The Bitter Lament of a Muslim Woman by 'Jahanara Begum'

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Dec 25, 2003
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The Bitter Lament of a Muslim Woman



By Jahanara Begum

"Allah Amader Kandte Dao!" Allah, Please let us weep in peace! —Jahanara Begum

Please, Allah, leave us alone to cry and weep in peace. From behind the veil, beyond public gaze we want to cry till we cannot cry any more. This is the only right you have left to us Muslim women, throughout the Islamic world, where your laws are meticulously followed. The world beyond is undergoing so many changes, so many evolutions over the ages; year after year, new discoveries are being made both in the sciences and philosophies, in the rest of the world, improving upon old ideas and beliefs. But we are tied forever to the rigid and immutable shackles of your laws, Allah. No one ever came forward for our emancipation. Unique is our society! Men like Raja Ram Mohun Roy or Swami Vivekananda are not born in this society. No Sharat Chandra comes forward in this society to write an account of the volumes of tears that flow from our eyes. Educated Muslim men like Badruddin Tyebji, Hamid Dalwai and others like them have written on measures to stop the killing of cows but have failed to utter a single word of sympathy for us, Muslim women. Abdut Jabbar can write a big fat volume on the eunuchs—and on the castrated in different Muslim societies—but he has nothing to say in our behalf. Syed Mustafa Siraj was at least honest when he said that the Hindus can fearlessly write on the injustices and other inadequacies of their social system, but we, the Muslims, are afraid to criticize the defects of the Islamic society. Nargis Sattar has started to write a few articles on the subject of Islamic marriage laws and we were so hopeful. But that hope too, once again, has been taken away from us. More than a hundred female lawyershad demanded women’s emancipation in the streets of Lahore in Islamic Pakistan. The ‘heroic’ Pakistani policemen attacked the female lawyers with sticks and batons. A Muslim female member of the ADMK party ofIndia had raised the subject of the emancipation of India’s Muslim women in the nation’s parliament—but then, all the progressive members of parliament remained silent on the issue, for no one wanted to offend the fundamentalist mullahs and lose the Muslim votes.

Oh Allah! the political leaders and their supporters in this land are very peculiar. They are just like the eunuchs who used to live among the innumerable young and beautiful women of the harems. All the lust, passion and sexual desires that overtook them, were of no avail for after all, they were eunuchs and so quite helpless. Our political leaders are exactly like those eunuchs. These leaders talk in high-sounding, noble words such as ‘freedom’, ‘non-discrimination’, ‘secularism’ and many other beautiful words. But alas, they do not have the means to apply a single such word to the day-to-day life of our Muslim society. And so, the crying and weeping of the Muslim women go on unchecked; from one age to another. Their tears are symbolized by the waters that cover three quarters of this planet. What a horrible, inhuman and illogical existence we have! Leaving his hundreds of concubines behind, the octogenarian Sheikh from Arabia comes to India to ‘marry’ a Muslim teenager. The news is flashed in all papers but behold, not a single political leader even registers a protest. Not a single mullah or maulvi declares ‘jihad’ or holy war on such goings-on. On the other hand, the mullah presides over these "Muta Marriages" that last for only a short fixed time.

What an unbearable existence for us to live and survive among co-wives! Innumerable children, unhealthy surroundings, poverty and lack of education have made a mockery of our social lives. Even goats and cows live better than us. The frequent fights among the co-wives, the pulling at one another’s hair are so degrading! And then, God forbicl, if the miyan or husband gets into the fray, then we get beaten like a beast until we cannot takeit anymore. And after the beating, to make it even more degrading, the miyan takes his other wife into the bedroom and shuts the door into our face.

If there is the slightest shortcoming in the wife’s attention to the physical needs of the miyan or husband, thenwoe be to her. She goes on suffering forever from an acute uncertainty, and intense anxiety. The sword of ‘Talaq’ or divorce could come down on her any moment. The slightest inattention eoulo provoke a divorce. All is in the hands of the Muslim husband. Just the pronouncement of the word ‘Talaq’ three times can move the earth from under the feet of the Muslim wife. The consequence? Cheap labour or prostitution. The little children suffer from lack of mother’s love, a sense of awesome insecurity and an unhealthy environment. If the children manage to survive then the society is burdened with more beggars and criminals. Admittedly such occurrences do take place in other societies as well, but then they are much fewer in number and, what is more important, in other societies such a state of affairs is not allowed to persist in the name of their ‘religion’, while in our society the mullahs preach such treatment to us women in the name of ‘Islam’. The motto among us is: ‘Breed and profit’—take over the land by increased birth rate. And we, the married Muslim women, have to bear all the burden of the entire operation. That is why no one ever finds a married Muslim woman who is not nursing her own baby or is not pregnant. They are with a child all the time. They die young.

