Officers down in Dallas protests

[BUTCHER 206]

I'm gonna read this later tonight, but does this also have information on white on white crime especially in areas that are predominately white and impoverished? Criminals in poverty are going to commit crimes in their area and against the people in their area, whether they're white/black/latino. Impoverished neighborhoods tend to mostly consist of one major racial group per neighborhood, so of course crime within ones own race is going to be high.

It doesn't make it OK, but it seems like an easy talking point for people when this is discussed to say "oh yeah, what about black on black crime?!" without delving into it. Not to mention there are people within their communities trying to work for change.

It's extrapolated data from various police reporting sources and the FBI crime report, but i realized after posting it they've drawn racist conclusions and have an obvious agenda to push. The same data was posted other times, iaoish found it without the opinion and only the data, id refer to that post. I encourage you to seek out the raw data yourself though, without a liberal or conservative spin attached

 

[BUTCHER 206]

 

[S.L.A.B]

Yes you did.

Quote me where I did it than?

 

[SeriouslyThug]

Yes you did.

free up some inbox space ty

 

[ReSpawn]

 

[SeriouslyThug]

 

[:ab:]

What the fuck does slavery have to do with any of this? Don't fall into the liberal media trap and expand this into something that's unsolvable by adding these deeper layers on it; they want you to feel hopeless and powerless, want you to be angry and ignore the facts. None of these cops were slavemasters, none of the whites today are slavemasters. None of these cops are on trial for slavery, none of these people being killed are slaves. Don't absolve individual responsiblities and demand blame for the actions of groups 400 years ago

so slavery in the US goes back to the early 1600's, approximately, and was officially abolished in 1865. over two hundred years of being legally defined as chattel property. free to be raped, hung, set on fire, whipped, whatever form of physical and mental subjugation one pleased.

slaves ended up being defined as three fifths of one person legally sometime in the 1700's. for purposes of determining the number of representatives a state/region could have in the legislature.

what kind of mentality does a country have, as a whole, that defining a living, breathing person as less than a whole human is part of the prevailing view? part of established law? you are severely underestimating the level of depravity that was considered normal. the effect on a group's psyche after being subjected to this treatment for generations upon generations is truly phenomenal.

that's why the modern day black dilemma has been solely created by the white man. people don't like to hear it but it is.

so fast forward a bit and come to the abolition of slavery in 1865. not all black folks were Frederick Douglass when the chains were released; many were not. most were still psychologically reeling from having their necks stepped on, figuratively and literally, for so long. again, this effect not only within the black community but the American culture as a whole is being downplayed to the point of absurdity.

blacks are free. now, at this point, segregation was a way of life. you stay over there and I'll be over here. not just physically, economically as well. imagine what black economic power would be today if they were allowed to be part of nation building from 1865 onwards? part of founding industries? access to capital to pursue industries like steel? imagine how money within a family would have multiplied in their hands if they were given that 40 acres and a mule as promised?

there were some black property owners (agrarian) for sure but the vast majority were relegated to being wage earners. so instead of being allowed to own and build their own, they were instead "allowed" to be labor. again, still kept to the lowest rung on the ladder in this capitalist system and society.

to put this into perspective; my friend's parents bought a house in SF in the 1960's for $12,000. that house is worth just a shade under a million right now. totally paid off. bought while working in a blue collar (yet unionized) job. this allows for the parents to pass on an asset worth one milly to their kids. I.e. generational wealth. and that's just in the last, what, forty of fifty years? one generation? imagine what could have been if blacks were allowed access to the mainstream economy since the late 1800's.

THIS IS HUGE. NO AMOUNT OF CAPS LOCK CAN TRULY CONVEY WHAT WAS TAKEN AWAY IN THE FORM OF MONEY, AND THE DOMINO EFFECT THIS HAD ON FAMILY'S WELL BEING AND PSYCHE. the possibilities could have been endless if generational wealth was allowed to build and grow. it would have been positive for the American economy as well.

this history in terms of economic growth and empowerment confirms the idea that the black man (or woman) would not be allowed to participate, creating a vicious, self-fulfilling prophecy and cycle of defeat. oh and, btw, this all occurs w the backdrop of slavery still looming in the background, that hasn't gone away.

