Remember when it didn't matter who made the beat ?

[DubbC415]

the fuck are ya'll talkin about, in my opinion producers dont get ENOUGH love. they MAKE THE FUCKIN MUSIC YA'LL! just because u may say "i dont give a fuck who makes it" doesnt mean it doesnt matter. this is some stupid ass bullshit. who gives a fuck if u dont care, producers need their credit. And what does it matter to you, if it matters to other people who made the beat? point blank period, ur feeling about who the producer is has nothing to do if it "matters". its all opinion. i mean sure, i dont wanna necessarily see jazze pha in every video or have quik hollerin his name all over a track, but dont go acting like producers arent important.

 

[StudSucram]

I think what the dude who started this thread was trying to say was he was feeling when cats didnt buy shit just because Neptunes, Timberland, Dre, akon (whoever else) did the beat. But thats all because Radio/TV control thats sound and its more sheeps then hearders anyway. I like when artist work with only one producer, or at least a main producer/(who makes the beats) on the album, that way they can get a real feeling and vibe together. Pac didn't need features and name brand producers because he was Pac and ran off emotions. But Please believe alot of these new rappers do need name brand producers or features to get some attention. It still dont matter who makes your beat on the indy level...like someone said....look at Mac Dre he dealt with everyone....as well as 40. However when u start dealing with the big boys (majors who insist on going to all the producers that have current hits on the radio) they can ruin your album cos alot of time these producers are overwhelmed with work and making the same type of beats over and over...for instance.....shake it like a cyclone...dont that sound familar?? Producers should definitely get the same props as Rappers too when they are Producers....cos its a big difference between beatmakers and Producers.

 

[T-Spoon]

its a simple formula;

PAC days= lyrical days
Nowadays= beats

Nowadays in order to be a good "rapper" u have to be another part of the beat, u hav to "chant" or "harmonize" with the beat. Look at whee the focus is now- DOWN SOUTH. The rappers doin good nowadays can't even rap, they jus got that "swag" on the mic ( plies, ricc Ross, rich boy, etc).

Like alot of yall, I used to not look at prod credits, nowadays I catch myself searching all over the net to see who made this and that beat.

Alot of folx say ti is one of the best, if ti came out when PAC was around, to would get ATE. Ti jus got them hard BEATS and that SWAG.

Whoever can master that formula (tight beat + good swag (good hook included) = hit song. Fold

 

[C.M.P CEO]

alot of times its not the producer fault for puttin out the same type of beat and just resampling up a beat....for example..if i had made a beat and the artist wit platnium off our single,u can best believe that my next client would be asking me sumthin like this "can u make me sumthin a lil like yo last hit"....and if sum1 puttin cash in yo face,u not gon tell them no,if thats the sound yo client is after,and u want to remain i business,then what choice you got? this is the case for alot of top producers

 

[Sick Wid It]

If you don't care who made the beats then you shouldn't care who the rapper is either. Every point you make can be argued in favor of the beat makers or producers. I don't buy music based on who the rapper is but I do based on who the producer is. I'm personally more interested in musical composition then someones fairytale rapping.

If Tupac made music you like, buy it. If Timbaland makes music you like, buy it. What does it matter if in the end you like what you hear?

 

[Sick Wid It]

its a simple formula;

PAC days= lyrical days
Nowadays= beats

That's funny because first of all Tupac wasn't some lyrical genius. There's nothing amazing about Tupac the rapper, it's Tupac the person that's the star.

And secondly, beats (aka the actual music) has always been important. Why do you think producers become famous in the first place? Was Dre known as a hot producer in the days of NWA? Yes, and plenty of people bought NWA albums just to hear the newest Dre beats.

 

[Sav Scorcese]

I didn't buy NWA because of Dre's beats, I bought it because of the content and what they were saying. Contrary to what our moderator thinks, Tupac was very lyrical, peep the song "Young Black Male".

