GANG INJUNCTION HEARING @ CITY HALL 2M MORNING
- Thread starter LadyTragik
- Start date
Lady Trajik, I wanted to thank you for you point of view and work regarding this issue in San Francisco. Its not often we find many people around here who will actually SPEAK on something in public, give an honest point of view, and feel they are doing the right thing in society. Obviously the roots of the causes we speak about need to be addressed. The issue is that we haven’t had legislature or a leader who can address it. I do not believe it is a conspiracy by corporations to take over neighborhoods, nor is it white government officials attempting to hold down the black and brown populations, but actual practicality and implementation that allows things like gang injunctions to be taken into place.
Take for example the ethnic diversity in the city, the distribution in wealth of the city, the interests of many people who live in The City, and people see that IT IS DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to get anything done here (building permits, envoirnmental issues, 49ers stadium, free wireless internet, etc). Citizens in the lower-middle class neighborhoods want something done to protect them from crime and mayham on the streets. The government for the most part has met these requests with increases in educational funds and more hard line policing. But with the hard line policing comes instances of “cowboy policing” and allegations of abuse of power and racism. Maybe this increased policing helps, maybe it does not. Then the lower-middle class neighborhoods want less policing. The City is left with the question: what do we do? By some of the imformation I have read in this thread, it sounds as if some people here actually believe people in City Hall are snickering at murders and crime around the city! These people were elected to help solve these issues, and their results will be determined by whether or not they keed their jobs!
But what alternatives are there to solve THE VIOLENCE already happening in the streets? What is the legislation your group is proposing? The example of police abuse you cite did not involve the gang task force OR the gang injunction so why should it be anymore relevant than a typical abuse of force case? (see http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/c/a/2007/12/11/BA9ATRSCB.DTL). There will always be instances of allege police abuse. Police hold a monopoly on violence by definition and at times illegally overstep their boundries. In no way do I condone this, but being a cop and laying your life on the line 50 hours a week is not exactly an easy job. Cops aren’t exactly easy people to find. What can be done to hold police more accountable? Would suspensions and firings help or hurt the fight against crime in the neighborhood? The SFPD is incredibly short handed today:
“So is the shortage of officers. Delagnes says that in the next four years 580 San Francisco officers - one-fourth of the police force - will be eligible for retirement. In addition, the city is 250 to 275 officers short of the total of 1,971 that was mandated by city voters in 1994."Add to that," Delagnes says, "the 25 cops we lose each year to other agencies and the 10 to 15 we lose to disability and whatnot," and the total is close to 900. No wonder the department is trying to get retirement-age cops to stay on the job.Delagnes says there are 11,000 unfilled law enforcement jobs in California. The shortage of candidates, combined with the demand to hire, has left departments competing for recruits." http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...BA5DT9OIS.DTL&hw=SFPD+shortage&sn=001&sc=1000
Also, you said your next step is “to push for a new legislation which includes a clear opt-out process as well as fair criteria for people to be added to the list.” But “Actually, Herrera said, attempting to contain his exasperation, the city attorney did propose opt-outs - "detailed, specific recommendations," he said. "We proposed those, but the court (which approved the injunction plan) took them out." (see http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/c/a/2007/12/11/BA9ATRSCB.DTL). It sounds like the City is on the same page as you, so why does it sound from your point of view you are in opposition? Does the City plan to rewrite these guidelines?
My last comment is regarding the video you posted on YouTube on some of the comments you made. I believe it is dangerous to suggest that this matter (gang-injunctions) is somehow tied to the lineage of the Black Panther Party, the Chicano movement, a secret agenda by Lennar Corp. to wipe out black and brown neighborhoods to build there, and/or a plot by government officials to do so. I see your protest and this matter as completely unrelated and that by tying emotions from other civil rights fights from other eras you are counterproductively adding fuel to an already sensitive fire. You are of course entitled to you own opinion, but I see nothing different from this mentality than that of a far right conservative brainwashing children that Islam is the devil and all Muslims want to see the death of America. You are teaching 14 year olds this way of thinking and it is unfair for them not to see this in a well rounded explanation (ie role of police in society, shortage of police in San Francisco, city politics, availability of housing and rent control, responsibility of non-government entities and family structure, etc. etc.) Are you addressing these issues when you get these children to be in your videos and testify?
