Alot of people are happy being stupid and selfish....
- Thread starter shame
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How does it hold true for everyone? There are millions of people who suffer and the suffering has nothing to do with a "false self" or anything remotely attributed to the person or their actions.
A more reasonable person will say the childs mother smoked crack and that is why he/she is suffering as a crack baby.
See above, and it absolutely does matter when he/she is feeling pain, has learning disabilities or behavioral problems that eventually result in incarceration.
Read what I was initially responding to and then read my first response.
A more reasonable person will say the childs mother smoked crack and that is why he/she is suffering as a crack baby.
See above, and it absolutely does matter when he/she is feeling pain, has learning disabilities or behavioral problems that eventually result in incarceration.
Read what I was initially responding to and then read my first response.
i disagree.
millions of people including people who have realized their "Self" still feel bodily pain and sickness as that is a natural part of the physical cycle of life and death.
Suffering is caused by ones association with a false self.
On a smaller scale it is caused by ones fear of pain and desire for pleasure, which both tend to bring the same results.
there are innumerable causes for everything.
In a world that considers society to be the absolute, or physical death the end, yes.
To me, he can only go back to where he came from.
millions of people including people who have realized their "Self" still feel bodily pain and sickness as that is a natural part of the physical cycle of life and death.
Suffering is caused by ones association with a false self.
On a smaller scale it is caused by ones fear of pain and desire for pleasure, which both tend to bring the same results.
there are innumerable causes for everything.
In a world that considers society to be the absolute, or physical death the end, yes.
To me, he can only go back to where he came from.
It is ok to disagree but reality is a bit different.
Pay attention to the following as it is suitable defintion:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/p/suffer
1. To feel pain or distress; sustain loss, injury, harm, or punishment.
2. To tolerate or endure evil, injury, pain, or death. See Synonyms at bear1.
3. To appear at a disadvantage: "He suffers by comparison with his greater contemporary" (Albert C. Baugh).
1. To undergo or sustain (something painful, injurious, or unpleasant): "Ordinary men have always had to suffer the history their leaders were making" (Herbert J. Muller).
2. To experience; undergo: suffer a change in staff.
3. To endure or bear; stand: would not suffer fools.
4. To permit; allow: "They were not suffered to aspire to so exalted a position as that of streetcar conductor" (Edmund S. Morgan).
So you're going ot sit there and say a baby born with fetal alcohol syndrome is suffering because they associated with "false self"?
See above.
There are no innumerable causes for a crack baby. Please read what you're replying to again.
Everything after death is speculation, opinion, hope, faith, belief, etc. What is not up for debate, nor speculation, is the fact that we are here and here is the only thing that matters. Again, it absolutely does matter when he/she is feeling pain, has learning disabilities or behavioral problems that eventually result in incarceration. No one is going to say, "Oh, he didn't transcend yet, don't give him 35 years for smoking that old lady" or "He doesn't have knowledge of self so don't give him life without parole." That is fact, that is life, that is our reality.
Pay attention to the following as it is suitable defintion:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/p/suffer
1. To feel pain or distress; sustain loss, injury, harm, or punishment.
2. To tolerate or endure evil, injury, pain, or death. See Synonyms at bear1.
3. To appear at a disadvantage: "He suffers by comparison with his greater contemporary" (Albert C. Baugh).
1. To undergo or sustain (something painful, injurious, or unpleasant): "Ordinary men have always had to suffer the history their leaders were making" (Herbert J. Muller).
2. To experience; undergo: suffer a change in staff.
3. To endure or bear; stand: would not suffer fools.
4. To permit; allow: "They were not suffered to aspire to so exalted a position as that of streetcar conductor" (Edmund S. Morgan).
So you're going ot sit there and say a baby born with fetal alcohol syndrome is suffering because they associated with "false self"?
See above.
There are no innumerable causes for a crack baby. Please read what you're replying to again.
Everything after death is speculation, opinion, hope, faith, belief, etc. What is not up for debate, nor speculation, is the fact that we are here and here is the only thing that matters. Again, it absolutely does matter when he/she is feeling pain, has learning disabilities or behavioral problems that eventually result in incarceration. No one is going to say, "Oh, he didn't transcend yet, don't give him 35 years for smoking that old lady" or "He doesn't have knowledge of self so don't give him life without parole." That is fact, that is life, that is our reality.
yes your reality is different.
and yes, these definitions are suitable... by your reality for your reality.
im saying we dont know whether the baby suffers or not.
there are innumerable causes to everything.
everything in life is speculation, opinion, hope, faith, belief(assumption), etc.
as is with ones reality, as are life and death as concepts.
you say what is not up for debate nor speculation is the "fact" that "we" here.
can u first tell me who are we? can u just tell me who YOU are?
people tend to not say "he hasnt trancended yet, etc" because of the reality they had adopted and subjected themselves to.
stating that this is fact, life, and reality is dangerous.
trust me, this is only your reality.
and yes, these definitions are suitable... by your reality for your reality.
im saying we dont know whether the baby suffers or not.
there are innumerable causes to everything.
everything in life is speculation, opinion, hope, faith, belief(assumption), etc.
as is with ones reality, as are life and death as concepts.
you say what is not up for debate nor speculation is the "fact" that "we" here.
can u first tell me who are we? can u just tell me who YOU are?
people tend to not say "he hasnt trancended yet, etc" because of the reality they had adopted and subjected themselves to.
stating that this is fact, life, and reality is dangerous.
trust me, this is only your reality.
