ITS UGLY FOR INDEPENDENT ARTISTS.....

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Jan 2, 2006
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Hustle in hard times
Pinging the Bay Area rap business, version .08
BY BILLY JAM
Wednesday December 10, 2008

U Don't Hustle U Don't Eat, the appropriate title of the March 2009 album by up-and-coming Menlo Park-East Palo Alto rapper A.G. Cubano, pretty much sums up the state of the once vibrantly lucrative local rap music economy. Profit-wise, it has steadily slid and deteriorated during the past decade amid an extremely tough and competitive environment, forcing artists into creative ways of generating cash.

"It's ugly out there," said Walter Zelnick of City Hall Records in San Rafael, which has distributed independent local hip-hop since its beginnings in the 1980s. "Numbers are down all around. The numbers of stores out there are down. I don't think kids even buy CDs anymore." San Francisco's Open Mind Music, which closed on Halloween, and Streetlight Records in Noe Valley, which closes Jan. 31, are just two of latest retail victims.

"Just getting in the stores is hard as fuck nowadays.

I didn't realize it had gotten so bad," said Dave Paul, whose prolific long-time local indie label just released the Bay Area artists-filled Bomb Hip-Hop Compilation, Vol. 2, a sequel to the 1994 premier volume, which sold way more than the "maybe 600 or 700 CDs" he expects to move of the new disc.

Zelnick also fondly recalls the golden 1990s when local rap compilations like D-Shot's Boss Ballin' (Shot, 1995) and Master P's West Coast Bad Boyz: Anotha Level of the Game (No Limit, 1995) would sell in numbers that now often qualify as No. 1 on Billboard's national pop albums chart. "When [E-40's group] the Click first came out, they were selling over a 100,000. But then sales for artists went down to 50,000 or 40,000," Zelnick said. Now "average CD sales are more like 2,000. And many people are lucky to sell that."

"It's not as nearly as easy as it once was out here when we could fuck around and sell 50-, 60-, 70,000 copies independently," said longtime Fillmore rapper San Quinn who just released From a Boy to a Man (SMC) and will soon follow up with the collaborative Welcome to Scokland (Ehust1.com) with Keak da Sneak. "I literally grew up in this Bay Area independent rap scene."

Known for his affiliation with JT the Bigga Figga's Get Low Playaz and more recently for his ongoing feud with his cousin rapper Messy Marv, the 30-year-old rapper is a well-established artist. But even a high-profile performer like Quinn accepts that he will be lucky if he sells the 22,000 that his last solo CD, The Rock: Pressure Makes Diamonds (SMC) tracked on SoundScan. That was in 2006, two long digital years ago. As with many veteran rappers, downloaded music has hurt San Quinn. "The majority of my fans are white boys and Latinos and Asians that have that shit mastered," he said. "And it's even harder for someone like me who is based out of the capitol of technology here in the Bay Area, home of Silicon Valley."

"Since the selling of CDs in stores has gone down, way down, everyone has had to step up their game," Cubano said. Two months before the release of U Don't Hustle U Don't Eat, the shrewd rapper will pave

the way with the Feet to the Street mixtape in collaboration with Oakland's Demolition Men, the accurately self-described "Bay Area mixtape kings," whose trusted brand has helped further fuel the careers of such local rap faves as J-Stalin, the Jacka, and Shady Nate. San Quinn and the Jacka, as well as C-BO and Matt Blaque, are among the names the ever-resourceful Cubano has enlisted for his upcoming releases.

"But then there are so many different ways to make money nowadays," Cubano added. "You can get money out of ringtones. You can sell your songs one at a time for $1 a piece on iTunes or from your MySpace even now. I love MySpace. It is great in so many ways, like connecting with artists straight away and not beat around the bush, waiting for a phone call, or waiting for a nightclub to see someone."

MySpace is also San Quinn's lifeline where, the rapper said, his music's daily plays are in the thousands. San Quinn generates money beyond CD and digital music sales. "I do ringtones. I do shows. I have a San Quinn skateboard that I put out through FTC," the rapper said. "On our first pressing we just had, I sold a thousand skateboards at $50 a piece and I get $25 off every skateboard.

He also makes a tidy income doing guest appearances or "features" on other artists releases ("They pay me for a verse"). "I've done over 3,000 features," he said of the feat that earned him an inclusion in Guinness World Records for the most collaborations with other artists. Landing on television or video game soundtracks can be highly profitable but also highly competitive.