 

[:ab:]

now why am I talking about the economy? and economic empowerment? because it matters. it allows one to build and set up one's offspring for a better life. that offspring can build upon that, so on and so forth. reach new heights by standing on the shoulders of our ancestors. money allows a family to access resources, get better education for your kids, eat well, live in safe neighborhoods, money is everything in America. (whether this is the right way to live, by money, is a discussion for another thread).

so the black man has been firmly cast out of the mainstream economy, other than being allowed to hold the most menial labor jobs available. but people still have to eat, right?

people, for the most part, will do what they have to in order to survive. pushed to the brink of starvation will have a person do some maney shit to keep going. within this country, and across the world, I've seen this with my own eyes. you know it to be true. same thing that led those plane crash folks to eat other human beings; shit gets crazy in order to survive. we are far removed from that here, generally speaking.

being ostracized from the mainstream economy, and still needing to eat and feed your fam, what do you do? in this case, pursue a living in the non-mainstream economy. participate in illicit activities to pay the bills.

the problem w that is this is inherently dangerous. if I open a store and someone robs it, I can call the cops. there is some form of protection of my economic interests from the govt. in the world of illicit activities there is no such mechanism in place - you are your own protection. risk is up. this is why you see people click up w others to jointly pursue common economic interests in the form of "illegal" activity, and protect each other in that pursuit. in this line of work, you have to be super vigilant, you have to be on edge, and your response Must be violent and swift. otherwise you become an easy target. I'm condensing a very complex issue to address one of your points.

when you say that a part of black culture is violent and that is the problem, you are only recognizing the effect but not the cause. lack of access to the mainstream economy leads one to the non-mainstream one, with the risks coming along with it. and then, of the population that lives like this, generations are being raised in it. another cycle has developed. people living that life must be violent in order to survive, point blank.

so when you say, the problem is simple and so is the answer, you are doing yourself a disservice (bcuz you are smarter and more empathetic than that). and you are falling far short of realizing what the actual problem is.

and the actual problem is not one thing (going back to my point of not simplifying things that are complex). there are many different issues at play.

 

[BUTCHER 206]

Right. It's the white mans fault. Disregard the fact that the vast majority of this country is white, the majority of which have less than two weeks of savings and live paycheck to paycheck, completely dismantling and destroying this idea that whites have this economic advantage and hold all of the power. The truth is individuals in this country succeed by education and learning skills that people are willing to pay for, and slavery is a pathetic excuse for not doing what it takes to succeed, and defeatist. Once again I'll say it; prescribing to the notion the odds are stacked against you is willful blissful ignorance inflicted by progressive liberalism and is easy to swallow, but toxic, un-American and weak. Everyone has the same chances. Let me correct that; poor blacks actually have more opportunities compared to poor whites ie welfare and affirmative action.

But swallow that liberal pill, it's easier to concede to defeat and think the odds are too high and not even try rather than working hard to elevate yourself as an individual.

 

[BUTCHER 206]

I'm very much familiar with this notion of being broke and having to do what it takes to survive, believe me. I've sold drugs in the past when my near minimum wage job couldn't even bring me enough food to survive. Me and my brother survived off free chips and salsa from his azteca job for days at a time. We ate peanut butter sandwiches and oatmeal til we got sick. There was no one to turn to, no help. Selling drugs was the easy pathetic thing to do and at times I had thousands of dollars in cash and didn't know what to do with it once the basic necessities were covered, so I spent it on nonsense like clothes, liquor, eating out, flashy materialistic egotistical things that had nothing to do with basic survival and the exact same thing is occurring within the black community. Don't insult me by implying gangs are just doing what they need to do to survive, from first hand experience i know that's bullshit. That's completely false. You and everyone knows the criminal lifestyle is not one of survival, but one driven by egotistical greed. It's about women, clothes, cars, shoes, liquor, drugs, the club etc. none of which have to do with survival in the least. If you want money you get a second job or you work overtime, or you gain education or learn a trade to put yourself in better circumstances. You don't sell drugs, you don't violently take what other individuals worked hard to gain. There are hundreds of legal means to make money. Crime is the easy pathetic defeatist thing to do, and the most destructive. I bought into that in the past at an early age, but never will again no matter how bad things are. I have $1.20 in my bank account, and easily jump back into that bullshit again, but that path is hollow and destructive and I will not allow myself to be a victim of self deception and defeat EVER again.