We observe the lives of Hindu women who live near oraround us. What a sense of purity, security and trust surrounds their family lives! Where is the hope of chastity, of purity in our lives? If the Muslim husband comes to regret divorcing his wife, if it happens at all, he still can do nothing to redress the situation. Allah, your laws of the ‘shariat’ prevent re-marriage with the ex-husband. The mullah will get into the act, get the woman ‘married’ to someone else and she has to consummate the ‘marriage’ for three days and three nights, and then, and then only, she can re-become ‘pure and virgin’. If the new husband ‘divorces’ the woman obligingly, then only the previous and now repentant husband can ‘re-marry’ her. On the other hand, if the bride happens to be a good woman, the new husband may not wish to divorce her and then trouble starts between the two men. Fighting breaks out culminating in murders in many cases. Such is our life, Allah! Who should we go to with our sorrows and complaints? If we rebel, then we are physically beaten and punished in accordance with the laws laid down by you. If we complain, then we are accused of being hypocrites or ‘munafiq’. Inevery other religion, respect is accorded to chastity, self-control and purity. But not so, in your religion. Oh Allah, the only privilege that we have is to cry our hearts out.
 
Dec 25, 2003
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There are many ‘educated’ Muslims who are not unaware of all this. But they do not protest for they too are out to have fun at our expense. Those Muslims who are truly liberated, abandon us and do not want to concern themselves with our problems. It was with us in mind that Kazi Abdul Oclud once said that in the last 1400 years, Islam has not been able to light even a small candle eradicating darkness from human civilization. Abu Syed Ayub spent his entire active life singing Tagore songs. He married the Hindu woman Gouri Dutta and lived a free and healthy life like any other Hindu. Mohamnled Ali Karim Chagla did the same. Vice President Hidayetullah, political leaders like Sikandar Bakht, Dr. Jeelany, Syed Mujtaba Ali too, did the same; in fact any one from our society that has gone up in civilized life away from our miseries, pains and problems moved closer to the society of the Hindus. (We are not sure about Ghagla, but Humayun Kabir and Sadiqu Ali married Hindu ladies. –Publisher).Only we the abandoned ones are left behind in the dark prison controlled by the mullahs and the maulvis.We just cry here in an endless pain. No writer or reporter writes a story on us or makes an attempt to fathom the depth of our sorrow. The Government of India gave us the right to vote but denied us a healthy and peaceful married life by perpetuating the ‘Muslim Personal Marriage Code’. The ‘Hindu Code Bill’ liberated the Hindu women but we still remain the victims of polygamous practices. No remedy has been provided to prevent frivolous divorces in our Islamic society.

Once upon a time we used to trust the Marxists on this score. The Muslim women of Tazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan have found their freedom in Soviet Russia. No Sheikh from Arabia can buy them. These women do not spend their lives among innumerable children, unending pregnancies and degrading fights among co-wives. They have meaningful lives to lead. The mullahs do not have control over them. But here in our land, even the Marxists are under the thumb of the mullahs. A Marxist like Mansur Habibullah went to Mecca, became a ‘Haji’ just to please the mullahs. And everyoneknows that in his personal life, Habibullah does not care about this religion. His life is like that of a logical Hindu. And so we were saying Allah, you have not given us the slightest opportunity to have a little peace, a little happiness. Your lack of concern for us is eternal. In the middle ages, nawabs and sultans used to keep thousands of women in their harems. Most of our days and nights then were spent in weeping. Some spent their time in laying plots and some in profligacy and unnatural practices. We were the fuel for the lusts of these sultans. Interminable fights have taken place among brothers, between father and son and among the nawabs themselves for us women. The chariot of civilization, slowly but surely, has crossed many paths. Radical changes have taken place in other societies and other lands. Even the burning of the ‘suttee’, a terrible Hindu practice, has been eradicated by social progress. The marriage of very old men with very young brides that used to take place among some Hindus, following the ‘Kaulinya’ system—has also been abandoned in time. Many bad social customs and practices have disappeared in other societies. Even in our Islamic society some good changes have taken place—but then these changes have always been to the advantage of Muslim males only.

