Occupy Wall Street Protest

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Dec 17, 2004
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#41
this article hits the nail pretty right on the head:

Occupy Wall Street: A Story without Heroes
Mises Daily: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 by Anthony Gregory

The "Occupy Wall Street" movement is spreading. Protests have appeared in Los Angeles and Washington, DC. The drama has become palpable, featuring a march on LA's city hall, confrontations with police, and mass arrests.

In light of such a spectacle, those who highly value the role of ideas in social change are tempted to root for one side or the other. They wish to see their own ideology reflected in prominent people and institutions, and in any clash it is tempting to seek a hero. It is no fun to be neutral when history is being made.

Some who see the protesters as a bunch of whiny young leftists opposing the great symbols of American capitalism will be tempted circumstantially to side with Wall Street. Yet much of the anger against Wall Street is justified if misdirected, even reflecting a vaguely classical-liberal class consciousness. In cahoots with the politicians, these giant firms are indeed ripping off the middle class and poorer Americans. Today's political economy resembles some form of fascism more than the free-enterprise system, and of the businesses with a hand in colluding with the state in advancement of corporatism, those being targeted by the protesters for special animus are probably among the guiltiest. Some of the activists, waving signs in opposition to bailouts, war, and police abuses, are carrying a libertarian message.

But overall the protesters' message is too vague and heterogeneous — at best — to elicit much enthusiasm. As in the tea parties to which it has been compared, many in this movement are condemning a nebulous conception of the status quo without much of an inspiring alternative vision.

It gets worse. Although there is no single ideology uniting the movement, it does seem to have a general philosophical thrust, and not a very good one at that. OccupyWallStreet.org has a list of demands, and while the website does not represent all of the protesters, one could safely bet that it lines up with the views of most of them: A "living-wage" guarantee for workers and the unemployed, universal healthcare, free college for everyone, a ban on fossil fuels, a trillion dollars in new infrastructure, another trillion in "ecological restoration," racial and gender "rights," election reform, universal debt forgiveness, a ban on credit reporting agencies, and more power for the unions. Out of over a dozen demands there is only one I agree with — open borders — and, ironically, many on Wall Street probably favor that as well.

All in all, this wish list is a terrible recipe for moving far down the road toward socialism. On the way to achieving these goals, totalitarian controls on the population would be necessary. Some of these demands are merely horrible ideas that would injure the economy severely — such as the huge expansion of public infrastructure. But others are so fancifully utopian — such as a living wage guaranteed to all, especially when combined with free immigration — that their attempted implementation would confront the many disasters and horrors we have seen in every nation that has seriously attempted socialism. Such policies would vastly expand the government, including its manifestations in the corporate state and police power that these protesters find so unsavory. All of the corruption and brutality they think they oppose are symptoms of the same essential political ideology they favor.

Indeed, the true members of the ruling class have nothing to fear from these protests, which on balance strengthen the power elite, whether the activists get their demands or not. This is because they do not have a coherent program for true liberty. The same principle behind freely living where and how you please and voicing one's opinions without harassment from the government underlies the freedom to engage in short selling, hostile takeovers, mergers, and speculation. Just as important, these protesters fail to understand that the market economy that they want the state to conquer is the principal engine of prosperity.
"All of the corruption and brutality they think they oppose are symptoms of the same essential political ideology they favor."

To be fair, some of the protesters would probably not sign on to this kind of wish list. But there are also many among them who would go even further in the state-socialist direction. In any event, any movement filled with people who want this much out of government is bound to fail in addressing what is wrong with today's system.

Despite their ideological problems, however, most of these protesters have been peaceful, which brings us to the next party to the drama that we certainly cannot cheer: the police. In New York, they have corralled people into fenced-off areas, indiscriminately pepper sprayed them without provocation, and slammed at least one peaceful protester's head into a car. Seven hundred protesters walked onto the Brooklyn Bridge, many or most of them apparently thinking the police wanted them to take this path, only to find themselves arrested. Insofar as the protesters see their cause as one against institutional violence and exploitation, the police are doing more to bolster this narrative than the activists themselves.

It took such outrages for the mainstream media to give much coverage to these protests, and perhaps this would have never happened if we weren't in an age of social media and ubiquitous cell-phone cameras. The press has surely been another party undeserving of our support. Given the media's hodgepodge of biases — it has generally given favorable coverage toward economic collectivism, the political status quo, leftist reformers, as well as the police — most will look upon any coverage they do see with the preconceived assumption that it is slanted to make the people they already don't like look better than they are.

