Heaven with no hell?

inferno · Aug 9, 2004

@EDJ

It's ironic that you mentioned that thread because I just read it the other day. It seemed like it would never end.

Their was some interesting back and forth discussion going on. I feel it's profitable to debate or share opinions if the individuals are open and remain teachable.

Heresy provided some sound info on the topics pertaining to Hell, The 144,000 and the parables mentioned in certain passages. I also feel you held your ground defending what you have beleif to be true to you.

I do believe that no matter what faith you adhere to, that an individual can always be enlightened and the word can be illuminated to him to bring more depth to and clarity.
Its needless to quote scripture and relay passages, interpetations etc etc... without utilizing the spirit to balance your approach. The letter(Word)alone killeth, but the spirit bringeth light.(paraphrasing).

Cornelius was a prime example of one who continued to be enlighted, despite the fact that he already was a devout Jew, one who gave alms to the poor and prayed. He was encountered by two individuals who gave him a bible study and the bible says that they showed him a more excellent way. The most interesting thing to note, was the actions that preceded the bible study or conversation regarding God.

I feel the whole heaven and hell issue has been exhausted in the previous mentioned thread. The thing that I feel helps me feel secure is that I feel I have a win, win situation.

For starters if my comprehension is correct and my assesments are accurate of Heaven and Hell, then I will be on the pathway to fulfilling my goal to make it to heaven. If the possibility of there being no place of torment is what suffices, then I am still in the same position I was leading me down the narrow path towards the King of Kings.And if there is a litteral place of torment that exists regardless to what we perceive, then how does one escape this scenario once they have chosen to not to take heed to this probability.

I don't want to take away from what anyone holds to their heart as true to them. For one, It's a beautiful thing to have the ability to choose what we want to believe in and represent. Two, people are ever learning yet never coming to the knowledge of truth. Lastly, God will always have the final say no matter what our finite minds will conjure or see as debatable.

HERESY · Aug 9, 2004

I SAID I WON'T PARTAKE IN RELIGIOUS THREADS AGAIN AND I'M NOT. I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU CATS KNOW HOW INTERESTING THIS IS. EACH OF YOU HAVE PROVIDED INSIGHT AND EVERYONE IS BEING RESPECTED. I'M READING A BOOK ON HELL AS WE SPEAK. WHEN I FINISH IT I'LL GIVE YOU THE TITLE AND ISBN.

HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER WONDERED HOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER MET HAVE THIS CONCEPT OF "GOD"? OR A CONCEPT OF "HELL"? I MADE A THREAD ABOUT THE GOD CONCEPT SEVERAL WEEKS AGO. YOU CAN STILL FIND IT. DIG IT UP IF YA WANT.

:HGK:

PS I'M FEELING EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN POSTED AND SEE WHERE EACH SIDE IS COMING FROM.

inferno · Aug 9, 2004

@HERESY

I have read this book this woman wrote about hell. I also heard the actuall sermon she preached regarding the accounts she wrote in the book.

It was very interesting, she started off by saying that she wanted God to give her a deeper understanding of Hell. She felt as though all she gathered from scriptures didn't give her enough to really envision what it really is like there.

She said she went on a forty day fast, (not sure of what the actual fast consisted of.) to get a deeper understanding as well as to consecrate herself.

She goes on to mention in the fast how she had an experience(something to the degree of out of body) where god took her and showed her what she says was the body of hell. That it litterally was the shape of a body and all throughout there were countless members there, described as having a skeletal frame with a grey consitency of some kind figured to be the soul inside. The frame had tattered and torn flesh that hung from it. She goes on to mention that immediately upon arrival there while she was with Jesus, that the members there were questioning the Lord if he were there to come to free them from there torment. She mentioned the Lord showing her some of the indivuals there and how on earth they rejected him.

She also stated that one encountered the Lord and asked if he would free him from hell because he suffered for long enough. And she said that Jesus looked at the member, and with a tear coming from his eye he stated, Im sorry, but the judgement has been set.

There were many accounts were he showed her different times he tried to reach the people that were there. And how they continually rejected him until there day came. And how those that served him and later fell from the truth as trophies in hell to the devil.

She covered alot of ground, I am not proclaiming this to be what is law as far as her experience but that it was very interesting.

