^^ Click it ^^^
education is free. you can pursue whatever career you want. look at Cuba. They have too many doctors than they can use, and they get paid less than bellhops and waiters. go figure.
What people in this thread are missing is a common misconception among Americans: Communism means helping the poor(you know, those lazy, uneducated welfare abusing drug addicts you see on TV) at the expense of the rest of society. That is incorrect; well, it's correct if you're referring to the relatively poor, which includes the lumpens, workers, lower middle class, middle class, and lower upper middle class. Your misconceptions about income distribution seem to make you assume that if tommorrow we said, "ok we'll divide up all the money in America among every citizen equally" you'd be poorer than you are now. In reality you'd probably be much better off.
ex:
If America had 100 citizens, and a total wealth of $100, it'd look like this:
1 man would have $40
4 would have about $5.50 (each)
5 would have $2.40
10 would have $1.20
40 would have $0.40
and the other 40 would have $.01
(source: http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/fa...&wealth.htm)
So 80% of the population have less than a dollar, and another 10% have a little over a dollar, while one asshole got $40 all to himself.
If we split it up equally, everyone has exactly $1.
80% of the population are better off!!!!!!!!
and another 10% are not noticeably worse off!
that's 90% of the population.
So dead that sh1t about "people want stuff. I want stuff." cuz unless you're in the upper 10% wealth bracket you're going to be better off than you are now. And if you're in the majority, the bottom 80%, you'll be astronomically better off.
Now I know what you're going to say, that sure we've got all this money now, but under communism the economy will stagnate and we'll turn into Cuba. Well let me try and break this down like this: Right now we work at least 40 hours a week, most people more than that thru either overtime or second jobs. But if we cut away all the useless industries in this country, all the pointless jobs and bureacracies, we could acheive the same standard of living by working about 15-20 hours a week by pooling our labor and employing the unemployed.
And why would innovation be stifled, when every innovation would make life for everyone involved better?
and save the lame ass responses, if you gonna bring it bring some heat.
could world capitalism work if truly applied? no. is the hybrid capitalism that we have now working? no.
i'd like to give world communism a shot before dismissing it.
^^^ Click it ^^^
education is free. you can pursue whatever career you want. look at Cuba. They have too many doctors than they can use, and they get paid less than bellhops and waiters. go figure.
What people in this thread are missing is a common misconception among Americans: Communism means helping the poor(you know, those lazy, uneducated welfare abusing drug addicts you see on TV) at the expense of the rest of society. That is incorrect; well, it's correct if you're referring to the relatively poor, which includes the lumpens, workers, lower middle class, middle class, and lower upper middle class. Your misconceptions about income distribution seem to make you assume that if tommorrow we said, "ok we'll divide up all the money in America among every citizen equally" you'd be poorer than you are now. In reality you'd probably be much better off.
ex:
If America had 100 citizens, and a total wealth of $100, it'd look like this:
1 man would have $40
4 would have about $5.50 (each)
5 would have $2.40
10 would have $1.20
40 would have $0.40
and the other 40 would have $.01
(source: http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/fa...&wealth.htm)
So 80% of the population have less than a dollar, and another 10% have a little over a dollar, while one asshole got $40 all to himself.
If we split it up equally, everyone has exactly $1.
80% of the population are better off!!!!!!!!
and another 10% are not noticeably worse off!
that's 90% of the population.
So dead that sh1t about "people want stuff. I want stuff." cuz unless you're in the upper 10% wealth bracket you're going to be better off than you are now. And if you're in the majority, the bottom 80%, you'll be astronomically better off.
Now I know what you're going to say, that sure we've got all this money now, but under communism the economy will stagnate and we'll turn into Cuba. Well let me try and break this down like this: Right now we work at least 40 hours a week, most people more than that thru either overtime or second jobs. But if we cut away all the useless industries in this country, all the pointless jobs and bureacracies, we could acheive the same standard of living by working about 15-20 hours a week by pooling our labor and employing the unemployed.
And why would innovation be stifled, when every innovation would make life for everyone involved better?
and save the lame ass responses, if you gonna bring it bring some heat.
could world capitalism work if truly applied? no. is the hybrid capitalism that we have now working? no.
i'd like to give world communism a shot before dismissing it.
