Poor White People
- Thread starter Scottie Pimpin
- Start date
@heresy
you took my post in the wrong way and ran with it so ill break it down
i dont see why somebody is *blessed* with the ability to work hard and not be lazy . . . thats like saying you have to be blessed to be motivated -- i was simply stating that just because a person is poor and white they still work hard and have shortcomings of their own that could make them that way.
when i said that this isnt the 60's i was stating that oppression isnt the MAJOR problem with minorities trying to get a job -- oppression is still around and i know people feel the "sting" of it all the time but stating that many people are delusional and act like these acts of discrimination dont happen? who were you refering to?
how is my statement sweeping anything under the rug?
in many rights oppression in america towards minorities holds them back
however
have you ever tried to start a business? have you done any research into the kind of money it takes to start what you want to do? there are MANY government programs that SUPPORT minorities of all kinds in loans and GRANT money -- in fact, bank loans to start a business can be the worst way to go - but thats besides the point, the problems with money in our society relating to minorities is based more on class than color
you took my post in the wrong way and ran with it so ill break it down
i dont see why somebody is *blessed* with the ability to work hard and not be lazy . . . thats like saying you have to be blessed to be motivated -- i was simply stating that just because a person is poor and white they still work hard and have shortcomings of their own that could make them that way.
when i said that this isnt the 60's i was stating that oppression isnt the MAJOR problem with minorities trying to get a job -- oppression is still around and i know people feel the "sting" of it all the time but stating that many people are delusional and act like these acts of discrimination dont happen? who were you refering to?
how is my statement sweeping anything under the rug?
in many rights oppression in america towards minorities holds them back
however
have you ever tried to start a business? have you done any research into the kind of money it takes to start what you want to do? there are MANY government programs that SUPPORT minorities of all kinds in loans and GRANT money -- in fact, bank loans to start a business can be the worst way to go - but thats besides the point, the problems with money in our society relating to minorities is based more on class than color
"i dont see why somebody is *blessed* with the ability to work hard and not be lazy . . . thats like saying you have to be blessed to be motivated -- i was simply stating that just because a person is poor and white they still work hard and have shortcomings of their own that could make them that way."
Some people aren't blessed with a certain attitude/mentality. If your parents worked hard and achieved goals thats a good thing. You do have to be blessed to be motivated. You can't be motivated if you have *NOTHING* to be motivated for. Do you comprehend this? I agree that poor white people work hard and have shortcomings. Thats not up for debate. Have you ever heard the term "laziness will kill you"?
"when i said that this isnt the 60's i was stating that oppression isnt the MAJOR problem with minorities trying to get a job -- oppression is still around and i know people feel the "sting" of it all the time but stating that many people are delusional and act like these acts of discrimination dont happen? "
Yeah....sure....being attacked by dog's, entering stores from the back door and sprayed with high powered water hoses are no longer everyday events. What you ***FAIL*** to understand is the fact that oppression is *NOT* limited to PHYSICAL oppression. What about mental, spiritual and economic oppression????????
"who were you refering to?"
The statement may be applied to the majority fo white posters in this thread. However I was specifically referring to *YOU*, White Devil and Deluzional as all three of you have *CONSTANTLY* shown the "just get over it" mentality.
"how is my statement sweeping anything under the rug?"
and you have to ask?????? *YOU* honestly don't see anything wrong with what you (and others) have posted?
"have you ever tried to start a business?"
Yes and have been quite succesful so far.
"have you done any research into the kind of money it takes to start what you want to do? there are MANY government programs that SUPPORT minorities of all kinds in loans and GRANT money --"
I am 100% *AGAINST* the american government and would feel APOSTATE if I took one dime/hand out from them.
"in fact, bank loans to start a business can be the worst way to go - but thats besides the point, the problems with money in our society relating to minorities is based more on class than color"
When it comes to money you ***ONLY*** have TWO classes in the entire world. You're either RICH or POOR. With that being said ask yourself why minorities are not in the top 20%........
:hgk:
ps When I used "I" in reference to getting a loan and renting I was not referring to myself.
Some people aren't blessed with a certain attitude/mentality. If your parents worked hard and achieved goals thats a good thing. You do have to be blessed to be motivated. You can't be motivated if you have *NOTHING* to be motivated for. Do you comprehend this? I agree that poor white people work hard and have shortcomings. Thats not up for debate. Have you ever heard the term "laziness will kill you"?