I covered alot of the book because I dont remember what its called and wanted to share it a little, just in case I don't find out what its called.

I also rember her saying that after that account that God also showed her glimpes of what heaven looked like.

I'll try and find it.

FunK-3-FivE · Aug 9, 2004

why put blind faith in something u have never witnessed, or expierenced simply because so many people around u have told u its true???
How is it that people can be so blind to follow something they have never seen the result of or witnessed??
You know u only believe these fables simply because u were taught them by other humans who were taught them by other humans who were taught them by other humans etc. right?
These are only opinions of mine but i refuse to believe fables of immortal humans, talking snakes, men living hundreds of years, humans with supernatural powers, oh and the most laughable is the one where god makes the earth in seven days including man (we all know for a fact the earth was billions of years old when man came into existence).
Do you realize your scriptures prove to be no more believeable than any other religion?
I'm not saying anything but to simply question somethin before u put blind faith into it.

oh wait come again? what does the bible say? i don't care what it says, it was written by humans just like u and me, maybe if i write some bullshit book like that in a couple thousand years from now people will believe it cuz its old and everyone else around them has accepted it.

inferno · Aug 10, 2004

I can only speak for myself personally, and if this were the case for me it would be a questionable case. I initially posted that I really respected an individuals belief, whatever it may be, because everyone puts ther faith into something for some reason or another.

I have to say that I aslo have witnessed and experienced first hand God intervening in my life. I can think of many occasions, but what would it profit to explain them. Only God can change ones heart, we are just vessels he uses.

I really began to take an interest in God at a very young age. I wasn't pushed but had this inate comprehension of there being a God. I remember my grandmother(R.I.P) having such a beautiful spirit.

She carried herself in such a way where, I was curious at an early age, as to what she had a hold of that gave her such peace and reasurrance.

I know there are many people that carry themselves respectfully etc..etc. Although I just felt she had so special, that as a kid it intrigued me enough began searching myself.

With that said I'm in no way trying to rely on my faith in God soley because of the character my grandmother had. I am try to show that at such a young age God had already began to deal with me. And from that point, there was no bible to rely on to use as a crutch. Niether did I blindly follow anyone, but just began to search little by little.

I think alot of the bible can become overwheming to alot of people. I will preface by saying that it takes more faith to believe there is no God than to prove he exist. The bible says that a man is a fool to look upon the face of there earth and declare theres no God.

An interesting take on God creating the earth in seven days. First, If we would agree that in the beginning that God alone existed. And that he began to create all that we know that exist today in literal days.

Then one must conclude that there had to be day and night to show representation of time(24hr cylce). In the beginning there wasn't time as we know it today but eternity. The bible aslo says that he didn't create day and night until the third day.

No sun no moon leads to no day and night no time frame. The bible does mention that a day to us is as a thousand years unto God. Several applications can be implied here. So with all this understood, you can see why it wasn't a litteral account of time that it took him to create the earth. But more of a chronolgy of the events.

Finally when the bible say the earth will be no more and the sun and moon will no longer exist you can see we will not have the 24hr cycle of time but eternity to live in. How could one see with no light from the sun nor moon. God will be the light my friend.

inferno · Aug 10, 2004

continued.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and it is a valid arguement. But it is very easy to prove the validity of the bible.

But one could care less how would it ever be profitable to engage in showing the accuracy and prophetical occurences. Science, medicine, History, Archeoloy and the Dead Sea Scrolls are a few bases to start with.

I will give 14 witnesses that there is a God from scripture some imply not to be believable.

#1. Life is in the blood
Leviticus 17:11
"For the life of the flesh is in the blood etc..

#2. The heart is the main organ in the circulatory sytem.
Proverbs 14:13
"Even in laughter the heart is sorrowful; and the end of the mirth is heavieness."

#3.The earth is hanging in outerspace
Job 26:7
"He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth over nothing.

#4. The earth is round
Isiah 40:22
"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth."

#5. There are countless stars
Jer. 33:22
"As the host of heaven cannot be numbered etc...

#6.Humans are made out of the same elements of the earthGen. 2:7
"And the Lord formed man of the dust of the earth.

#7 The way wind currents flow
Eccles.1:6
"The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about into the north it wirleth about continually and the wind returneth again according to his circuits."