The problem is that most of you are comparing Communism with the former Soviet Union. The thing is, there was NO democracy of any kind there. They were not a true Communist society. It was Stalinism, which was a regime where the economy was in the hands of the state, but the citizens had no way of participating in running it. This had nothing to do with Communism and in fact, in order to come to power Stalin had first to kill hundreds of thousands of socialist and communist militants, including most of the members of the central committee of the Bolshevik Party who organized the Russian Revolution in 1917. A true Communist society or Marxist society is based on the "ultimate democracy - workers' democracy" - democracy by and for the vast majority of people. As Leon Trotsky said, "socialism needs democracy like the human body needs oxygen."
There is a misconception here in America that we live in a Democracy...We don't! Sure, we can vote every now and then for our leaders, but look at who is in these elections. The Rich. Who finances their campaigns? Big corporations! So in reality you do not have a choice. It is only a democracy for the rich and powerful. In other words, a "bourgeois democracy."
@Coldblooded,
I love that example!
@T.C
"communism is a good idea, but it never works out......its not the government that is corrupt, its the people within it.....i think democracy is the way to go. it aint perfect but it never claims to be, therefore the is always room for improvement."
True Communism is a democracy...What we live in today is not.
@miggidy and Mr. ViNN707,
Your right. The U.S is a huge factor in the failures of many "communist" nations. Just read up on Latin America alone.
There is a misconception here in America that we live in a Democracy...We don't! Sure, we can vote every now and then for our leaders, but look at who is in these elections. The Rich. Who finances their campaigns? Big corporations! So in reality you do not have a choice. It is only a democracy for the rich and powerful. In other words, a "bourgeois democracy."
@Coldblooded,
I love that example!
@T.C
"communism is a good idea, but it never works out......its not the government that is corrupt, its the people within it.....i think democracy is the way to go. it aint perfect but it never claims to be, therefore the is always room for improvement."
True Communism is a democracy...What we live in today is not.
@miggidy and Mr. ViNN707,
Your right. The U.S is a huge factor in the failures of many "communist" nations. Just read up on Latin America alone.
Wrong Kryptic. Rebuilding Iraq is going to put the U.S. anywhere from 87 to 100 billion in the hole, with a 20 billion yearly price tag. This war made absolutely no fiscal sense whatsoever. Bush went back to the U.N. with his tail between his legs and a 10 gallon hat recently asking for donations. The Iraq effort will not afford the U.S. any money whatsoever, in fact it will likely compound our national debt.
And contrary to what some may think, Dubya has financial advisers who can tell him all this. From the start, it was never about money.
And contrary to what some may think, Dubya has financial advisers who can tell him all this. From the start, it was never about money.
They're also sub-par doctors, learning on sub-par equipment, in a sub-par economy (and the US has alot to do with this).
The problem is, if we split it all up equally, guess who leaves America? The CEOs, the stock brokers, big business interests, etc. America is as rich as it is because if 1. Its big business incentives and 2. its economic system.
Whole sections of the infrastructure will crumble under this "equal wealth distribution" system. You ever wonder why many people are bums? It's not just racism, classism, or poor opportunities. Many homeless people are mentally ill, lazy, etc. Not all of them, but many.
I live in San Francisco, a city that is extremely tolerant toward the homeless. They are offered/given:
1. Health care
2. Clothes for job interviews
3. Mailing addresses for job interviews
4. Food, SHelter, and Showers
Many refuse it. Many people do not want to be helped. Many simply refuse to live in shelters and return to the street to beg for change, mumble, and talk to the sidewalk. This is the sad reality of the world. There are resources in place, such as student loans, medicaire, medical, racial quota systems, systems in place to help minorities, AFDC, etc., that can offset the effects of poverty or the diminishing effects of racism. What remains is the final grasp by the receptor, and in many cases this is the weak link in the chain.
Hardly. Collapsing all corporate incentive and big business infrastructure will destroy the American economy. The top are not just the top because they are racist white men, or because they are an exclusive club. There is also such a thing as business savvy and education. In the US we have this notion that anyone can do anything. An actor can be a governor, a spoiled brat mamas boy can be a president, a person can use all the wealth, but in reality, there is more to the people at the top than just the "evil white man"ness they posess. There is also a reason they are there. Johnny the Bum would not exactly do well at the head of a marketing firm. The incentives the US govt. has always given to business are one of the main reasons our economy has so thrived.
It looks and sounds great, to make a big moneypile, like some raked leaves, that we can all jump in, but anyone who does care about their money, which is most of the people in the U.S., will jump ship, and head to Europe or some shit. We will have our people's revolution, and we will possibly singlehandedly collapse the world economy, which is heavily reliant on U.S. spending. Communism in its pure form will never, ever work or be implemented, especially in America, because it works against everything we know. And in the end, it makes absolutely little or no business sense.