My personal beliefs is that putting a gang injunction in a neighborhood is like putting a band-aid on crime. It will work in the short term, in the long term it will just allow another gang to get stronger and move in, or more recruitment from the injuncted gang to boost numbers. It will keep things nice and calm for a short time, but eventually does nothing to solve the ills of society we have. I think the most realistic and important step to solve the problem is to help the Youth avoid making the wrong choice to be in a gang in the first place, and that by providing competitive activities like sports or liberal arts programs to children after school they will develop new skills, gain a perspective on life bigger than the block and meet children from other neighborhoods and help people from all areas gain a more tolerant perspective on life. There should be computer and retraining programs and mentors for Youth in the beginning and mid-stages of gangbanging so that they can devote their free time to self-imporvement rather than hanging out on the street.
Take for example the ethnic diversity in the city, the distribution in wealth of the city, the interests of many people who live in The City, and people see that IT IS DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to get anything done here (building permits, envoirnmental issues, 49ers stadium, free wireless internet, etc). Citizens in the lower-middle class neighborhoods want something done to protect them from crime and mayham on the streets. The government for the most part has met these requests with increases in educational funds and more hard line policing. But with the hard line policing comes instances of “cowboy policing” and allegations of abuse of power and racism. Maybe this increased policing helps, maybe it does not. Then the lower-middle class neighborhoods want less policing. The City is left with the question: what do we do? By some of the imformation I have read in this thread, it sounds as if some people here actually believe people in City Hall are snickering at murders and crime around the city! These people were elected to help solve these issues, and their results will be determined by whether or not they keed their jobs!
But what alternatives are there to solve THE VIOLENCE already happening in the streets? What is the legislation your group is proposing? The example of police abuse you cite did not involve the gang task force OR the gang injunction so why should it be anymore relevant than a typical abuse of force case? (see http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/c/a/2007/12/11/BA9ATRSCB.DTL). There will always be instances of allege police abuse. Police hold a monopoly on violence by definition and at times illegally overstep their boundries. In no way do I condone this, but being a cop and laying your life on the line 50 hours a week is not exactly an easy job. Cops aren’t exactly easy people to find. What can be done to hold police more accountable? Would suspensions and firings help or hurt the fight against crime in the neighborhood? The SFPD is incredibly short handed today:
“So is the shortage of officers. Delagnes says that in the next four years 580 San Francisco officers - one-fourth of the police force - will be eligible for retirement. In addition, the city is 250 to 275 officers short of the total of 1,971 that was mandated by city voters in 1994."Add to that," Delagnes says, "the 25 cops we lose each year to other agencies and the 10 to 15 we lose to disability and whatnot," and the total is close to 900. No wonder the department is trying to get retirement-age cops to stay on the job.Delagnes says there are 11,000 unfilled law enforcement jobs in California. The shortage of candidates, combined with the demand to hire, has left departments competing for recruits." http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...BA5DT9OIS.DTL&hw=SFPD+shortage&sn=001&sc=1000
Also, you said your next step is “to push for a new legislation which includes a clear opt-out process as well as fair criteria for people to be added to the list.” But “Actually, Herrera said, attempting to contain his exasperation, the city attorney did propose opt-outs - "detailed, specific recommendations," he said. "We proposed those, but the court (which approved the injunction plan) took them out." (see http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/c/a/2007/12/11/BA9ATRSCB.DTL). It sounds like the City is on the same page as you, so why does it sound from your point of view you are in opposition? Does the City plan to rewrite these guidelines?
My last comment is regarding the video you posted on YouTube on some of the comments you made. I believe it is dangerous to suggest that this matter (gang-injunctions) is somehow tied to the lineage of the Black Panther Party, the Chicano movement, a secret agenda by Lennar Corp. to wipe out black and brown neighborhoods to build there, and/or a plot by government officials to do so. I see your protest and this matter as completely unrelated and that by tying emotions from other civil rights fights from other eras you are counterproductively adding fuel to an already sensitive fire. You are of course entitled to you own opinion, but I see nothing different from this mentality than that of a far right conservative brainwashing children that Islam is the devil and all Muslims want to see the death of America. You are teaching 14 year olds this way of thinking and it is unfair for them not to see this in a well rounded explanation (ie role of police in society, shortage of police in San Francisco, city politics, availability of housing and rent control, responsibility of non-government entities and family structure, etc. etc.) Are you addressing these issues when you get these children to be in your videos and testify?