#8. The cycle in which rain on land originates in water evaporated from the ocean.
Eccles. 1:7
"All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

#9. The medical world recently discovered that laughter is good for your heart. They could have discovered this a long time ago by reading the bible.
Proverbs 17:22
"A merry heart doeth good like a medicine etc.."

#10. Air has mass
Job 28:25
"To make the wieght for the winds; and wiegheth the waters by measure."

#11. The earth rotates
Luke 17:34-36
It references the rapture taking place, it also differentiates day and night, hence the rotation of the earth.

#12. God left himself not without a witness
Acts 14:17. Rom/. 1:20
Sky, rain, flood, joy, power and order.

#13. Human body and its perfection
Psalm 139:14
"I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made" etcc...

#14 Archealogical findings
Ex. 2:3
"Where there is pitch there is oil."
Moses' mother made an ark that contained bullrushes slime, and pitch, to send him down the river.

I dont know of any other book that has as many translations ever produced before in history.

It has survived criticism for thousands of years and using the references above there are some hard witnesses to refute or dispell as coincidences.

I wish that I could just say that there aren't enough truths to proove its validity to people, but God will have to intervene on my behalf of its doubters. He has been rather succesful thus far.

EDJ · Aug 10, 2004

INFERNO,

EVEN THOUgH YOU HAVE YOUR SET BELIEFS, I RESPECT YOU AND APPLAUD YOU FOR DIPLOMATICALLY COMIN' ON HERE AND EXPRESSIN' YOUR THOUgHTS. AND THAT WAS A NICE BREAKDOWN OF PROOF OF WHAT KNOWLEDgE SCRIPTURE HAS. WITHOUT A DOUBT IT IS NOT MAN-MADE LOgIC OR KNOWLEDgE. JUST THE PROOF YOU HAVE SHOWN, SHOWS IT COMIN' FROM A HIgHER SOURCE.

SO WHAT IS YOUR SET BELIEF AND WHAT BIBLE DO YOU ADHERE TO? DO YOU KNOW N-E HEBREW OR gREEK?

2-0-Sixx · Aug 10, 2004

EDJ said:

....

EDJ · Aug 10, 2004

^LOOK INTO IT. TRY TO DISPROVE IT.

inferno · Aug 10, 2004

@EDJ

I appreciate the feedback you have given. I have studied Hebrew and Greek a little. Their is so much substance behind the lanquage, and some expressions get lost in the translation.

I have relied on the KJV as well as the NKJV. But To each his own.

I know I remember reading you speak in regards to the JW organization. But I'm curious to know what is your belief system, if that wasn't what you were proclaiming.

Also, what did you adhere to prior to your faith now.

EDJ · Aug 11, 2004

INFERNO,
NO PROBLEM. YOU HAVE EARNED MY RESPECT CAUSE YOU CAME ON HERE RESPECTFULLY, NOT DENOUNCIN' NOBODY OR THEY BELIEFS, BUT STATIN' YOUR BELIEFS AND BACCIN' WHAT YOU SAY WITH FACTS.

NOW YOU STRESSED, ". I have studied Hebrew and Greek a little."
THAT'S COO'. KEEP AT IT. ONE DAY I'LL HOPEFULLY I'LL JUMP INTO IT SO I CAN LEARN FOR MYSELF WHAT IS TRANSLATED IN SCRIPTURE.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Their is so much substance behind the lanquage, and some expressions get lost in the translation."

I KNOW. THAT'S WHY THERE'S SO MANY TRANSLATIONS OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES AND DISAgREEMENTS.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I have relied on the KJV as well as the NKJV. But To each his own."

WHY THOSE VERSIONS?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I know I remember reading you speak in regards to the JW organization. But I'm curious to know what is your belief system, if that wasn't what you were proclaiming."

I DON'T LABEL WHAT I BELIEVE. BUT I'M JUST A MERE MORTAL, A SINNIN' MAN, EX-gANg-BANgER IN SEARCH OF TRUTH. THE JEHOVAHS' WITNESSES RESEARCH AND PREACH WHAT THEY HAVE RESEARCHED AND I DON'T COUNT THEM OUT AS MANY DO. I SOAK UP WHAT I CAN AND SEE FOR MYSELF IF THEY SPITTIN' FAULTY gAME OR ON TO SOMETHIN'. BUT I KEEP AN OPEN MIND AND KNOW THAT SOME OF THE THANgS THEY DO SPIT IS ACTUAL FACT BACCED BY SCRIPTURE.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Also, what did you adhere to prior to your faith now."

