Irish Holocaust?
- Thread starter KillaKali
- Start date
When Irish came to this country they were as low (in the minds of locals) as blacks. They were the bottom rung of society. They were compared to a people that they had NO knowledge of, there werent any black people in Ireland in the 1800's. They were forced into the "ghettos" of New York and Boston mainly and lived along side blacks and other immigrants that weren't WASP.
They fought the perceptions that many held about them. Like ANY group of people, they considered the problems that faced their own people the most important. Irish were considered about problems that faced other Irish, just like blacks were concerned about blacks, Germans-Germans, and Americans-Americas ect. ect. ect. They were determined to not allow Americans to treat them like the British did. So they fought the against the term "nigger" and "mick" and "paddy" that they were called. They concerned themselves with bettering their people. And they succeeded after years of struggle. They didnt have time to fight against slavery they were fighting "No Irish Need Apply" signs that hung in every window and the horrible living conditions they were forced live in. To say that Irish are a racist people is just wrong. It is more accurate to say that they are firstly concerned about other Irish. They came from a country were they were oppressed by a foreign people and wouldn't allow it 2 happen again. Im sure they said some unflattering things about black people but not because they hated them but because they hated the prospect of continuing to be treated like black people were in this country. They had to break the connection and misrepresentation that Americans were making between them and black people, the things people thought about black people was obviously bullshit, but it would have been pointless for Irish to fight that, all they could do was fight the comparisons and the way they were being treated.
BUT anyone who knows the story of Fredrick Douglass knows that he was inspired to escape slavery by two Irish men he met while helping them (he offered to) work in i think it was Baltimore. He later went to Ireland and made a moving speech about the similarities between African-Americans and Irish people. Heres a mural of Fredrick Douglass in Ireland, and there are several around the country. He is proof that not all Irish were against black people and somehow were against abolition.
Irish are naturally opposed to oppression having been through it for hundreds of years. Thats why many support the PLO, Bosnian's and other peoples fight for freedom.
Im not defending the draft riots that took place in New York or any other negative thing that may have taken place between blacks and Irish in America, im just tryin to explain that it wasnt based on hate or racism but it was due to the 2nd class status that both groups faced in this country and how both groups fought against it.
They fought the perceptions that many held about them. Like ANY group of people, they considered the problems that faced their own people the most important. Irish were considered about problems that faced other Irish, just like blacks were concerned about blacks, Germans-Germans, and Americans-Americas ect. ect. ect. They were determined to not allow Americans to treat them like the British did. So they fought the against the term "nigger" and "mick" and "paddy" that they were called. They concerned themselves with bettering their people. And they succeeded after years of struggle. They didnt have time to fight against slavery they were fighting "No Irish Need Apply" signs that hung in every window and the horrible living conditions they were forced live in. To say that Irish are a racist people is just wrong. It is more accurate to say that they are firstly concerned about other Irish. They came from a country were they were oppressed by a foreign people and wouldn't allow it 2 happen again. Im sure they said some unflattering things about black people but not because they hated them but because they hated the prospect of continuing to be treated like black people were in this country. They had to break the connection and misrepresentation that Americans were making between them and black people, the things people thought about black people was obviously bullshit, but it would have been pointless for Irish to fight that, all they could do was fight the comparisons and the way they were being treated.
BUT anyone who knows the story of Fredrick Douglass knows that he was inspired to escape slavery by two Irish men he met while helping them (he offered to) work in i think it was Baltimore. He later went to Ireland and made a moving speech about the similarities between African-Americans and Irish people. Heres a mural of Fredrick Douglass in Ireland, and there are several around the country. He is proof that not all Irish were against black people and somehow were against abolition.
Irish are naturally opposed to oppression having been through it for hundreds of years. Thats why many support the PLO, Bosnian's and other peoples fight for freedom.
Im not defending the draft riots that took place in New York or any other negative thing that may have taken place between blacks and Irish in America, im just tryin to explain that it wasnt based on hate or racism but it was due to the 2nd class status that both groups faced in this country and how both groups fought against it.
We became "White" by years of hard work and doing any job we could get and slowly gained respect and acceptance. We realized that if you want to be accepted in this country you need to become active in the political process. It also didnt hurt that the Anti-catholic setiment slowly faded away in America. We proved that the "monkey" and "stupid illiterate paddy" stereotypes were false. To say that it only came around because Irish stepped on the backs of blacks is wrong.
thats not the only reason you're right, I don't want to speak down on the Irish but you should read about early irish gangs gangsters and see how that political power came about. Before Public enemy came out they were showing shit on the history channel about how the Irish came to political power in Ny and boston, and Irish gangsters.
Hard work sounds nice, but the truth is every community who is in a power position in this country came about through the marriage of gangsterism, corruption and political power, because the power structure is not just gonna let you get somewhere because you work hard, or else blacks would be one of the preeminent groups in America (and this is pre 70's blacks for you slick mouth mufuckas).
Hard work sounds nice, but the truth is every community who is in a power position in this country came about through the marriage of gangsterism, corruption and political power, because the power structure is not just gonna let you get somewhere because you work hard, or else blacks would be one of the preeminent groups in America (and this is pre 70's blacks for you slick mouth mufuckas).
I know all about Irish Gangs. The Irish started gangs in this country. And i also know that people in political power saw these gangs as a opportunity and used it to their advantage ie. Tammany Hall in New York. It was all about getting the Irish vote. But see us Irish are smart, you scratch my back and ill scratch yours, if you want our vote your going to need to improve conditions for us in this country. But the majority of Irish were lower class, hardworking people, not gangsters
I think Irish people and black people have a whole lot in common with their history and its a shame that they havent been able to as successful as a whole like the Irish have in this country. I just think its false to say that Irish people are a racist group that used black people to become successful in this country. I respect your opinion tho and your coming at me respectfully and i appreciate that, especially with a sensitive issue like race.
Case in point. THE KENNEDY FAMILY! You're absolutely right.
I wouldn't say the Irish stepped on the back of any race to get ahead, based on race. My guess is, they were sick of people fuckin' with 'em and they did whatever they had to do, and went over whoever they had to go over, to get their due respect.
Coondogg...PREACH MUTHAFUCKA! I had respect for you before, but now I REALLY respect you my dude. Way to speak on the history.
I wouldn't say the Irish stepped on the back of any race to get ahead, based on race. My guess is, they were sick of people fuckin' with 'em and they did whatever they had to do, and went over whoever they had to go over, to get their due respect.
Coondogg...PREACH MUTHAFUCKA! I had respect for you before, but now I REALLY respect you my dude. Way to speak on the history.
I'm saying I don't think it was their intention to single out any race. I think the Irish would have done what they did to anybody given the circumstances. They were just sick of being walked on, and would have done whatever they could to rise above the negative conditions...no matter who was at the bottom with them.