RACE AND RAP: DOES DIVERSITY IN THE BAY HOLD US BACK?

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DOES THE RACIAL MAKEUP OF THE BAY HOLD US BACK?


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Jun 6, 2005
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Bullit_Tooth said:
oh good point... reminds me of a Cormega interview where he talks about performing at a "hip hop" concert, where the majority of acts were white underground artist like Aesop Rock,etc. (so the majority of the crowd was white), when he got on stage they booed him,and yelled that he wasn't "real" hip hop because of his style of rap, (they somehow thought was commercialized, because it didnt fit with the other rappers performing that day)and he basically confronted the crowd by reminding them who started hip hop.
History in America proves that other races outside of Black,are obsessed at anything that seems to be a all inclusive form of self sufficiency and progression for us.
Hip Hop was birthed as just that in the seventies as it applied to the declining public school music program of NYC, and it grew outward. The main areas that got hit the the hardest with budget cuts were the Black communites of the five burroughs, and like above, we lost sufficient support, so we became self sufficient.

With that said, this self suffiency was adopted by other races and social backgrounds who ran up against the same circumstances the black community did. And this is a great, respectful contribution to the culture, it shows unity against a common enemy.
Again, where it goes wrong is when you have a outside entity that sees Black self sufficency as a threat on any level, including hip hop, so these entities use hip hop industry (media) to paint a "multi-racial evolution" over time, when in fact it is a MONO-racial growing process that other races have partaken into over time.
Which is a beautiful thing.
But again, there are those who are so obsessed with our ability to pioneer our own well being as black people that they struggle to CONTROL AND DICTATE this by trying to ignore it's Black roots hoping that it will just "go away over time"along with those who openly challenge the facts . The non-black hip hop"elitist" fans, in theory are "niggerologists", eager to determine what's "real" hip hop.
 
Oct 11, 2002
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T-Kash, at first I wasnt really vibing with you because you had a song called "Hustlematic" but this thread makes me understand we are all alike in some way shape or form. Hats off to you and your label for continuing the legacy Public Enemy left.
 

DUTCH-F.E

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Apr 25, 2002
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ebonics is a "slave tongue"??? t cash you have lost your got-damned mind...... whats poppin is a slave tongue? fa-sho is slave tongue? holla at me later is slave tongue... get the fuck outta here...... you guys and this fuck the white man at all cost bullshit kill me. hahahahahahahahahahahahahah

now cause im white i have to replace my "a"'s at the end of words like mothafucka with "er" cause im white. you are so bogus.
 
Jun 6, 2005
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DUTCH-F.E said:
ebonics is a "slave tongue"??? t cash you have lost your got-damned mind...... whats poppin is a slave tongue? fa-sho is slave tongue? holla at me later is slave tongue... get the fuck outta here...... you guys and this fuck the white man at all cost bullshit kill me. hahahahahahahahahahahahahah

now cause im white i have to replace my "a"'s at the end of words like mothafucka with "er" cause im white. you are so bogus.


Ebonics
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For African American U.S. English that is distinctly non-standard U.S. English, see African American Vernacular English.
Ebonics, a portmanteau of "ebony" and "phonics", was originally intended and sometimes used for the language of all people of African ancestry, or for that of Black North American and West African people, emphasizing the African roots of the former; since 1996 it has been largely used to refer to African American Vernacular English (distinctively nonstandard Black United States English), emphasizing the independence of the latter from (standard) English.
Contents
[hide]
1 Ebonics as first intended
2 Ebonics in an exclusively U.S. context
3 Notes
4 References
5 External links
[edit]Ebonics as first intended

What is claimed to be the initial mention of "Ebonics" was made by the psychologist[1] Robert Williams in a dialogue with Ernie Smith that took place in a conference on "Cognitive and Language Development of the Black Child", held in St. Louis, Missouri, in 1973.[2] In 1975 it appeared within the title and text of a book edited and co-written by Williams, Ebonics: The True Language of Black Folks. Williams there explains it:
A two-year-old term created by a group of black scholars, Ebonics may be defined as "the linguistic and paralinguistic features which on a concentric continuum represent the communicative competence of the West African, Caribbean, and United States slave descendant of African origin. It includes the various idioms, patois, argots, idiolects, and social dialects of black people" especially those who have adapted to colonial circumstances. Ebonics derives its form from ebony (black) and phonics (sound, the study of sound) and refers to the study of the language of black people in all its cultural uniqueness.[3]
Other writers have since emphasized how the term represents a view of the language of Black Americans as African rather than European.[4] The term was not obviously popular even among those who agreed with the reason for coining it: it is little used even within the Ebonics book, in which "Black English" is the far commoner name.[5]
John Baugh claims[6] that the term Ebonics is used in four ways by its Afrocentric proponents. Two refer to the languages of the African diaspora as a whole.[7] Two others correspond to English: one "is the equivalent of black English and is considered to be a dialect of English", the other "is the antonym of black English and is considered to be a language other than English".[8]
[edit]Ebonics in an exclusively U.S. context