SINCE 89' TIL NOW, MY HOOD HAS BEEN MY FAITH.

inferno · Aug 11, 2004

@EDJ

When I was a kid, thats all that was around at my family members house. I know alot of people have trouble with the thees and thous, but it doesn't bother me. Although when I was younger it was a bit confusing.

I wish you well on your continuance to searching the depths of the Omniscient One.

Have you researched any other doctrines? And if so what other faiths interest you, as far as them being instructional and accurate?Lastly what have you researched about the JW organization that you haven't totally agreed with, if that has ever been the case for you?

FunK-3-FivE · Aug 11, 2004

inferno said:

u say it has survived criticism for thousands of years? so what, so has hundreds of other religions around the world, u need to open ur mind buddy. There are some hard witnesses to refute or dispell as coincidences in many religions, maybe if u do some research on other religions you will realize that almost ALL OF THEM DO.

I'm not tryin to argue with u or anything but some of ur points are quite laughable...

inferno said:

what does this prove?^^^^

inferno said:

..ok whats the connection besides it contains the word heart?

inferno said:

.......the universe was anything but empty when the earth came into existence, this jsut shows the old beliefs that the earth was the beginning and center of the universe

inferno said:

...spheres aren't circles maybe u need to relearn ur shapes.

inferno said:

......HAHAHAHA this is was nothing new to anyone, have u ever tried to count the stars???(384,385 oh wait did i already count that one? damnit 1,2,3) and scince stars are simply other galaxies it can not be proven there are countless numbers, or a set number for that fact.

inferno said:

....once again ur hanging on ever single word of the bible, by the way this a concept older than the bible itself, many native american religions and many other religions have believed that man was made from earth.

inferno said:

....this can be discovered by wetting your finger and placing it in the air and seeing which way the wind comes from, and if u travel (like a herder) then u might discover in different areas it varies.

inferno said:

.....no connection with the evaporation-perceptitation cycle, it seems to be suggesting instead that there is missing water...lol

inferno said:

...this is not some recent discovery u dumbass, it's been known for a longass time but with the modernization of medicine it was lost in some cases. Many cultures had made the happiness to good-health connection before the bible.

inferno said:

....if u ever passed earth systems in high school u would know that weight(not spelled wieght) and mass are 2 totally different things. anyways the quote makes more scince as a symbolic meaning.

inferno said:

....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, i think mankind has known about day and night for a long time, would u care put some quotes from this section to where it suggests a rotation of the earth taking place? Because i find it hard to believe it took us a thousand and five hundred years AFTER the bible came out for us to figure this out.

inferno said:

....Greeks believed lightning happened when Zeus was mad, do u believe that also?

inferno said:

....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

inferno said:

........i dont get what this is saying exactly as to a connection with archealogical findings...tell me the connection?

....
half ur quotes are irrelevent to science or medicine or any proof for that matter, none of these points show that a superior being had ANY influence in the writing of this book. and none of these points show shocking knowledge.

I respect ur beliefs, but i ask u to have an open-mind and maybe u will realize theres hundreds of other religions who have 'writings of god' and seem to think the same thing u do.

inferno · Aug 12, 2004

The word surving criticism for thousands of years was not an attempt to show its validity, but merely an expression that its doubters have yet to be succesful for so long to disprove its accuracy.

I have a very open mind as well. I have took comparitive religion courses as well as philosophical and psych. courses in college, to further my knowledge base. Name me one religion that has as many coincidental accounts, with a correlation of their written word, to as many references that I gave.

I refuse to argue as well, unprofitable one, although if the points made you laugh, then as I stated earlier Laughter doeth good like a medicine.

When George Washington had a cold the doctors bled him to death, thinking it would make the cold go away.(Lev. 17:11)The scripture validates that the life of our flesh is in our blood. Which is the correlation I was trying to make, scripture with actual occurence.

The connection is the heart being the base of emotion. The correlation is tying the heart to the circulatory system and the heart being sorrowful and heavy.