As for the Obama administration, it has so far been silent on the whole affair. Its partisans, however, have begun using these incidents to shore up support for the agenda of social democracy and higher taxes. MoveOn.org, essentially an arm of the Democratic Party, has been playing up the protests much as institutions tied to Republicans have played up the tea parties, in both cases offering very little reason to believe that their favored politicians would actually enact reforms of a radically different nature from the program of the partisan opposition. While Obama can push through more taxes, more regulations, more spending, and more government, the protesters will ultimately not be satisfied with this. For those who see government as an end in itself, even Obama is too moderate a state socialist by their estimation. And for those who seek to use social democracy as a means to a lofty end — to abolish privilege, corporatism, imperialism, or police violence — they will face great disappointment in the years to come, as Obama, a Goldman Sachs asset and enthusiastic warmonger, embodies most of what they despise about the American system. Most fundamentally, since the ideal of social democracy contains the seeds of the very exploitation they oppose, they are pushing a contradictory political agenda that can never satiate them.

Some have called for the tea-party conservatives to join the protesters in New York and across the country. If their only uniting principle were directionless opposition to the status quo, this would not be enough to excite libertarians, much less would it be a formula for positive change. Ideally, there would be enough classical liberals in the streets, opposed to war, state corporatism, state socialism, police brutality, the whole Obama domestic agenda, and US foreign policy. We could fantasize about that being a rallying point for leftists and conservative populists to stand behind. But given the ideological landscape of the United States, this would be just that: a fantasy.


A movement finely focused on resisting Washington's corporatism and bailouts, however, could potentially be much stronger and wider, bringing together at least some of the anti-Obama Right, elements of the anti–Wall Street Left, and libertarians too. The conservatives would have to agree to leave their anti-immigrant and prowar signs at home, and the lefties would have to put aside their demands for national healthcare and prohibitions on gasoline.

Such a movement, involving the better people on both sides, could potentially make a difference, but it would require a far more cooperative spirit than we're likely to see any time soon. With progressives siding firmly with Obama as he demonizes the tea parties, and conservatives cheering the cops on as they beat the Wall Street occupiers into submission, it would seem that more than economic theory separates these disaffected groups of dissidents. Call it the culture war or partisanship, but whatever it is that divides Americans against one another — distracting them from the real problem in Washington, DC — is also no hero in this story.
 
Nov 18, 2010
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#43
I swear half of this site is retarded.

Regardless if this is a bunch of hippie fucks they are fighting for your country's future. How fucked does your country have to get before you realize it is going down the toilet? You see your dollar drop and drop and drop, well thank Bernanke of the Federal Reserve cuz he keeps printing money even though every single economic analyst at THIS point is saying don't.

Do you guys even know that the Federal Reserve is a private organization that prints your money? Do you realize that logically with America's debt, currency inflation and interest from the World Bank it will be virtually impossible for your country to ever get out of debt?

China is just about to take America's top spot in less than a decade but you dumb asses talk shit like "wall street is america, these losers should go die." Seriously, no cliche, go read a fucking book.
 
Aug 24, 2003
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#48
expect this to start getting mainstream media attention

however they will continually refer to the protesters and movement as a whole as "unorganized", "unclear", "misguided", etc
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#50
i agree the ppl protesting are a bunch of privileged new york/san francisco style yuppies just doing their wps

BUT what theyre fighting against is fully worthy of protest and i feel ppl should give them props rather than keep hating on them
those fucks think Wall Street has on an invisible cape and goes around doing what it wants under DC's radar. the tree huggers dont seem to realize that their main man (Obama) is one of the cats (like their hated Bush) that lets Wall Street do this. where's their anti Obama signs? no where. cus they're ignorant sheep way too left to see the left is also the problem.

fuck'em and their unorganized protest and the rest of the band wagon jumpin protests around the country.

and yeah, sit on the bridge to block traffic so all the working class citizens your supposedly "fighting the power" for cant get to work in a descent manner. that makes perfect sence.
 

WXS STOMP3R

SENIOR GANG MEMBER
Feb 27, 2006
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#51
those fucks think Wall Street has on an invisible cape and goes around doing what it wants under DC's radar. the tree huggers dont seem to realize that their main man (Obama) is one of the cats (like their hated Bush) that lets Wall Street do this. where's their anti Obama signs? no where. cus they're ignorant sheep way too left to see the left is also the problem.

fuck'em and their unorganized protest and the rest of the band wagon jumpin protests around the country.

and yeah, sit on the bridge to block traffic so all the working class citizens your supposedly "fighting the power" for cant get to work in a descent manner. that makes perfect sence.
IF YOU COULD DO IT YOUR WAY...HOW WOULD YOU GO ABOUT IT?
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#52
i would first sit down and think logically.

they're going after Wall Street and letting DC be. DC is the main problem. not Wall Street. its the same thing the Tea Party is doing, but the Tea Party is actually going after the government, so that makes them the racists cus Obama is "black". Obama is in power so the protestors aint even tryna hear all that. their Messiah cant do any wrong. if Bush was in office i guarentee you those Wall St. signs would be kickn it with anti Bush signs.


when theres a bad ass little boy always getting his way, who do we look at? the parents. straighten the parents up, then the kid will have a different road to walk on. over look the parents and just focus on the kid, you aint handling the actual problem...the parents. DC is the parents, Wall St. is the kid.
 
