Latinos VS. Blacks In Southern Cali Video
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I don't know. This article might help a little. It stresses that the Spanish stressed the importance of whiteness in Spanish ruled Mexico. I can't get the schematic on here of the racial caste system, but I'll try to get another one.
Essay
Danzón and Mexico's Caste System1
By Frank Montalvo
He was drawn to the music in the town plaza not far from his hotel. There, he saw the people dancing the danzón, a slow ballroom dance originating in Haiti, popularized by Afro-Cubans and imported to Mexico via Vera Cruz around the turn of the last century. The couples embraced and swayed rhythmically with ease. They were fully aware that they were on display with all eyes focused on their intricate steps. The onlookers admired the graceful movements of the dancers with knowing nods often punctuated with applause. He alone seemed to notice that the partners had an array of dark and light skin tones. As he walked through the crowd he heard a woman refer to her dark escort tenderly as "moreno" (dark skin, from moro-Moor) and a man whisper "mi negra" (black) to a woman with porcelain white skin. He was impressed.
"This is a racial paradise," he thought to himself. "I'll write a book about it."
The African presence in the Americas became significant when ten million slaves, 95% of all those who survived the middle passage from Africa arrived at ports of call. In the beginning in Mexico, where estimates of over 200,000 Africans landed, the society emerged with free, convivial relationships among the races. The Spaniards in power contributed to the mestizo and mulatto mix openly. Miscegenation was disparaged and mixed race offspring were seen as threats to civility and the social order later when European women arrived in numbers. Accordingly, the Spaniards shaped the existing racial dynamics into a stratified caste system with themselves on top and the Indians and Africans at the bottom. Inter-caste competition produced envy and hostility as caste was pitted against caste. In the process, the elites consolidated their power.
The incentive for the people to participate in the system was "racial whitening," or blanqueamiento: As one mixed and the children became lighter, one improved social status and in the process "improved the race." The colonizers' power to dictate cultural standards created a preference for Spaniards over Indians and Indians over Africans. People strove to look and behave more like Europeans. As a consequence, the system permanently tied phenotype to social status and denigrated non-European appearance. Whitening more often resulted in brown hues since the mixtures seldom achieved the ideal white purity that was sought. Nevertheless, the social arrangement was unlike other caste systems that were supported by religious belief or legal structure and locked believers forever in their stratum. It remained flexible and many were able to manipulate their identity and those of their children to their advantage as a survival strategy. The system's genius was in motivating people to want to seek acceptance and higher status through skin lightening. Having money or doing a stint in the militia could help to obtain papers declaring one to be of a lighter caste were alternatives for men primarily.
The evidence for the existence of a caste system lies in the country's art works.
Many series of colonial paintings were commissioned for European consumption by wealthy Spaniards to publicize their wealth and civility and document the most unique aspect of New Spain, it's mixed-race society. The paintings depicted the racial blending of families produced by its inhabitants. They portrayed some twenty or more combinations of racial types in a hierarchy of castes beginning with mestizo and mulatto offspring followed by progressively mixed groups frankly depicted by phenotype, dress, occupation, environs and, often, stereotypic behavior.
One series, the 18th century paintings in Las Castas Mexicanas (Garcia Saiz, 1989)2, presented the caste's hierarchy arranged according to the progeny of the three major interracial relationships: Spanish-Indian, African-Spanish and African-Indian. The schematic that follows, Racial Preference in Las Castas Mexicanas, makes four important points: 1. Spaniards defined the limits on whitening by deciding which race mixtures where acceptable and which were not. 2. Indian heritage played a recessive role in unions with Spanish and black castes. 3. Indian blood was "purified" and became white after continued union with Spaniards. 4. African unions spoiled the whitening of all offspring.
It took only three generations for the Spanish-Indian unions to produce the higher-caste Spaniard offspring. Unions between Africans with Spaniards reverted to the lower caste torna atras (literally, "throw back" to black children) in five generations. Unions between Indians and Africans produced the black-skinned offspring cambujo/a in six generations.
The schematic also depicts offspring created by unions between sub-castes (noted by broken lines), along with stereotypes for some of them (in italics). The latter are among the first examples of racism in Latin America when moral, mental and physical characteristics are attributed to phenotypes. For example, the Spanish-Indian subsidiary offspring tend for the most part to be positive (Coyote was "strong and bold") and those involving Africans tend to be negative (Calpamulato was "wild, strong, broad and short" and Cambujo was "slow, lazy and cumbersome").