"when i said that this isnt the 60's i was stating that oppression isnt the MAJOR problem with minorities trying to get a job -- oppression is still around and i know people feel the "sting" of it all the time but stating that many people are delusional and act like these acts of discrimination dont happen? "
Yeah....sure....being attacked by dog's, entering stores from the back door and sprayed with high powered water hoses are no longer everyday events. What you ***FAIL*** to understand is the fact that oppression is *NOT* limited to PHYSICAL oppression. What about mental, spiritual and economic oppression????????
"who were you refering to?"
The statement may be applied to the majority fo white posters in this thread. However I was specifically referring to *YOU*, White Devil and Deluzional as all three of you have *CONSTANTLY* shown the "just get over it" mentality.
"how is my statement sweeping anything under the rug?"
and you have to ask?????? *YOU* honestly don't see anything wrong with what you (and others) have posted?
"have you ever tried to start a business?"
Yes and have been quite succesful so far.
"have you done any research into the kind of money it takes to start what you want to do? there are MANY government programs that SUPPORT minorities of all kinds in loans and GRANT money --"
I am 100% *AGAINST* the american government and would feel APOSTATE if I took one dime/hand out from them.
"in fact, bank loans to start a business can be the worst way to go - but thats besides the point, the problems with money in our society relating to minorities is based more on class than color"
When it comes to money you ***ONLY*** have TWO classes in the entire world. You're either RICH or POOR. With that being said ask yourself why minorities are not in the top 20%........
:hgk:
ps When I used "I" in reference to getting a loan and renting I was not referring to myself.
Loan discrimination and housing discrimination are a reality. Should they be addressed? Yes. Should they be forgotten? Of course not. But where is money and energy better spent, focusing on the list of those 9 out of 10 who have denied you, or taking your shitty loan, your shitty apartment, and doing something with it? Awareness needs to spread and situations need to be recognized, but in the balance of pointing out the situation and doing something about it, the finger pointing receives too large a part of the effort.
I'm not saying "Don't point out White racism" or "Forget about slavery", but what will profit minorities more, focusing on what can be done now and in the future, or focusing on what has happened, even what is still happening? If there is any time when racism is being eclipsed by class it is now. Even a disadvantaged minority in America has a possession people in other countries would die for simply by living on Amerikkkan soul, and it is time for them to stake their claim, not sit around talking about who "won't buy from a black salesman", who "doesn't wanna hire a black man", even shit that is disgustingly offensive like being called ni**er or spic by some inbred fuck, etc.
See but we can never address the problem. Attempting to make 'society' rather than 'oneself' the instrument of change is impossible, plain and simple. Those who want to be racist, at this point, will be racist. Those who don't, won't. There is not going to be a major paradigm shift in racism based on some new movement. Anyone with the simple ability to reason will be past that attitude. There is a balance between "sweeping it under the rug" and "exposing the racism". Just as there is a downside to sweeping it under the rug, the downside to "exposing the racism" is that white people who aren't racist, who, like my family, came from poverty, somtimes see it as an excuse, and daily work with black people who have a very shoddy work ethic, yet are very capable of setting in relief the extreme discrimination and disadvantages from which they are able to make it.
And you can't say "oh, that is just a select few" because there is very often an entitlement mentality among black people who simply give up as far as work ethics are concerned, working just hard enough to net get fired, and blaming every failure on the fact that they are black and we are white. More below..
Someone will also find an excuse to inflate it and blame it on racism, rather than extrinsic factors, such as those you mentioned, or personal shortcomings.
You're right. I was wrong in saying the average person would buck up and keep going. What I meant to say was that the average black person more often blames failure on racism, instead of just accepting the natural fact that some failure is imminent in any business. Studies show that black students more often graduate from all black colleges, and this is more than partially due to the fact that surveys have confirmed black students often generally percieve other white students as racist or discriminatory towards them, even when no evidence of racism is presented.
Maybe the reason tony has problems seeing racism, even when fully submersed in a black environment, is because less of it exists than most people think.
H we will probably never see eye to eye on this. You see racism as an obstacle to black success, and until all people fully recognize and denounce it, you believe it always will be. I say racism, just like God, Hate, Fear, or any other largely intangible factor, is more inflated or deflated by one's own mind.
One other factor not many people mention is the extremely thick "ebonics" that many black people from low income areas speak. It often gives some people the impression of being unprofessional, and can almost be a language barrier sometimes. People get the idea that it is intrinsically black, that black people cannot be told to speak professionally, etc. The reality is it is just a lower class thing. The same may be seen in white rednecks. Many black people looking for work honestly need to be taught to speak formally. This isn't racism, it's just common sense. If we all continue to treat the issue with kid gloves, nothing is gonna happen.
