Have you ever been ashamed of your heritage, culture, or up bringing?

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Mar 1, 2006
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#41
JLMACN said:
Then she is not a natural Mexican. :)

5000
You trippin or you aint been to mexico before because my family on my pops side have colored eyes. My uncle who is the biggest paisa has green eyes and is hella dark, others have blue eyes even my niece. We aint your average sized mexicans and both my grandma and grandpa are from mexico and always have been. I dunno what u mean by "natural" mexican but my grandperents were dirt poor living in a secluded rancho in the hills of zacatecas, hell my grandpa even came to the U.S to work on the Hoover dam.

Like enserio said im not ashamed of my heritage or anything like that, its the people who are glued to novelas like its the only thing in the world to do and brainwash their kids into watching this shit when in reality they shouldnt even be watching that shit which usually consists of sex and scheming about how to get a dude, then they wonder why their daughters are little whores having kids at age 14.
 
Aug 26, 2002
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#43
You trippin or you aint been to mexico before because my family on my pops side have colored eyes. My uncle who is the biggest paisa has green eyes and is hella dark, others have blue eyes even my niece. We aint your average sized mexicans and both my grandma and grandpa are from mexico and always have been. I dunno what u mean by "natural" mexican but my grandperents were dirt poor living in a secluded rancho in the hills of zacatecas, hell my grandpa even came to the U.S to work on the Hoover dam.
I was just fucking around with Kayvee.

Like enserio said im not ashamed of my heritage or anything like that, its the people who are glued to novelas like its the only thing in the world to do and brainwash their kids into watching this shit when in reality they shouldnt even be watching that shit which usually consists of sex and scheming about how to get a dude, then they wonder why their daughters are little whores having kids at age 14.
I thought most people watch Univision for the bitches??
 
Aug 6, 2006
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#45
[-KoRp$-]559 said:
You trippin or you aint been to mexico before because my family on my pops side have colored eyes. My uncle who is the biggest paisa has green eyes and is hella dark, others have blue eyes even my niece. We aint your average sized mexicans and both my grandma and grandpa are from mexico and always have been. I dunno what u mean by "natural" mexican but my grandperents were dirt poor living in a secluded rancho in the hills of zacatecas, hell my grandpa even came to the U.S to work on the Hoover dam.

Like enserio said im not ashamed of my heritage or anything like that, its the people who are glued to novelas like its the only thing in the world to do and brainwash their kids into watching this shit when in reality they shouldnt even be watching that shit which usually consists of sex and scheming about how to get a dude, then they wonder why their daughters are little whores having kids at age 14.
Why don't people realize that "Mexican" isn't a "race", and 600 years ago there was no monotypic group referred to as "Mexicans"? Mexico is an amalgamation of various ethnicities, at varying levels of miscegenation. The point is that Blue eyes, blond hair, and pale skin are not attributes commonly recognized among the "indigenous" populations of the Americas and are more common among Northwest Europeans and many of the Spanish. Blue or green eyes are extremely rare recessive traits that were the result of select mutations among modern humans who populated Europe sometime during the last glacial maximum. By the time these traits were being spread across Europe, there is evidence that the Americas were already being peopled by ancient Siberians crossing the Bering straight, people who had nothing to do with the mutations of some isolated population in Northern Europe or the Caucasus or darker skinned Africans for that matter(but maybe Australoid Negrito types). .

So while JLMAC may not be prepared to defend his "natural Mexican" theory, I will as I am pretty confident that Mexico is a lot more diverse phenotypically than it was 1,000 years ago due to foreign admixture. In other words, Mexicans with Blue eyes and blond hair are Mexican in nationality, but not in biological origin or by genetic lineage(they may be, but those features are not). "Natural" meaning (for the most part) biologically and culturally indigenous, being coextensive with other Native Americans, so if Geronimo or Sitting Bull did not have blue eyes and Blond hair, then neither should "natural" Mexicans...
 
Aug 6, 2006
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#46
^That's the roots of the caste here. The closer to Europeans you are, the higher you are on the caste. I don't appreciate any light skinned Afrikan who shits on darker complexioned ones, nor do I appreciate any Mexicans who shit on Native Americans, the shit is self hatred and ultimately, in comparison, they still occupy a caste position below actual Europeans, so this is just selling out.
 