Racial Preference in Las Castas Mexicanas2
Schematic by Frank F. Montalvo
Open attitudes in Mexico allowed for race mixing, but embedded within them a hierarchy of racial preferences. In time, indigenous Indians became fewer and marginalized and Afro-Latinos disappeared from the collective consciousness, which was one of the purposes of las castas. The population is now regarded as comprising mixed-race mestizos and the fewer, privileged whites -- the maid and the lady of the house popular in novelas (Spanish language soap operas).
Thus, vestiges of the caste system exist today even as couples dance dazón in small town plazas on Saturday night with pleasure and contentment, and oblivious to history and its consequences -- and to curious visitors.
1. Based on Montalvo, F. F. & Codina, G. E. (December 2001). Skin color and Latinos in the United States. Ethnicities, vol. 1, no. 3.
2. Garcia Saiz, M. C. (1989). Las Castas Mexicanas: Un género pictórico Americano (The Mexican castas: A genre of American paintings). Milan, Italy: Olivetti.
This website is pretty interesting they have some of the caste system at the bottom:
http://hemi.nyu.edu/archive/studentwork/colony/olson/Casta1.htm
http://hemi.nyu.edu/archive/studentwork/colony/olson/Casta1.htm
I have traced my roots back to my grand parents-grand parents. I did not cost me anything because like most hispanic families, my family was very close, on both sides. I started this research about 2 years ago. I first asked my older siblings questions about our lineage and they helped me greatly. I also have relatives that come from Mexico every year, I asked them questions all the time. After my grandparents-grand-parents on my fathers side, I have been told we are indigeous people from Mexico. On my mothers side, they have a strong history of Cherokee (sp?) Indian. Im not sure if this is answering you question but this is what I have found out so far. And right now, Im more than positive I have no white or black blood in me. Does this bother you HERESY?
how much white blood do you have in you?
Its crazy you and EDJ really find it hard to believe some MEXICANS really dont have Black blood in them. Is this that hard to believe?
Stop right here. Read the words in bold. So you've only traced back to your great grandparents, have no scientific data to back your claim and are POSITIVE that you have no black or white blood running in your veins?
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would it bother me? Well, your absurd and unsubstaniated claim should bother you. It doesn't bother me one bit. And as I said before, why WOULD it bother me?
Well, considering that my grandmother was half-white or whatever I'd say a lot. Considering the fact that my great-great grandfather on my dads side came from germany I would say probably a lot. Considering teh fact that up to 30% of african americans in america have partenal lineage that traces to europe I would say a lot.
Who said that I find it hard to believe that some MEXICANS really don't have black blood in them? Don't rely on fallacies to dictate this convo, bud. I am not speaking in regards to ANY mexican besides YOU. How do YOU know, for a fact, that you don't have any other blood running in your veins? YOU DON'T.:dead:
EDIT: I had to come back and drop this in lol! If EDJ is stating that 80% of mexicans have black blood in them, why would he find it hard to believe some mexicans (20%) don't have black blood in them? And I have YET to give ANYONE my take on what I believe the actual percentages are, so why are you jumping to conslusions?
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would it bother me? Well, your absurd and unsubstaniated claim should bother you. It doesn't bother me one bit. And as I said before, why WOULD it bother me?
Well, considering that my grandmother was half-white or whatever I'd say a lot. Considering the fact that my great-great grandfather on my dads side came from germany I would say probably a lot. Considering teh fact that up to 30% of african americans in america have partenal lineage that traces to europe I would say a lot.
Who said that I find it hard to believe that some MEXICANS really don't have black blood in them? Don't rely on fallacies to dictate this convo, bud. I am not speaking in regards to ANY mexican besides YOU. How do YOU know, for a fact, that you don't have any other blood running in your veins? YOU DON'T.:dead:
EDIT: I had to come back and drop this in lol! If EDJ is stating that 80% of mexicans have black blood in them, why would he find it hard to believe some mexicans (20%) don't have black blood in them? And I have YET to give ANYONE my take on what I believe the actual percentages are, so why are you jumping to conslusions?
Read again, Bud. That would be my grandparents - GRANDPARENTS. that is not my GREAT grandparents, bud. What proof do you want? So far what I have stated it TRUE based on my little research I have done. Of course, I can not do back 200-300 years and see who was fucking who...but thats the kinda of info you are asking for....so please dont laugh at me...laugh at you. No one could do that.