Dec 17, 2004
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#53
i would first sit down and think logically.

they're going after Wall Street and letting DC be. DC is the main problem. not Wall Street. its the same thing the Tea Party is doing, but the Tea Party is actually going after the government, so that makes them the racists cus Obama is "black". Obama is in power so the protestors aint even tryna hear all that. their Messiah cant do any wrong. if Bush was in office i guarentee you those Wall St. signs would be kickn it with anti Bush signs.


when theres a bad ass little boy always getting his way, who do we look at? the parents. straighten the parents up, then the kid will have a different road to walk on. over look the parents and just focus on the kid, you aint handling the actual problem...the parents. DC is the parents, Wall St. is the kid.
damn blud. if you actually believe dc is the parents and wall street is the kid...well i guess thats what you believe. only way i could maybe agree with you is if the parent kid relationship you're talking about is like the one with shawn wayans in dont be a menace

also, i dont know how many of the ppl who are firmly against the financial banking system and corporate greed are "obama lovers." a lot of them are against everyone whose been in govt...including bush and barry. the democratic party for political reasons is lightweight showing support for them to try to gain the support of disenchanted americans (which are naturally going to be a lot of ppl when the economy is down), but this doesn't mean that many of the protesters themselves don't know that obama is just as much part of the problem. one of the spokespersons for the movement said their anger was also directed toward the govt (meaning current govt...meaning obama).

this is a little beyond republican/democrat, bush/obama etc. i gotta say though, your rhetoric sounds a lot like that of the pundits from fox news
 
Apr 26, 2006
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#54
There's so much wrong with this country. I still think it's a wonderful place to live, but it has so much more potential to be better. Greed and this fucking politicians are holding us back.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#56
this is a little beyond republican/democrat, bush/obama etc. i gotta say though, your rhetoric sounds a lot like that of the pundits from fox news
ill take the "foxs news retoric". im far from a janky (R) but if your for this protest than it makes sence to throw that at me. they would all throw that at me. boo fuckin hoo.

you act like they're all there for the same purpose. they havent even solidified a stance. its just "cool" to protest. sure, some of them, a small portion, realize Obama has alot to do with this. but a majority are Obama fans. your too much on some MSNBC to see that breh.

you took my parent/kid analogy too literly. Wall St does what it does because DC lets them. Wall St marching is pussy shit. they wont march in front of the White House. the boss is in there.
 
Dec 17, 2004
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#58
ill take the "foxs news retoric". im far from a janky (R) but if your for this protest than it makes sence to throw that at me. they would all throw that at me. boo fuckin hoo.

you act like they're all there for the same purpose. they havent even solidified a stance. its just "cool" to protest. sure, some of them, a small portion, realize Obama has alot to do with this. but a majority are Obama fans. your too much on some MSNBC to see that breh.

you took my parent/kid analogy too literly. Wall St does what it does because DC lets them. Wall St marching is pussy shit. they wont march in front of the White House. the boss is in there.
i dont know how much im for it, simply bc i feel like even if the kids got their way (which i cant imagine)...our shit will still be fucked at the end of the day. but if i had to lean one way or another, im more in support of them than against them. its like watching a group of kids try and put out a fire, even though you know that fire is way too ferocious for them to have a realistic chance of putting it out. but at the end of the day i say let the rascals cook and see how far they can get. i'd rather support the kids and their effort rather than support the fire and all the damage its caused.

i understand theres a lot of unorganization, and theres variation as to what some ppl are more against than others, and theres no coherent specific goal and approach to a solution. but theres a general commonality which is that 99.9% these protesters are not happy with the way the power elite have influenced this country through their own self interest of enlarging their profits at the expense of the common ppl (their whole "we are the 99%" slogan suggesting they are angry at the 1% power elite).

to be honest, i dont know how many are obama fans or not. i dont think that matters too much though. maybe you're right and "the majority" are. but i wonder how you've come to this conclusion.

i see your point though, to go after the govt instead. but i think going after the actual sources of power rather than the puppets doing their dance is a nice symbolic move. ultimately both the sources of power and the govt need to be went after

but like i said, im not expecting this to actually save humanity or anything. maybe if this shit gets big enough and turns into rioting or something itll give us some fun stuff to watch and talk about
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#60
i draw my conclusion that its primarily Obama peeps cus its just obviouse breh. demographics along with the signs along with where they're at along with what media is covering them hard along with the union getting involved.

i understand what your saying about kids putting out a fire. but wouldnt it be smarter to go after the guy with the gasoline can and box of matches? the fire they're tryna put out wont go away if dude stil has access to his gasoline can and box of matches. but like i said. Obamas the dude so they wont take it there, for many reasons. if Bush or an R was in power, they'd be raising hell on Wall St and DC. bet that.