Mar 1, 2006
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#48
ParkBoyz said:
Why don't people realize that "Mexican" isn't a "race", and 600 years ago there was no monotypic group referred to as "Mexicans"? Mexico is an amalgamation of various ethnicities, at varying levels of miscegenation. The point is that Blue eyes, blond hair, and pale skin are not attributes commonly recognized among the "indigenous" populations of the Americas and are more common among Northwest Europeans and many of the Spanish. Blue or green eyes are extremely rare recessive traits that were the result of select mutations among modern humans who populated Europe sometime during the last glacial maximum. By the time these traits were being spread across Europe, there is evidence that the Americas were already being peopled by ancient Siberians crossing the Bering straight, people who had nothing to do with the mutations of some isolated population in Northern Europe or the Caucasus or darker skinned Africans for that matter(but maybe Australoid Negrito types). .

So while JLMAC may not be prepared to defend his "natural Mexican" theory, I will as I am pretty confident that Mexico is a lot more diverse phenotypically than it was 1,000 years ago due to foreign admixture. In other words, Mexicans with Blue eyes and blond hair are Mexican in nationality, but not in biological origin or by genetic lineage(they may be, but those features are not). "Natural" meaning (for the most part) biologically and culturally indigenous, being coextensive with other Native Americans, so if Geronimo or Sitting Bull did not have blue eyes and Blond hair, then neither should "natural" Mexicans...
I get what you are saying but I think there is more to this than a historical view. My grandperents had a huge family like 15 kids or more not sure and some died from diseases and other natural causes when they were young. You can expect a lot of this because they lived in a rancho, so they kept having kids because as we all know farm families need numbers to keep the shit running. My grandperents don't have any traits in there appearance that is blue eyes or blond hair so it has to be biology playing a bigger part in this because my oldest uncle got green eyes with dark brown hair and is brown and my youngest aunt has blue eyes with light brown hair but is lighter.

What nhojsmith said about lighter skin being a hierarchy based upon skin tone has always been prevalent in Mexico since the beginning. So if my pops family was more white like the northwest Europeans then that would put them in a higher class in Mexico, but it isn't the case here is it? I think the more kids you have the further your family line goes in appearance of your ancestors genes. Also honestly think they probably are from the Siberian people who crossed the Bering strait because a lot of em migrated south for better tempetures through time.
 
Aug 26, 2002
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#49
Why don't people realize that "Mexican" isn't a "race", and 600 years ago there was no monotypic group referred to as "Mexicans"? Mexico is an amalgamation of various ethnicities, at varying levels of miscegenation. The point is that Blue eyes, blond hair, and pale skin are not attributes commonly recognized among the "indigenous" populations of the Americas and are more common among Northwest Europeans and many of the Spanish. Blue or green eyes are extremely rare recessive traits that were the result of select mutations among modern humans who populated Europe sometime during the last glacial maximum. By the time these traits were being spread across Europe, there is evidence that the Americas were already being peopled by ancient Siberians crossing the Bering straight, people who had nothing to do with the mutations of some isolated population in Northern Europe or the Caucasus or darker skinned Africans for that matter(but maybe Australoid Negrito types). .
So Mexican and Africa have much in common then?
So while JLMAC may not be prepared to defend his "natural Mexican" theory, I will as I am pretty confident that Mexico is a lot more diverse phenotypically than it was 1,000 years ago due to foreign admixture. In other words, Mexicans with Blue eyes and blond hair are Mexican in nationality, but not in biological origin or by genetic lineage(they may be, but those features are not). "Natural" meaning (for the most part) biologically and culturally indigenous, being coextensive with other Native Americans, so if Geronimo or Sitting Bull did not have blue eyes and Blond hair, then neither should "natural" Mexicans...
yea....what he said... :)

5000
 

Defy

Cannabis Connoisseur
Jan 23, 2006
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#50
when I was young I was ashamed my dad was white....mainly cuz it made me so light skinned that it was hard to be accepted by other races, because I was too light to be black and obviously not white, and I look latino but can't speak a lick of spanish.....once I hit high school and shit I got over it tho
 
Aug 6, 2006
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#51
WHITE DEVIL said:
pfft. So you proved me right.

lol
^Incoherent. I have no idea whatsoever how you came to this conclusion, but have fun anyways.:cool:


[-KoRp$-]559 said:
I get what you are saying but I think there is more to this than a historical view. My grandperents had a huge family like 15 kids or more not sure and some died from diseases and other natural causes when they were young. You can expect a lot of this because they lived in a rancho, so they kept having kids because as we all know farm families need numbers to keep the shit running. My grandperents don't have any traits in there appearance that is blue eyes or blond hair so it has to be biology playing a bigger part in this because my oldest uncle got green eyes with dark brown hair and is brown and my youngest aunt has blue eyes with light brown hair but is lighter.
^Sounds like a complex miscegenation of foreign and indigenous traits... We see this same type of variation within the Black and Creole communities.