But for an up-and-coming Bay Area hip-hop artist, it is even more challenging to make a buck. On one recent evening on the Pittsburg/Bay Point-to-San Francisco BART train, Macsen Apollo of Oakland's V.E.R.A. Clique was putting a new spin on the "dirt hustlin'" sales approach pioneered in the 1990s by Hobo Junction and Mystik Journeymen by walking from car to car hawking copies of his hip-hop group's CD, keeping a watchful eye out for BART police, in an effort to make some money from his music.

Meanwhile back at the City Hall Records offices and warehouse, where Zelnick works on orders for new releases from local rap cats Balance and Thizz artist Duna, things have changed a lot in a decade. "We're really at a turning point here," he said. "We're still here and someone is buying music, but I don't know how much longer." Last week in the UK, with just a few weeks till Christmas, Britain's key indie label distribution company Pinnacle Entertainment declared bankruptcy, leaving 400 imprints with no way to get their music into the diminishing number of music retail stores.

"Next year I 'm going to put out Return of the DJ, Vol. 6 and that will be the final physical release I will ever do," said Bomb's Paul, who believes the only way for rap artists to make money is to be increasingly innovative and to constantly tour and sell merchandise, including music, along the way. "In the very near future I think the only place left to buy a CD is to go a show. Artists have to come up with new ways to generate cash. I heard of some artists who will sell backstage passes for $300 — or whatever they can get."

Cubano concurs. "If you're sitting around waiting for that call, it ain't gonna come," he quipped. "You have to get out there. You gotta be in traffic. People have to expand their hustle. Otherwise you don't eat."
 

CoopDVill

Super Moderator
May 4, 2003
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#4
"Next year I 'm going to put out Return of the DJ, Vol. 6 and that will be the final physical release I will ever do," said Bomb's Paul, who believes the only way for rap artists to make money is to be increasingly innovative and to constantly tour and sell merchandise, including music, along the way. "In the very near future I think the only place left to buy a CD is to go a show. Artists have to come up with new ways to generate cash. I heard of some artists who will sell backstage passes for $300 — or whatever they can get."

Cubano concurs. "If you're sitting around waiting for that call, it ain't gonna come," he quipped. "You have to get out there. You gotta be in traffic. People have to expand their hustle. Otherwise you don't eat."
This about sums it up...imo
 
Jul 22, 2003
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Who makes money selling any CD's anymore as independent?

I dont think many people.

and the cds that are sold probley go to costs..maybe not recording but making the cd, beats, features, promo, videos,

doesnt seem like theres any money in it at all,

DVD's and shows maybe but not physical cd product
 

Mr Ceza

Xplosive Magazine
Jul 10, 2002
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"But for an up-and-coming Bay Area hip-hop artist, it is even more challenging to make a buck. On one recent evening on the Pittsburg/Bay Point-to-San Francisco BART train, Macsen Apollo of Oakland's V.E.R.A. Clique was putting a new spin on the "dirt hustlin'" sales approach pioneered in the 1990s by Hobo Junction and Mystik Journeymen by walking from car to car hawking copies of his hip-hop group's CD, keeping a watchful eye out for BART police, in an effort to make some money from his music."

Check him out at myspace.com/veraclique
 
Aug 1, 2004
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uh..oh...

This is horrible news...

Artists might have to resort to making good music again ....j/k (not really)

Seriously though...if your only in this game for the money and bullshit just do all of us that have it in our heart a favor and dip.

I'll continue to create music in some form or another for the rest of my life wether I sell nil or a mil.

If your not prepared to deal with the fact that your fantasy of "rap stardom" with all the riches and fame that you think you deserve might not come true then you dont belong in this game.

Theres plenty of warm hummble pie to go around.
 
Aug 1, 2004
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on a side note....

It's funny to me that record sales are at an all time low yet flossy-ness and materialism in songs and videos ect. is at an all time high.....hmm
 
May 25, 2005
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uh..oh...

This is horrible news...

Artists might have to resort to making good music again ....j/k (not really)

Seriously though...if your only in this game for the money and bullshit just do all of us that have it in our heart a favor and dip.

I'll continue to create music in some form or another for the rest of my life wether I sell nil or a mil.

If your not prepared to deal with the fact that your fantasy of "rap stardom" with all the riches and fame that you think you deserve might not come true then you dont belong in this game.

Theres plenty of warm hummble pie to go around.
Now thats some real shit right there...on a side note, sadly i dont think that anyone "steppin their game up" is gonna change much. Too many punk ass spoiled youngsters think all this shit should be handed to them and take it for granted. So even though musically it'll be better for the art, I unfortunately still dont believe it'll change much significantly on the sales end.
 