My personal beliefs is that putting a gang injunction in a neighborhood is like putting a band-aid on crime. It will work in the short term, in the long term it will just allow another gang to get stronger and move in, or more recruitment from the injuncted gang to boost numbers. It will keep things nice and calm for a short time, but eventually does nothing to solve the ills of society we have. I think the most realistic and important step to solve the problem is to help the Youth avoid making the wrong choice to be in a gang in the first place, and that by providing competitive activities like sports or liberal arts programs to children after school they will develop new skills, gain a perspective on life bigger than the block and meet children from other neighborhoods and help people from all areas gain a more tolerant perspective on life. There should be computer and retraining programs and mentors for Youth in the beginning and mid-stages of gangbanging so that they can devote their free time to self-imporvement rather than hanging out on the street.
You can THINK or NOT THINK whatever you want, but you OBVIOUSLY don't KNOW shit about our educational system, especially here in california, and how FUCKED UP and under staffed/qualified/paid our teachers(especially in high school) are.
atleast 40%of our MIDDLE SCHOOL algebra teachers don't have degrees in math(or any science field of study) and are teaching math or science.
our high schools, ha, they are in a much mroe worse state, we have atleast 60% of our high schools with teachers that are NOT qualified to teach math(as in they, again, have degrees outside of the science field of study) and we are understaffed in science and math teachers in all of california.
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=1199&page=46
http://www.ed.gov/inits/Math/glenn/ClewellForcier.pdf
and i got about 20 other reports/articles/columns on this.
Well, before school education, it starts in the home I think. Like Lunch_Box said, cultural values. We got to learn about ethics, morals, values by our parents. Teachers can certainly teach that, but kids listen and and look up to those family figures first. It doesn't hurt to have good teachers who care though. School is indeed the second branch of learning, first home, and then school. Unfortunately, so many schools are breeding grounds for gangs and other negative shit. Homeschooling is really not a bad or wierd option anymore. Might actually help keep your kids away from all that shit.
Yup, and the lack of funds ain't an excuse. There's always a way to find decent looking clothing for cheap or even free if you borrow or it's given to you. And if you still can't afford it, there's always ways to raise money or just simply ASK. I'm sure there's someone running this thing that can gather enough money to supply all these kids with decent clothes.
yea well, ya see, i grew up in a really bad home, my mom wasn't THERE to teach me shit about moral, ethics or values.
she told me, clean up after you eat, and don't make too much of a mess when she gets home.
her boyfriend stayed home all day....:ermm:
other than that she was MIA, my dad too.
a lot of kids go through this.
lol
so school became my place, where i finally shined. i loved it, even when there was fights, drama and everything, it was still great.
and after her boyfriend started tryin to pull pedo on my little sisters, it became my safe haven, the place where i knew my sisters and i were safe.
i got to learn about things that made better argue with others about issues that i found important, and connect the idea of how our building was made to the geometry on th epaper...
this is how school should feel.
thats it.
whether you come from a 'good' home or 'bad' home
she told me, clean up after you eat, and don't make too much of a mess when she gets home.
her boyfriend stayed home all day....:ermm:
other than that she was MIA, my dad too.
a lot of kids go through this.
lol
so school became my place, where i finally shined. i loved it, even when there was fights, drama and everything, it was still great.
and after her boyfriend started tryin to pull pedo on my little sisters, it became my safe haven, the place where i knew my sisters and i were safe.
i got to learn about things that made better argue with others about issues that i found important, and connect the idea of how our building was made to the geometry on th epaper...
this is how school should feel.
thats it.
whether you come from a 'good' home or 'bad' home
you don't know shit about the education system. you tried to say that your math degree (which you haven't recieved yet due to "testing problems") would get you not only an engineering job, but one that pays bank. LOL
the first thing you cite is an exerpt from a book written in 1989 about teaching arithmetic in elementary school.
the second thing is a guide for recruiting math and scence teachers. it had some studies that supposedly showed a lack of science and math teachers.
neither source acknowledged cultural values as any kind of factor in scholastic achievement.
a monkey could teach elementary school arithmetic. algebra does not require any advanced teaching. most high school level teaching doesn't even need a teacher with a degree. the only courses i can think of that could require it are calculus and physics. with schools in the hood - where the focus is on the basic courses required for graduation - the need for math and science teachers with advanced degrees is even less.
more teachers with better qualifications would no doubt help the public education situation, but there some other important factors involved that need to be taken into consideration.