Would be educational insight if it were news, but the expression of the roundness of the earth, and him sitting on the circle of the earth was not an attempt by God to differentiate a sphere from a circle. His expression through translation was easily interpreted, hence circle equating round as well as spherical.

Speculative at best, with no documentation to prove otherwise.

Science itself makes the claim of there being an inumerrable amount of stars. Greek astronomers studied them B.C. and A.D., Although the correlation is scripture and factual truths that exist today.
.

inferno · Aug 12, 2004

Opinionated explanation, without literal documentaion to substantiate or prove otherwise.

Native american religions that prexist God would be a more beneficial account to me. Once again no documentation to prove otherwise. And whether anything prexisted the bible is not been an argument thus far.

Come on man, I'm a grown man no need for calling me out of my name. I will still show respect to you despite our disagreements. This point was from notes I had from a while back. I know they discovered it in the medical field not too long back, and whether it was lost in some cases is debatable at best. Which cultures made the connection before the bible?

Really has nothing to do with a correlation between the scripture and the reference I gave. No matter how one could determine direction or wind currents in times of old, this does nothing to disprove scripture.

I passed the class yes, I know the difference between the two, however the translation for the words weight and weigheth are expression of dimensions as well as numerically. Hence mass being equivalent within the text of scripture. And for the typo, i misspelled weight and you mispelled since(scince). It happens though.

There absolutely is a connection there, maybe this scripture is a little easier
Isaiah 55:10
"For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud etc.....

....Greeks believed lightning happened when Zeus was mad, do u believe that also?

It would be more asounding to know that Zeusstill existed
today.

I don't know if I have ever questioned whether mankind knew about day and night. Rather, the fact that the earth rotates on its axis and its Day for some of the world and night for other parts, seems to lend to the notion that the earth is rotating. To my recollection the sun and moon aren't.

If he says im fearfully and wonderfully made, It speaks volumes for itself. Man will never be able to clone another man. He could never give him a soul or a spirit, unlike God.

Up for debate until proven otherwise, and their is so many more accounts that reference his influence on the book.And niether have you disproved anytheing, rather add colorful commentary. This is still the only book that never changes, unlike any other piece of literature that will be introduced to try and dispute this claim. It has been the same since day one of its translation, although there are varied expressions
and interpretations of some scripture.

The respect is appreciated, and my mind remains open. Thats why I am continually researching other faiths and asking questions. And please help me with the hundereds of religions, that have writings, that have so many references to God. In correlation to today as we know it. One that even attempts to have as many prophetical occerences that have been accurate thus far.

FunK-3-FivE · Aug 12, 2004

None of your points can even be categorized under prophetical, they seem to predict nothing in future tense, and if u wanna get into prophecies there is a man who's own surpass that of the bible in both accuracy and quantity.... http://siccness.net/vb/showthread.php?t=113684

And niether have you disproved anything
....u havent proven shit anyways man, just show me something that must have had influence from a superior being.

inferno · Aug 13, 2004

If I'm not mistaken I never initially tried to use the points that were made to be prophetical. I do however remember bring up prophecy as a reference to make the point that the bible can be validated by it very easily.

I do wanna get into prophecies and Nostradamus' prophecies do not surpass that of the bible in no way.

Nostradamus prophecy was written primarily in French, although he threw in some Latin, Greek and Italian to murk some meanings. He also used other devices to obscure his quatrains, including symbols, metaphors and purposely-misspelled words. Most interestingly, many of the so-called Nostradamus prophecies circulating today are merely urban legends -- often his original quatrains are cut and splice to sound good after major world events. For instance, shortly after the September 11th terrorist attacks in the U.S., a large number of alleged Nostradamus prophecies began circulating the Internet and news media. Here are a few of them:

"In the year of the new century and nine months, From the sky will come a great King of Terror... The sky will burn at forty-five degrees. Fire approaches the great new city..."