There is a villaye near Basra in Iraq. That village was well-known for supplying eunuchs for the nawabs’ harems. Nearly 60% of the young lads who were castrated there used to die. This butchery has ceased today. There are many Muslims like Idi Amin who have numerous wives but the eunuchs are no more there to watch over the women. But for us, nothing has changed. The men of our society are completely without concern for their women. By granting a few property rights they seem to think that a lot has been done for us Muslim women. What good are these property rights when our marriages are scarred with an unending chain of divorces and re-marriages? The Muslim law has, on the other hand, given rise to a lot more persecution of Muslim women. If a divorced Muslim woman files a suit for her property and alimony rights, then the Muslim court moves very slowly indeed. In the meantime, the husband can get remarried without any hindrance from our Islamic laws. The law of the land that helps women of all other communities under similar circumstances is of no use to us Muslim women because we are supposed to go by the laws of Islam only and nothing else. It was Abdul Rauf who wrote in the Bengali newspaper ‘Jugaantar’ describing the sorrows of Muslim women all over the country but, alas, there was no reaction. A few letters appeared in the press supporting the article and that was all.

But our Muslim leaders are very sensitive when it is a question of their own vested interest. Muzaffar Hussain wrote from north India that the Hindi movie ‘Talaq, talaq, talaq’ was renamed ‘Nikaah’ on the advice of the mullahs.The mullahs said that to mention the name of the film to their wives, the Muslim husbands would have to pronounce the magic word three times which would automatically end their marriages. These are funny men who are afraid to pronounce the word ‘Talaq’ but would do nothing to eradicate the dreadful practice of frivolous divorces. Such a great number of Muslim women lead a helpless and miserable life due to this abominable practice of ‘Talaq’.But then none of the ‘pious’ Muslims worry about it. The Islamic soldiers of Pakistan’s Yahya Khan gang-raped hundreds of thousands of women in Bangladesh. More than two hundred thousand women became pregnant. A great number of these women later became insane. Only Mujibur Rahman tried to help a little, but the rest of the Islamic world maintained a complete silence. Khomeini’s Iran is currently killing hundreds of women. Their fault is that they do not support his rule. So, in the name of Islam, these women are being butchered. Vishnu Upadhyay has written about the incidents in the newspaper ‘Aaj Kal’ but then no one says a word—the Muslin world is still silent. In any other society, if a woman is raped, the papers cry out in her support, raising a storm of protest in the community. Islam means peace. To watch silently the persecution of women is perhaps this peace. Such lack of concern for women has prevented all improvement in our condition. No blessing or show of kindness from our angels has been bestowed upon us and so, Allah, we are telling you once again about our sadness. You are the master of this world and universe. You are the one we are addressing our complaints to. You have denied us a happy life. If we happen to be one of many wives of a rich Muslim then we spend our lives in jealousy, rivalry and unending pregnancies. If on the other hand, we belong to a poor husband then there is back-breaking hard work for all day and one pregnancy after another as well. Wherever we go, the sword of ‘Talaq’ or divorce always hangs over our heads. The uncertainty and insecurity of our lives affect not only ourselves but our children as well. They have no better choice and get into begging and street crimes. You have seen the crowds of Muslim women and their numerous children roaming around the Howrah station of Calcutta. That they are Muslims can be guessed by the presence of the bearded mullahs that hang around these women. The only concern of the mullahs is to ensure that these women remain Muslims. They are not concerned with their health, well-being, safety and simple humanness. And so, there is nothing for a Muslim woman to look forward to. There is a lot of tears to shed though. A lot of weeping that has no remedy. And so we are crying out to you, Oh Allah, you have given us one and only one privilege and that is to weep. Please therefore let us weep in peace and leave us alone.
 