It's upon the individual to find the strength within themselves to overcome odds, not the group. There is no community or savior politician, only yourself. You'd think people would finally understand this after Obama and his whole sickening Change campaign.

 

[:ab:]

now throughout all of this, law and order have been present. for the most part, society needs it to stay civil.

the problem is checks and balances. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? who watches the watchmen? you have police out here acting any old way they want w fucking impunity.

the celste guap chick from the rich, broad has been on the track since 12 years old (which makes her a victim IMO). she got police squads across several counties in the bay SHOOK af. not only were these police cavorting around with a known prostitute, some of them were w her when she was under fucking age. it can be argued that this is not representative of all cops and I'd tend to agree. but I definitely think this is much more common than an Isolated incident.

absolute power corrupts absolutely. in the absence of penalties and true oversight, people will do what they can, if they can get away w it.

this all came to light because an Oakland cop and his wife died in what was officially ruled as a dual suicide. but his wife was shot in the head twice, it is largely believed that this was a murder suicide. with the facts being manipulated after the fact to save face of a fellow officer.

I bring this up for two things, to show how corrupt cops can potentially be (running around w child victims of the sex traffic trade) and how easily they can manipulate the "truth" as they see fit (dual suicide vs murder suicide).

so we have black folks who have been ostracized economically as detailed in the previous posts above. and also socially as well. they were seen as not humans and therefore treated as such. public lynchings were an event you could bring your whole family to!

this was reflected in the authorities' treatment; blacks could be beat, shot, murdered, falsely arrested/charged/convicted with absolutely no consequence to the cop or courts. for generations. this maltreatment over years has resulted in a natural distrust of police. rightly so.

tensions have been brewing for years and years. and years. one example, the detroit riots in the late 1960's, resulting from a conflict between police and black folks. but let's look at the nineties bcuz this is when the claims of black folks were starting to be substantiated by actual video. the little girl killed by the korean store owner in LA exemplified the idea that there was no justice for blacks. rodney king beat, on tape, and somehow the cops got off (there was a mini, mini riot at franklin junior high when that halpened, when I was a kid). case after case of police beating and (unjustifiably) shooting and killing folks. no consequences. the anger and tension is still building.

actual video is now documenting police mistreatment and murder. the tide is shifting a bit. police are being prosecuted at least, we'll see how many end up facing true consequences. but this anger, the BLM movement, this all didn't start recently. the anger, tension and mistreatment that birthed these movemets has been going on since the before America was even a country. things are coming to a head now.

if you support a country of law and order, then you ultimately support cops being brought to justice when they commit atrocities against citizens. which these all are. video seems to support the notion that alton sterling had both of his arms pinned down when he was shot. I do not support the govt having the ability to kill citizens (if we as citizens do not have that ability). you shouldn't either, for the sake of law and order.

body cams were introduced to the Oakland police like in 2012, maybe 2013? I dunno and it's late, so I'll google it later. incidents where force is used by police are down. complaints against police are down. what does that tell you? it tells me that body cams are needed and lrotect both the officer and the citizen. I'm sure a tech company like google or something would be willing to provide server space to host video of incidents. with transparency comes good behavior.

the problems with these kinds of discussions are that, as things get heated, the opposing sides entrench themselves further in their own perspectives. it's polarizing as hell. tbh tho? there is truth on both sides. there are good cops out there. there are incidents which occur that are unjustified. both these things can co exist in the world. it's not an either or situation.

anyways, I'm done B @butcher _206. I'm sure I missed some things but hopefully this made sense. my point is, it's not enough to tell the drowning man, 'hey, stop drowning dumbass'. this chit here is way more complex than that and should be recognized as such.

