Christianity

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shep

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Oct 2, 2002
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#21
i guaruntee you that the info in those books is just as reliable as other historical analysis. when constatine lived the catholic church was the ONLY christian entity in the world, so by him altering it, the catholic church and future christian entities would be using the bible he altered.

Flavius Valerius Constantius (c. 285-337 AD), Constantine the Great, was the son of Emperor Constantius I. When his father died in 306 AD, Constantine became emperor of Britain, Gaul (now France), and Spain. Gradually he gained control of the entire Roman empire.

Theological differences regarding Jesus Christ began to manifest in Constantine's empire when two major opponents surfaced and debated whether Christ was a created being (Arius doctrine) or not created but rather coequal and coeternal to God his father (Athanasius doctrine).

The theological warfare between the Arius and Athanasius doctrinal camps became intense. Constantine realized that the his empire was being threatened by the doctrinal rift. Constantine began to pressure the church to come to terms with its differences before the results became disastrous to his empire. Finally the emperor called a council at Nicea in 325 AD to resolve the dispute.

Only a fraction of existing bishops, 318, attended. This equated to about 18% of all the bishops in the empire. Of the 318, approximately 10 were from the Western part of Constantine's empire, making the voting lopsided at best. The emperor manipulated, coerced and threatened the council to be sure it voted for what he believed rather than an actual consensus of the bishops.

The present day Christian church touts Constantine as the first Christian emperor, however, his 'Christianity' was politically motivated. Whether he personally accepted Christian doctrine is highly doubtful. He had one of his sons murdered in addition to a nephew, his brother in law and possibly one of his wives. He continued to retain his title of high priest in a pagan religion until his death. He was not baptized until he was on his deathbed.

The majority of bishops voted under pressure from Constantine for the Athanasius doctrine. A creed was adopted which favored Athanasius's theology. Arius was condemned and exiled. Several of the Bishops left before the voting to avoid the controversy. Jesus Christ was approved to be "one substance" with God the Father. It is interesting that even now, the Eastern and Western Orthodox churches disagree with each other regarding this doctrine, the Western churches having had no influence in the 'voting'.

Two of the bishops who voted pro-Arius were also exiled and Arius's writings were destroyed. Constantine decreed that anyone caught with Arius documents would be subject to the death penalty.

The Nicaean Creed read as follows:

I believe in one God: the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God: begotten of his Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, through whom all things were made. . .

Even with the adoption of the Nicaean Creed, problems continued and in a few years, the Arian faction began to regain control. They became so powerful that Constantine restored them and denounced the Athanasius group.

Arius's exile was ended along with the bishops who sided with him. It was now Athanasius who would be banished.

When Constantine died (after being baptized by an Arian Bishop), his son reinstated the Arian philosophy and bishops and condemned the Athanasius group.

In the following years the political foes continue to struggle and finally the Arians misused their power and were overthrown. The religious/political controversy caused widespread bloodshed and killing. In 381 AD, Emperor Theodosius (a Trinitarian) convened a council in Constantinople. Only Trinitarian bishops were invited to attend. 150 bishops attended and voted to alter the Nicene creed to include the Holy Spirit as a part of the Godhead. The Trinity doctrine was now official for both the church and the state.

Dissident bishops were expelled from the church, and excommunicated.


THE ATHANASIUS CREED COMPLETES THE TRIUNE GODHEAD
The Athanasius (Trinitarian) Creed was finally established in (probably) the 5th century. It was not written by Athanasius but adopted his name. It stated in part:



"We worship one God in Trinity . . . The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God; and yet they are not three gods, but one God."
By the 9th century the creed was established in Spain, France and Germany. It had taken centuries from the time of Christ for the trinity doctrine to catch on. Government and church politics were the reasons the trinity came into existence and became church orthodoxy.

As you have seen, the Trinitarian doctrine came from deceit, politics, a pagan emperor and warring factions who brought about death and bloodshed.
 

shep

Sicc OG
Oct 2, 2002
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#22
Fistacuffs said:
And to assert that Constatine somehow conspired to alter the Bible to suit his own whims, one must ignore the evidence of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Old Testament, both of which validate the New Testament and preclude any chance of conspiracy.
oh, by the way, most of the dead sea scrolls and even the old testament go completely against the new testament. if they validated it so much, there would only be christianity, and no judaism
 

shep

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Oct 2, 2002
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shep said:
When Constantine died (after being baptized by an Arian Bishop), his son reinstated the Arian philosophy and bishops and condemned the Athanasius group.
i would assume that that means he was baptized Arian
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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www.godscalamity.com
#27
I have to say that I agree with Fistacuffs. I didn't know what the "da vinci code" was until YOUNG WINO asked me about it. I did however know about the Templar knights, holy grail, baphomet (look into baphomet if this topic is of any relevence to you), Blood line of yeshua, mary etc etc etc.


shep said the following:

"As you have seen, the Trinitarian doctrine came from deceit, politics, a pagan emperor and warring factions who brought about death and bloodshed."


