Boxing News Thread
- Thread starter heyzel
- Start date
man, that last fight was close. I had it one point for Funeka, or possibly a draw. Nate knocking him twice definitely got him the victory though. He got lucky as fuck. I cant tell if ali has a bad chin or if he just got tagged perfectly in the temple twice. He defintely will be a problem for anyone at 135.
Tonights 3 fights are in my opinion the reason mma is getting so huge. The first fight was a top prospect undeafeated fighter versus a guy who had 4 days notice. The second fight the fight should have been stopped when cintron went down and basically got counted out and saved by the bell then you have the referee taking a point away in the 12 round from Martinez for hitting the back of Cintrons head while he was ducking into it himself. Of course it turned out to ruin the fight and rob Martinez of a solid victory. The third fight Nate comes in overwieght and takes away his belts before the fight. I love boxing and have been watching it my entire life and will continue to watch no matter what i just cant help comparing it to MMA.
In fairness though the first fight was supposed to be Angulo vs Ricardo Mayorga. It was supposed to be the main event. Mayorga pulled out with a week left in the fight (his ribs are still fucked up from shane mosley apparently) and rather than canceling the bout they scrambled to find an opponent.
Martinez definitely deserved the win. I'm not sure what the hell happened with the scoring.
What happens in MMA if a fighter comes in overweight? Fortunately it's not something that happens often in boxing but I agree that his belts should have been stripped, I think thats fair.
I don't know if this card is really something you want to compare boxing as a whole to mma because it was a pretty low level card with a bunch of names no one has really heard of before. It was supposed to be a great card, but once Mayorga pulled out it became a pretty weak card.
Martinez definitely deserved the win. I'm not sure what the hell happened with the scoring.
What happens in MMA if a fighter comes in overweight? Fortunately it's not something that happens often in boxing but I agree that his belts should have been stripped, I think thats fair.
I don't know if this card is really something you want to compare boxing as a whole to mma because it was a pretty low level card with a bunch of names no one has really heard of before. It was supposed to be a great card, but once Mayorga pulled out it became a pretty weak card.
Miss me, guys? What's up 20Sixx, naner, heyzel, Mak, MOREBASS, Godzilla, and everyone else who's in this thread all the time. Greatest thread of all time.
LOL
Margarito = poop. I'm a big fan of Tony, but he looked like a shot bum against Mosley. I wouldn't have seen that happening, but I wouldn't bet against Shane, either (money wise)...the hand wraps. I can't even defend that...I'm still shaking my head.
Let's see...what else has happened?
Oh, Arce got the shit kicked out of him. He looked worse than I've ever seen him. Great fight for Vic.
Can't wait for Diaz/Marquez.
And Manny will STILL beat the shit out of Floyd.
See you in another 10 years or so...take care, guys.
LOL
Margarito = poop. I'm a big fan of Tony, but he looked like a shot bum against Mosley. I wouldn't have seen that happening, but I wouldn't bet against Shane, either (money wise)...the hand wraps. I can't even defend that...I'm still shaking my head.
Let's see...what else has happened?
Oh, Arce got the shit kicked out of him. He looked worse than I've ever seen him. Great fight for Vic.
Can't wait for Diaz/Marquez.
And Manny will STILL beat the shit out of Floyd.
See you in another 10 years or so...take care, guys.
Pacquiao vs. Cotto in 09: Arum Would Attempt To Do It
By Mark Vester
The welterweight dreamfight, Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto, could actually stand a chance of becoming a reality. Before Antonio Margarito lost his boxing license for a full year, Pacquiao was actually calling for a future fight with the much-larger former champion. Nobody knows how serious he was, but there was a lot trash talking with Pacquiao [and trainer Freddie Roach] predicting that he was capable of outboxing Margarito with few issues. Now that Margarito is gone, Miguel Cotto remains. Cotto mentioned a potential Pacquiao fight in several recent interviews and said he is more than willing to fight the pound-for-pound best fighter in the world.
After the demolition that Pacquiao did to De La Hoya at welterweight, a Pacquiao-Cotto fight doesn't appear like the mismatch it would have looked like a year ago.
Bob Arum, who promotes both Cotto and Pacquiao, would be willing to make the fight. Cotto would have to beat Michael Jennings on Saturday [and a possible second opponent in June] and Pacquiao would have to beat Ricky Hatton in May. If Pacquiao gets his win in May, Arum will recommend Cotto as one of the options for his next fight. He makes it clear that it's not up to him if the fight happens, it's up to the fighters, Cotto and Pacquiao.
"Well I want you to understand what I’m about to say just so there’s no confusion that all of these fighters make their own decisions. I make recommendations and would I recommend that [Pacquiao] fight Miguel Cotto? Absolutely. Will he go along with my recommendation? I don’t know. Because I haven’t raised it with him," Arum said.
"But I would think that if Miguel now beats Michael Jennings and wins his fight against whomever it is in June. And Manny Pacquiao beats Ricky Hatton - why wouldn’t I try to make a match between my two best fighters - or two of my best fighters, Miguel Cotto and Manny Pacquiao? So yes, the answer is I would attempt to do it. Whether I would be successful in putting it together I mean that’s up to the fighters."
Miranda vs. Vegas on March 20 - Edison is Back
By Mark Vester
According to overseas reports, super middleweight contender Edison Miranda (31-3, 27 KOs) will return to the ring on March 20 at the York Hall in Bethnal Green. He faces Joey Vegas (11-4-1, 4 KOs) in a ten-round contest.
It will certainly give Miranda exposure with the UK market and maybe an attempt to push a future fight with WBC champion Carl Froch, but Vegas is likely to end up as another showcase knockout for Edison. Vegas' weight jumps around, from super middleweight to as high as cruiserweight. I'm curious as to Vegas' ability to get down to 168 and wonder if the fight will happen at some catch-weight.
It will be the second bout for Miranda since a knockout loss to Arthur Abraham last June. Miranda knocked out Manuel Esparza in three rounds last month in Florida
By Mark Vester
According to overseas reports, super middleweight contender Edison Miranda (31-3, 27 KOs) will return to the ring on March 20 at the York Hall in Bethnal Green. He faces Joey Vegas (11-4-1, 4 KOs) in a ten-round contest.
It will certainly give Miranda exposure with the UK market and maybe an attempt to push a future fight with WBC champion Carl Froch, but Vegas is likely to end up as another showcase knockout for Edison. Vegas' weight jumps around, from super middleweight to as high as cruiserweight. I'm curious as to Vegas' ability to get down to 168 and wonder if the fight will happen at some catch-weight.
It will be the second bout for Miranda since a knockout loss to Arthur Abraham last June. Miranda knocked out Manuel Esparza in three rounds last month in Florida
Hardy: "Joe Calzaghe - is a Big-Headed D**khead
By Mark Vester
UFC fighter Dan Hardy of Nottingham, who meets Rory Markham this weekend on the UFC 95 pay-per-view at the O2 Arena in England, has launched a vicious attack on the recently retired Joe Calzaghe of Wales.
According to Hardy, Calzaghe is not the nice guy that everyone thinks he is. He said Calzaghe came off as a very arrogant person when the two athletes met. Something must have rubbed him the wrong way because he'd like to smack Calzaghe in the face if opportunity was there.
“I’ve met the guy a couple of times and he’s just real arrogant. He comes across on TV shows like he’s just a country boy and not bothered about fame or money, but it’s bulls***. He’s a big-headed d***head and he’d get a smack in the face if I got the opportunity. And if I could get paid for it, then even better,” Hardy said to The Sun
By Mark Vester
UFC fighter Dan Hardy of Nottingham, who meets Rory Markham this weekend on the UFC 95 pay-per-view at the O2 Arena in England, has launched a vicious attack on the recently retired Joe Calzaghe of Wales.
According to Hardy, Calzaghe is not the nice guy that everyone thinks he is. He said Calzaghe came off as a very arrogant person when the two athletes met. Something must have rubbed him the wrong way because he'd like to smack Calzaghe in the face if opportunity was there.
“I’ve met the guy a couple of times and he’s just real arrogant. He comes across on TV shows like he’s just a country boy and not bothered about fame or money, but it’s bulls***. He’s a big-headed d***head and he’d get a smack in the face if I got the opportunity. And if I could get paid for it, then even better,” Hardy said to The Sun
Joe Calzaghe "This is Not a Mayweather Retirement"
By Mark Vester
Clinton Woods' promoter, Dennis Hobson, had recently told reporters that he might be able to entice Joe Calzaghe to return to the sport for one more fight. Hobson feels there is a lot of money to made with a Calzaghe-Woods encounter on UK soil. Woods has been after Calzaghe for a while, but was never able to get him in the ring.
"Maybe we could tempt Calzaghe out of retirement for one last fight," said Hobson to PA Sport.
Calzaghe recently said that he is not interested in returning to the ring - for Woods or any other fight. He doesn't want to become like Floyd Mayweather Jr, who retired more than once over the last few years and quickly returned to the ring after every announcement [other than the last time].
"I think you might have to mark me down as an exception to the rule - a fighter who retires and stays retired! In my mind there is no-one out there left for me to fight and I don't see that being different six months or a year from now. I left on my own terms, not noticeably damaged from the ring and with financial security for my family," Calzaghe said to the South Wales Argus.
"This isn't a rash, Floyd Mayweather-style retirement. It was on my mind for the past 18 months although some of the people close to me would argue I've been talking about retirement for a lot longer than that
By Mark Vester
Clinton Woods' promoter, Dennis Hobson, had recently told reporters that he might be able to entice Joe Calzaghe to return to the sport for one more fight. Hobson feels there is a lot of money to made with a Calzaghe-Woods encounter on UK soil. Woods has been after Calzaghe for a while, but was never able to get him in the ring.
"Maybe we could tempt Calzaghe out of retirement for one last fight," said Hobson to PA Sport.
Calzaghe recently said that he is not interested in returning to the ring - for Woods or any other fight. He doesn't want to become like Floyd Mayweather Jr, who retired more than once over the last few years and quickly returned to the ring after every announcement [other than the last time].
"I think you might have to mark me down as an exception to the rule - a fighter who retires and stays retired! In my mind there is no-one out there left for me to fight and I don't see that being different six months or a year from now. I left on my own terms, not noticeably damaged from the ring and with financial security for my family," Calzaghe said to the South Wales Argus.
"This isn't a rash, Floyd Mayweather-style retirement. It was on my mind for the past 18 months although some of the people close to me would argue I've been talking about retirement for a lot longer than that
Carl Froch-Jermain Taylor Gets Close, Green-De Leon Too
By Rick Reeno
BoxingScene.com has been advised that a deal is very close for Carl Froch's defense of the WBC super middleweight title against mandatory challenger Jermain Taylor. The talks are at the point of finalizing the exact date and venue. If the fight falls on April 18, it may take place at the Theater in Madison Square Garden, and April 25 would likely see it go to Foxwoods. Showtime will televise.
Super middleweight contender Allan Green, who was orginally going to fight Taylor in the main event, will see action on the undercard against Carlos De Leon Jr. Some may remember De Leon as the fighter that knocked out a previously undefeated James McGirt Jr. last April in Florida
By Rick Reeno
BoxingScene.com has been advised that a deal is very close for Carl Froch's defense of the WBC super middleweight title against mandatory challenger Jermain Taylor. The talks are at the point of finalizing the exact date and venue. If the fight falls on April 18, it may take place at the Theater in Madison Square Garden, and April 25 would likely see it go to Foxwoods. Showtime will televise.
Super middleweight contender Allan Green, who was orginally going to fight Taylor in the main event, will see action on the undercard against Carlos De Leon Jr. Some may remember De Leon as the fighter that knocked out a previously undefeated James McGirt Jr. last April in Florida
Klitschko vs. Haye is Falling Apart, Negotiations Suspended
By Mark Vester
The proposed June 20th bout between WBO/IBF heavyweight champion Wladimir Klitschko and David Haye is in serious trouble. Revealed last week, the two sides were at odds over the UK television rights, the venue and Klitschko's team had claimed that Haye and his manager, Adam Booth, were being greedy and asking for a lot of money and making all sorts of demands.
The situation has gotten worse. Wladimir posted on his official website that negotiations with Haye and his team have been suspended until further notice and he plans to explore other options, including undefeated contender Chris Arreola, who is scheduled to fight on the April 11 undercard to Paul Williams-Winky Wright.
"The main problem is the lack of professionalism on the part of David Haye and his representatives. Haye can't figure out what he wants. Two weeks ago, negotiations were coming along. But, at this time they have been suspended. If Haye plans to continue [to negotiate] in the same way - it will be two more years before he gets his chance to reach a title fight - if he doesn't lose. In the event that a fight with the Brit will fall apart, we will fight Chris Arreola or find someone else. This will be determined later," Klitschko said.
By Mark Vester
The proposed June 20th bout between WBO/IBF heavyweight champion Wladimir Klitschko and David Haye is in serious trouble. Revealed last week, the two sides were at odds over the UK television rights, the venue and Klitschko's team had claimed that Haye and his manager, Adam Booth, were being greedy and asking for a lot of money and making all sorts of demands.
The situation has gotten worse. Wladimir posted on his official website that negotiations with Haye and his team have been suspended until further notice and he plans to explore other options, including undefeated contender Chris Arreola, who is scheduled to fight on the April 11 undercard to Paul Williams-Winky Wright.
"The main problem is the lack of professionalism on the part of David Haye and his representatives. Haye can't figure out what he wants. Two weeks ago, negotiations were coming along. But, at this time they have been suspended. If Haye plans to continue [to negotiate] in the same way - it will be two more years before he gets his chance to reach a title fight - if he doesn't lose. In the event that a fight with the Brit will fall apart, we will fight Chris Arreola or find someone else. This will be determined later," Klitschko said.
Miguel Cotto To Leave Top Rank Over Margarito?
By Mark Vester
Miguel Cotto may hold more than a grudge against his promoter, Top Rank, over their support of Antonio Margarito, who had his boxing license revoked on February 10 by the California State Athletic Commission. Margarito and trainer Javier Capetillo were sent packing by the CSAC over a foreign substance that was found in Margarito's hand wraps prior to the fight with Shane Mosley on January 24.
Top Rank's Bob Arum was outraged over the CSAC's decision and vowed to put together fights for Margarito in Mexico, where the fighter is 100% sure to obtain a license to box. During a recent conference call, Arum and Cotto clashed with their opinions on the situation. Cotto, who was knocked out by Margarito last July, said the Mexican fighter should be banned everywhere in the world. He was upset with the possibility of Margarito avoiding his punishment by going over to Mexico to fight. Arum was not upset with Cotto's comments and said his fighter was entitled to his own opinion on the matter.
A few days later, Cotto once again lashed out and took aim at Top Rank over their support of Margarito.
"I find it unbelievable that a company like Top Rank would put money ahead of the well-being of a human," Cotto told Primera Hora. "[Top Rank] knows that Margarito and his group knew what they were putting on the hands. Boxers climb into the ring to demonstrate our physical and athletic abilities and it's a lack of consideration to play with the health of another."
Cotto's contract with Top Rank is running out at the end of the year. He told the Los Angeles Times that he plans to explore his options at the end the year. It marked the first time that Cotto spoke out about a possible jump to a new promoter. Cotto has been with Top Rank since his pro debut.
"I'm just going to stay with them until the contract is finished," Cotto said. After that, we're going to sit with the company and talk."
When the paper asked Cotto if he could picture himself with a new promoter in 2010 - he quickly told the paper - "yes."
Arum was contacted by The Times and said that he explained to Cotto why he continues to support Margarito. He believes that cooler heads will come out of the situation and everything will work itself out.
"We stand by our fighters," Arum said. "No amount of monetary gain can make me throw Antonio Margarito under the bus. I've explained it to [Cotto]. I've explained it to people around him. It will all work out. Don't worry about it. This controversy will pass."
While Cotto has never come out and said it, he hints in almost every interview that Margarito may have used illegal hand wraps during their fight last July in Las Vegas. Many believe that Cotto's suspicions may be a big reason as to why Top Rank's support of Margairto is causing a real issue for Cotto.
"I'd like to think he fought me in the clean way. He didn't use anything and he just had a good night against me and he beat me," Cotto said. "You saw my face. I had a lot of swelling. But the only who can answer this question is Margarito himself."
By Mark Vester
Miguel Cotto may hold more than a grudge against his promoter, Top Rank, over their support of Antonio Margarito, who had his boxing license revoked on February 10 by the California State Athletic Commission. Margarito and trainer Javier Capetillo were sent packing by the CSAC over a foreign substance that was found in Margarito's hand wraps prior to the fight with Shane Mosley on January 24.
Top Rank's Bob Arum was outraged over the CSAC's decision and vowed to put together fights for Margarito in Mexico, where the fighter is 100% sure to obtain a license to box. During a recent conference call, Arum and Cotto clashed with their opinions on the situation. Cotto, who was knocked out by Margarito last July, said the Mexican fighter should be banned everywhere in the world. He was upset with the possibility of Margarito avoiding his punishment by going over to Mexico to fight. Arum was not upset with Cotto's comments and said his fighter was entitled to his own opinion on the matter.
A few days later, Cotto once again lashed out and took aim at Top Rank over their support of Margarito.
"I find it unbelievable that a company like Top Rank would put money ahead of the well-being of a human," Cotto told Primera Hora. "[Top Rank] knows that Margarito and his group knew what they were putting on the hands. Boxers climb into the ring to demonstrate our physical and athletic abilities and it's a lack of consideration to play with the health of another."
Cotto's contract with Top Rank is running out at the end of the year. He told the Los Angeles Times that he plans to explore his options at the end the year. It marked the first time that Cotto spoke out about a possible jump to a new promoter. Cotto has been with Top Rank since his pro debut.
"I'm just going to stay with them until the contract is finished," Cotto said. After that, we're going to sit with the company and talk."
When the paper asked Cotto if he could picture himself with a new promoter in 2010 - he quickly told the paper - "yes."
Arum was contacted by The Times and said that he explained to Cotto why he continues to support Margarito. He believes that cooler heads will come out of the situation and everything will work itself out.
"We stand by our fighters," Arum said. "No amount of monetary gain can make me throw Antonio Margarito under the bus. I've explained it to [Cotto]. I've explained it to people around him. It will all work out. Don't worry about it. This controversy will pass."
While Cotto has never come out and said it, he hints in almost every interview that Margarito may have used illegal hand wraps during their fight last July in Las Vegas. Many believe that Cotto's suspicions may be a big reason as to why Top Rank's support of Margairto is causing a real issue for Cotto.
"I'd like to think he fought me in the clean way. He didn't use anything and he just had a good night against me and he beat me," Cotto said. "You saw my face. I had a lot of swelling. But the only who can answer this question is Margarito himself."
Pacquiao's Body Will Be Ricky Hatton's Main Target
By Ronnie Nathanielsz
Its becoming increasingly clear that Britain ’s Rickly “The Hitman” Hatton is going to concentrate on working to the body in his “East Battles West” showdown against Filipino ring hero Manny Pacquiao in Las Vegas on May 2.
Speaking to BoxingScene.com, insidesports.ph, Standard Today and Viva Sports from the gym where Hatton works out in Ashton-under-Lyne, Lee Beard who is the IBO light welterweight champions British trainer said that “Ricky is known for being a body puncher and a lot of wins have come with shots to the body.”
Accentuating what is regarded as the strongest facet of Hatton’s offensive arsenal, Beard said it “doesn’t take a lot for Ricky to hurt somebody. He doesn’t need to unleash an accumulation of punches” to the body to take an opponent out.
He conceded that while Hatton “may not be the biggest puncher in the world, but he is a really, really heavy-handed, strong puncher. The one thing is he finds an opening to the body and he sets up his shots well so he doesn’t need to hit you nine or ten times to the body.”
Beard stressed “Ricky only needs to hit you once or twice before it starts to take effect.”
Although he conceded that Hatton’s “hand-speed is not as fast as Manny obviously, because Manny is extremely quick with his hands” Beard noted that Hatton “is also a fast-handed fighter and both fighters are very fast on their feet.”
Beard said Hatton had been working out in the gym prior to taking a family vacation on a Caribbean cruise and on his return “came up to the gym on Monday. This is the first stage of the training so he’s just settling himself into it, running and just warming his body back into it.”
Beard downplayed concern over Hatton’s tendency to bloat in-between fights because of his penchant for an excessive intake of junk food . This time around he said Hatton had “kept an eye on his junk food and kept on top of his weight because Ricky knows this is a massive fight for him.”
He said that Hatton “looks a bit lighter this time” when he reported to the gym compared to when he did prior to his last fight against Paulie Malignaggi. Beard said “I am not sure of his exact weight but Ricky looks good.”
Beard disclosed that he would continue to handle Hatton’s preparation until trainer Floyd Mayweather Sr’s scheduled arrival in Manchester on March 8 when the American trainer will take over. He said they would leave for Las Vegas five weeks before the fight.
The trainer noted that at the training c amp for Malignaggi “everything went really well. It was a really happy camp” and the result was a smashing victory for Hatton. He says they hope to duplicate the training camp environment for the Pacquiao fight which he predicted would be “an action-packed fight because Manny and Ricky both like to out on a show for the fans.”
By Ronnie Nathanielsz
Its becoming increasingly clear that Britain ’s Rickly “The Hitman” Hatton is going to concentrate on working to the body in his “East Battles West” showdown against Filipino ring hero Manny Pacquiao in Las Vegas on May 2.
Speaking to BoxingScene.com, insidesports.ph, Standard Today and Viva Sports from the gym where Hatton works out in Ashton-under-Lyne, Lee Beard who is the IBO light welterweight champions British trainer said that “Ricky is known for being a body puncher and a lot of wins have come with shots to the body.”
Accentuating what is regarded as the strongest facet of Hatton’s offensive arsenal, Beard said it “doesn’t take a lot for Ricky to hurt somebody. He doesn’t need to unleash an accumulation of punches” to the body to take an opponent out.
He conceded that while Hatton “may not be the biggest puncher in the world, but he is a really, really heavy-handed, strong puncher. The one thing is he finds an opening to the body and he sets up his shots well so he doesn’t need to hit you nine or ten times to the body.”
Beard stressed “Ricky only needs to hit you once or twice before it starts to take effect.”
Although he conceded that Hatton’s “hand-speed is not as fast as Manny obviously, because Manny is extremely quick with his hands” Beard noted that Hatton “is also a fast-handed fighter and both fighters are very fast on their feet.”
Beard said Hatton had been working out in the gym prior to taking a family vacation on a Caribbean cruise and on his return “came up to the gym on Monday. This is the first stage of the training so he’s just settling himself into it, running and just warming his body back into it.”
Beard downplayed concern over Hatton’s tendency to bloat in-between fights because of his penchant for an excessive intake of junk food . This time around he said Hatton had “kept an eye on his junk food and kept on top of his weight because Ricky knows this is a massive fight for him.”
He said that Hatton “looks a bit lighter this time” when he reported to the gym compared to when he did prior to his last fight against Paulie Malignaggi. Beard said “I am not sure of his exact weight but Ricky looks good.”
Beard disclosed that he would continue to handle Hatton’s preparation until trainer Floyd Mayweather Sr’s scheduled arrival in Manchester on March 8 when the American trainer will take over. He said they would leave for Las Vegas five weeks before the fight.
The trainer noted that at the training c amp for Malignaggi “everything went really well. It was a really happy camp” and the result was a smashing victory for Hatton. He says they hope to duplicate the training camp environment for the Pacquiao fight which he predicted would be “an action-packed fight because Manny and Ricky both like to out on a show for the fans.”
At Middleweight, Three Heads Ain’t Better Than One
By Cliff Rold
Middleweight could be an exciting division, one with contests intriguing enough to raise an anticipatory sweat on the palms of fans and excited butterflies in their guts.
It might be that division by the end of the year.
It isn’t right now.
This Saturday, 26-year old lineal World Champion Kelly Pavlik (34-1, 30 KO, Ring/WBC/WBO) makes his second defense of the title he won so dramatically in September 2007. It was the culmination of a meteoric year which saw the Youngstown, Ohio native explode into the elite with knockout wins on HBO over Jose Luis Zertuche, Edison Miranda, and finally Jermain Taylor for the crown.
In those three bouts, he went from question mark to answer.
As 2009 begins, there are questions again. Pavlik won his first two outings in 2008, first in a tough non-title rematch with Taylor at Super Middleweight and then in a walkover against Willie Standup (Gary Lockett). The Taylor bout was a contractual obligation, Lockett a mandatory and typical easy first defense for a young champion. Pavlik followed with another staple: the new lion set up to finish the old one in a Light heavyweight-ish (catchweight) bout.
Bernard Hopkins wasn’t in the mood to pass torches and instead set fire to Pavlik at mid-ring in Atlantic City. Over twelve full, Hopkins was hard pressed to lose seconds much less rounds of the fight. The 44-year old took the 26-year old to school, leaving some to logically ask how good the 26-year old really is.
It’s not the same as whether or not he’s generally good. He’s the champ; it didn’t happen by accident. If he never won another fight, he could know he had a career most fighters only dream about.
Still, at Middleweight, once atop the mountain, the bar is higher. The history is too long, the roster of champions too deep for good to be good enough.
Bad loss or not, the Hopkins bout was just a single loss. The opportunities can still present themselves to Pavlik to go from good to very good.
Even, maybe, great.
Marco Antonio Rubio (43-4-1, 37 KO) won’t get him there. It’s not a knock on Rubio. He too is a good fighter. He’s had a couple bad losses, more exciting wins, and earned his shot. Most objective ratings have him firmly entrenched in the top ten. A champion defending against a top ten contender is perfectly acceptable.
The problem at 160 lbs. right now is the gap between Pavlik, his two top contenders, and everyone else, is sizable. Below Pavlik are 28-year old IBF titlist Arthur Abraham (28-0, 23 KO) and 30-year old Felix Sturm (31-2-1, 13 KO). Abraham has held his title since 2005 with wins over game pros like Kingsley Ikeke and Miranda. Sturm has been a WBO and now two-time WBA beltholder since 2003 and, aside from a shocking loss to veteran Javier Castillejo, been a consistent force. His most recent win was a dominant decision against top ten contender Sebastian Sylvester. It may have been his best performance. Both, like Pavlik, remain in the proven good category with the chance for great still well off in the distance.
By the spring, they will likely be joined by either a resurgent former World Jr. Middleweight champion in Winky Wright (51-4-1, 25 KO) or the currently surging Paul Williams (36-1, 27 KO). We’ll know who after Wright-Williams on April 11th. Until the result is in, Middleweight remains a three dog race.
And none of the right dogs seem any closer to running on the same track.
There have been some teases. Sturm-Abraham got into the trash talking, show me the money phase in the press last year. Pavlik’s promoter, Bob Arum, has mentioned both German-based titlists as potential foes for his charge. Representatives of both Sturm and Abraham, and the fighters, have indicated willingness to face Pavlik as well.
Eventually.
Last week, Arum indicated he might have his eyes on John Duddy (25-0, 17 KO) first.
The New York-based Duddy is a fun fighter to watch but his record to date indicates a challenge closer to Lockett than Rubio.
As noted by BoxingScene’s Mark Vester on February 14, Arum told the Vindicator:
“There is a difference between the best fight and the biggest fight. The biggest fight is financial and the best fight is ... what boxing people would regard as the best fight. That clearly seems to me to be Abraham. But financially, nobody knows who Abraham is in this country. And it’s very, very hard turning it into the biggest fight,” Arum said to The Vindicator. “I’ve talked to both German promoters. I am confident at some time we’ll be able to do those fights.”
“You have to feed two thoroughbreds and sometimes you can only feed them with one pail. It is a problem, but it’s not an insurmountable problem. Duddy is certainly a big name. That could be a monster fight either in Cleveland or Madison Square Garden. It might not appeal to you as the best fight out there — Abraham probably would — but it’s probably bigger than the Abraham fight.”