Yes, people would all have more money. If we collapsed a skyscraper and gave everyone a piece so that they could have real estate holdings downtown, it's all nice and dandy, but the skyscraper is now collapsed. That is the reality of Communism in the US, or anywhere with a steady/reliable market.
Many unemployed do not want to work. Many unemployed are too stupid to work. Many unemployed can't hold a job, because they do dumb shit like put hands on their supervisor when they get in an argument. I'm not saying 100%, or even 50 percent of the unemployed labor force has a fundamental problem, but at least 10 or 20 percent do. We can employ everyone who is unemployed. We can put a snaggle-tooh rock smoker in charge of the power grid, and Sam the schizophrenic in control of Public Broadcasting, but we all know the effects it would bring. This is what you are suggesting; the fact that everyone unemployed is unemployed because of a poor labor distribution.
Many of our "useless bearacracies" are not that useless. They are there to protect our economic interests. Yes, you say, the economic interests of the top 1 percent, but the spill off in our economy beats that of the total input and output of most other economies. Yes, they hold the reisnt o the fruit cart, but we still get to pick up the surplus. And our surplus beats the total incentive to live in France, or Germany.
Our wealth is largely held by a select few, but those select few have an interest in keeping the US Economy afloat; namely, so their own profits can increase. So what if me and my family only hold .000001% of the national monetary share? It still beats, in total, the .001 percent share held in France, or Germany. We sit on the fattest moneypile in the world. Even if we don't have a direct grab at it from the start, the incentives and resources we have access to allow us to make a better living than someone in a country where the wealth is shared. The US is on the edge of technology, medicine, etc., because of our capitalism, not in spite of it.
Because there is no incentive other than some fariy ass common good to work for. I'm doing OK. You're most likely doing OK. Most of the people on this board are doing OK.
If you can't even reach a small level of success in America economically, you aren't trying hard enough, plain and simple.
1. Get a student loan.
2. Attend community college.
3. Transfer to a 4-year.
4. Budget your money.
What is the measure of the success of the world economic system? poverty? disease? per capita wages? No matter what the yardstick, America is still the best place to become successful. Studies of global cultures and environments found that, contrary to popular belief, America is the best and most likely place to transcend social class. Anyone who says otherwise is pushing an agenda.
The problem is, if we split it all up equally, guess who leaves America? The CEOs, the stock brokers, big business interests, etc. America is as rich as it is because if 1. Its big business incentives and 2. its economic system.
Whole sections of the infrastructure will crumble under this "equal wealth distribution" system. You ever wonder why many people are bums? It's not just racism, classism, or poor opportunities. Many homeless people are mentally ill, lazy, etc. Not all of them, but many.
I live in San Francisco, a city that is extremely tolerant toward the homeless. They are offered/given:
1. Health care
2. Clothes for job interviews
3. Mailing addresses for job interviews
4. Food, SHelter, and Showers
Many refuse it. Many people do not want to be helped. Many simply refuse to live in shelters and return to the street to beg for change, mumble, and talk to the sidewalk. This is the sad reality of the world. There are resources in place, such as student loans, medicaire, medical, racial quota systems, systems in place to help minorities, AFDC, etc., that can offset the effects of poverty or the diminishing effects of racism. What remains is the final grasp by the receptor, and in many cases this is the weak link in the chain.
Hardly. Collapsing all corporate incentive and big business infrastructure will destroy the American economy. The top are not just the top because they are racist white men, or because they are an exclusive club. There is also such a thing as business savvy and education. In the US we have this notion that anyone can do anything. An actor can be a governor, a spoiled brat mamas boy can be a president, a person can use all the wealth, but in reality, there is more to the people at the top than just the "evil white man"ness they posess. There is also a reason they are there. Johnny the Bum would not exactly do well at the head of a marketing firm. The incentives the US govt. has always given to business are one of the main reasons our economy has so thrived.
It looks and sounds great, to make a big moneypile, like some raked leaves, that we can all jump in, but anyone who does care about their money, which is most of the people in the U.S., will jump ship, and head to Europe or some shit. We will have our people's revolution, and we will possibly singlehandedly collapse the world economy, which is heavily reliant on U.S. spending. Communism in its pure form will never, ever work or be implemented, especially in America, because it works against everything we know. And in the end, it makes absolutely little or no business sense.