I'm not saying "Don't point out White racism" or "Forget about slavery", but what will profit minorities more, focusing on what can be done now and in the future, or focusing on what has happened, even what is still happening? If there is any time when racism is being eclipsed by class it is now. Even a disadvantaged minority in America has a possession people in other countries would die for simply by living on Amerikkkan soul, and it is time for them to stake their claim, not sit around talking about who "won't buy from a black salesman", who "doesn't wanna hire a black man", even shit that is disgustingly offensive like being called ni**er or spic by some inbred fuck, etc.
See but we can never address the problem. Attempting to make 'society' rather than 'oneself' the instrument of change is impossible, plain and simple. Those who want to be racist, at this point, will be racist. Those who don't, won't. There is not going to be a major paradigm shift in racism based on some new movement. Anyone with the simple ability to reason will be past that attitude. There is a balance between "sweeping it under the rug" and "exposing the racism". Just as there is a downside to sweeping it under the rug, the downside to "exposing the racism" is that white people who aren't racist, who, like my family, came from poverty, somtimes see it as an excuse, and daily work with black people who have a very shoddy work ethic, yet are very capable of setting in relief the extreme discrimination and disadvantages from which they are able to make it.
And you can't say "oh, that is just a select few" because there is very often an entitlement mentality among black people who simply give up as far as work ethics are concerned, working just hard enough to net get fired, and blaming every failure on the fact that they are black and we are white. More below..
Someone will also find an excuse to inflate it and blame it on racism, rather than extrinsic factors, such as those you mentioned, or personal shortcomings.
You're right. I was wrong in saying the average person would buck up and keep going. What I meant to say was that the average black person more often blames failure on racism, instead of just accepting the natural fact that some failure is imminent in any business. Studies show that black students more often graduate from all black colleges, and this is more than partially due to the fact that surveys have confirmed black students often generally percieve other white students as racist or discriminatory towards them, even when no evidence of racism is presented.
Maybe the reason tony has problems seeing racism, even when fully submersed in a black environment, is because less of it exists than most people think.
H we will probably never see eye to eye on this. You see racism as an obstacle to black success, and until all people fully recognize and denounce it, you believe it always will be. I say racism, just like God, Hate, Fear, or any other largely intangible factor, is more inflated or deflated by one's own mind.
One other factor not many people mention is the extremely thick "ebonics" that many black people from low income areas speak. It often gives some people the impression of being unprofessional, and can almost be a language barrier sometimes. People get the idea that it is intrinsically black, that black people cannot be told to speak professionally, etc. The reality is it is just a lower class thing. The same may be seen in white rednecks. Many black people looking for work honestly need to be taught to speak formally. This isn't racism, it's just common sense. If we all continue to treat the issue with kid gloves, nothing is gonna happen.
"Loan discrimination and housing discrimination are a reality. Should they be addressed? Yes. Should they be forgotten? Of course not. But where is money and energy better spent, focusing on the list of those 9 out of 10 who have denied you, or taking your shitty loan, your shitty apartment, and doing something with it? Awareness needs to spread and situations need to be recognized, but in the balance of pointing out the situation and doing something about it, the finger pointing receives too large a part of the effort."
What you're doing is role swapping. You're placing emphasis on those who have been wronged and your making them appear to be the oppressor. If discrimination didn't happen we wouln't have finger pointing. Plain and simple. As for where is money and energy better spent? Here is an excerpt from my other post:
"Yes they happen and it isn't wrong to say to yourself "I may be denied but I'll find another way". It isn't wrong to have it in your mind that you may be denied but at the end of the day you can try again."
Dust yourself off and do what you need to do.
"I'm not saying "Don't point out White racism" or "Forget about slavery", but what will profit minorities more, focusing on what can be done now and in the future, or focusing on what has happened, even what is still happening? If there is any time when racism is being eclipsed by class it is now. Even a disadvantaged minority in America has a possession people in other countries would die for simply by living on Amerikkkan soul, and it is time for them to stake their claim, not sit around talking about who "won't buy from a black salesman", who "doesn't wanna hire a black man", even shit that is disgustingly offensive like being called ni**er or spic by some inbred fuck, etc."
Focusing on what can be done now and in the future will benefit more. HOWEVER....in order to understand the present and plan the future you MUST understand the PAST. Why understand the past and address it? Because history will repeat itself and certain people (black and white) have yet to come to grips with crimes commited against others. Why do people focus on the past? Because it has NOT been properly addressed by WHITE AMERICA. I agree it is time to stake a claim and not sit around talking. Maybe blacks should have the same mentality as the white's who came over here originally...............
"See but we can never address the problem."
Please read my previous statement again.
"Attempting to make 'society' rather than 'oneself' the instrument of change is impossible, plain and simple."