No, everyone's reality is the same. If you're born, you're going to die. You need air to breath. You eliminate waste. You feel pain, etc. This is reality, and none of what I'm saying has anything to do with a so-called false self.
This makes absolutely no sense at all.
How do you not know if the baby suffers or not? Click on the following link.
http://www.hopebythesea.com/blog/uploaded_images/fas-brain-790496.jpg
What you should see is a pic of two brains. One of the brains is "normal" while the other is FAS. So you're going to actually sit there and say we don't know if the baby suffers or not? So, do you think the child with FAS has visions of sugar plums dancing in their hand? You think angels come and soothe the baby over at night? How is the child not suffering when everything has been altered?
False. Innumerable implies numberless or incalcuable. Again, there are no innumerable causes for a crack baby.
No, everything in life is not speculation, opinion, hope, etc and it doesn't matter what ones "reality" is or isn't.
We are the 6-7 billion people on the planet earth. I'm :H:.
You're still missing the point. Instead of focusing on what people say, focus on their actions, which are, they are going to lock those guys up for however long they can and that is reality.
See above.
Nah, DTA.
This makes absolutely no sense at all.
How do you not know if the baby suffers or not? Click on the following link.
http://www.hopebythesea.com/blog/uploaded_images/fas-brain-790496.jpg
What you should see is a pic of two brains. One of the brains is "normal" while the other is FAS. So you're going to actually sit there and say we don't know if the baby suffers or not? So, do you think the child with FAS has visions of sugar plums dancing in their hand? You think angels come and soothe the baby over at night? How is the child not suffering when everything has been altered?
False. Innumerable implies numberless or incalcuable. Again, there are no innumerable causes for a crack baby.
No, everything in life is not speculation, opinion, hope, etc and it doesn't matter what ones "reality" is or isn't.
We are the 6-7 billion people on the planet earth. I'm :H:.
You're still missing the point. Instead of focusing on what people say, focus on their actions, which are, they are going to lock those guys up for however long they can and that is reality.
See above.
Nah, DTA.
no, everybodys reality isnt the same, unless they have lived an objective reality.
some do, but the majority doesnt.
you speak of "youre born/youll die.... you need air to breathe... you feel pain.. etc"
can you first tell me who this "you" is? As in the end all those concepts and ideas are relative to the experiencer of such things.
i repeat, the definitions you provided are definitions based on the definers reality, dictated by priorities based on assumptions, ambitions/inhibitions, standards and limits, and many more circumstances.
so no, we dont all share the same reality. We happen to live in our own very personal world.
even concepts such as "computer" "rock" etc hold different weight for different people as they are personally conceptualized, imagined, experienced, and are in the end nothing more than a self-expression.
How i know if the baby suffers or not is by the knowledge that the baby hasnt an ego to suffer, nor desires and fears to suffer.
will he suffer once he forms one? most likely. For reasons including influences by a corrupt society and the society's contradictory world view.
Apart from that tho, it is he who will decide in the end whether to accept those limitations or not, suffer or not.
first, im glad you quoted "normal" because that saves me time on explaining my belief that normality doesnt exist beyond subjectivity.
second, no the baby wont have visions of dancing sugar plums, and even if he did theyd be neutral as he hasnt yet given value to them.
Krishnamurti once talked of an experiment he had asked listeners to try:
Take an average rock you tend to overlook, put it somewhere and bow down to it every morning.
guess what ends up happening to that rock? guess why?
from the little that we know of the universe, we can merely start off with the circumstances in society that had enabled the moms use of crack. Maybe her upbringing also, as her parents had lacked the ability to ensure the avoidance of such an addiction, and the reasons for their action/lack of action.
my question is how can you say "there are no innumerable causes for a crack baby" when we barely know an inconceivable "percentage" (if that even applies to something inconceivable) of our universe, or multiverse, or whatever might, could, must, and is beyond?
as our discussion shows, it obviously matters what ones reality is or isnt.
lol, yes we called ourselves people, you called yourself :H:, but first there must be something to be called :H: before the fact.
Can :H: observe the observer or only the observation?
i actually dont look at what people say OR do, and id advise you to look at what i look at, which is intent.