Aug 13, 2005
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Wow you really got something against islam dont you? I read about one paragraph of what you posted, and wow what a surprise something that i havent seen, you could go to borders and barnes and nobles and buy books about what you wrote but it comes down to two facts 1. That this is written by an anti-islamic group that likes to spread lies about islam 2. It could really be a woman that was a muslim, this happens alot unfortunatley because of the governments who opress and make laws that have nothing to do with islam. I skimmed the article and saw a few things about how science proved islam wrong????? where show me! The Quran is full of scientific miracles. Lets take evolution for a second In the Quran it doesnt refute evolution at all if anything it supports it, 1400 years ago the quran stated that ALL animals came from WATER and guess what thats the scientific thought today. Its funny because if you read about history 1400 years ago and especially in the arab lands you will know that woman where treated like dirt and the Quran came and put an end to all that. Alot of people like to attack islam with what you posted that its against women etc... yet the women themselves are saying something else around the world for every one man that converts to islam 7 women convert. In America for every one man 4 women convert. And these arent small numbers in america alone the least number i heard of muslim converts per year is 25,000, that means from that 25k approx. 20k are females. Islam is being attacked like crazy but why? how come other religions arent attacked like that? well a little bit of it is because of the people who hijacked islam, but the main reason is because so many people are leaving their religions and entering islam the submission to God and im talking from every religion even jews check this site out http://www.jews-for-allah.org/ and also a majority of people who enter islam where athiests or agnostics, but there is a ridiculously large amount of preachers and priests becoming muslims, people feel threatned so their only way to fight back is to attack islam with false accusations among many other things including writing a fake quran and distributing it a few years ago, how low can people go.
 
Dec 25, 2003
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Whoa there scooter! Somehow you turned a woman's essay into an expose on the scientific miracles of the Quran, jews for Allah, and other completely useless, unrelated trivia.

Tell me about the lives of women in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Qatar, the UAE, and Afghanistan. Tell me about their tremendous rights and wonderful lives. Tell me about "honor killings" and why they are legal *even* in the most tolerant, secular Muslim country in the world (Turkey).

There are women in some parts of the Middle East who never leave their houses. Ever. The viewpoint stressed in this article is not one of propaganda or anti-Muslim attacks. This is the memoir of a woman who sees the plight of her fellow women and her own plight and wishes to say something about it.

I'm not debating the validity of the Quran, the nifty scientific miracles, or anything else about Islam. The fact is, women in most Islamic countries have it far, far worse than women in any other place in the world, excepting a few areas in Africa. The only Islamic countries where women earned above average or average marks in any areas of human rights were Tunisia, Morocco, and Algeria, and still those countries have a ways to go.

I'm not debating Islam - or your right to practice it. The fact that you did not even read the article is telling. Re-read the article, and come back.

Are you of Middle Eastern descent? Have you ever talked to the men about how they treat the women out there?

Would you want to be one of 4 husbands? I mean seriously man. The closer to Wahhabi Islam, especially, one gets, the worse off women have it. Why is this showilla?

Why are the Muslim countries of the world the most egregious human rights violators? Why do personal freedoms dissolve as one gets closer to Mecca? Why is Saudi Arabia, the holiest of all Muslim countries, at the absolute bottom of the scale in terms of women's rights?

Practice Islam. No one ever told you not to. But why do you shut your eyes and mind to the human slavery that exists in many Muslim countries?
 
May 14, 2002
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shoowilla, are you familiar with the docu Submission?
if not then I will post it up for you somewhere these day's if you want.

It's about the submission from muslim woman for Allah

it's made by Theo v. Gogh and Hirsi Ali (she's also a muslim woman who is also in parlement)
 
Aug 13, 2005
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[/QOUTE]Whoa there scooter! Somehow you turned a woman's essay into an expose on the scientific miracles of the Quran, jews for Allah, and other completely useless, unrelated trivia.