Jan 2, 2006
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it just means artists are gonna have to work extra hard and be more creative on their approach to make a living off music. Quality is job #1. the day of cds bring the new flyer is damn near here.

on some real shit to the fans, if yall really feel someones music. BUY IT. point blank no chaser. There is a symbiotic relationship between artist and fans. neither can exist with out the other. support your local economy.....that means local mom and pop shops, hood stores, restaurants, etc. Keep the money circulating in your community. thats one of the reasons the bay area has been able to sustain an independent lifestyle. just remember everytime you buy from a major retail outlet the majority of that money goes back to headquarters which i guarantee is not in your hood.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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thats how it is here in gary. lots of talent, major talent, but resources are none. I guess it's global now. We use to have 6 7 moms and pops now we got 2. and they sell more cd-r mixes than legit cd's.
ONE
 
Nov 25, 2003
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#19
GORILLA GANG-100% SAV

HUSTLAS MAKE MONEY...SUCCAS DON'T.....THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS IN THIS GAME 2 GET IT BUT IF YOU DEPEND ON SOMEBODY 2 PAY YOU,YOU'LL NEVER GET IT..QUALITY ALWAYS MATTERS & CALIFORNIA HAS BEEN KNOWN IN THE PAST 4 GOOD QUALITY MUSIC....THINGS HAVE CHANGED BECUZ THE MUSIC CHANGED...I STICC 2 THE SCRIPT & DO WHAT I WAS BORN 2 DO...EVERYBODY LOSES FANS BUT THE WINNERS IN THE GAME ARE THE ONES WHO ARE GOOD AT CREATING FAN & ARE TRUE 2 WHAT THEY DO...MONEY IS ESSENTIAL OR ELSE YOU DON'T OPERATE A BUSINESS!!WE ALL GOT HEART IN IT...BUT THE BAY WAS ONE OF THE TOP MARKETS 10 YEARS AGO...SALESWISE & ACTIVITY...BUT THE BALL HAS BOUNCED DOWN SOUTH & THE SUPPORT SYSTEM HERE HASN'T BEEN SOLID ENOUGH 2 TAKE IT BACC....I SAY WE ALL GOT WORK 2 DO...YOU EITHER LOVE IT OR HATE IT..AS LONG AS THE FAKES & SNAKES STAY OUT THE WAY THE REAL NIGGAS IN THE GAME WILL GET WHAT THEY DESERVE...WE HAVE 2 TURN NEGATIVES INTO POSITIVES CUZ SOMETIMES IT DOES FEEL LIKE THE WALLS ARE CLOSIN IN ON US AS INDEPENDENTS...BUT WHO DOES HAVE A SUCCESSFUL MAJOR DEAL NOWDAYS ANYWAY???(I'M INTERESTED IN THAT KNOWLEDGE)
 

MR. CLEEN

CEO/Producer of E&K Music Group
Apr 25, 2002
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Tay put it as simple as possible, if you love what you doin, then you stick to the script til the wheels begin to turn for you. The mirage of the Get Quick scheme has been exposed for the fraud it was, and now only the strong survive in these hard times, but honestly that's a good thing. This is when you find out if you built for this game. Alot of cats get on here and talk bad about the rap game soon as they find out they have no place in this game in the first place. They get to talkin about how all their other life's ventures pay em more than the rap game any way. Well good for you. Any real muthafucka should have other business interest outside of music anyway, but that don't mean you shit on the game other people's dream, cause this shit is real to some of us. Too many people followin what the news feed you. The majors want the independents to give up so they can monopolize on the available money and resources out there. If anything is time for the OG's to take the available talent under their wing and start giving them game on what it takes to be more than just a artist. All these fly by nights either dig in deep and go for the ride or get the fuck out the way. In the end, the real gonna shine so if you ready to grind and smarten up your moves, by all means keep playin the game. Would you stop playin basket ball just becasue you couldn't make it to the league? Would you stop playing a musical instrument just because you were not a member of a successful traveling band. Then why would you quit rappin because you may not be the top bread winner in the game. If you love what you do, then that is the bottom line to it all. Me personally, I'm 20 years in and if money was the deciding factor, then I know I wasn't keepin it real to me and mine, and should be ashamed. It's alot of fakes and frauds in life, so the real keep sucka duckin and side steppin anyway. Hard times is when cats are at their most innovative.