Ones actions, words, and thoughts, are limited by many circumstances while intent according to ones limitation remains a "pure" thing to judge off of.
Yes, they most likely will end up getting locked up for as long as they can but the key here, a key one might call a key to living is that in the end the one thats locked up gets to choose how to see the situation.
One already does so, even tho certain internal forces are at play influencing him.
One already decides how to interpret external events and give them whatever value they choose.
U could be in a desert and it rains what will u do?
U could be in a parade and it rains, how will you react? Why?
some do, but the majority doesnt.
you speak of "youre born/youll die.... you need air to breathe... you feel pain.. etc"
can you first tell me who this "you" is? As in the end all those concepts and ideas are relative to the experiencer of such things.
i repeat, the definitions you provided are definitions based on the definers reality, dictated by priorities based on assumptions, ambitions/inhibitions, standards and limits, and many more circumstances.
so no, we dont all share the same reality. We happen to live in our own very personal world.
even concepts such as "computer" "rock" etc hold different weight for different people as they are personally conceptualized, imagined, experienced, and are in the end nothing more than a self-expression.
How i know if the baby suffers or not is by the knowledge that the baby hasnt an ego to suffer, nor desires and fears to suffer.
will he suffer once he forms one? most likely. For reasons including influences by a corrupt society and the society's contradictory world view.
Apart from that tho, it is he who will decide in the end whether to accept those limitations or not, suffer or not.
first, im glad you quoted "normal" because that saves me time on explaining my belief that normality doesnt exist beyond subjectivity.
second, no the baby wont have visions of dancing sugar plums, and even if he did theyd be neutral as he hasnt yet given value to them.
Krishnamurti once talked of an experiment he had asked listeners to try:
Take an average rock you tend to overlook, put it somewhere and bow down to it every morning.
guess what ends up happening to that rock? guess why?
from the little that we know of the universe, we can merely start off with the circumstances in society that had enabled the moms use of crack. Maybe her upbringing also, as her parents had lacked the ability to ensure the avoidance of such an addiction, and the reasons for their action/lack of action.
my question is how can you say "there are no innumerable causes for a crack baby" when we barely know an inconceivable "percentage" (if that even applies to something inconceivable) of our universe, or multiverse, or whatever might, could, must, and is beyond?
as our discussion shows, it obviously matters what ones reality is or isnt.
lol, yes we called ourselves people, you called yourself :H:, but first there must be something to be called :H: before the fact.
Can :H: observe the observer or only the observation?
i actually dont look at what people say OR do, and id advise you to look at what i look at, which is intent.
Ones actions, words, and thoughts, are limited by many circumstances while intent according to ones limitation remains a "pure" thing to judge off of.
Yes, they most likely will end up getting locked up for as long as they can but the key here, a key one might call a key to living is that in the end the one thats locked up gets to choose how to see the situation.
One already does so, even tho certain internal forces are at play influencing him.
One already decides how to interpret external events and give them whatever value they choose.
U could be in a desert and it rains what will u do?
U could be in a parade and it rains, how will you react? Why?
ok i understand that transcendence talk might not do much for the majority of people as in the end even transcendence becomes nothing more than a concept imagined by a perception submerged in a contradictory perspective.
I also understand why you would believe and say "to think the masses of people can do this with the ease of SAYING transcend is asinine"
but i do wonder, where did anybody speak anything about TALK of transcendence , or saying of transcendence ?
I also understand why you would believe and say "to think the masses of people can do this with the ease of SAYING transcend is asinine"
but i do wonder, where did anybody speak anything about TALK of transcendence , or saying of transcendence ?
What is pain other than a chemical stimulation in our brain?
Without a brain would pain still exist?
This discussion is like the psychological application of the debate between Mach's Principle and the Newtonian view.
Without anything else in the universe motion would not be "motion" because spinning and standing still would be the same thing.
In the same way, without something to compare it to, pain would not exist because pleasure and pain would be one in the same.
So transcending past the relativity of pain and pleasure could create a reality in which pain or pleasure did not exist because they would be the same as every other feeling.
And practically how do you see human beings seperating this brain, and nuerons, endorphins, hormones, etc. From the rest of our body so we won't feel pain (in its many forms)? I'm not here to speak semantics of what is reality or what is not, and what the brain and body constitutes and what they produce, cartesian dualism, basic biology or any of that..My point is the human condition is "suffering", as most of us know it, not those into science, transcedentalist, bodis and other assorted "specials", we need a practical way to minimize this suffering.
Again, everyone’s reality is the same. The only differences being the nuances or individual experiences, but these do not constitute the whole of reality. In regards to your question it has already been answered.