I honestly believe you should research the topic (IN DEPTH ) before you make comments like that.




:hgk:
 

shep

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Oct 2, 2002
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#28
HERESY said:
"As you have seen, the Trinitarian doctrine came from deceit, politics, a pagan emperor and warring factions who brought about death and bloodshed."


I honestly believe you should research the topic (IN DEPTH ) before you make comments like that.

why? that is the truth, and if you knew history, you would know about the politics and religion of constantine. prove it wrong if you think otherwise. you will be the first to do so.
 
Feb 9, 2003
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#29
eipon oun umin oti apoqaneisqe en taiV amartiaiV umwn: ean gar mh pisteushte oti ego eimi, apoqaneisqe en taiV amartiaiV umwn.
--------------------
Not the best Greek translation of John 8:24. But the highlighted should be noted. Christ was almost killed for saying this.

John 20:27-28

27
Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here and see my hands, and bring your hand and put it into my side, and do not be unbelieving, but believe."
28
17 Thomas answered and said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Greek John 20:28
apekriqh qwmaV kai eipen autw, o kurioV mou kai o qeoV mou.

The highlighterd part translates to:
My Lord and My God.
Ο κύριος και ο Θεός μου
or
Ο Λόρδος και ο Θεός μου


Greek = English = Copied and Pasted Portion
Θεός = God = qeov
μου = My= mou
και = and = kai
κύριος = master = kuriov

Greek New Testament:
http://www.greekbible.com/index.php
Translators:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr
www.dictionary.com
 
Feb 9, 2003
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#30
Portion of John 4:24
The Holy Spirit is God, and God is Spirit (Jn 4:24).
Το πνεύμα είναι Θεός
the spirit it is God.

Since Jesus = God
and
The Spirit (Holy Spirit) = God
then Jesus MUST be the Spirit.
 

I AM

Some Random Asshole
Apr 25, 2002
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#31
MEXICANCOMMANDO said:
5) Jesus was never married. If he was why is there no proof in the bible or other outside sources? Trust me if he was there would be. He loved (platonically [sp?]) Mary.

Prove he wasn't. You don't know that any better than anyone else that is alive. You're too wrapped up in what you think you know to even consider something else. Maybe the guy that wrote the bible didn't want it in there cause it didn't fit his agenda. Who knows? Not me or you, so you can't say he was never married.

By the way...God doesn't exist. If he did there would be proof and other outside sources. Trust me, if he did there would be.
 
Feb 9, 2003
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Sixxness said:
Prove he wasn't. You don't know that any better than anyone else that is alive. You're too wrapped up in what you think you know to even consider something else. Maybe the guy that wrote the bible didn't want it in there cause it didn't fit his agenda. Who knows? Not me or you, so you can't say he was never married.

By the way...God doesn't exist. If he did there would be proof and other outside sources. Trust me, if he did there would be.
Who was this guy who wrote the bible? If he was married It would have been documented by Mary of Magdala especially since she allegedly wrote the fourth Gospel not just that but she might have been Jesus' most beloved Disciple why hide her marriage but not his respect for her? Also what agenda is this you speak of? In Hebrew Culture the woman isn't placed in a submissive role and she would have just as much power and respect as James.

I wouldn't trust an Atheist on anything Religious. I'm sorry. Maybe if you knew half of what Heresy knows on the subject and trust me he seems to know more about the bible, its history, the cultures, the languages, etc. than any other person on this board.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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tadou said:
All this Anti-Christian stuff makes me wonder how you all Liberals feel about your precious minority vote, and the fact that (arguably) the greatest Minority leader of all time, MLK Jr., evoked the name of God in nearly every other sentence.

.

my head hurts , are you an idiot ?
 

shep

Sicc OG
Oct 2, 2002
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#35
MEXICANCOMMANDO said:
Who was this guy who wrote the bible? If he was married It would have been documented by Mary of Magdala especially since she allegedly wrote the fourth Gospel not just that but she might have been Jesus' most beloved Disciple why hide her marriage but not his respect for her? Also what agenda is this you speak of? In Hebrew Culture the woman isn't placed in a submissive role and she would have just as much power and respect as James.

I wouldn't trust an Atheist on anything Religious. I'm sorry. Maybe if you knew half of what Heresy knows on the subject and trust me he seems to know more about the bible, its history, the cultures, the languages, etc. than any other person on this board.

that's why the gospels in the dead sea scrolls aren't in the new testament. some dealt with the relationship between jesus and mary.

why wouldn't you trust an atheist in religion? it seems to me they would have a more OBJECTIVE view than someone who is religious.
 