Tell me about the lives of women in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Qatar, the UAE, and Afghanistan. Tell me about their tremendous rights and wonderful lives. Tell me about "honor killings" and why they are legal *even* in the most tolerant, secular Muslim country in the world (Turkey).[/QOUTE]
From all those countries listed the only place that treated women unjustly is in afghanistan, some of those other places you listed might have some crazy prohibitions on women as well but i personally know someone from every country you listed. I dont really get which area your trying to concentrate on about those countries maybe having to wear the scarves around their heads? yes thats part of islam its so the women does not attract anyone i could go more into detail about the various subjects that i can talk about but ima jump from point to point. Anyways in most of those places woman decide by themselves to wear the hijab or scraf or cover their face up even. For example my mom, my dad never told her to cover herself up infact shes the one who decided to go ahead and wear the hijab. Its not recommened for a woman to work in islam, keyword recommended but its ALLOWED, so any country which forbids women to work is wrong, because in islam it clearly states that if a woman works all the money she keeps is hers and only hers she doesnt have to spend it on the house, on her kids etc... and on top of all that if she wants her husband is still supposed to provide her money for her personal needs. Infact when a woman works all the money is hers, when a man works he has to take care of EVERYONE he is responsible for even his neighbors if they were needy. In islam when a man passes away in the will the women gets less than her brother would because her brother would have to take care of the whole family including her, but the money she gets is all hers. When a woman gets married in Islam she puts decides on a 'mahr' which is money that has to be given to her by her furute husband, she decides the amount, why? pretty much to show that he can take care of her when he marries her in fact when a man marries a woman he has to provide for her exactly what her family used to provide for her nothing less. I can go on and on, but the woman in Islam is such an amazing thing for me myself my mom is what i am today, the prophet s.a.w said that the mothers are the leaders of this nation. And honorable killings? i believe you are talking about the woman who are killed for comitting adultery, in that case yes in the islamic sharia which is only used in a few countries a women is to be killed if she had sexual relations with a married man or if she was married BUT the man himself would be killed too, and in order for that decision there would have to be 4 witnesses.

[/QOUTE]
There are women in some parts of the Middle East who never leave their houses. Ever. The viewpoint stressed in this article is not one of propaganda or anti-Muslim attacks. This is the memoir of a woman who sees the plight of her fellow women and her own plight and wishes to say something about it.

I'm not debating the validity of the Quran, the nifty scientific miracles, or anything else about Islam. The fact is, women in most Islamic countries have it far, far worse than women in any other place in the world, excepting a few areas in Africa. The only Islamic countries where women earned above average or average marks in any areas of human rights were Tunisia, Morocco, and Algeria, and still those countries have a ways to go.

I'm not debating Islam - or your right to practice it. The fact that you did not even read the article is telling. Re-read the article, and come back.[/QOUTE]
First off its cool that me and you can have a convo like this because most of the time over the internet people like to throw insults left and right. The thing is, is that most of the woman who are speaking out about this come from countries like Iran, Taliban afghanistan etc... and most of them dont know anything about Islam because if they did they would have never such things we hear about these people arent rightous people they are opressors just because they call themselves muslims doesnt mean thats what islam is. A person who walks with a limp doesnt change the real meaning or action of walking, i hope that made sense but im half asleep. God sent the prohpets on the worst of people and Mohammad s.a.w was the best prohpet sent on the worst of people, the arabs. The thing is, that this is opression and thats all that that is

[/QOUTE]
Are you of Middle Eastern descent? Have you ever talked to the men about how they treat the women out there? [/QOUTE]
Yes not only im i middle eastern but im an arab, arab family are huge i consider anyone from my town to be blood family. And never have i heard any woman complain because she doesnt have too, woman are treated like queens and thats anything regardless of what yall saw on tv or read, i lived it. Mothers are pretty much the final word in the household and sisters are the most spoiled.

[/QOUTE]

Would you want to be one of 4 husbands? I mean seriously man. The closer to Wahhabi Islam, especially, one gets, the worse off women have it. Why is this showilla?[/QOUTE]
being able to marry 4 woman is something in the Quran it is something that you can do in islam, ONLY if you can provide for them equally, money wise and love wise, you cant love one more than the other. the ratio of men to woman out there is crazy not every woman will get married in the world its something like 1 out 3 or 4, yet every woman wants to get married. In most countries woman cant make a living for themselves therefore they need a husband and not every woman can get married. Another example is a woman whos a widow and cant support herself and children a man who is already married can marry her to support her which is a case in what happend with my uncle he married a second wife because her husband died and had kids to take care of and debts to pay. The marriage thing is really a positive for the woman because the man has to work twice as hard to afford giving his second wife what he gives the first etc...