I agree which is why black people should wake up. White america has done all it will EVER do so now blacks should take matters into their own hand's. In doing so guess what will happen? More and more whites will pop up and say blacks are racist for keeping things "black". I've seen it happen in society and it's even happened on this board and ****NO**** I'm not talking about rap music.
"Those who want to be racist, at this point, will be racist. Those who don't, won't. There is not going to be a major paradigm shift in racism based on some new movement. Anyone with the simple ability to reason will be past that attitude."
I agree with you.
"There is a balance between "sweeping it under the rug" and "exposing the racism". Just as there is a downside to sweeping it under the rug, the downside to "exposing the racism" is that white people who aren't racist, who, like my family, came from poverty, somtimes see it as an excuse, and daily work with black people who have a very shoddy work ethic, yet are very capable of setting in relief the extreme discrimination and disadvantages from which they are able to make it."
Yes you'll have a downside to it but you have to remember where it comes from. What is the downside a product of? With the attitude you and others have CONSTANTLY shown it seems as if you forget or don't know.
"And you can't say "oh, that is just a select few" because there is very often an entitlement mentality among black people who simply give up as far as work ethics are concerned, working just hard enough to net get fired, and blaming every failure on the fact that they are black and we are white. More below.."
The majority of blacks that I know on a *personal* level don't have this mentality. Maybe in your circle yes but in my circle no. What you fail to understand/address is WHY blacks have this mentality. The majority of white people are coming off as hard working middle/poor citizens.......yeah sure........after reaping the rewards of 400+ years of rape, decimation, torture and genocide......
Stop with the perfect johnny role.
"Someone will also find an excuse to inflate it and blame it on racism, rather than extrinsic factors, such as those you mentioned, or personal shortcomings."
And someone will also find an excuse to donwplay it, not call it for what it is........It goes both ways.
"You're right. I was wrong in saying the average person would buck up and keep going. "
You're also wrong in several other assessments which I will address.
"What I meant to say was that the average black person more often blames failure on racism, instead of just accepting the natural fact that some failure is imminent in any business."
You show signs of "blind racism". Please define "the average black person". Where does this average black person live, what does the average black person eat, what does the average black person spend money on, what educational background does the average black person have? Do you know 20 "average blacks" who have started a business? Please READ your statement again. Read it a couple of times before you respond. If I were to say "the average white person shows a racist mentality" would I be correct?
"Studies show that black students more often graduate from all black colleges, and this is more than partially due to the fact that surveys have confirmed black students often generally percieve other white students as racist or discriminatory towards them, even when no evidence of racism is presented. "
What are your experiences with black students who have graduated from black colleges? What your telling me is something black people have experienced for years. Being discriminated against and being percieved as a threat for NO reason. EMMETT TILL comes to mind.
"Maybe the reason tony has problems seeing racism, even when fully submersed in a black environment, is because less of it exists than most people think."
:shaking his head:
"H we will probably never see eye to eye on this. You see racism as an obstacle to black success, and until all people fully recognize and denounce it, you believe it always will be."
I see racism as an obstruction to black success but at the end of the day blacks have to look at themselves. I don't see it as the ONLY thing holding blacks down. The only way all people will recognize and denounce it is when earth is made a utopia. So yes racism will always be a factor in society. How much of a factor depends on the person who experiences it. To be honest I take it and run with it. It drives me to make succeed. My parents didnt raise me to look for hand outs or to cry racism every time I heard nigger. They taught me to exceed and be BETTER. Why? If I don't exceed and be better I won't get what I want/desire.
"I say racism, just like God, Hate, Fear, or any other largely intangible factor, is more inflated or deflated by one's own mind."
I agree but when people are being sodomized by people of power/authority something is wrong. When an un armed man is shot 41 times something is wrong. When a mildly retarded boy is slammed on a vehicle while he is in cuffs something is wrong..........Yeah let's deflate it........
"One other factor not many people mention is the extremely thick "ebonics" that many black people from low income areas speak. It often gives some people the impression of being unprofessional, and can almost be a language barrier sometimes. People get the idea that it is intrinsically black, that black people cannot be told to speak professionally, etc. The reality is it is just a lower class thing. The same may be seen in white rednecks."
The same is seen in "white rednecks" but it isn't addressed by the majority of society. Ebonics is shunned and deemed unprofessional but *white* owners of million dollar companies market and promote it everyday. Why is that?
"Many black people looking for work honestly need to be taught to speak formally. This isn't racism, it's just common sense. If we all continue to treat the issue with kid gloves, nothing is gonna happen."
Not only speak formally but your attire should be formal as well.
I had no time to go over typos/errors I'm in a hurry.