See above, and we don’t live in our very own personal world. No person, not even a hermit, is an island to themselves. Yes tangible things may hold different meaning to some, but meaning is simply a label they attached to it or was told to attach to it. So say in your private own world you want to worship a computer and rock and you call them “The Gods of ROCK COMP”. If your world compromises what is reality guess what happens? Your ass is gonna get tasered, locked up or possibly stoned if you’re worshiping the Gods of Rock Comp in a place where worship is forbidden.
This makes no sense. One does not have to have an ego to suffer physical pain or undergo some type of change. As Dhadnot pointed out, this is all part of the body and no amount of talk is going to change this fact. If a person puts their hand in a burning fire, and they feel no pain, does it mean they aren’t burned? No it doesn’t because when your flesh is being subjected to a certain amount of degrees it is going to burn. So you can call it whatever you want, but at the end of the day the condition is the same.
I quoted it as such because that is what the picture shows and did. A child with FAS does not have a brain of a normal child as normal brain looks and responds differently. What a child with FAS does have is a brain that is normal for a child with FAS, a brain that is underdeveloped in several areas.
He doesn’t have to have values given to him. The fact his system has basically been compromised and rewired is enough to show this. When a baby cries what are they crying for? Are they crying because of ego or crying because they are communicating that they need a milk to survive or need to be changed? When a male child is circumsized and he screams out is he screaming because he hasn’t transcended pain and his ego is involved or is he screaming because he is in pain and subjected to a custom his parents, not he, decided was best for him?
In regards to the rock, it will do absolutely nothing. What may happen, depending on the mental stability of the person, is the rock may be worshipped or held in high regards.
Innumerable implies numberless or incalculable. There are no innumerable causes in this case.
The only reality is here and now.
Both, especially with the use of a mirror.
Intent means nothing in the end. In the end it is either what you did or what you said. A person may have good intentions all along, but if those intentions are not manifest in word or deed they are nothing.
Tell that to the courts. Better yet, try to get a lawyer to argue that in a court of law and see what happens to you.
How they see the situation is of no value. They are powerless and could not control their fate. So let’s say while locked up they decided to change their ways, started to help others, wrote children’s books etc. Guess who controls all of that? Not the individual. He is subjected to the rules and laws of others, his reality is he is told what to do and non compliance will result in 30 days in the hole and a beat down. He can transcend and be motivated by intrinsic values but at the end of the day it means nothing. He’s locked up and he isn’t getting out.
See above, and you can interpret something as good all day long but that doesn’t mean good will come from it.
See above, and we don’t live in our very own personal world. No person, not even a hermit, is an island to themselves. Yes tangible things may hold different meaning to some, but meaning is simply a label they attached to it or was told to attach to it. So say in your private own world you want to worship a computer and rock and you call them “The Gods of ROCK COMP”. If your world compromises what is reality guess what happens? Your ass is gonna get tasered, locked up or possibly stoned if you’re worshiping the Gods of Rock Comp in a place where worship is forbidden.
This makes no sense. One does not have to have an ego to suffer physical pain or undergo some type of change. As Dhadnot pointed out, this is all part of the body and no amount of talk is going to change this fact. If a person puts their hand in a burning fire, and they feel no pain, does it mean they aren’t burned? No it doesn’t because when your flesh is being subjected to a certain amount of degrees it is going to burn. So you can call it whatever you want, but at the end of the day the condition is the same.
I quoted it as such because that is what the picture shows and did. A child with FAS does not have a brain of a normal child as normal brain looks and responds differently. What a child with FAS does have is a brain that is normal for a child with FAS, a brain that is underdeveloped in several areas.
He doesn’t have to have values given to him. The fact his system has basically been compromised and rewired is enough to show this. When a baby cries what are they crying for? Are they crying because of ego or crying because they are communicating that they need a milk to survive or need to be changed? When a male child is circumsized and he screams out is he screaming because he hasn’t transcended pain and his ego is involved or is he screaming because he is in pain and subjected to a custom his parents, not he, decided was best for him?
In regards to the rock, it will do absolutely nothing. What may happen, depending on the mental stability of the person, is the rock may be worshipped or held in high regards.
Innumerable implies numberless or incalculable. There are no innumerable causes in this case.
The only reality is here and now.
Both, especially with the use of a mirror.
Intent means nothing in the end. In the end it is either what you did or what you said. A person may have good intentions all along, but if those intentions are not manifest in word or deed they are nothing.
Tell that to the courts. Better yet, try to get a lawyer to argue that in a court of law and see what happens to you.
How they see the situation is of no value. They are powerless and could not control their fate. So let’s say while locked up they decided to change their ways, started to help others, wrote children’s books etc. Guess who controls all of that? Not the individual. He is subjected to the rules and laws of others, his reality is he is told what to do and non compliance will result in 30 days in the hole and a beat down. He can transcend and be motivated by intrinsic values but at the end of the day it means nothing. He’s locked up and he isn’t getting out.
See above, and you can interpret something as good all day long but that doesn’t mean good will come from it.