Selling Units!!
- Thread starter dj 2nv
- Start date
I disagree. It can be done. The question is, how can it be done.
Like we say in our meetings at PaperTrail Productions: Product, Promotion, Timing, Pricing
Music is competitive just like anything else in this country. Every now and then there are bumps (unless it is a dead industry) in the road, but that just corrects the problems (product is bad, price is bad, too much supply, marketing techniques need upgrading, etc)
The first thing a group has to do is figure out what the goal is. For PaperTrail we had our first meeting about a year ago and I asked them what the goal was. I presented three choices. Make money, sell units, or both. I presented them with the pros and cons of each choice. They chose to sell units. When the focus is clear, it changes the way you operate. You do anything youhave to to sell units. lower price, give out free shit, shows, et, etc. Other things that I wont go into can also help. But that kind of decision can only be made if your came if a groups leadership is sound financially. If everyone has decent jobs (at least the leaders of the company) then the pressure is not on things to make money that first release, you can have other goals.
Its hard to get artists to think long term sometimes, though. Niggas wanna get paid. In our case we have each artist doing solo projects. THAT is where they make their bread. The compilation is to present our artists to the public. We gotta build trust. Maybe we'll do another one, but it depends onthe feedback we get fromthe buying public and stores.
I went in Rasputins yesterday and saw the Watch out Now mixtape for 9.99. I saw another group that has advertised on this board's tape on sale for 14.99. I know how much money Rasputins charges on top of what they artist gets. SO I have to wonder why there is such a disparity in price. Are the 14.99 cats doing it to make money right now, are they already so well known that they expect people to buy thier stuff onGP. have they created a "buzz"? Maybe they spent HELLA money on promotions. I don't know, but that's steep when your tape is the same price as C-Bo.
I think we have to be creative with our marketing. You gotta pick the right things. A lot of stuff we spend money on is frivolous and isn't cost effective. I'm not saying that magazines don't work, we put ads out in 'em, too. But if the $ is tight, you really can't be spendin 2500 on a page ad when nobody really knows if it works anyway. Get a quarter page and make it stand out. SOmething different. Either by having something weird, just make it stand out. Otherwise, those magazines are a budget trap. Plus, isn't having street promotion the best promotion. Promo help on the streets is priceless. Treat people good who work for you. They are doing you a FAVOR. If you have an army of 50 people doing it, you will sell units. FOr us, I WISH I could get 15 more people to do promo for us. Anyway, that shit is free, if you pick the right people and treat em good. The hard part, as Robb said is getting paid from the units you sell. That's one I haven't had to deal with yet and can't speak on. THAT would be fucked up. The usual problem is reordering. Gotta keep the flow going.
My point with this is we have to be smart inhow you spend. More frugal. COst effective shit only. And you gotta be honest.
I told our artists who were trying to get us to take out all these ads this, "Basically, you guys will sell records if you hustle. Every 10k fkiers we pass out is a 1,000 units we'll sell. Yall want the magazine ads because your lazy and dont want to put in the work! You stay on me about getting you radio interviews becuase you think that's what will make it happen the easiest. Make no mistake about it, YOU and YOUR HUSTLE determine the sales of this album. It's not gonna be on CNN that niggas got a cool CD. Hella people got a cool CD. If you don't want to put in the work, let me know now so I can stop wastin my fuckin money and put it back into my stocks and start buyin real estate in Las Vegas."
That seemed to work. But you got to be clear about people's responsibilities. Labels and their artists can't be lazy and expect these expensive promo campaigns and companies to bail them out from their own laziness.
Robb can you speak on just how hard it is to get paid for your shit. What are some of your techniques. SOme of you other labels can speak on it, too.
I think the BEST investment you can make... is stocks. This is maybe this generations best opportunity to get in on blue-chip stocks for a little or nuthin.
The biggest cost of doing music, is OPPORTUNITY COST. That means the real cost of your shit is the lost chance of doing something else with your money. WHat ELSE could you be doing with that same 15k.
I tell PaperTrail all the time (without rubbing it in), look, we removed this much stock to fund your project. It is now worth X amount if we had left it in. We don't mind doing it because we believe in your project, but if we sense you are getting lazy on the legwork, we can simply cut our losses take the rest of the budget and reinvest it in someTHING or someBODY else.