Yes, people would all have more money. If we collapsed a skyscraper and gave everyone a piece so that they could have real estate holdings downtown, it's all nice and dandy, but the skyscraper is now collapsed. That is the reality of Communism in the US, or anywhere with a steady/reliable market.
Many unemployed do not want to work. Many unemployed are too stupid to work. Many unemployed can't hold a job, because they do dumb shit like put hands on their supervisor when they get in an argument. I'm not saying 100%, or even 50 percent of the unemployed labor force has a fundamental problem, but at least 10 or 20 percent do. We can employ everyone who is unemployed. We can put a snaggle-tooh rock smoker in charge of the power grid, and Sam the schizophrenic in control of Public Broadcasting, but we all know the effects it would bring. This is what you are suggesting; the fact that everyone unemployed is unemployed because of a poor labor distribution.
Many of our "useless bearacracies" are not that useless. They are there to protect our economic interests. Yes, you say, the economic interests of the top 1 percent, but the spill off in our economy beats that of the total input and output of most other economies. Yes, they hold the reisnt o the fruit cart, but we still get to pick up the surplus. And our surplus beats the total incentive to live in France, or Germany.
Our wealth is largely held by a select few, but those select few have an interest in keeping the US Economy afloat; namely, so their own profits can increase. So what if me and my family only hold .000001% of the national monetary share? It still beats, in total, the .001 percent share held in France, or Germany. We sit on the fattest moneypile in the world. Even if we don't have a direct grab at it from the start, the incentives and resources we have access to allow us to make a better living than someone in a country where the wealth is shared. The US is on the edge of technology, medicine, etc., because of our capitalism, not in spite of it.
Because there is no incentive other than some fariy ass common good to work for. I'm doing OK. You're most likely doing OK. Most of the people on this board are doing OK.
If you can't even reach a small level of success in America economically, you aren't trying hard enough, plain and simple.
1. Get a student loan.
2. Attend community college.
3. Transfer to a 4-year.
4. Budget your money.
What is the measure of the success of the world economic system? poverty? disease? per capita wages? No matter what the yardstick, America is still the best place to become successful. Studies of global cultures and environments found that, contrary to popular belief, America is the best and most likely place to transcend social class. Anyone who says otherwise is pushing an agenda.
im broke right now.
5 years from now ill be less broke.
10 years from now ill be living good.
20 years from now ill be living beyond comfertable.
why is this. because i will work hard, learn, move up. achive my goals. and intern make more money, and have more oppertunites at hand.
so fuck your everyone should get a $1 bull shit. why would anyone be a CEO when they could just flip patty's at mc donalds. no presure no paper work no headaches no anything. just go in chill, say do you want fries with that. then go home.
communism takes away ambition and work ethic. to say big bussness would stay when the owner makes the same as the worker. lol yea i mean shit that makes alot of sense dosent it.
in your eyes we should all live in apartments all drive small cars worth no money and dress the same. because all the bussness with nice clothes would leave here and they would be to expensive to buy anyway.
bring some heat. or dont respond. if your lazy yea your gonna love the $1 for everyone idea. if your stupid yea your gonna love the $1 for everyone idea. if you dont plan on doing shit with your life and love being a losser then yea your gonna love the $1 for eveyone idea.
wake the fuck up get off ya ass make moves and money will follow.
5 years from now ill be less broke.
10 years from now ill be living good.
20 years from now ill be living beyond comfertable.
why is this. because i will work hard, learn, move up. achive my goals. and intern make more money, and have more oppertunites at hand.
so fuck your everyone should get a $1 bull shit. why would anyone be a CEO when they could just flip patty's at mc donalds. no presure no paper work no headaches no anything. just go in chill, say do you want fries with that. then go home.
communism takes away ambition and work ethic. to say big bussness would stay when the owner makes the same as the worker. lol yea i mean shit that makes alot of sense dosent it.
in your eyes we should all live in apartments all drive small cars worth no money and dress the same. because all the bussness with nice clothes would leave here and they would be to expensive to buy anyway.
bring some heat. or dont respond. if your lazy yea your gonna love the $1 for everyone idea. if your stupid yea your gonna love the $1 for everyone idea. if you dont plan on doing shit with your life and love being a losser then yea your gonna love the $1 for eveyone idea.
wake the fuck up get off ya ass make moves and money will follow.