[/QOUTE]

Why are the Muslim countries of the world the most egregious human rights violators? Why do personal freedoms dissolve as one gets closer to Mecca? Why is Saudi Arabia, the holiest of all Muslim countries, at the absolute bottom of the scale in terms of women's rights?[/QOUTE]
like i said it all comes down to the rulers, the prophet s.a.w said a day will come when the most unjust and worst of you will become your rulers. Like i said before dont look at islam through the actions of these people read what the Quran had to say through tafseer, read the hadiths or sayings of the prohpet s.a.w quick story, Umar was the second khalifah of the muslims, a portrait of what people believe he looked like (Islam forbids drawings of people to be taken) hangs in the highest court in france, where they declared him as the most just ruler in the world. They have his portrait up there of what they believed he looked like so people walk by it everyday and see that this is a just ruler. Umar was given the keys to jerusalem, he never went to war for it. And when he was given the keys he only took a servant and a donkey from medinah in saudia arabia to jerusalem. The leader of the muslims road a donkey with a servant to jerusalem alone (at this time the Islamic empire was very strong) Anyways he divided the trip in threes he rode the donkey reading a passage from the quran when the passage was over he got off the donkey and let his servant ride the doney while reading that same passage when it was over the servant got off the donkey and they both walked reading the passage while non of them was riding the donkey to give the donkey a rest, they did this all the way to jerusalem, thats what a muslim ruler should be like, thats human and animal rights for you 1400 years ago.

[/QOUTE]
Practice Islam. No one ever told you not to. But why do you shut your eyes and mind to the human slavery that exists in many Muslim countries?
[/QUOTE]

Exactly i practice islam unlike many other religions practicing islam isnt something you do once a week so trust me i am very knowledgable when it comes to all these points and i know what the prohpet taught us and what the Quran tells us to do. Anyways if i made any typing errors or anything its cause im beat, and im writing this half asleep.
 
Dec 25, 2003
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shoowilla said:
From all those countries listed the only place that treated women unjustly is in afghanistan, some of those other places you listed might have some crazy prohibitions on women as well but i personally know someone from every country you listed.
I know many women from many Middle Eastern countries as well. Those who say that the rights of women are respected and women are not treated unjustly are no different than Republicans in America saying Bush is doing a great job. They either don't know any better, or are lying to themselves, or are afraid to speak out.

Women in some sections of Saudi Arabia cannot by any means leave their houses. The men have divorce power, punishment power, and even the power to kill their wives for what they believe is breaches of honor.

Anyways in most of those places woman decide by themselves to wear the hijab or scraf or cover their face up even. For example my mom, my dad never told her to cover herself up infact shes the one who decided to go ahead and wear the hijab. Its not recommened for a woman to work in islam, keyword recommended but its ALLOWED, so any country which forbids women to work is wrong, because in islam it clearly states that if a woman works all the money she keeps is hers and only hers she doesnt have to spend it on the house, on her kids etc...
Once again this is like George Bush quoting the Bible and going against the principles of Jesus. What the Quran says is secondary to what actually happens. Shar'iah is interpreted by men, and no country in the entire Middle East follows the law to the letter. The "propoerty rights" given Muslim women are not enforced or held up in court. If Muslim women take complaints to court, they are acted on very slowly, and often get ignored or pushed aside. The choice to wear the hijab is minor; the threat of a man divorcing his wife who does not have enough children, does not please him sexually, or speaks out in what he calls 'disrespect' keeps women in slavery. There are *very*, very few self-sufficient Muslim women in Middle Eastern countries. If that is the case, their husbands are rich, or they are part of a royal family.

And Women are forbidden to work in many Muslim countries. Saudi Arabia had to import over a million chauffers because they could not let their women drive. Even if a woman wants to go to a university in Saudi Arabia the man must be in a seperate room teaching to video cameras because such is the fear that the women will be tainted. Women in the Muslim world are nothing but property.

And honorable killings? i believe you are talking about the woman who are killed for comitting adultery, in that case yes in the islamic sharia which is only used in a few countries a women is to be killed if she had sexual relations with a married man or if she was married BUT the man himself would be killed too, and in order for that decision there would have to be 4 witnesses.
Often even the suspicion or threat of adultery is enough to sentence a woman to death. In some countries, honor killings are carried out on women who do not wear the hijab, who have sex outside of marriage, or even women who wear makeup. (Yemen, Afghanistan) The 4 witnesses stipulation has been abandoned in many countries, and this has been supported by juristic scholars. Most countries do not follow the Shariah exactly from the Quran.