"In the city of York there will be a great collapse, two twin brothers torn apart by chaos while the fortress falls the great leader will succumb third big war will begin when the big city is burning"

"It has been foreseen that exactly three hundred and fifty years into the future, Silver phoenixes shall strike down the twin brothers of oppression That carried the king's nation, which shall bring upon the apocalypse. In the City of God there will be a great thunder, two brothers torn apart by chaos"
So, did Nostradamus predict the attacks against the Twin Towers in New York? No, Nostradamus didn't write these quatrains - they were tweaked and twisted to somewhat match the event. For example, the first one says "In the year of the new century and nine months," but Nostradamus' original quatrain reads, "In the year 1999 and seven months, from the skies shall come an alarming powerful king" (Century 10:72). Neither is there a mention of "twin brothers" being "torn apart." The quatrain actually says, "Two royal brothers shall war so much one against the other" (Century 3:97). Finally, as for collapsing in the city of York and the sky burning, this is as close as he gets: "The heaven shall burn at five and forty degrees, the fire shall come near the great new city... when they shall make a trial of the Normans" (Century 6:97). Nostradamus never even mentioned the words "fortress" or "big war."

The Lord himself even makes his own challenge in reference to prophecy
Isaiah 41:21
'Present your case,' says the LORD. 'Bring forth your strong reasons... Let them bring forth and show us what will happen... declare to us things to come. Show the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that you are gods... Indeed you are nothing, and your work is nothing; He who chooses you is an abomination.

Where do we begin?
The Septuagint, The dead sea scrolls, The archeaological proof, The prophecies of Daniel that were 200 hundred B.C. and were included in the dead sea scrolls.

The messianic prophecies etc.. I haven't touched on these in depth yet, but I am ready to further entertain your replies.

EDJ · Aug 13, 2004

^I DIg YOUR STYLE AND INSIgHT. NOT ONLY DO YOU REMAIN COOL, CALM, AND COLLECTIVE, BUT YOU STAND YOUR gROUND.

BUT TO ANSWER YOUR INITIAL COMMENTS TO ME,

YOU STRESSED, "When I was a kid, thats all that was around at my family members house."

SO YOU SAYIN' YOU WON'T USE OR COMPARE TO N-E OTHA BIBLE CAUSE THAT'S ALL YOU KNOW?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I know alot of people have trouble with the thees and thous, but it doesn't bother me."

I'M THE STRAIgHT OPPOSITE. WE DON'T TALK LIKE THAT, SO WHY HOLD A LANgUAgE THAT IS DEAD AND WASN'T THE ORIgINAL LANgUAgE(S) OF THE BIBLE? IT'S LIKE IF YOU UPHOLDIN' OLD ENgLISH AS A HOLY LANgUAgE AND gIVIN' THE PERCEPTION THAT THAT LANgUAgE IS HOW THE BIBLE SHOULD BE SPOKEN.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Although when I was younger it was a bit confusing."

THE WORD SHOULDN'T BE CONFUSIN'.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I wish you well on your continuance to searching the depths of the Omniscient One."

THANKS PLAYA, RIgHT BAK AT YOU.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Have you researched any other doctrines?"

DOCTRINES AS IN BELIEFS, OR ARE YOU REFERRIN' TO DOCTRINES AS OTHA RELIgIONS?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "And if so what other faiths interest you, as far as them being instructional and accurate?"

NOT ONE SET OF RELIgIONS INTEREST ME, BUT FACTS THEY HELD AND TAUgHT ON CERTAIN TOPICS. LIKE THE MUSLIMS BELIEVIN' IN THE ONENESS OF THE ALMIgHTY ONE INSTEAD OF THE TRINITY. ONLY THANg THAT gETS ME WITH MUSLIMS IS THE BOOK WRITTEN AFTER THE BIBLE. THERE'S OTHAS BUT I WON'T BABBLE ON.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Lastly what have you researched about the JW organization that you haven't totally agreed with, if that has ever been the case for you?"

A FEW THANgS ABOUT APOSTATES IN THEY ORgANIZATION WHO FOOLED A gRIP OF PEOPLE. FROM gIVIN' DATES OF THE END OF THE WORLD TO SPEAKIN' AgAINST SOME BIBLE BELIEFS. BUT I DON'T HOLD THAT AgAINST THE ORgANIZATION, BUT THE PERSON(S) WHO DEVIATED FROM THAT. ALSO, I DON'T AgREE WITH SOME OF THEIR ORgANIZATIONS RULES BUT THEN AgAIN, IMPERFECT MEN ARE IMPERFECT AND ONLY (gOD) KNOWS YOUR HEART.