For more details on this topic, see African American Vernacular English.
Ebonics remained a little known and little remarked term until 1996; it does not appear within the second edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, published in 1989 and thus over a decade after it was coined, and it was not used by linguists.[9]
In 1996, the term became widely known in the U.S. thanks to its use by the Oakland School Board to denote and recognize the primary language (or sociolect or ethnolect) of African American children attending school, and thereby to facilitate the teaching of standard English.[10] Thereafter, Ebonics seems to have become little more than an alternative term for African American Vernacular English (q.v.), although one emphasizing its African roots and its independence from English, linked with the fuss over the decision by the Oakland School Board, and avoided by most linguists.[11]
[edit]Notes

^ For Williams's background as a writer on issues related to IQ, see Baugh 2000, 16. Baugh also flatly states (2000, 18) that "Williams is not a linguist".
^ Williams 1997; qtd Baugh 2000, 2. Conference details: Baugh, 2000, 15.
^ Williams 1975, vi; qtd Green 2002, 7, and qtd Baugh 2000, 15. Unfortunately there is something amiss with each reproduction of what Williams writes, and also possible incompatibility between the two. Green has a couple of what appear to be minor typing errors (whether Williams's or her own, and anyway corrected above following Baugh) but otherwise presents the text as above: an unexplained quotation ("the linguistic and paralinguistic features...black people") within the larger quotation. Baugh does not present the material outside this inner quotation but instead presents the latter (not demarcated by quotation marks) within a different context. He describes this as part of a statement to the US Senate made at some unspecified time after 1993, yet also attributes it (or has Williams attribute part of it) to p.vi of Williams's book.
^ For example Smith 1998, 55–7; qtd in Green 2002, 7–8.
^ Baugh 2000, 19.
^ Baugh 2000, 74–5.
^ Williams 1975 and 1997; Blackshire-Belay 1996.
^ The equivalent, Tolliver-Weddington 1979; the antonym, Smith 1992 and 1998; both as summarized in Baugh's words.
^ Baugh 2002, 12, citing O'Neil 1998.
^ Green 2002, 222. Its use in the context of education in reading, often involving the pedagogic approach called phonics, may have helped mislead people into thinking that the phonics from which the word Ebonics is derived has this meaning.
^ For linguists' reasons for this avoidance, see for example Green 2000, 7–8.
[edit]References

Baugh, John. 2000. Beyond Ebonics: Linguistic pride and racial prejudice. New York: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-512046-9 (hard), ISBN 0-19-515289-1 (paper).
Blackshire-Belay, Carol Aisha. 1996. "The location of Ebonics within the framework of the Afrocological paradigm." Journal of Black Studies 27 (no 1), 5–23.
Green, Lisa J. 2002. African American English: A linguistic introduction. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-81449-9 (hard), ISBN 0-521-89138-8 (paper).
O'Neil, Wayne. 1998. "If Ebonics isn't a language, then tell me, what is?" In Theresa Perry and Lisa Delpit, eds.
Perry, Theresa, and Lisa Delpit, eds. 1998. The real Ebonics debate: Power, language, and the education of African-American children. Boston: Beacon. ISBN 0807031453.
Smith, Ernie. 1992. "African American learning behavior: A world of difference." In Philip H. Dreywer, ed., Reading the World: Multimedia and multicultural learning in today's classroom. Claremont, Calif.: Claremont Reading Conference.
Smith, Ernie. 1998. "What is Black English? What is Ebonics?" In Theresa Perry and Lisa Delpit, eds.
Tolliver-Weddington, Gloria, ed. 1979. Ebonics (Black English): Implications for Education. Special issue of Journal of Black Studies 9 (no 4).
Williams, Robert. 1997. "Ebonics as a bridge to standard English." St. Louis Post-Dispatch, January 28, p.14.
Williams, Robert, ed. 1975. Ebonics: The true language of black folks. St Louis, Mo.: Institute of Black Studies / Robert Williams and Associates. (Green 2002 and the Library of Congress online catalog say IBS, Baugh 2000 says RW&A.).
[edit]External links

Baugh, John. "American varieties: African American English: Ebony + Phonics". PBS, 2005.
Patrick, Peter L. "Answers to some Questions about 'Ebonics' (African American English)". University of Essex.
Ebonics discussion on LINGUIST List


Ebonics is bogus man.It's a proper way of saying slave toungue. Nobody's telling you to do anything Dutch.I used the white kid mex-foood as an example , it can be any race. And who said fuck the white man at all costs? It's about ignorance , and any race can harbor that.Blacks included.