If labels have a financial foundation which allows them to just tread water for a little while, it is a lot easier to sell units. If they gotta make money RIGHT NOW or go bust.... then everything probably gets fucked up.
Like we say in our meetings at PaperTrail Productions: Product, Promotion, Timing, Pricing
Music is competitive just like anything else in this country. Every now and then there are bumps (unless it is a dead industry) in the road, but that just corrects the problems (product is bad, price is bad, too much supply, marketing techniques need upgrading, etc)
The first thing a group has to do is figure out what the goal is. For PaperTrail we had our first meeting about a year ago and I asked them what the goal was. I presented three choices. Make money, sell units, or both. I presented them with the pros and cons of each choice. They chose to sell units. When the focus is clear, it changes the way you operate. You do anything youhave to to sell units. lower price, give out free shit, shows, et, etc. Other things that I wont go into can also help. But that kind of decision can only be made if your came if a groups leadership is sound financially. If everyone has decent jobs (at least the leaders of the company) then the pressure is not on things to make money that first release, you can have other goals.
Its hard to get artists to think long term sometimes, though. Niggas wanna get paid. In our case we have each artist doing solo projects. THAT is where they make their bread. The compilation is to present our artists to the public. We gotta build trust. Maybe we'll do another one, but it depends onthe feedback we get fromthe buying public and stores.
I went in Rasputins yesterday and saw the Watch out Now mixtape for 9.99. I saw another group that has advertised on this board's tape on sale for 14.99. I know how much money Rasputins charges on top of what they artist gets. SO I have to wonder why there is such a disparity in price. Are the 14.99 cats doing it to make money right now, are they already so well known that they expect people to buy thier stuff onGP. have they created a "buzz"? Maybe they spent HELLA money on promotions. I don't know, but that's steep when your tape is the same price as C-Bo.
I think we have to be creative with our marketing. You gotta pick the right things. A lot of stuff we spend money on is frivolous and isn't cost effective. I'm not saying that magazines don't work, we put ads out in 'em, too. But if the $ is tight, you really can't be spendin 2500 on a page ad when nobody really knows if it works anyway. Get a quarter page and make it stand out. SOmething different. Either by having something weird, just make it stand out. Otherwise, those magazines are a budget trap. Plus, isn't having street promotion the best promotion. Promo help on the streets is priceless. Treat people good who work for you. They are doing you a FAVOR. If you have an army of 50 people doing it, you will sell units. FOr us, I WISH I could get 15 more people to do promo for us. Anyway, that shit is free, if you pick the right people and treat em good. The hard part, as Robb said is getting paid from the units you sell. That's one I haven't had to deal with yet and can't speak on. THAT would be fucked up. The usual problem is reordering. Gotta keep the flow going.
My point with this is we have to be smart inhow you spend. More frugal. COst effective shit only. And you gotta be honest.
I told our artists who were trying to get us to take out all these ads this, "Basically, you guys will sell records if you hustle. Every 10k fkiers we pass out is a 1,000 units we'll sell. Yall want the magazine ads because your lazy and dont want to put in the work! You stay on me about getting you radio interviews becuase you think that's what will make it happen the easiest. Make no mistake about it, YOU and YOUR HUSTLE determine the sales of this album. It's not gonna be on CNN that niggas got a cool CD. Hella people got a cool CD. If you don't want to put in the work, let me know now so I can stop wastin my fuckin money and put it back into my stocks and start buyin real estate in Las Vegas."
That seemed to work. But you got to be clear about people's responsibilities. Labels and their artists can't be lazy and expect these expensive promo campaigns and companies to bail them out from their own laziness.
Robb can you speak on just how hard it is to get paid for your shit. What are some of your techniques. SOme of you other labels can speak on it, too.
I think the BEST investment you can make... is stocks. This is maybe this generations best opportunity to get in on blue-chip stocks for a little or nuthin.
The biggest cost of doing music, is OPPORTUNITY COST. That means the real cost of your shit is the lost chance of doing something else with your money. WHat ELSE could you be doing with that same 15k.