The thing is, is that most of the woman who are speaking out about this come from countries like Iran, Taliban afghanistan etc... and most of them dont know anything about Islam
There was talk among some in Sunni circles and jurists of making Afghanistan the new caliphate before the US invaded. Mullah Omar definitely lacked the credentials, but in much of the Muslim world the consensus was generally made that Afghanistan was the country that most closely followed the Shariah. Women are behind in their rights in every Muslim country. Not one Muslim country has women's rights on par with the world average. All are below, and some are the worst ever.

And these women who "dont know anything about Islam" live in Islamic societies, hear the azan and allahu akbar every day, and live in countries that supposedly follow the shariah. You say these women know nothong of Islam? Comedy. They know that they are locked in rooms, sometimes not learning to read or write, forced to sexually please their husbands constantly, and forced to constantly bear children. They face societies that are uncaring and unhelping, little possibility of being able to provide for themselves, and uncertain fates if they are divoerced. In many Muslim countries, poor women are pushed to the street and become prostitutes, later being picked up, jailed, and tortured for being prosititutes. So whatever these women "dont know" about Islam, the people who "do know" are not doing any better.

Yes not only im i middle eastern but im an arab, arab family are huge i consider anyone from my town to be blood family. And never have i heard any woman complain because she doesnt have too, woman are treated like queens and thats anything regardless of what yall saw on tv or read, i lived it. Mothers are pretty much the final word in the household and sisters are the most spoiled.
Where are you from?

being able to marry 4 woman is something in the Quran it is something that you can do in islam, ONLY if you can provide for them equally, money wise and love wise, you cant love one more than the other. the ratio of men to woman out there is crazy not every woman will get married in the world its something like 1 out 3 or 4, yet every woman wants to get married. In most countries woman cant make a living for themselves therefore they need a husband and not every woman can get married. Another example is a woman whos a widow and cant support herself and children a man who is already married can marry her to support her which is a case in what happend with my uncle he married a second wife because her husband died and had kids to take care of and debts to pay. The marriage thing is really a positive for the woman because the man has to work twice as hard to afford giving his second wife what he gives the first etc...
It is positive when she is taken care of, it is negative when she is a slave and useful only for marriage.

Exactly i practice islam unlike many other religions practicing islam isnt something you do once a week so trust me i am very knowledgable when it comes to all these points and i know what the prohpet taught us and what the Quran tells us to do. Anyways if i made any typing errors or anything its cause im beat, and im writing this half asleep.
I am not ignorant of Islam or Middle Eastern history. I have read much of the Quran and the hadiths as well. The sad fact is, women are mistreated and bought and sold like possessions in most Middle Eastern countries. And if they are not bought and sold, they are left to societies that do not care, do not assist them, and do not allow them to take care of themselves.

The BEST Muslim country for female equality is Tunisia, where women earn 40% of what men earn. This figure, even, is inflated because many working women did not start without a job and found one, they were born into or given jobs. Often Muslim women who try to work on their own with no one to help them out often recieve very low paying jobs.
 
Aug 13, 2005
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i cant reply to everything you posted cuz im studying for a final right now, but pretty much you are not going about what islam teaches you are going about what people who call themselves muslims do. And i believe Libya and maybe a few other countries have the shria as law, like you said countries like taliban afghanistan didnt go by the 4 witnesses rule so thats UNISLAMIC. Im say what i said before just cuz someone walks with a limp doesnt change the character of walking its a tough analogy but i hope you get it. And im from the Gulf i wont state what country but apparently thats where women are most opressed. You read and see this stuff on tv but i lived this and i can tell you the real if you have time check this article out

http://www.famsy.com/salam/Women1003.htm
 
Dec 25, 2003
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Shoowilla, I understand your argument and respect your viewpoint.

However, the only example we (non-Muslims) have of Islam are the countries who today claim to be part of the Ummah, and the examples are usually not very good.

The fact that this woman is speaking from the relative safety of Australia, and the writer she quoted in the article is from Canada, is telling. It is unlikely they would have had widespread following or attention in Libya, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, or Egypt. In fact, the voices inside the Muslim world critical of Muslim Ummah and State policy do not exist excepting a few small blips here and there.