:hgk:
What you're doing is role swapping. You're placing emphasis on those who have been wronged and your making them appear to be the oppressor. If discrimination didn't happen we wouln't have finger pointing. Plain and simple. As for where is money and energy better spent? Here is an excerpt from my other post:
"Yes they happen and it isn't wrong to say to yourself "I may be denied but I'll find another way". It isn't wrong to have it in your mind that you may be denied but at the end of the day you can try again."
Dust yourself off and do what you need to do.
"I'm not saying "Don't point out White racism" or "Forget about slavery", but what will profit minorities more, focusing on what can be done now and in the future, or focusing on what has happened, even what is still happening? If there is any time when racism is being eclipsed by class it is now. Even a disadvantaged minority in America has a possession people in other countries would die for simply by living on Amerikkkan soul, and it is time for them to stake their claim, not sit around talking about who "won't buy from a black salesman", who "doesn't wanna hire a black man", even shit that is disgustingly offensive like being called ni**er or spic by some inbred fuck, etc."
Focusing on what can be done now and in the future will benefit more. HOWEVER....in order to understand the present and plan the future you MUST understand the PAST. Why understand the past and address it? Because history will repeat itself and certain people (black and white) have yet to come to grips with crimes commited against others. Why do people focus on the past? Because it has NOT been properly addressed by WHITE AMERICA. I agree it is time to stake a claim and not sit around talking. Maybe blacks should have the same mentality as the white's who came over here originally...............
"See but we can never address the problem."
Please read my previous statement again.
"Attempting to make 'society' rather than 'oneself' the instrument of change is impossible, plain and simple."
I agree which is why black people should wake up. White america has done all it will EVER do so now blacks should take matters into their own hand's. In doing so guess what will happen? More and more whites will pop up and say blacks are racist for keeping things "black". I've seen it happen in society and it's even happened on this board and ****NO**** I'm not talking about rap music.
"Those who want to be racist, at this point, will be racist. Those who don't, won't. There is not going to be a major paradigm shift in racism based on some new movement. Anyone with the simple ability to reason will be past that attitude."
I agree with you.
"There is a balance between "sweeping it under the rug" and "exposing the racism". Just as there is a downside to sweeping it under the rug, the downside to "exposing the racism" is that white people who aren't racist, who, like my family, came from poverty, somtimes see it as an excuse, and daily work with black people who have a very shoddy work ethic, yet are very capable of setting in relief the extreme discrimination and disadvantages from which they are able to make it."
Yes you'll have a downside to it but you have to remember where it comes from. What is the downside a product of? With the attitude you and others have CONSTANTLY shown it seems as if you forget or don't know.
"And you can't say "oh, that is just a select few" because there is very often an entitlement mentality among black people who simply give up as far as work ethics are concerned, working just hard enough to net get fired, and blaming every failure on the fact that they are black and we are white. More below.."
The majority of blacks that I know on a *personal* level don't have this mentality. Maybe in your circle yes but in my circle no. What you fail to understand/address is WHY blacks have this mentality. The majority of white people are coming off as hard working middle/poor citizens.......yeah sure........after reaping the rewards of 400+ years of rape, decimation, torture and genocide......
Stop with the perfect johnny role.
"Someone will also find an excuse to inflate it and blame it on racism, rather than extrinsic factors, such as those you mentioned, or personal shortcomings."
And someone will also find an excuse to donwplay it, not call it for what it is........It goes both ways.
"You're right. I was wrong in saying the average person would buck up and keep going. "
You're also wrong in several other assessments which I will address.
"What I meant to say was that the average black person more often blames failure on racism, instead of just accepting the natural fact that some failure is imminent in any business."
You show signs of "blind racism". Please define "the average black person". Where does this average black person live, what does the average black person eat, what does the average black person spend money on, what educational background does the average black person have? Do you know 20 "average blacks" who have started a business? Please READ your statement again. Read it a couple of times before you respond. If I were to say "the average white person shows a racist mentality" would I be correct?
"Studies show that black students more often graduate from all black colleges, and this is more than partially due to the fact that surveys have confirmed black students often generally percieve other white students as racist or discriminatory towards them, even when no evidence of racism is presented. "
What are your experiences with black students who have graduated from black colleges? What your telling me is something black people have experienced for years. Being discriminated against and being percieved as a threat for NO reason. EMMETT TILL comes to mind.
"Maybe the reason tony has problems seeing racism, even when fully submersed in a black environment, is because less of it exists than most people think."
:shaking his head:
"H we will probably never see eye to eye on this. You see racism as an obstacle to black success, and until all people fully recognize and denounce it, you believe it always will be."