 

[StudSucram]

Tspoon I agree with you a 100%..U know whats up...and if we both right my album should go diamond (ha ha..jus playing) CMP hell yeah u right too...Its not the producers fault that Labels and A&Rs telling em make something like Lil John over and over again. The Radio played all Dre sounding beats b4.....all Timberland sounding beats....All Neptune sounding beats and now its the Akon T-pain talkbox feeled songs with half ass singers sound. Aint mad but its real. Sick wit it u right too...Pac was my favorite rapper (even when he was alive) not because he was lyrical...cos that he wasn't but you could actually feel what he saying the same way u feel old school R&B singers.

 

[autistic]

It kills me when people say Pac wasn't lyrical. To people who say that I say your understaning of lyricism is amateur. People now and days think punchlines=lyricism. There's much more to it.

 

[70SAV]

OK! yall done brought me out of my short lived retirement for this one... You gotta be fuckin' crazy. You're tryin to tell me that there is any, and I do mean ANY, rapper or lyricist alive (or dead for that matter) that is tight enough to ressurect a truly garbage ass beat on lyrical talent alone? You niggas must be on medication.

OK then Lets dig up Pac, BIG, and MAC DRE, and put em in the studio wit Rakim, Kool G Rap, Nas, EMINEM and JAY-Z... not only that, lets grab Prince, Michael Jackson, Marvin Gaye, Aretha Franklin, Chaka Khan, Mary J. , Keisha Cole, Sade, Usher, and goddamn me Pavoratti to take turns singin the hook. But since the production don't matter, what were gonna do is were gonna use the instrumental to "Macarena" and strap an 808 kick to it on the 1 and the 3...

OR... Lets get Dr. Dre, OR Quik, OR Kanye, Or Premiere (depending on your tastes) to make a track for the nigga who lives next door to you's grandmamma.

Which one are you more likely to bump in your car?

Point Made... Dead Thread.

P.S. the Konglomerati Cometh and production is EVERYTHING.

 

[TOMMYJAMES]

I THINK ILL RATHER HEAR ALL OF THEM ON THE MACARENA BEAT.

 

[Sick Wid It]

It kills me when people say Pac wasn't lyrical. To people who say that I say your understaning of lyricism is amateur. People now and days think punchlines=lyricism. There's much more to it.

If you really believe that then you need to mentally step it up. Punchlines are just a display of wit and it's people who are easily entertained by lyrics who have the amateur understanding of "lyricism". Tupac said on many occasions that he isn't a particularly lyrical dude, he's "just real", and when that's coming from Tupac himself........

It's a shame more people aren't into deeper, more thought-provoking lyrics but then again not a lot of people are real 'thinkers' to begin with.

 

[autistic]

If you really believe that then you need to mentally step it up. Punchlines are just a display of wit and it's people who are easily entertained by lyrics who have the amateur understanding of "lyricism". Tupac said on many occasions that he isn't a particularly lyrical dude, he's "just real", and when that's coming from Tupac himself........

It's a shame more people aren't into deeper, more thought-provoking lyrics but then again not a lot of people are real 'thinkers' to begin with.

Im not going to go back and forth on this topic with you. I wish I had the time and patience to educate people on what lyricism is. Until then I can just say you people kill me. Peace.

 

[T-Spoon]

That's funny because first of all Tupac wasn't some lyrical genius. There's nothing amazing about Tupac the rapper, it's Tupac the person that's the star.

And secondly, beats (aka the actual music) has always been important. Why do you think producers become famous in the first place? Was Dre known as a hot producer in the days of NWA? Yes, and plenty of people bought NWA albums just to hear the newest Dre beats.

to each his own sic. i see where folks come from when they say pac aint "lyrical", but "lyrical" to u guys is different than the "lyrical" that us pac fans think of. like autistic said, to ME AND HIM, metaphors just don't move me. yeah, they're witty, but to me, a LYRICAL person makes me FEEL the music. it ain't about him bein "real", it's about his LYRICS, bottom line. folx say, no it's pacs EMOTIONS, but it AINT. theres a gang of EMOTIONAL rappers, that cant TOUCH pac. now, if u think metaphors are lyrical, who am i to say it's not, its jus ur taste. so TO ME, pac was the BEST "LYRICIST". now sic, we kno that this is a neverending debate, so i have my opinion, and u have urs. i'm not here to say ur wrong, and i'm right. i'm jus sayin, lyrically (by my definition) pac was the best, and lyrically (by ur definition) he is not. cool. lol.