Often Muslims who come to Western countries speak openly of dissent, peace, freedom, and criticisms of the government, but those voices do not often come from inside the countries themselves, where such things are not allowed. It is one thing to speak of what "real Islam" is or might be, but the examples the rest of the world has are not very good.

And I do not watch American News or read books by American authors about Islam to get my info. That would be foolishness. But I respect and understand your viewpoint.
 
Sep 28, 2004
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The treatment of women in some places is very sad. You have only to look at the pictures of the women who have stood up against their oppressors. They have had acid tossed into their face. They've been mutilated so that no other man would want them. All for wanting to change their conditions. I do not blame the religion, but I do blame the men who use it wrongly. There are always people who are radical and violent when it comes to a religion they have skewed. Sometimes it's whole nations. It's the difference between the christian who offers to teach you about Jesus but then understands and backs off when you decline, and the radical who plants a bomb in an abortion clinic for Jesus. The latter has skewed the words of the bible to force their own morals.

I was under the impression, but I can always stand to be corrected, that the Koran itself does not state that women are second class citizens or property. It is the men that make it that way. The men in those countries in which you see women being oppressed the worst have taken their own opinions and made it law. Where women are property and can be beaten at will.

I took the time to read the link Shoowilla provided and found that I was actually surprised. I was pleased to read that education was something to be provided for both men AND women. Is this upheld?

However, I am not totally sold on the reasons for covering up as a woman. Covering up, and hiding themselves is a way to guard against assault from men according to the article. It listed statistics on a few other countries and how often women are assaulted sexually. Rather than train a man not to assault a woman, the temptation itself must be removed. Cover her, and make her lower her gaze as to not attract attention. That will make her safe. The article attempts to make it sound as if the woman is empowered by this, because now she can choose who may view her beauty and charms. She will not be judged on her gender, but on what she says or does. If this is so, then it is a good thing.

If she chooses not to cover up, will she suffer for it? Being assaulted is a terrible consequence of not hiding away. That shouldn't be the result of wanting to be seen. Would someone has less respect for a woman who did not cover herself?
 
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CC, 99 times out of 100, none of these rights and privileges are granted. The Middle East consistently ranks the second worst place in the world for human rights, especially women's rights. The only worse place for a woman to be born is an underdeveloped African country.
 
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I watched 1 min of that video and i was disgusted, people have no shame depiciting islam, the naked woman praying straight up shows the bias and offensiveness of the video towards islam, i ask God for forgivness. Like i told the other cat thats great, theres books about this stuff, the fact of the matter is she was opressed by a government and by her parents and etc... that woman is absolutley ignorant when it comes to religous knowledge but thats the way it goes. Its just like the hardcore athiests who were brought up in religous households and where forced to go to church, when they grow up, they grow up to hate their religion. You guys keep posting this stuff but the fact of the matter is thats not what islam teaches, but apparently that will never pierce any of your minds. Muslims are attacked CONSTANTLY. People can keep attacking but the truth will always rise. The reason this female fled to amsterdam was becasue her parents where forcing her into a a marriage and islam clearly states, in Quran and hadith that a woman must never be forced into marriage. The thing you guys seem to not get is that these are CULTURAL beliefs and not Religous beliefs. Like i said before God sends the prophets on the worst of people. And you guys are from the outside looking. etc etc etc
 
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That video was made by a muslim woman and a athiest man. Who were the best of friends... till that man got murderd by a muslim because of his 'beliefs'
 
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you dont understand how offensive that video was, you have no clue about how muslims charish this religion from the quran to praying, i was sick to my stomach last night after seeing that video and it still is in my mind. The fact that they had that woman naked is what set it off, and im in NO WAY supportive of what happened to that dude. Bottom line about that video is that its just one more thing added to the long list of propaganda against Islam.
 
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WHITE DEVIL said:
CC, 99 times out of 100, none of these rights and privileges are granted. The Middle East consistently ranks the second worst place in the world for human rights, especially women's rights. The only worse place for a woman to be born is an underdeveloped African country.
this is 100% correct, As someone who has spent extended amount of time in arab countires i can vouch for this. It is even present in the islamic doctrine;for example, execution of a woman who has relations with an "infedal" is justifiable by God. Just one of the many inequalities present, in not just Islamic culture, but arab culture as a whole. There is not one middle eastern country/arab country that is not completly corrupted.