 

[:ab:]

it's all the white man's fault. god dam did i just waste my time writing all that lol fuck

I was also going to include reference to maslow's hierarchy and how that plays into people not being able to reach self actualization because their other, more basic needs are unmet.

there are some aspects that are defeatist in nature. I am willing to give you that. there are aspects of the culture that are harmful. babies and teenagers catch a stray and it's town bidness. I am not denying any of that.

there are some police that have been mistreating citizens and some correction must take place. I don't advocate the Dallas killings but I damn sure don't advocate for the shooting of alton sterling and other similar cases.
@HERESY , one of the cops killed in dallas was a white nationalist (aka supremacist). "allegedly". but is still held up as a fallen hero. crazy shit

sometimes in war there is collateral damage.

 

[BUTCHER 206]

Well thanks for the thought out replies and the time. I agree that police are not infallible and there are definitely bad apples, but that does not mean the whole barrel is rotten so to speak. I want changes too, and one of my main recurrent points is that this takes time. We have people saying this has been brewing over hundreds of years, then at the same time time want changes overnight which is pure insanity. You can't say "all police are bad" just like you can't say "all blacks are bad", it's the same toxic thinking. At the same time there has to be recognition from the BLM anti-cop side that most of these people getting shot aren't innocent victims. BLM calls a handful of people getting shot over the years a pattern of systematic police violence and oppression, while ignoring the thousands of black lives taken by blacks. How can one be a problem / pattern and the other is not?

Anyway, thanks again for the thoughful discussion, and I both recognize and apologize for being so entrenched in my own conclusions and position that it seems like I may be discounting or even dismissing what you and others have to say; believe it or not that's not true. I think those here involved in civil discussion want the same end result ; a better country for us all where economic opportunity is recognized as being equal and no one has to worry about being executed by police officers.

At least think twice before accepting this toxic media driven narrative though and allowing yourself to take a side. Nothing will get solved if everyone is angry and divided

 

[:ab:]

I'm very much familiar with this notion of being broke and having to do what it takes to survive, believe me. I've sold drugs in the past when my near minimum wage job couldn't even bring me enough food to survive. Me and my brother survived off free chips and salsa from his azteca job for days at a time. We ate peanut butter sandwiches and oatmeal til we got sick. There was no one to turn to, no help. Selling drugs was the easy pathetic thing to do and at times I had thousands of dollars in cash and didn't know what to do with it once the basic necessities were covered, so I spent it on nonsense like clothes, liquor, eating out, flashy materialistic egotistical things that had nothing to do with basic survival and the exact same thing is occurring within the black community. Don't insult me by implying gangs are just doing what they need to do to survive, from first hand experience i know that's bullshit. That's completely false. You and everyone knows the criminal lifestyle is not one of survival, but one driven by egotistical greed. It's about women, clothes, cars, shoes, liquor, drugs, the club etc. none of which have to do with survival in the least. If you want money you get a second job or you work overtime, or you gain education or learn a trade to put yourself in better circumstances. You don't sell drugs, you don't violently take what other individuals worked hard to gain. There are hundreds of legal means to make money. Crime is the easy pathetic defeatist thing to do, and the most destructive. I bought into that in the past at an early age, but never will again no matter how bad things are. I have $1.20 in my bank account, and easily jump back into that bullshit again, but that path is hollow and destructive and I will not allow myself to be a victim of self deception and defeat EVER again.

It's upon the individual to find the strength within themselves to overcome odds, not the group. There is no community or savior politician, only yourself. You'd think people would finally understand this after Obama and his whole sickening Change campaign.

thing is, I'm not justifying any of it. I'm attempting to explain how things came to be. why they persist? you may be right, maybe mfckas are trying to be cool. or maybe it's the path of least resistance to survive economically.

like I said, these discussions are ultimately fruitless because people just dig in to their own perspectives and want to be right, instead of leaning from the other side and reaching new levels of understanding. which I am prolly guilty of as well here.

it's coo tho

 

[Fucky McFuckerson]

Problem with this thread is everyone is right...and everyone is wrong. But lets argue for another 20 pages!

 

[HERESY]

You mean like Community Revolution In Progress? Or the CRIPS which subsequently led to the formation of the Bloods, which are now the two most violent street gangs in America?