If anything , we need more non black brothers like you in the game , you do it the right way , with respect and decency , and people speak highly of you (myself included) even if we don't see eye to eye on everything.


I think this is just a thread where everyone on here is firm believer in whatever it is we believe in, I'm not gonna change my mind because of anybody who disagrees with me.But I'm not going to downplay what I know to be the truth either.

As I keep saying , the point is to work together on what we do agree on , and respect each others differences.

People do tell me I lost my mind though.....wonder why?..oh well
check you're email man!lol
 
Nov 7, 2005
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Mr Arson said:
its funny, people say "whites wernt there when it started" even know thats false (rick rubin came up with the whole idea of def jam), but the fact is pharoah you wernt there when it started either, jimi hendrix wasnt there when the guitar was invented, does that give him no place to play guitar? your argument is fucking weak, you sound really ignorant posting this shit, and thats why you have tried deleting it dozens of times. The diversity is why the bay had such a good indi game in the first place, people of all backrounds enjoying a music that reflected the bay, its about being proud of being from the bay, not where your family lived 100 years ago, get a fucking clue.
fuck are you talking about? i gave props to lyor cohen. what is he? he gets props for really being a builder. so don't ever twist my argument. everybody is welcome at the table, but rick rubin gets false credit. that credit should go to russell and lyor
 
Nov 7, 2005
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Jesse fuckin' Rice said:
WRONG

"The Geto Boys (released by Rick Rubin's Def American Recordings, later re-named American Recordings) is actually a compilation, consisting mainly of ten tracks taken from their 1989 album Grip It! On That Other Level as well as two new songs and one song from their debut LP, Making Trouble."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geto_boys
okay. instead of he left rap in 88. i will change it to he left 89
 

DUTCH-F.E

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Apr 25, 2002
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pharoh ive seen 2 mix tapes form your camp. if you have a real album with dist. post your scans up. a mix tape aint a real record, and a song completed dont make no album. you know should know this man, you are signed with ruff ryders.
 

Arson

Long live the KING!!!!
May 7, 2002
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DUTCH-F.E said:
pharoh ive seen 2 mix tapes form your camp. if you have a real album with dist. post your scans up. a mix tape aint a real record, and a song completed dont make no album. you know should know this man, you are signed with ruff ryders.
he is signed with ruff ryders like im the king of mexico.
 
Nov 7, 2005
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TKASH said:
History in America proves that other races outside of Black,are obsessed at anything that seems to be a all inclusive form of self sufficiency and progression for us.
Hip Hop was birthed as just that in the seventies as it applied to the declining public school music program of NYC, and it grew outward. The main areas that got hit the the hardest with budget cuts were the Black communites of the five burroughs, and like above, we lost sufficient support, so we became self sufficient.

With that said, this self suffiency was adopted by other races and social backgrounds who ran up against the same circumstances the black community did. And this is a great, respectful contribution to the culture, it shows unity against a common enemy.
Again, where it goes wrong is when you have a outside entity that sees Black self sufficency as a threat on any level, including hip hop, so these entities use hip hop industry (media) to paint a "multi-racial evolution" over time, when in fact it is a MONO-racial growing process that other races have partaken into over time.
Which is a beautiful thing.
But again, there are those who are so obsessed with our ability to pioneer our own well being as black people that they struggle to CONTROL AND DICTATE this by trying to ignore it's Black roots hoping that it will just "go away over time"along with those who openly challenge the facts . The non-black hip hop"elitist" fans, in theory are "niggerologists", eager to determine what's "real" hip hop.
you actually have summed this whole thing up perfectly.
 
Nov 7, 2005
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DUTCH-F.E said:
pharoh ive seen 2 mix tapes form your camp. if you have a real album with dist. post your scans up. a mix tape aint a real record, and a song completed dont make no album. you know should know this man, you are signed with ruff ryders.
i thought you were trying to say our music ain't real. i will put our music up against anyone out here
 
Nov 7, 2005
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Mr Arson said:
he is signed with ruff ryders like im the king of mexico.
remember in that other thread where you said you would call me a bitch to my face? until you do stop posting to me or about me. i am having a discussion with dutch who is well respected out here by me and my crew. you notice that even though we are disagreeing we still are keeping it on a manly level. while your only purpose is to start a e-beef
 