HERSEY it does bother you because you and EDJ are the 2 that are most persistant in claiming that black blood runs in everyone. You are the one asking me what research I have done, in essence it does bother you. Why does it bother you? I have no idea, maybe becuase you hate hearing people like be denouncing that black blood doesnt exist in me?? Or maybe you want try and make me look stupid on a forum? either way, it bothers you. Admit it, bud.
so you are a mixed? damn, no wonder why you are so intense regarding this subject. Sorry for ya.
correct, I dont know for a fact. But yet again HERESY I did not state this as a fact, did I? Read what I wrote again, I am more than positive I dont have any african blood in me. If I do I have not ran into it yet and judging by what family members have told me I make my claim. havent shot off into the past yet, my machine isnt quite done.
you have no take. You know as much about yourself as I know about myself. DO you care to know more? who cares. Do I? no, not really.
Its not like all of a sudden im going to start claiming im black. althuough this is a interesting topic, who really cares if I have african blood in me? I guess you and EDJ can sit back and say, "yep we're all black".....hey whatever makes you both feel better about being .
HERSEY it does bother you because you and EDJ are the 2 that are most persistant in claiming that black blood runs in everyone. You are the one asking me what research I have done, in essence it does bother you. Why does it bother you? I have no idea, maybe becuase you hate hearing people like be denouncing that black blood doesnt exist in me?? Or maybe you want try and make me look stupid on a forum? either way, it bothers you. Admit it, bud.
so you are a mixed? damn, no wonder why you are so intense regarding this subject. Sorry for ya.
correct, I dont know for a fact. But yet again HERESY I did not state this as a fact, did I? Read what I wrote again, I am more than positive I dont have any african blood in me. If I do I have not ran into it yet and judging by what family members have told me I make my claim. havent shot off into the past yet, my machine isnt quite done.
you have no take. You know as much about yourself as I know about myself. DO you care to know more? who cares. Do I? no, not really.
Its not like all of a sudden im going to start claiming im black. althuough this is a interesting topic, who really cares if I have african blood in me? I guess you and EDJ can sit back and say, "yep we're all black".....hey whatever makes you both feel better about being .
WOW! Lets tack on one more "great" and make it "great-great-grandparents." You think thats far back?!??! LMAO!!!!!!! I have a nephew (27 years of age) that has a son and his sons GM is my sister. His sons Great GM is my mother, and his sons Great-great GM is my GM (and yes she is still living.) Do you think it would be wise for that child to assume he doesn't have white blood based on the fact that he can trace to my grandmother? LOL!
Listen, you are saying that you know for a fact that you don't have ANY other blood in your veins. Again, my question to you is HOW did you come to this conclusion, but so far you have provided no evidence to validate this claim other than "I asked around and I was told blah blah blah." You don't know ANYTHING about the people past your great great grandparents, so who's to say that you DON'T have any other blood in your veins?
No one could do what? Go back 200 to 300 years to see who their families are? If no one can do it why do you have royal families dating back to the middle ages? LMAO! If no one can do it why do we have geneaology services? Certain people CAN'T do it because of circumstance and lack of information pertaining to records and birth (most black people), but surely someone who claims to be "pure" would have NO PROBLEM dating back to the ice age. lol!
These are lies from the pit of hell. Show me ONE QUOTE or INSTANCE of me claiming that black blood runs in everyone and I'll leave this board for good. Son, stop making false accusations fallacies to prove your point. I can't speak for EDJ, but I can speak for myself when I say that you're lying and accusing me of something I didn't do. Prove your claim and post an instance of me doing it, bud.
No it DOESN'T bother me. It bothers YOU. YOU are the one who would be mentally castrated and heart broken if it was proven that you had other blood runnign through your veins. YOU are the one who said, "i cant relate to either because I am MORE than positive I have no african nor white-spanish blood in me." Again, if you have done NO real research or DNA testing has been done how are you MORE than positive? LMAO!
Listen, if you have NO DROP of white blood, NO DROP of black blood and were 100% WHATEVER IT IS YOU CLAIM TO BE, that gives me no reason to hate hearing ANYTHING. Again, lay off the fallacies and wacky assumptions, and prove your claims. YOU are the one saying YOU are MORE than positive that you don't have these two races in your blood stream, and you are basing your knowledge on something someone told you. LMAO! You don't see the irony in all of this do you? LOL!
Again, why would it bother me? Why would I be upset at you NOT having black blood in your veins? ROFL! I see no logic in your claims bud.
How many african americans DON'T have white or native blood in them?!?!?!? LMAO! This guy is in RARE FORM today....
Just curious, are you familiar with Homer vs Plessy?