The changes have to come to individuals, this community / group / tribe mentality is toxic, admits that you're weaker than everyone else and have to band together to change, and has been tried before and completely failed, costing hundreds of thousands of lives and trllions of dollars in damage. All other countries can prosper in peace and don't have a gun violence problem because they don't have this toxic criminal element.

I like how you intentionally leave all of your statements open and extremely vague so you can immediately say "That's not what i said".

Butcher, you overlooked the fact that several times I said it's on the individual. You missed where I said, several times, how we treat each other and resort to violence is part of our problem. If you don't understand how micro/macro works, how ideaologies and influence work within a community, especially when those ideaologies move past the fad stage, past the trends stage and become a part of the culture, then you'll rant and rave about groups, tribes, etc like you're doing now. There has been no cultural shift, from the ground up, within the black community, that wasn't infiltrated and corrupted by outsiders or destroyed from within by insiders with ulterior motives (and links to others.) You mentioned the crips, go ahead and tell the board how they started since you're amm expert in gang activity all of a sudden.

You and several other people here have been lumping all blacks in a group just like several here (myself included) have been lumping all cops in a group. The problem is, there is no unified front with blacks but there is a unified front with cops, that they themselves apply to cops, with BLUE WALL/BLUE SHIELD/BBIA and this is fact.

I haven't left any statements vague or open and have addressed those who I felt needed to be addressed, even when those people (speaking about you specifically now) lied from the gates and continue to lie. But there is no need to continue.

You and I are done here Butcher, there is no need for the two of us to continue the exchange. Say what you have to say, lie again if you want, make up shit, whatever. Have the last word.

5 to 1.

 

[HERESY]

free up some inbox space ty

It's clear hit me.

 

[BUTCHER 206]

Butcher, you overlooked the fact that several times I said it's on the individual. You missed where I said, several times, how we treat each other and resort to violence is part of our problem. If you don't understand how micro/macro works, how ideaologies and influence work within a community, especially when those ideaologies move past the fad stage, past the trends stage and become a part of the culture, then you'll rant and rave about groups, tribes, etc like you're doing now. There has been no cultural shift, from the ground up, within the black community, that wasn't infiltrated and corrupted by outsiders or destroyed from within by insiders with ulterior motives (and links to others.) You mentioned the crips, go ahead and tell the board how they started since you're amm expert in gang activity all of a sudden.

You and several other people here have been lumping all blacks in a group just like several here (myself included) have been lumping all cops in a group. The problem is, there is no unified front with blacks but there is a unified front with cops, that they themselves apply to cops, with BLUE WALL/BLUE SHIELD/BBIA and this is fact.

I haven't left any statements vague or open and have addressed those who I felt needed to be addressed, even when those people (speaking about you specifically now) lied from the gates and continue to lie. But there is no need to continue.

You and I are done here Butcher, there is no need for the two of us to continue the exchange. Say what you have to say, lie again if you want, make up shit, whatever. Have the last word.

5 to 1.

lol

 

[HERESY]

it's all the white man's fault. god dam did i just waste my time writing all that lol fuck

I was also going to include reference to maslow's hierarchy and how that plays into people not being able to reach self actualization because their other, more basic needs are unmet.

there are some aspects that are defeatist in nature. I am willing to give you that. there are aspects of the culture that are harmful. babies and teenagers catch a stray and it's town bidness. I am not denying any of that.

there are some police that have been mistreating citizens and some correction must take place. I don't advocate the Dallas killings but I damn sure don't advocate for the shooting of alton sterling and other similar cases.
@HERESY , one of the cops killed in dallas was a white nationalist (aka supremacist). "allegedly". but is still held up as a fallen hero. crazy shit

sometimes in war there is collateral damage.

I wouldn't be surprised if all of them were white nationalists.

 

[Mr. Nice Guy]

You can't say "all police are bad" just like you can't say "all blacks are bad", it's the same toxic thinking.

Except that it's not the same thinking. One can choose to be a police officer, while one can't choose to be black....(at least not yet since apparently we can choose gender but that is a topic for another thread haha).

It's the choices we make that define us as good or bad, not the physical characteristics we are born with.