I see racism as an obstruction to black success but at the end of the day blacks have to look at themselves. I don't see it as the ONLY thing holding blacks down. The only way all people will recognize and denounce it is when earth is made a utopia. So yes racism will always be a factor in society. How much of a factor depends on the person who experiences it. To be honest I take it and run with it. It drives me to make succeed. My parents didnt raise me to look for hand outs or to cry racism every time I heard nigger. They taught me to exceed and be BETTER. Why? If I don't exceed and be better I won't get what I want/desire.
"I say racism, just like God, Hate, Fear, or any other largely intangible factor, is more inflated or deflated by one's own mind."
I agree but when people are being sodomized by people of power/authority something is wrong. When an un armed man is shot 41 times something is wrong. When a mildly retarded boy is slammed on a vehicle while he is in cuffs something is wrong..........Yeah let's deflate it........
"One other factor not many people mention is the extremely thick "ebonics" that many black people from low income areas speak. It often gives some people the impression of being unprofessional, and can almost be a language barrier sometimes. People get the idea that it is intrinsically black, that black people cannot be told to speak professionally, etc. The reality is it is just a lower class thing. The same may be seen in white rednecks."
The same is seen in "white rednecks" but it isn't addressed by the majority of society. Ebonics is shunned and deemed unprofessional but *white* owners of million dollar companies market and promote it everyday. Why is that?
"Many black people looking for work honestly need to be taught to speak formally. This isn't racism, it's just common sense. If we all continue to treat the issue with kid gloves, nothing is gonna happen."
Not only speak formally but your attire should be formal as well.
I had no time to go over typos/errors I'm in a hurry.
:hgk:
since 2/3 of the PEOPLE are white, it makes sense that the same amount would be poor. i deal with this shit all the time when people try to say that one race beats their wives or rapes their daughters more than another. shit like poverty (reported) goes across the board, and you have to look at the population to see whats up. Igrew up a poor white girl in a multi-ethnic neighborhood. we were all poor dammit! some folks had to have more people living together to pay rent or wjhatever.. what do you call poor??
Nah. Black people aren't responsible for their situation. What I believe should be a priority, though, in both the minority/black and intellectual community at large, is more of a focus on self-improvement than politicization, "remembering the past", etc.
See but what is convoluted here is that many in the black community think that the way to stake the claim is to lay an empirical blame on white people and force reperations, acts of congress, etc. While I somewhat agree with the racial repreations movement, many leaders in the black community (Jackson, Sharpton), would have black people gain not through self improvement, but through a victim identity. This is wrong because it ties blacks with the past...it says to black people "stake a claim based on your victimization, and become strong". This is a logical fallacy...it can't/won't happen.
I'm not gonna say white people aren't responsible for the black situation, but I'm saying things can, and hopefully will be done differently by the black community. Major, major economic constraints are being placed on the black community by themselves, most notably the college dropout rate, unneccessary children, and the concept of the "black dollar". Am I saying this is what is keeping black people down? No. But these issues are addressed _far_ less than slavery or racism.
I don't see how White America can better address the issue of slavery/racism/history as far as Black America goes. We can talk and talk and talk about it, in the end all we will create is militant racist whites and blacks. People on both ends of the extreme will be more infuriated by the subject. White people will say shut up, get over it, end it all, and Black people will say
talk about it more, apologize more, pay me more, take shots at white people, etc. Either end of this teeter totter is problematic. In the end what _will_ benefit blacks the most is self sufficience and a personal drive, not a government bill, or a mass apology, or extra black history months.
I've seen this too. I've seen black managers who go out of their way to hire blacks. I've seen white people bitch about it. It's gonna happen. In the end I think extreme racialization hurts everyone involved. The day when we are all some mixed race, gray-skin lookin indecipherable mothafuckas is the day I celebrate.
I haven't forgotten anything. An extreme shift "any" way towards too much white power or too much black power causes problems.
Let me qualify this statement. Black culture has developed many commonalities that black people from different areas/families/etc can relate to. XianeX used to talk about how EDJ referred to himself as a "playa", "a playa like me", etc. His statement was "Fuck bein a playa, real niggas do what the fuck they feel". The meaning in this was "Fuck black america's own standards for 'keeping it real' as a black male."
Shelby Steele used to talk about this - the lack of support for individuality in the black community, evidenced by Black people's reaction to Black republicans, Black people who listen to rock, sensitive black males, etc. Very rarely on TV will you see a wounded, sensitive black man, with insecurities, who is not confident, etc. The white man wants to keep black men thinking they have to be the biggest playa, the basketball star, the rapper on 20 inches, etc. This is also supported by many in the black community. "Black people don't swim" "Black people don't hike." "Black people don't ride bikes". These kind of self-limiting standards are very much alive in the black community.