Feb 9, 2003
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#36
shep said:
that's why the gospels in the dead sea scrolls aren't in the new testament. some dealt with the relationship between jesus and mary.
No they didn't. People misinterpret what was found in the dead sea scrolls. Jesus was a poor man he wouldn't have been able to afford to marry any one. But if you insist show me what exactly deals with Jesus' and Mary's relationship.
shep said:
why wouldn't you trust an atheist in religion? it seems to me they would have a more OBJECTIVE view than someone who is religious.
For the same reason I don't trust other Christians. Most don't have a real understanding of what they are reading.
 
May 13, 2002
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#37
tadou said:
I knew yall would turn this shit around on me instead of speaking on the issue.....predictable. Atheism does not equal Liberalism, but its no secret that Liberalism DOES coddle and embrace Atheism.

The contention remains: if MLK would have walked around spouting off "Christianity is mind controll" and "God doesn't exist", we'd probably STILL be eating in segregated restaurants and sleeping in segregated hotels.
One again you have displayed your idiocy.

First off, Atheism is a lack of belief. That is it. Nothing more, nothing less. It does not teach one to be liberal, conservative, a communist, capitalist etc. etc. etc.

Second, your MLK talk is complete nonsense and is a fucking joke. There have been plenty of activists who did NOT speak of religion and had great impacts. Look at Kerry for example. Nothing compared to MLK of course, but is relevant to our times, he NEVER speaks of religion or god in any of his speaches, yet he has millions of supporters. Also, MLK was a black activist, NOT an Atheist rights activist. Why would he say "Christianity is mind controll" etc. when he was fighting for african rights? You don't make any fucking sense.

Anwer my questions McTadou

Tadou, tell me, since you seem to KNOW god=Liberty, how do you know what or who god is? Did you learn it from a religion? If not, where? How can you describe god if you do not have any knowledge of god?
@MC,

Why would you talk about HERESY when you two don't even agree on the same things?
 

I AM

Some Random Asshole
Apr 25, 2002
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#39
MEXICANCOMMANDO said:
Who was this guy who wrote the bible? If he was married It would have been documented by Mary of Magdala especially since she allegedly wrote the fourth Gospel not just that but she might have been Jesus' most beloved Disciple why hide her marriage but not his respect for her? Also what agenda is this you speak of? In Hebrew Culture the woman isn't placed in a submissive role and she would have just as much power and respect as James.

I wouldn't trust an Atheist on anything Religious. I'm sorry. Maybe if you knew half of what Heresy knows on the subject and trust me he seems to know more about the bible, its history, the cultures, the languages, etc. than any other person on this board.

Constatine I believe was the name brought up. Why would it have been documented? Because YOU think people would have done that? Sorry to tell you, but unless you were there all you can do is speculate, NOTHING more. By "agenda" I meant what was going through the guy's head when he was writing the bible and deciding what to include and what to exclude. You have no fucking clue what that guy thought or why he let some stuff in but kept others out. If he kept some stuff out, what's to say that he didn't just take parts of stuff he included out, before he was entered?

I wouldn't trust a religious person on anything logical. I'm sorry, but you talk a lot of bullshit out of your ass, but I never really see you do anything. You wait for other people to prove shit, so you can quote them and say "see i told you." I don't really care about what Heresy did or does....I think religion is a waste of time....

I know what's right for me, so that's what I do....You know what's right for you, so why don't you just do that...and not worry about what Ahteists are doin....
 
Feb 9, 2003
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#40
Sixxness said:
Constatine I believe was the name brought up. Why would it have been documented? Because YOU think people would have done that? Sorry to tell you, but unless you were there all you can do is speculate, NOTHING more. By "agenda" I meant what was going through the guy's head when he was writing the bible and deciding what to include and what to exclude. You have no fucking clue what that guy thought or why he let some stuff in but kept others out. If he kept some stuff out, what's to say that he didn't just take parts of stuff he included out, before he was entered?
Constantine wrote the bible? The bible wasn't even written at the council of Neace (sp?). The only thing they did was decide what was cannon and what wasn't. The rest of these books are out there for the public to find. They were no mystery before the meeting and they aren't a mystery now.
Sixxness said:
I wouldn't trust a religious person on anything logical. I'm sorry, but you talk a lot of bullshit out of your ass, but I never really see you do anything. You wait for other people to prove shit, so you can quote them and say "see i told you." I don't really care about what Heresy did or does....I think religion is a waste of time....
I dont care what you think. Heresy had what 1 poss? I proved the triniy and gave other info regarding the validity of the Da Vinci Code. NOTHING of what he said was even remotely tied to what I said excluding the part about the trinity and I've stated arguments against EDJ on this before so i find it very hard to accept your argument.
Sixxness said:
I know what's right for me, so that's what I do....You know what's right for you, so why don't you just do that...and not worry about what Ahteists are doin....
Hmmm. When people attack the credibility of what I believe I feel it's up to me to offer my side of the argument. I've not gone off on any tangents, I've been corteous, and I've read everything posted. I'll take your advise and continue to do as I see fit.