What nhojsmith said about lighter skin being a hierarchy based upon skin tone has always been prevalent in Mexico since the beginning. So if my pops family was more white like the northwest Europeans then that would put them in a higher class in Mexico, but it isn't the case here is it? I think the more kids you have the further your family line goes in appearance of your ancestors genes. Also honestly think they probably are from the Siberian people who crossed the Bering strait because a lot of em migrated south for better tempetures through time.
The fact that changes occur along generational lines through time is a given it would seem, however my inference was merely based on the fact that isolated aboriginal people of the Americas who are known to have not been subjected to as much foreign incursion through out history, still retain the trademark or stereotyped features of their ancestors to a relatively higher degree. However, in places like Puerto rico, Mexico, and many other parts of Latin America where outside influence has been great, it isn't surprising to come across Latin people with African, European, or native ancestry at varying degrees, along with maybe some foreign ideologies based on social/racial hierarchy as was introduced by Europeans.


JLMACN said:
So Mexican and Africa have much in common then?
^Socially, yes, I would have to agree..
 
Oct 1, 2006
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#52
ParkBoyz said:
Why don't people realize that "Mexican" isn't a "race", and 600 years ago there was no monotypic group referred to as "Mexicans"?
What the 'Aztec' people called themselves [In reality the Aztecas were composed of 8 North American tribes -one being the Hopi people that settled in the southwest] were MEXICA or Mexicayotl [Meh-shee-Kah] when the Spanish came they called them 'Mexicanos' [Mejicanos]. When Mexico gained its independence from Spain the people took the name MEXICO in honor of its vast indigenous ancestry.

MEXICA-TIAHUI.

TROLL said:
i was dissapointed to here that mexico helped capture geronimo and kill indians for the U.S.
Yep I am ashamed that the Mexican govt. would order that but I am not surprised.. just as I'm not surprised that the Mexican govt. has for a long time been killing off the Indigenous people from its own land simply because they were standing up to years of opression.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#54
Honestyiskey said:
What the 'Aztec' people called themselves [In reality the Aztecas were composed of 8 North American tribes -one being the Hopi people that settled in the southwest] were MEXICA or Mexicayotl [Meh-shee-Kah] when the Spanish came they called them 'Mexicanos' [Mejicanos]. When Mexico gained its independence from Spain the people took the name MEXICO in honor of its vast indigenous ancestry.

MEXICA-TIAHUI.
Can you list these 8 tribes and where exactly they were located?
 
Aug 6, 2006
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#55
^I know what you meant JLMACN..

Honestyiskey said:
What the 'Aztec' people called themselves [In reality the Aztecas were composed of 8 North American tribes -one being the Hopi people that settled in the southwest] were MEXICA or Mexicayotl [Meh-shee-Kah] when the Spanish came they called them 'Mexicanos' [Mejicanos]. When Mexico gained its independence from Spain the people took the name MEXICO in honor of its vast indigenous ancestry.

MEXICA-TIAHUI.
If so, I'd doubt that they included the peripheral tribes as a part of the "Mexica" confederation of tribes though. The Navajo and Apache referred to themselves as Dine(The people), however, I'm not sure if they had any biological conceptions of "race" as an arbitrary blanket term, used in the sense that we use it today.. More like regional and cultural identity.
 
Oct 1, 2006
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#56
HERESY said:
Can you list these 8 tribes and where exactly they were located?
Unfortunately I havent had the chance to read many codices so I dont know but of the Hopi peoples being one of them I know that is true as i've not only heard it from my people or history but from the Hopi elders as well.

The Hopi run into the land of Quetzalcoatl
Posted: April 06, 2006
by: Roberto Rodriguez / Indian Country Today

Hopi runners in green shirts came in through Chapultepec Park and came to a stop in front of the statue of Tlaloc - the ancient spirit of water and rain.

There, they were received by traditional leaders and elders, marking the end of their two-week, 2,000-mile historic water run into Mexico-Anahuac. During the ceremony, they were also greeted by a descending eagle.

It will probably take years to fully comprehend the significance of some 60 members of the Hopi Nation in Mexico (more than half of them runners) delivering a message to the world regarding the sacredness of water.

The runners came from 12 desert villages, some of which, such as Oraibi, are actually older than Tenochtitlan, founded in 1325 A.D. In the Hopi mesas, the water is scarce and threatened by mining corporations that for decades have extracted and contaminated their underground waters. Despite this, their maize grows. Always.