FunK-3-FivE · Aug 13, 2004

inferno said:

If I'm not mistaken I never initially tried to use the points that were made to be prophetical. I do however remember bring up prophecy as a reference to make the point that the bible can be validated by it very easily.

I do wanna get into prophecies and Nostradamus' prophecies do not surpass that of the bible in no way.

Nostradamus prophecy was written primarily in French, although he threw in some Latin, Greek and Italian to murk some meanings. He also used other devices to obscure his quatrains, including symbols, metaphors and purposely-misspelled words. Most interestingly, many of the so-called Nostradamus prophecies circulating today are merely urban legends -- often his original quatrains are cut and splice to sound good after major world events. For instance, shortly after the September 11th terrorist attacks in the U.S., a large number of alleged Nostradamus prophecies began circulating the Internet and news media. Here are a few of them:

"In the year of the new century and nine months, From the sky will come a great King of Terror... The sky will burn at forty-five degrees. Fire approaches the great new city..."

"In the city of York there will be a great collapse, two twin brothers torn apart by chaos while the fortress falls the great leader will succumb third big war will begin when the big city is burning"

"It has been foreseen that exactly three hundred and fifty years into the future, Silver phoenixes shall strike down the twin brothers of oppression That carried the king's nation, which shall bring upon the apocalypse. In the City of God there will be a great thunder, two brothers torn apart by chaos"
So, did Nostradamus predict the attacks against the Twin Towers in New York? No, Nostradamus didn't write these quatrains - they were tweaked and twisted to somewhat match the event. For example, the first one says "In the year of the new century and nine months," but Nostradamus' original quatrain reads, "In the year 1999 and seven months, from the skies shall come an alarming powerful king" (Century 10:72). Neither is there a mention of "twin brothers" being "torn apart." The quatrain actually says, "Two royal brothers shall war so much one against the other" (Century 3:97). Finally, as for collapsing in the city of York and the sky burning, this is as close as he gets: "The heaven shall burn at five and forty degrees, the fire shall come near the great new city... when they shall make a trial of the Normans" (Century 6:97). Nostradamus never even mentioned the words "fortress" or "big war."

The Lord himself even makes his own challenge in reference to prophecy
Isaiah 41:21
'Present your case,' says the LORD. 'Bring forth your strong reasons... Let them bring forth and show us what will happen... declare to us things to come. Show the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that you are gods... Indeed you are nothing, and your work is nothing; He who chooses you is an abomination.

Where do we begin?
The Septuagint, The dead sea scrolls, The archeaological proof, The prophecies of Daniel that were 200 hundred B.C. and were included in the dead sea scrolls.

The messianic prophecies etc.. I haven't touched on these in depth yet, but I am ready to further entertain your replies.

The shit i posted i got from a book written by a Nostradamian student (by the way most students of Nostradamus already speak french or they learn it, because learning a translated version would only screw up interpretations).... in my post i refered to the rumors that Nostradamus predicted the fall of the twin towers, and how these rumors were false. So you were argueing a case that simply didn't exist.

inferno · Aug 13, 2004

Thank you for the compliment, my parents as well as God are responsible for the strong influence on the respect I have.

Not at all, actually I have used those versions and have done alot of comparisons. Although it was what I was first introduced to. I still have like few other books of different beliefs that i reference and study to try and see where they stand on certain issues.

What I meant was, I've heard alot of friends tell me they can't understand it because of the Old English style, which I understand. And that for me I have no trouble comprehending it.

The translations of the King James Version was translated in a certain manner much different than other translations. The methods in which the scholars translated the manuscripts was word for word to come to the closest account. Other methods that were used was by paraphrasing and making revisions that seemed suitable to the others that attempted also to translate the word.

This is not the sole reason I use it, but It doesn't hurt to know it is the most accurate translation, Although others may see this as debatable, I still will cross-reference other version.

As a kid there were many parts of the bible that were easily comprehended. When I began to read Ezekiel, Daniel and Leviticus etcc... I had a had time with the comprehension of a lot of the text. Not the Old English itself, just like any other book that could have been overwhelming to a degree, based on the level of my comprehension.

In reference to both, with them being interchangable. ie.. faith, teachings belief system.

Heaven with no hell?

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THE HIDDEN HAND...

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