I would personally say these elements are more often among economically depressed black people, but Sothby and others have argued that deep in the black psyche there is embedded a guilt for all who don't keep it real by being poor, broke, uneducated, etc. "Being Black and Feeling Guilty: Steele". This sort of unstated rulebook is the mentality which I believe contributes to a shoddy work ethic among many black people. Don't work hard as fuck and bust your ass to succeed, just "get yours". "Ima get mine, and ima do it any way I can, preferably the way involving the least risk/personal effort." Is every black person lazy at work? Fuck no. Can any standards be applied to every black person? No.
But what I'm saying when I make "near" generalizations is observations based on cultural commonalities. And the black community has much more cohesion, and much more commonality than the white community or even other minorities in general.
Maybe. I honestly don't know. In my opinion...no. You're right generalizing in this way is impossible. But once again based on cultural commonalities and personal observation, I've seen alot of "racism" as problem encapsulation. "They don't wanna shop at a black business." "They don't want to hire a black man". This goes back into Sothby's theory on black individuality - that one must see oneself as Black first, and an individual second, and any action done to self is an action perpetrated against the black community.
The Emmet Till story is a sad one. It's likely more stories like his exist, but were never told. The flipside of the coin, though, is that tragedy occured 45, 50, 55 years ago, and it is used as an excuse today to cause division. I guess Hitler comes to mind when wondering whether to befriend a German person.
So we don't agree...but our views are close.
Stories like Amadou Diallo's continue to remind us of it, but I think positive stories about race relations, police, etc, dont get told enough. Those in power will _always_ abuse it, but on the flipside the police do help out many people. Many people were saved, helped, etc. by cops, but we don't hear about it. All we see is brutality cases.
Slang and unprofessional speech is definitely not a racial thing. It's more of a class issue. Rednecks talkin like Bubba Gump sound just as unprofessional as thick ebonics.
Because they would rather see black people being "unprofessional". White CEOs would rather keep black people rapping, dancing, and shining shoes than becoming CEOs, intellectuals, and powerful entities. (Which some already are)
Eh. Who gives a shit? We should focus more on the discussion. Fuck worryin about typos. Better to get your thoughts out.
See but what is convoluted here is that many in the black community think that the way to stake the claim is to lay an empirical blame on white people and force reperations, acts of congress, etc. While I somewhat agree with the racial repreations movement, many leaders in the black community (Jackson, Sharpton), would have black people gain not through self improvement, but through a victim identity. This is wrong because it ties blacks with the past...it says to black people "stake a claim based on your victimization, and become strong". This is a logical fallacy...it can't/won't happen.
I'm not gonna say white people aren't responsible for the black situation, but I'm saying things can, and hopefully will be done differently by the black community. Major, major economic constraints are being placed on the black community by themselves, most notably the college dropout rate, unneccessary children, and the concept of the "black dollar". Am I saying this is what is keeping black people down? No. But these issues are addressed _far_ less than slavery or racism.
I don't see how White America can better address the issue of slavery/racism/history as far as Black America goes. We can talk and talk and talk about it, in the end all we will create is militant racist whites and blacks. People on both ends of the extreme will be more infuriated by the subject. White people will say shut up, get over it, end it all, and Black people will say
talk about it more, apologize more, pay me more, take shots at white people, etc. Either end of this teeter totter is problematic. In the end what _will_ benefit blacks the most is self sufficience and a personal drive, not a government bill, or a mass apology, or extra black history months.
I've seen this too. I've seen black managers who go out of their way to hire blacks. I've seen white people bitch about it. It's gonna happen. In the end I think extreme racialization hurts everyone involved. The day when we are all some mixed race, gray-skin lookin indecipherable mothafuckas is the day I celebrate.
I haven't forgotten anything. An extreme shift "any" way towards too much white power or too much black power causes problems.
Let me qualify this statement. Black culture has developed many commonalities that black people from different areas/families/etc can relate to. XianeX used to talk about how EDJ referred to himself as a "playa", "a playa like me", etc. His statement was "Fuck bein a playa, real niggas do what the fuck they feel". The meaning in this was "Fuck black america's own standards for 'keeping it real' as a black male."
Shelby Steele used to talk about this - the lack of support for individuality in the black community, evidenced by Black people's reaction to Black republicans, Black people who listen to rock, sensitive black males, etc. Very rarely on TV will you see a wounded, sensitive black man, with insecurities, who is not confident, etc. The white man wants to keep black men thinking they have to be the biggest playa, the basketball star, the rapper on 20 inches, etc. This is also supported by many in the black community. "Black people don't swim" "Black people don't hike." "Black people don't ride bikes". These kind of self-limiting standards are very much alive in the black community.