also, when i mentioned "pac days", i'm jus sayin pac DAYS. not jus pac, but majority of rappers in that era. biggie, nas, pac, etc. so therefore, i stand by wut i initially said:

pac days: lyricism
nowadays: beats.

if u think about it, u (sic wit it), u chose to comment on dr dre out of all producers in that era. of course dre is an exeption. that's y dre is where he's at now. but other than dre, i also stand by wut i said initially. i remember when pac was alive i used to HATE new york shit, mainly cuz the MUSIC. and thats the music that saturated the radio stations. if the beats werent sampled (like 90% of the radio songs), then they were jus really boring. so the music aspect wasnt' as bangin as it is now, IMO. that's y i always listened to west coast shit, cuz that radio shit didn't move me. fold.

 

[Boogie The Mann]

I didn't buy NWA because of Dre's beats, I bought it because of the content and what they were saying. Contrary to what our moderator thinks, Tupac was very lyrical, peep the song "Young Black Male".

One of my favorite Pac songs cuz he utilizes the flip it delivery....

 

[Masked Lemon]

 

[Boogie The Mann]

Congrats...you are the first one to do that to me......I know you wont be the last......hahahahahahaaha

 

[70SAV]

I THINK ILL RATHER HEAR ALL OF THEM ON THE MACARENA BEAT.

Maybe... but you only THINK you would. I think that all the feature filled flatinum albums the bay has put out in the last couple of years would be enough to prove the point alone... but I guess I must be the only one tired of all the bloated ass, shit produced tracks, being force fed to me.

Hip Hop as a whole is in the equivalent of it's ice age right now BECAUSE of the lack of quality in production. Tell me this... how the fuck can a rapper or lyricist be expected to get his true spit on if the track does not inspire him? Shit, if the producer and the track don't matter, why don't fools just do away with the music altogether and kick that shit "spoken-word" (I wonder how many copies that would sell?)

If you've been racking your brain to figure out why music has been so bad lately, THIS kind of mentality one of the reasons. With sales being down across the board due to downloading, the labels are forced to cut the fat somewhere in the budget. Can't get rid of the artist right? So whats left? Lets see... um artist development, uh regional promotion, and oh yeah quality production!

Instead of searching for regional talent through the top regional producers and promoting them to their regional audiences and developing them to SEE if they have national appeal like they USED to, the labels just let their current ARTISTS who ARE selling pick the talent (probably some of those guys you always see hanging around them all the time but never seem to DO anything). They then piggyback them off of their stars bigness whether the world likes them or not.

Not only that but after giving the artists MORE creative control at the expense of the producer, they give them LESS budget dollars than they used to. What happens then? Mr. Artist realizes that if he just grabs up a bunch of no name substandard producers to make the album for free just to get credit he can pocket the rest.

I don't know... I think I liked it better when the producers picked the new talent. I mean after all isn't that what a producer's job is? To "produce" a complete package (in other words A HIT) from musical instrumentation and voices. When I'm creating a track I don't let someone else pick my drums sounds. Why should I let them pick my "voice".

Anywayz... good luck with them spoken word joints...

P.S. The Konglomerati Cometh... Oh yeah and so does my dick Beeeeeyotch!

 

[autistic]

like autistic said, to ME AND HIM, metaphors just don't move me.

no disrespect t-spoon but you can't speak for me. I dig metaphors and punchlines and all that shit too. I just have a broader understanding of lyricism that includes more than just metaphors, multi-syllable rhymes, and punchlines.

 

[Boogie The Mann]

no disrespect t-spoon but you can't speak for me. I dig metaphors and punchlines and all that shit too. I just have a broader understanding of lyricism that includes more than just metaphors, multi-syllable rhymes, and punchlines.

Like delivery and personality,wordplay and phrasing