the first thing you cite is an exerpt from a book written in 1989 about teaching arithmetic in elementary school.
the second thing is a guide for recruiting math and scence teachers. it had some studies that supposedly showed a lack of science and math teachers.
neither source acknowledged cultural values as any kind of factor in scholastic achievement.
a monkey could teach elementary school arithmetic. algebra does not require any advanced teaching. most high school level teaching doesn't even need a teacher with a degree. the only courses i can think of that could require it are calculus and physics. with schools in the hood - where the focus is on the basic courses required for graduation - the need for math and science teachers with advanced degrees is even less.
more teachers with better qualifications would no doubt help the public education situation, but there some other important factors involved that need to be taken into consideration.
you right as fuck...i was walkin down mission few weeks ago saturday night, and i'm with a dude from work...he keeps saying how they need to clean this area up,it's ghetto, dirty nasty...group of dudes start walking towards us just on their way, and he gets nervous as hell, talking about "aww man, now look" dudes come up i throw a "what's good blood" they say whats up back and their on their way
i told him, this ain't your neighborhood, so when you're here, be respectful
i told him, this ain't your neighborhood, so when you're here, be respectful
those are just a few things i'm reading right now.
everything else i've been reading on, and are more recent are either only accessed through my school with a library card number and pin, or you have to order the pdf's from a network, i'll list the names of the articles and reports i have on file, i just cant transfer them publicly.
and yes, a math degree is required for a career in engineering. and i've looked up the averages for those jobs and they are much higher than someone who is going into teaching.
and i'm not WAITING on math classes that i haven't passed in order to graduate, i am indeed a freshmen..my choices are wide open, and i got a lot of time...so again, you are judging, when you don't know the situation at hand...
a monkey CAN'T teach arithmetic, and shouldn't same with teachers that don't know shit about math.
this is where shit is going wrong, we have teachers that also grew up not liking math, never really getting the hang of it cause they got a degree in something else, and then teach middle school or high school and still don' tknow the subject...its just a cycle of bullshit mathematics, and barely any schools incorporate ideas from life into mathematics(im not talkin about those lame ass word problems)...i'm talkin pythagoreans theorem and his trial and death....and how it could be used in the simplest ways
and your assumption that 'hood' schools should only be preoccupied with acquiring teachers that only know the basics of basic is continuing this cycle of half-ass education, and discouragement from school....and therefore i would say you don't give two fucks about givin a fair chance to EVERY kid.
why can't 'hood' schools be expectant of highly qualified teachers, just like the predominately rich asian and white schools expect? what makes these kids more deserving than 'hood' kids, in my sense of deserving, i'd think 'hood' kids, or people who have seen, life, death and struggle for life in 3D deserve a shot at a true education, and continue on to fully utilize their knowledge.
everything else i've been reading on, and are more recent are either only accessed through my school with a library card number and pin, or you have to order the pdf's from a network, i'll list the names of the articles and reports i have on file, i just cant transfer them publicly.
and yes, a math degree is required for a career in engineering. and i've looked up the averages for those jobs and they are much higher than someone who is going into teaching.
and i'm not WAITING on math classes that i haven't passed in order to graduate, i am indeed a freshmen..my choices are wide open, and i got a lot of time...so again, you are judging, when you don't know the situation at hand...
a monkey CAN'T teach arithmetic, and shouldn't same with teachers that don't know shit about math.
this is where shit is going wrong, we have teachers that also grew up not liking math, never really getting the hang of it cause they got a degree in something else, and then teach middle school or high school and still don' tknow the subject...its just a cycle of bullshit mathematics, and barely any schools incorporate ideas from life into mathematics(im not talkin about those lame ass word problems)...i'm talkin pythagoreans theorem and his trial and death....and how it could be used in the simplest ways
and your assumption that 'hood' schools should only be preoccupied with acquiring teachers that only know the basics of basic is continuing this cycle of half-ass education, and discouragement from school....and therefore i would say you don't give two fucks about givin a fair chance to EVERY kid.
why can't 'hood' schools be expectant of highly qualified teachers, just like the predominately rich asian and white schools expect? what makes these kids more deserving than 'hood' kids, in my sense of deserving, i'd think 'hood' kids, or people who have seen, life, death and struggle for life in 3D deserve a shot at a true education, and continue on to fully utilize their knowledge.