I would personally say these elements are more often among economically depressed black people, but Sothby and others have argued that deep in the black psyche there is embedded a guilt for all who don't keep it real by being poor, broke, uneducated, etc. "Being Black and Feeling Guilty: Steele". This sort of unstated rulebook is the mentality which I believe contributes to a shoddy work ethic among many black people. Don't work hard as fuck and bust your ass to succeed, just "get yours". "Ima get mine, and ima do it any way I can, preferably the way involving the least risk/personal effort." Is every black person lazy at work? Fuck no. Can any standards be applied to every black person? No.
But what I'm saying when I make "near" generalizations is observations based on cultural commonalities. And the black community has much more cohesion, and much more commonality than the white community or even other minorities in general.
Maybe. I honestly don't know. In my opinion...no. You're right generalizing in this way is impossible. But once again based on cultural commonalities and personal observation, I've seen alot of "racism" as problem encapsulation. "They don't wanna shop at a black business." "They don't want to hire a black man". This goes back into Sothby's theory on black individuality - that one must see oneself as Black first, and an individual second, and any action done to self is an action perpetrated against the black community.
The Emmet Till story is a sad one. It's likely more stories like his exist, but were never told. The flipside of the coin, though, is that tragedy occured 45, 50, 55 years ago, and it is used as an excuse today to cause division. I guess Hitler comes to mind when wondering whether to befriend a German person.
So we don't agree...but our views are close.
Stories like Amadou Diallo's continue to remind us of it, but I think positive stories about race relations, police, etc, dont get told enough. Those in power will _always_ abuse it, but on the flipside the police do help out many people. Many people were saved, helped, etc. by cops, but we don't hear about it. All we see is brutality cases.
Slang and unprofessional speech is definitely not a racial thing. It's more of a class issue. Rednecks talkin like Bubba Gump sound just as unprofessional as thick ebonics.
Because they would rather see black people being "unprofessional". White CEOs would rather keep black people rapping, dancing, and shining shoes than becoming CEOs, intellectuals, and powerful entities. (Which some already are)
Eh. Who gives a shit? We should focus more on the discussion. Fuck worryin about typos. Better to get your thoughts out.
I really think people need to stop complaining. Fuck throwing race into it and tryin' to blame it on someone else. I've seen both black and white people come up from nothing (and when I say nothing, I mean homeless and broke). It's all about taking the innitiative and doing something about YOUR living situation. It can be done. If you wanna try and say it can't, you are either lazy or you just don't care enough to change.
ALREADY DEAD,
YOU JUST HAD TO THROW MY NAME UP IN IT, DIDN'T YOU?
YOU STRESSED, "XianeX used to talk about how EDJ referred to himself as a "playa", "a playa like me", etc. His statement was "Fuck bein a playa, real niggas do what the fuck they feel". The meaning in this was "Fuck black america's own standards for 'keeping it real' as a black male."
HE SAID THAT ONCE AND HE TOOK OFFENSE CAUSE I CHECCED HIM ON "BEIN' A PERSON WHO MINDS HIS OWN"(PLAYA-LIKE BEHAVIOR) INSTEAD OF ROOTIN' OTHAS TO HAVE OTHA PEOPLES NAME IN THEY MOUTH(UNPLAYA-LIKE BEHAVIOR).
YOU CAN'T SIT HERE AND ARgUE THAT IT IS WHAT YOU PERCEIVE, BUT I'M TELLIN' YOU IT HAD NOTHIN' TO DO WITH HIM UPHOLDIN' AN IMAgE.
YOU JUST HAD TO THROW MY NAME UP IN IT, DIDN'T YOU?
YOU STRESSED, "XianeX used to talk about how EDJ referred to himself as a "playa", "a playa like me", etc. His statement was "Fuck bein a playa, real niggas do what the fuck they feel". The meaning in this was "Fuck black america's own standards for 'keeping it real' as a black male."
HE SAID THAT ONCE AND HE TOOK OFFENSE CAUSE I CHECCED HIM ON "BEIN' A PERSON WHO MINDS HIS OWN"(PLAYA-LIKE BEHAVIOR) INSTEAD OF ROOTIN' OTHAS TO HAVE OTHA PEOPLES NAME IN THEY MOUTH(UNPLAYA-LIKE BEHAVIOR).
YOU CAN'T SIT HERE AND ARgUE THAT IT IS WHAT YOU PERCEIVE, BUT I'M TELLIN' YOU IT HAD NOTHIN' TO DO WITH HIM UPHOLDIN' AN IMAgE.