Son, not only did you state you are more than positive, but you even put emphasis on MORE by typing it in all caps. More than positive usually means one is 100% positive or sure of an instance. I am MORE than positive that I am sitting in front of a 17 inch sony LCD and not a 19 inch acer. I am MORE than positive that the two keyboards to the left are a korg karma and xp 60 and that the keyboard and machine to the right of me is a motif es6 and an mp-7. I am MORE than positive that I have a ten dollar bill sitting on my desk and that the bill is next to a JBL control 1 monitor. I am more than positive that the sound module in front of me says PROTEUS 2000. Do you get what I'm saying here, bud?
Again, if you are proclaiming that you are MORE than positive, and use caps to place emphasis on it, that would lead any sensible and rational reader to conclude that you are claiming that the statement is factual and beyond any doubt.
see above.
But according to you I don't believe it is possible for mexicans to not have black blood so which is it? Do I have a take or don't I? LOL!
On certain sides of my family this is true, and considering the fact that the knowledge is limited it would be absurd to make the claim that I am MOST positive that their ISN'T a particular bloodline running through my veins.
Again, you are relying to fallacies to prove your point. Son, you just said I don't have a position but now you're saying I would sit back and claim "yep we're all black". In addition, if 80% DO have black blood in them why would I say ALL have black blood in them? Do the math son. :dead:
Listen, you are saying that you know for a fact that you don't have ANY other blood in your veins. Again, my question to you is HOW did you come to this conclusion, but so far you have provided no evidence to validate this claim other than "I asked around and I was told blah blah blah." You don't know ANYTHING about the people past your great great grandparents, so who's to say that you DON'T have any other blood in your veins?
No one could do what? Go back 200 to 300 years to see who their families are? If no one can do it why do you have royal families dating back to the middle ages? LMAO! If no one can do it why do we have geneaology services? Certain people CAN'T do it because of circumstance and lack of information pertaining to records and birth (most black people), but surely someone who claims to be "pure" would have NO PROBLEM dating back to the ice age. lol!
These are lies from the pit of hell. Show me ONE QUOTE or INSTANCE of me claiming that black blood runs in everyone and I'll leave this board for good. Son, stop making false accusations fallacies to prove your point. I can't speak for EDJ, but I can speak for myself when I say that you're lying and accusing me of something I didn't do. Prove your claim and post an instance of me doing it, bud.
No it DOESN'T bother me. It bothers YOU. YOU are the one who would be mentally castrated and heart broken if it was proven that you had other blood runnign through your veins. YOU are the one who said, "i cant relate to either because I am MORE than positive I have no african nor white-spanish blood in me." Again, if you have done NO real research or DNA testing has been done how are you MORE than positive? LMAO!
Listen, if you have NO DROP of white blood, NO DROP of black blood and were 100% WHATEVER IT IS YOU CLAIM TO BE, that gives me no reason to hate hearing ANYTHING. Again, lay off the fallacies and wacky assumptions, and prove your claims. YOU are the one saying YOU are MORE than positive that you don't have these two races in your blood stream, and you are basing your knowledge on something someone told you. LMAO! You don't see the irony in all of this do you? LOL!
Again, why would it bother me? Why would I be upset at you NOT having black blood in your veins? ROFL! I see no logic in your claims bud.
How many african americans DON'T have white or native blood in them?!?!?!? LMAO! This guy is in RARE FORM today....
Just curious, are you familiar with Homer vs Plessy?
Son, not only did you state you are more than positive, but you even put emphasis on MORE by typing it in all caps. More than positive usually means one is 100% positive or sure of an instance. I am MORE than positive that I am sitting in front of a 17 inch sony LCD and not a 19 inch acer. I am MORE than positive that the two keyboards to the left are a korg karma and xp 60 and that the keyboard and machine to the right of me is a motif es6 and an mp-7. I am MORE than positive that I have a ten dollar bill sitting on my desk and that the bill is next to a JBL control 1 monitor. I am more than positive that the sound module in front of me says PROTEUS 2000. Do you get what I'm saying here, bud?
Again, if you are proclaiming that you are MORE than positive, and use caps to place emphasis on it, that would lead any sensible and rational reader to conclude that you are claiming that the statement is factual and beyond any doubt.
see above.
But according to you I don't believe it is possible for mexicans to not have black blood so which is it? Do I have a take or don't I? LOL!
On certain sides of my family this is true, and considering the fact that the knowledge is limited it would be absurd to make the claim that I am MOST positive that their ISN'T a particular bloodline running through my veins.
Again, you are relying to fallacies to prove your point. Son, you just said I don't have a position but now you're saying I would sit back and claim "yep we're all black". In addition, if 80% DO have black blood in them why would I say ALL have black blood in them? Do the math son. :dead: