you're on one! if we would have tooken Rodgers he be playing exactly like smith. confidence would be shot with all the different coaches and systems we would have put him through. his mentors would have been Rattay, Pickett, Dilfer, Dorsey and a buch of other chumps. Rodgers has recievers a line and a rb along with good coaching in Green Bay. point is we could have had brady and he wouldnt have done shit with the team and coaches weve been surrounding are QB's with. Name a solid consistent linemen or reciever that we have had in the past 5 years. NOBODY!!!!!!!!!! Pretty much our whole team is inconsistent with the exception of WILLIS and GORE. Once the whole team and coaching staff get together we could end up with 10 wins. Till then were going to be wasting our young talent and be along the ranks of pussy ass teams like the Cardinals and the Chokeland Raiders.
Bucs offered quarterback Jeff Garcia to the San Francisco 49ers.
- Thread starter MAVA
- Start date
The difference is JTO showed it in one single game, Garcia has showed it throughout his CAREER.
O'Sullivan is not the answer at QB and anybody who thinks he can be is out of their damn mind. The ONLY reason he's starting is because Smith and Hill were too indecisive for Mike Martz' system. PERIOD. Alex is also inaccurate which is a deal-breaker in itself. Martz takes scrubs and turns them into productive QBs, but imagine if he got his hands on a GOOD QB and then tutored him.. Think about it. Look what he did with Warner and Bulger. Neither of them have tremendous ability, but they were groomed by Martz to be productive QBs.
The point I'm making is O'Sullivan is not a good QB. He had a good game, yes. But that is more due to Mike Martz' system than JTO's abilities.
If I happen to be wrong, great. Then we'd have our answer at QB for the next 7-8 years, but I highly doubt it. We'll be on the hunt for our future QB next season, right after they release Alex and fire Nolan in favor of Mike Martz. Mark it.
O'Sullivan is not the answer at QB and anybody who thinks he can be is out of their damn mind. The ONLY reason he's starting is because Smith and Hill were too indecisive for Mike Martz' system. PERIOD. Alex is also inaccurate which is a deal-breaker in itself. Martz takes scrubs and turns them into productive QBs, but imagine if he got his hands on a GOOD QB and then tutored him.. Think about it. Look what he did with Warner and Bulger. Neither of them have tremendous ability, but they were groomed by Martz to be productive QBs.
The point I'm making is O'Sullivan is not a good QB. He had a good game, yes. But that is more due to Mike Martz' system than JTO's abilities.
If I happen to be wrong, great. Then we'd have our answer at QB for the next 7-8 years, but I highly doubt it. We'll be on the hunt for our future QB next season, right after they release Alex and fire Nolan in favor of Mike Martz. Mark it.
I don't see why you are so sceptical of JTO...yea dude hasn't had any experience starting in the NFL, that might make him unproven but it doesn't mean he sucks...some people just never get a chance to prove themselves.
Yes Martz turn average QBs into starters (Warner, Bulger, Green) why can't that happen with JTO? He showed accuracy, toughness to come back from 8 sacks and composure in teh pocket (yes, he held on to the ball on some plays a little too long, but thats fixable). Warner was a nobody before martz just like JTO, and Warner is still lightin it up over there in Arizona...most TDs by any QB in the second half of the season last year and you've already seen what he's done so far this year. Bulger, well he got injured and his O-Line has been shit as of late so you can't really blame him for not winning.
Obviously he was better in the training camp and pre-season then our #1 overall pick, who you always said was gonna be a good QB in the NFL.
and again, yes he only showed all those qualities for one game and until he plays more games neither I nor you know if he'll keep that up or start sucking so I don't see why there is so much hate on JTO.
Yes Martz turn average QBs into starters (Warner, Bulger, Green) why can't that happen with JTO? He showed accuracy, toughness to come back from 8 sacks and composure in teh pocket (yes, he held on to the ball on some plays a little too long, but thats fixable). Warner was a nobody before martz just like JTO, and Warner is still lightin it up over there in Arizona...most TDs by any QB in the second half of the season last year and you've already seen what he's done so far this year. Bulger, well he got injured and his O-Line has been shit as of late so you can't really blame him for not winning.
Obviously he was better in the training camp and pre-season then our #1 overall pick, who you always said was gonna be a good QB in the NFL.
and again, yes he only showed all those qualities for one game and until he plays more games neither I nor you know if he'll keep that up or start sucking so I don't see why there is so much hate on JTO.
I disagree with Fatal even though I do see the point he's trying to make.
Sullivan has been playing his ass off... give the dude credit. Martz does run a complex system so give credit to Sullivan for catching on and executing the plays. He got sacked 8 times and still hung in there. He was the first Niner qb to throw for over 300 yards in a while. He's been hittin' his receivers in stride... if Bruce still had his speed he should have been gone.
From what I've seen JT has the ability... he's a tough dude man. Give him some credit. I think he's a good qb.
Sullivan has been playing his ass off... give the dude credit. Martz does run a complex system so give credit to Sullivan for catching on and executing the plays. He got sacked 8 times and still hung in there. He was the first Niner qb to throw for over 300 yards in a while. He's been hittin' his receivers in stride... if Bruce still had his speed he should have been gone.
From what I've seen JT has the ability... he's a tough dude man. Give him some credit. I think he's a good qb.
Martz's offense tries his QBs' toughness
http://www.sacbee.com/sf49ers/story/1245840.html
SANTA CLARA – If one were to make the case that Mike Martz's offense exposes its quarterbacks to an unusual amount of punishment, exhibit A would be Jon Kitna, the quarterback of the 49ers' Sunday opponent.
The Detroit quarterback was sacked 114 times in two years under Martz. He absorbed a monstrous – and often replayed – shot from 49ers cornerback Shawntae Spencer in 2006 that lifted him off his feet and onto his back. Last year, he spent two quarters on the sideline with a concussion during a game against Minnesota before returning in the fourth quarter to lead the Lions to an overtime win.
Through the 2006 and 2007 seasons, he was the poster boy for shoddy pass protection.
Far from resenting the abuse, however, Kitna on Wednesday said it was a reasonable price to pay for throwing for 8,276 yards, his gaudy two-year total under Martz.
"Like I always said the last two years every time that question came up, I'll take a few more hits or having to get hit more often if it means that you're going to have chances at bigger plays," Kitna said during a conference call. "But again, that's a philosophy that Mike employs. He wants to get that ball in that 20- to 30-yard passing range."
After watching J.T. O'Sullivan get sacked eight times in Seattle, 49ers fans are asking whether their new quarterback will be subjected to Kitna-like beatings.
Martz's offensive system typically sends every available receiver – including running backs and tights ends – on pass routes, meaning there are few players remaining to pick up blitzers. Martz's reliance on downfield passes also requires the quarterback to hold onto the ball an extra beat or so.
O'Sullivan already has been sacked 12 times on the season, and the 49ers – who set a franchise record last year with 55 sacks allowed – are on pace to give up 96 sacks this season.
O'Sullivan placed a lot of the blame on himself, saying he needs to get rid of the ball more quickly or simply throw it away.
"I think they're all correctable," he said. "A lot of it falls on me. Obviously, you don't need to be a football guru to know that I took some unnecessary sacks."
O'Sullivan said he tried to learn something from all the quarterbacks he has played behind over the past six seasons. During his one-year apprenticeship under Kitna in Detroit, the one thing that jumped out was Kitna's grit.
"He's probably the toughest guy I've been around, just as far as standing in there, making the throws and coming back in there week in and week out," O'Sullivan said. "I took a lot from that. He's got a lot of respect from me for that. … This offense is about standing in there and making some tough throws, and he does it."
Kitna noted that despite all the sacks, he still managed to start all 16 games both seasons under Martz. And at a thickly built 6-foot-2, 225 pounds, he seems ideally constructed to withstand punishment.
The question is whether O'Sullivan can do the same.
A weight-room devotee, O'Sullivan has virtually the same dimensions as Kitna, and so far has shown a knack for scrambling and sidestepping the hardest tackles. But one of the results of being a career backup is that you really don't know if you're durable.
"I think time will tell with me," O'Sullivan said. "I think everybody hopes that they are. But it doesn't really matter what I hope. It's how things work out."
http://www.sacbee.com/sf49ers/story/1245840.html
SANTA CLARA – If one were to make the case that Mike Martz's offense exposes its quarterbacks to an unusual amount of punishment, exhibit A would be Jon Kitna, the quarterback of the 49ers' Sunday opponent.
The Detroit quarterback was sacked 114 times in two years under Martz. He absorbed a monstrous – and often replayed – shot from 49ers cornerback Shawntae Spencer in 2006 that lifted him off his feet and onto his back. Last year, he spent two quarters on the sideline with a concussion during a game against Minnesota before returning in the fourth quarter to lead the Lions to an overtime win.
Through the 2006 and 2007 seasons, he was the poster boy for shoddy pass protection.
Far from resenting the abuse, however, Kitna on Wednesday said it was a reasonable price to pay for throwing for 8,276 yards, his gaudy two-year total under Martz.
"Like I always said the last two years every time that question came up, I'll take a few more hits or having to get hit more often if it means that you're going to have chances at bigger plays," Kitna said during a conference call. "But again, that's a philosophy that Mike employs. He wants to get that ball in that 20- to 30-yard passing range."
After watching J.T. O'Sullivan get sacked eight times in Seattle, 49ers fans are asking whether their new quarterback will be subjected to Kitna-like beatings.
Martz's offensive system typically sends every available receiver – including running backs and tights ends – on pass routes, meaning there are few players remaining to pick up blitzers. Martz's reliance on downfield passes also requires the quarterback to hold onto the ball an extra beat or so.
O'Sullivan already has been sacked 12 times on the season, and the 49ers – who set a franchise record last year with 55 sacks allowed – are on pace to give up 96 sacks this season.
O'Sullivan placed a lot of the blame on himself, saying he needs to get rid of the ball more quickly or simply throw it away.
"I think they're all correctable," he said. "A lot of it falls on me. Obviously, you don't need to be a football guru to know that I took some unnecessary sacks."
O'Sullivan said he tried to learn something from all the quarterbacks he has played behind over the past six seasons. During his one-year apprenticeship under Kitna in Detroit, the one thing that jumped out was Kitna's grit.
"He's probably the toughest guy I've been around, just as far as standing in there, making the throws and coming back in there week in and week out," O'Sullivan said. "I took a lot from that. He's got a lot of respect from me for that. … This offense is about standing in there and making some tough throws, and he does it."
Kitna noted that despite all the sacks, he still managed to start all 16 games both seasons under Martz. And at a thickly built 6-foot-2, 225 pounds, he seems ideally constructed to withstand punishment.
The question is whether O'Sullivan can do the same.
A weight-room devotee, O'Sullivan has virtually the same dimensions as Kitna, and so far has shown a knack for scrambling and sidestepping the hardest tackles. But one of the results of being a career backup is that you really don't know if you're durable.
"I think time will tell with me," O'Sullivan said. "I think everybody hopes that they are. But it doesn't really matter what I hope. It's how things work out."
I don't see why everyone is so high on the guy after one good game. I don't like to bring my fellow Niner fans down, but I've always been realistic and I won't stop now. What we saw was a product of Mike Martz and I firmly believe he could have inserted any average QB into that role last Sunday and we would have seen similar or better production. The guy is not special and doesn't do anything better than other QBs, he just has the benefit of running an offense that most would consider the best passing system in the game.
It can, but the problem is we're gonna wind up with a Trent Green rather than a Kurt Warner.
I must have blacked out every time he showed composure in the pocket because what I saw was him panicking and then trying to do things he is not capable of, which led to at least half the sacks he "showed toughness to come back from."
Have you seen who Warner is throwing to in Arizona? Ever heard of Larry Fitzgerald or Anquan Boldin? The only reason Kurt Warner is even starting is because they don't feel Matt Leinart is ready to lead that team yet. They're taking a page out of the Packers' book and letting the kid sit and watch a veteran QB run the team. Kurt Warner is average at best and if you place him on another team without targets the caliber of Boldin and Fitzgerald he will not be lighting a damn thing up.
I won't comment on Bulger since the Rams are just plain fucked up.
Let's get this straight first and foremost. I never said Alex Smith was gonna be a good QB in the NFL. I defended him because there was a reason to do so. He had many issues I believe held him back, but I won't get into them because we all know what they are already. I always said he COULD be a good NFL QB because he has the intangibles, now I see that will never happen here in San Francisco. I gave up on the kid when he lost his starting position to a career 3rd stringer (not even a career BACKUP, a career 3RD STRINGER).
Now, on to the REASON O'Sullivan won the starting job.. And that has more to do with what Smith and Hill did wrong than what JTO did right. Hill and Smith were too indecisive and wouldn't get rid of the ball when they should. JTO got rid of the ball, but the problem is his gunslinger attitude can and will cause us to turn the ball over. He's not incredibly accurate (fuck the stats, watch him play) and he tries to do more than he is capable of.
I'm not hating on the guy, I want for him to do well, but I'm being realistic. Too many Niner fans are riding his nuts after one game and that makes all of us look stupid.
I know we'll have to wait and see how he will do, but unfortunately, I'm basing my opinion on more than what I saw against Seattle.
Oh by the way, if we don't fire Mike Nolan and promote Mike Martz to Head Coach next season, there's a good chance Martz will be gone and then you're gonna see what I mean about JTO not being what many people think he is.
It can, but the problem is we're gonna wind up with a Trent Green rather than a Kurt Warner.
I must have blacked out every time he showed composure in the pocket because what I saw was him panicking and then trying to do things he is not capable of, which led to at least half the sacks he "showed toughness to come back from."
Have you seen who Warner is throwing to in Arizona? Ever heard of Larry Fitzgerald or Anquan Boldin? The only reason Kurt Warner is even starting is because they don't feel Matt Leinart is ready to lead that team yet. They're taking a page out of the Packers' book and letting the kid sit and watch a veteran QB run the team. Kurt Warner is average at best and if you place him on another team without targets the caliber of Boldin and Fitzgerald he will not be lighting a damn thing up.
I won't comment on Bulger since the Rams are just plain fucked up.
Let's get this straight first and foremost. I never said Alex Smith was gonna be a good QB in the NFL. I defended him because there was a reason to do so. He had many issues I believe held him back, but I won't get into them because we all know what they are already. I always said he COULD be a good NFL QB because he has the intangibles, now I see that will never happen here in San Francisco. I gave up on the kid when he lost his starting position to a career 3rd stringer (not even a career BACKUP, a career 3RD STRINGER).
Now, on to the REASON O'Sullivan won the starting job.. And that has more to do with what Smith and Hill did wrong than what JTO did right. Hill and Smith were too indecisive and wouldn't get rid of the ball when they should. JTO got rid of the ball, but the problem is his gunslinger attitude can and will cause us to turn the ball over. He's not incredibly accurate (fuck the stats, watch him play) and he tries to do more than he is capable of.
I'm not hating on the guy, I want for him to do well, but I'm being realistic. Too many Niner fans are riding his nuts after one game and that makes all of us look stupid.
I know we'll have to wait and see how he will do, but unfortunately, I'm basing my opinion on more than what I saw against Seattle.
Oh by the way, if we don't fire Mike Nolan and promote Mike Martz to Head Coach next season, there's a good chance Martz will be gone and then you're gonna see what I mean about JTO not being what many people think he is.
Yeah but you also thought Aaron Brooks was a good QB.
LOL
Just fuckin with you..
But right on if you feel he's a good QB. I haven't come to that conclusion yet. If at the halfway point of the season JTO is still playing well, then I will say he is becoming a good QB. Until then, he was just a well-prepared QB who had a good game on Sunday.
You guys don't even know how badly I want to be wrong about this. I just don't see it, yet.
LOL
Just fuckin with you..
But right on if you feel he's a good QB. I haven't come to that conclusion yet. If at the halfway point of the season JTO is still playing well, then I will say he is becoming a good QB. Until then, he was just a well-prepared QB who had a good game on Sunday.
You guys don't even know how badly I want to be wrong about this. I just don't see it, yet.
Hey man Brooks was a good qb. His problem was when the team would play good he would play good and then when the team would play bad then he would play bad. A lot of people used to question his leadership skills because of that.
But on to J.T... the thing about him is he puts the ball on the money. In Martz' system you as a qb have to understand ball placement. The ball has to be in the area where the receivers is going to be. The ball has to be there before the receiver gets there. It's takes the right read and accuracy to do that. So far J.T. has shown the ability to do so. I guess we'll wait til the halfway point of the season to really judge but so far Martz and J.T. will have a lot do with the Niners being 2-1 after they handle Detroit. That offense is lookin' pretty good (besides the qb taking a lot of sacks)
But on to J.T... the thing about him is he puts the ball on the money. In Martz' system you as a qb have to understand ball placement. The ball has to be in the area where the receivers is going to be. The ball has to be there before the receiver gets there. It's takes the right read and accuracy to do that. So far J.T. has shown the ability to do so. I guess we'll wait til the halfway point of the season to really judge but so far Martz and J.T. will have a lot do with the Niners being 2-1 after they handle Detroit. That offense is lookin' pretty good (besides the qb taking a lot of sacks)
The only way Martz would stay as an OC is if our offense did poorly this season. But if that were the case, why would we even want to keep him around? I know it takes around 4 years for a team to really "get" his offense, but if we suck ass again this year I think he'll end up getting fired. On the other hand, if our offense does well teams are going to see how horrible we were last season and snatch him away from us for their HC job. The best case scenario is for our offense to do well, fire Nolan and hire Martz as Head Coach. It seems obvious to me, but will the Yorks see it? Probably not. You never know what those idiots are thinking.
My point with all that is I believe JTO can only succeed under Mike Martz. I want a QB that will be capable of succeeding with or without Mike Martz. We can't rely on him sticking around. Knowing the idiot Yorks, if we do well this season, Nolan will stick around and Martz will be HC of some other team.. And if we do well, that means JTO did well.. And if JTO does well, Nolan is not smart enough to realize Martz is what made JTO, so we won't go after another QB for the future and we'll waste yet another draft and another year.
Basically I think if Martz leaves and JTO is our QB next season, we're in trouble. If Martz stays, I'm not too worried about who is QB because Martz will prepare them and make sure they are productive. I just think JTO NEEDS Mike Martz, and I want a QB that is not reliant upon his OC. I don't know if you know what I mean or not, but that's how I feel.
My point with all that is I believe JTO can only succeed under Mike Martz. I want a QB that will be capable of succeeding with or without Mike Martz. We can't rely on him sticking around. Knowing the idiot Yorks, if we do well this season, Nolan will stick around and Martz will be HC of some other team.. And if we do well, that means JTO did well.. And if JTO does well, Nolan is not smart enough to realize Martz is what made JTO, so we won't go after another QB for the future and we'll waste yet another draft and another year.
Basically I think if Martz leaves and JTO is our QB next season, we're in trouble. If Martz stays, I'm not too worried about who is QB because Martz will prepare them and make sure they are productive. I just think JTO NEEDS Mike Martz, and I want a QB that is not reliant upon his OC. I don't know if you know what I mean or not, but that's how I feel.
^^i kno exactly what you are saying...hopefully JTO can become a QB that is able to succeed with Martz or without....only time will tell.
What happens with the OC possition of Martz becomes the HC? Does he take on both jobs or do we still have to have an OC even tho its Martz's system and he's calling the plays...
What happens with the OC possition of Martz becomes the HC? Does he take on both jobs or do we still have to have an OC even tho its Martz's system and he's calling the plays...