I left to my birthplace of Anahuac, spur of the moment to witness the end of this historic run in the midst of the most intense anti-immigrant hysteria in decades. The pending draconian legislation before Congress has in turn spurred on massive mobilizations by Mexican/Central and South American peoples - by peoples of all colors - demanding that they be treated not as aliens or criminals, but as full human beings.

Yet, in the midst of these huge nationwide protests, something beckons me to the land of Quetzalcoatl.

The Hopi runners, with indisputable ties and connections with the peoples of Anahuac, came with water, prayers, maize, cornmeal, staffs and feathers from many nations. The message was simple: ''Water is the sustenance of all life ... To threaten water is to threaten all life.''

The runners began their trek in northern Arizona, through New Mexico, all the way down to the 4th annual World Water Forum in Mexico City. And while not officially received, they were not deterred. (A massive anti-water privatization protest also greeted the forum.)

On every stop, there was talk of prophecies, migrations and ancient connections. And they are greeted, not with a welcome, but with a ''welcome home. These are your lands and your waters.''

Wherever they went, dances, prayers, songs, ceremonies, gifts, stories, water and food were exchanged. They trekked to the 2,000-year-old city of Teotihuacan, where the temples of the sun, moon and Venus (Quetzalcoatl) are housed. They also made pilgrimage to the lands of Mexico's volcanoes in Puebla, where El Popo spewed out a plume during Hopi dances. They also journeyed to Temoaya, the Otomie ceremonial grounds, where they also met up with Otomie and Incaica relatives.

Everywhere they went, the runners were treated with utmost respect and great reverence, particularly the elders. Many of those with whom they met acknowledged that they are related and that the Hopi represent memory. The people do not need linguists, archaeologists or anthropologists to affirm this. The stories, the common languages, the water and the maize communicate this same message: San ce tojuan. Ti masehualme, okichike ka centeotzintli: We are one. We are macehual, made from sacred maize.

In late-night conversations, I was told of the two years of planning and sacrifice and of the many obstacles and challenges of the run. However, all will become lost in the mist of time. What will be remembered instead is that the runners have created, healed and reunited history. Some will say they have fulfilled prophecy, the coming together of the eagle and the condor ... cuahu and kuntur.

Oral traditions speak of the Hopi being the oldest peoples of the continent and of never having surrendered their sovereignty to anyone. And indeed, they are accorded this respect across the continent. It was amazing to see this unfold before my very eyes when the runners were obstinately prevented from leaving Mexico because most had come in without passports or visas. And yet, even in times of high levels of security, Hopi ID was sufficient; they prevailed.
Ok this article doesnt say much about the Hopi peoples being 1 of the 8 Uto-Aztecan tribes to migrate but it does show the rellevance of unity among the people even today.. good read.

http://www.crystalinks.com/hopi1.html
http://www.laprensa-sandiego.org/archieve/april25-03/aztec.htm
 
Dec 25, 2003
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#57
ParkBoyz said:
^Incoherent. I have no idea whatsoever how you came to this conclusion, but have fun anyways.:cool:
Incoherent? You need to put down the thesaurus homie. My post and logic were both coherent and discernible. You called the addition of black blood "the opposite of degeneration", while the introduction of white features is "degeneration of aboriginal Mexican features".

All extraordinary introductions are an affront to aboriginal racial characteristics, even if they are of the holy and divine African nature.
 
Aug 6, 2006
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#58
WHITE DEVIL said:
Incoherent? You need to put down the thesaurus homie. My post and logic were both coherent and discernible. You called the addition of black blood "the opposite of degeneration"
No I did not, liar..

WHITE DEVIL said:
,while the introduction of white features is "degeneration of aboriginal Mexican features".
It is, would you like to present an argument to the contrary?

WHITE DEVIL said:
All extraordinary introductions are an affront to aboriginal racial characteristics, even if they are of the holy and divine African nature.
^^Straw man..
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#60
Honestyiskey said:
Unfortunately I havent had the chance to read many codices so I dont know but of the Hopi peoples being one of them I know that is true as i've not only heard it from my people or history but from the Hopi elders as well.



Ok this article doesnt say much about the Hopi peoples being 1 of the 8 Uto-Aztecan tribes to migrate but it does show the rellevance of unity among the people even today.. good read.

http://www.crystalinks.com/hopi1.html
http://www.laprensa-sandiego.org/archieve/april25-03/aztec.htm
And according to you and these articles the Aztecs lived in what is now known as the united states?