Apr 25, 2002
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yeah hip hop is historically a black artform
but what's it come from? disco and soul(early NY rap artists we're performing at disco clubs exclusively)
where's soul come from?
rock and roll
where's rock and roll come from?
buddy guy and the chicago blues artists
where do the chicago blues come from?
the missippi delta blues artists
where did the missippi blues come from?
the jubilee's
where did the jubilee's come from?
west africa

everything comes from something
you say white people don't respect the roots of hip hop
well do all black people respect the true roots of hip hop? or know them?

everyone needs a little education in life
and segregation does not lead to education

do i pay respects to the black forefathers in music because their black?
FUCK NO
i pay respects because i appreciate the music

the struggle forms the music...yes
but the struggle changes
there's always a struggle
but it's not hte same to everyone...
it changes constantly

as long as someone is struggling
their will be powerful music
 
Oct 28, 2003
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YOUNGMOE said:
yeah hip hop is historically a black artform
but what's it come from? disco and soul(early NY rap artists we're performing at disco clubs exclusively)
where's soul come from?
rock and roll
where's rock and roll come from?
buddy guy and the chicago blues artists
where do the chicago blues come from?
the missippi delta blues artists
where did the missippi blues come from?
the jubilee's
where did the jubilee's come from?
west africa

everything comes from something
you say white people don't respect the roots of hip hop
well do all black people respect the true roots of hip hop? or know them?

everyone needs a little education in life
and segregation does not lead to education

do i pay respects to the black forefathers in music because their black?
FUCK NO
i pay respects because i appreciate the music

the struggle forms the music...yes
but the struggle changes
there's always a struggle
but it's not hte same to everyone...
it changes constantly

as long as someone is struggling
their will be powerful music
That is real talk...and you don't have to originate something to love it or care about it. At the end of the day we all eat, drink, watch, drive and wear something created by someone else...and love the shit out of it. Most white people are cool, so are most black people and mexicans, Iranians, Chinesse, Germans, Romanians....my point is MOST OF ALL PEOPLE ARRE GOOD PEOPLE. Exclusion is ignorance personified.
 
Aug 1, 2004
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It's more about corporations pimping hip-hop culture to people that ussually wouldnt give a shit unless it was "pop"-ular.

No disrespect, I just dont understand why alot of white people get so worked up over this shit......I consider myself more white than anything else and its never really been an issue to me.

You can tell who's just playin the roll and who's being themselves.....if you just do you theres nothing to worry about.

If anything we should be mad at how most so called hip-hop, rappers/fans (cause you can barley tell the difference now days), act in general, white, black, brown, asian ect.

The level of ignorance is embarrassing. I honestly dont like telling people outside of hip-hop what I do sometimes because we've all been stereotyped as idiots that dont know how to act....which in alot of cases is true.
 
Jan 20, 2006
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TKASH said:
Right. There is absolutley nothing wrong with other races who consider themselves a part of hip hop. It's only wrong when these kids assume that it's "evolved" into something that isn't Black anymore.

Time alone does not constitute evolution.Time plus progressivness does. The fact is that most of these racial groups claim hip hop isn't a black thing anymore,but they braid their hair, give them selves dreads, speak in our slave tounge("eboincs"), and so fourth.Then try to tell us that somehow "dressing down and sluming" with the worst aspects of black culture is the reason why it's "evolved". Your "contribution" is essentially MOCKING us, which in theory makes you a MINISTRELact, not a hip hop head.
This man continues to drop that ETHER!
 
Jun 6, 2005
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shame said:
It's more about corporations pimping hip-hop culture to people that ussually wouldnt give a shit unless it was "pop"-ular.

No disrespect, I just dont understand why alot of white people get so worked up over this shit......I consider myself more white than anything else and its never really been an issue to me.

You can tell who's just playin the roll and who's being themselves.....if you just do you theres nothing to worry about.

If anything we should be mad at how most so called hip-hop, rappers/fans (cause you can barley tell the difference now days), act in general, white, black, brown, asian ect.

The level of ignorance is embarrassing. I honestly dont like telling people outside of hip-hop what I do sometimes because we've all been stereotyped as idiots that dont know how to act....which in alot of cases is true.

We need more brothers like you....and Dutch , and C-4 and Daddy rich , and Native Gunz , and Nate mezmer , and Brother Ali...etc. You say it better than I could man , it's about ignorance. Not Race.

If anything , our common enemy is industry politics and prejudice, which hurts us all if we dont find common ground to fight it. Thats why the wed.night workshops in Concord are so vital.We all want what's best for ourselves and our people.


AND GIVE ME MORE NEW MUSIC TO PLAY!!!!!!-LOL