I tell PaperTrail all the time (without rubbing it in), look, we removed this much stock to fund your project. It is now worth X amount if we had left it in. We don't mind doing it because we believe in your project, but if we sense you are getting lazy on the legwork, we can simply cut our losses take the rest of the budget and reinvest it in someTHING or someBODY else.
If labels have a financial foundation which allows them to just tread water for a little while, it is a lot easier to sell units. If they gotta make money RIGHT NOW or go bust.... then everything probably gets fucked up.
Exactly. There is a huge difference in how you conduct business "on the turf" as opposed to how you conduct business with white, corporate cats who have no (or very little) concept of how street business operates.
As a businessman & entrepreneur, one of the most important things to know is you have to have an understanding of your competition. What their business structure is, how they operate, what they charge, what they earn, etc. There are some cats that I know that have JUST LEARNED a skill or trade (by schooling) and want to immediately start their own company when they graduate. Though ambitious and sounds good on paper, you HAVE to have an in depth understanding of your industry - not just book knowledge. You have to gain some experience in what you do before you're ready to go out on your own. How can you be knowledgeable of a business you have no exprience in?
Same goes for rap. Too many cats in the game are "Overnight CEO's/Rappers/Producers" and have nothing solid on thier resume. The CEO or President of the label has the most responsibility in the whole business. On an independent level, he or she needs experience and an in-depth knowledge in all aspects of the game. He needs to be the creative overseer, the head of A&R, the project manager as well as the guy with the knowledge, intelligence & experience to run his business in an efficient & profitable manner.
"Overnighters" take a large responsiblity for the current state of the game.
I'm not saying a new CEO can or can't fo it, but I think there is WAY too much to do, to do everything yourself. The music aspect and business aspect both have so much involved in it, I just can't see how you can do it AND make your artists feel like they are taken care of. Our producer at PaperTrail used to do EVERYthing himself. Probably most indies are like that. But that can wear on you. Finding competent help that you trust.... may be the biggest part of all. Then again, you gotta be able to pay the help. I can see why its tempting to do it yourself. When money gets tight, you wear more hats.
My job is just to get it in store, promote and give musical feedback. I tell people in a minute, I don't do music. I critique the music like a muthafucka. I take care of the business side of it. And, becasue I am not around the cats who make it that much, I am quick to give it an honest thumbs up or thumb down. Brutally honest.
Big Robb, I gotta make sure we get in that store. I'll be at you on the PM to follow up
My job is just to get it in store, promote and give musical feedback. I tell people in a minute, I don't do music. I critique the music like a muthafucka. I take care of the business side of it. And, becasue I am not around the cats who make it that much, I am quick to give it an honest thumbs up or thumb down. Brutally honest.
Big Robb, I gotta make sure we get in that store. I'll be at you on the PM to follow up
All this bullshit sounds beautiful on paper. However, the truth is evident in practical application. Despite all the dreams of success that all label heads hold, the numbers don't lie. The music industry as a whole is hurting right now. Just ask the RIAA, Wherehouse, or any major label and they'll tell you that shit is fucked up. For every hit the are several flops. My cousin works in marketing at AOL/Time Warner and she working all of Fabolous's shit. The budgets are tight so they shut down the offices and the marketing reps work from home offices now. And you think Bubblegum records on a $50,000 budget can make a difference? Perhaps on a local level. Do you think that consumers won't download your indie cd's like they do 50 cent? Please...
Again, the numbers don't lie. If cats with names and track records are having problems moving units, what makes anyone else so fortunate?
A good CEO will recognize market conditions and adjust his business plan accordingly. Does that mean closing your doors and ceasing to do business? Not necessarily. But it may mean looking into other ventures and other means of making money. After all, a CEO should be primarily concerned with the profitability of his company.
"my advice: invest in a laundromat" - B12
hehe... that's some sound advice playa.
Again, the numbers don't lie. If cats with names and track records are having problems moving units, what makes anyone else so fortunate?
A good CEO will recognize market conditions and adjust his business plan accordingly. Does that mean closing your doors and ceasing to do business? Not necessarily. But it may mean looking into other ventures and other means of making money. After all, a CEO should be primarily concerned with the profitability of his company.
"my advice: invest in a laundromat" - B12
hehe... that's some sound advice playa.