One could counter Arum’s statement with an obvious question: big name to whom? There is no denying Pavlik-Duddy could be a gate draw in New York or Ohio but big name? Most American fight fans outside of the Northeast haven’t actually seen much of Duddy. He hasn’t had a slew of free major U.S. television appearances, certainly nothing with the profile of Abraham’s rematch of Edison Miranda on Showtime last year.
And nothing in the stratosphere of Strum’s highly controversial 2004 ‘loss’ to Oscar De la Hoya seen both on pay-per-view and HBO replay.
It’s not mutually exclusive of course. If Pavlik defeats Rubio as expected and can cash in to face Duddy, it’s not bad for the sport. This weekend’s fight has proven a solid draw in Youngstown and a raucous Garden crowd never hurts. Bigger tests can come after pockets are lined.
Could the pocket lining assumed be overstated? If last October’s Hopkins-Pavlik proved anything, it’s that ‘big names’ don’t necessarily translate to interested fans. The fight didn’t exactly set the pay-per-view sales numbers on fire. Paying customers who can’t get to the arena know a good fight when they see it and it’s hard to believe there are more fans who, given the slightest bit of education (i.e. smart promotion), would want to see Pavlik-Duddy over Pavlik-Abraham.
There’s sleight of hand in saying otherwise.
For now, it is what it is. Pavlik-Rubio will be followed by Abraham vs. Lujuan Simon (21-0-2, 12 KO) on March 14th and then Sturm-Koji Sato (14-0, 13 KO) on April 25th. They’re all decent fights on paper; they might be more than decent in the ring as a pleasant surprise. If the favorites win, they can keep taking fights like these for years and make a living.
Such schedules would produce few pre-fight butterflies, and little thrill of the unknown, for fans. There won’t any of that until these top three start whittling down to one.
The fluttering starts when the good are challenged to be more than that.
By Cliff Rold
Middleweight could be an exciting division, one with contests intriguing enough to raise an anticipatory sweat on the palms of fans and excited butterflies in their guts.
It might be that division by the end of the year.
It isn’t right now.
This Saturday, 26-year old lineal World Champion Kelly Pavlik (34-1, 30 KO, Ring/WBC/WBO) makes his second defense of the title he won so dramatically in September 2007. It was the culmination of a meteoric year which saw the Youngstown, Ohio native explode into the elite with knockout wins on HBO over Jose Luis Zertuche, Edison Miranda, and finally Jermain Taylor for the crown.
In those three bouts, he went from question mark to answer.
As 2009 begins, there are questions again. Pavlik won his first two outings in 2008, first in a tough non-title rematch with Taylor at Super Middleweight and then in a walkover against Willie Standup (Gary Lockett). The Taylor bout was a contractual obligation, Lockett a mandatory and typical easy first defense for a young champion. Pavlik followed with another staple: the new lion set up to finish the old one in a Light heavyweight-ish (catchweight) bout.
Bernard Hopkins wasn’t in the mood to pass torches and instead set fire to Pavlik at mid-ring in Atlantic City. Over twelve full, Hopkins was hard pressed to lose seconds much less rounds of the fight. The 44-year old took the 26-year old to school, leaving some to logically ask how good the 26-year old really is.
It’s not the same as whether or not he’s generally good. He’s the champ; it didn’t happen by accident. If he never won another fight, he could know he had a career most fighters only dream about.
Still, at Middleweight, once atop the mountain, the bar is higher. The history is too long, the roster of champions too deep for good to be good enough.
Bad loss or not, the Hopkins bout was just a single loss. The opportunities can still present themselves to Pavlik to go from good to very good.
Even, maybe, great.
Marco Antonio Rubio (43-4-1, 37 KO) won’t get him there. It’s not a knock on Rubio. He too is a good fighter. He’s had a couple bad losses, more exciting wins, and earned his shot. Most objective ratings have him firmly entrenched in the top ten. A champion defending against a top ten contender is perfectly acceptable.
The problem at 160 lbs. right now is the gap between Pavlik, his two top contenders, and everyone else, is sizable. Below Pavlik are 28-year old IBF titlist Arthur Abraham (28-0, 23 KO) and 30-year old Felix Sturm (31-2-1, 13 KO). Abraham has held his title since 2005 with wins over game pros like Kingsley Ikeke and Miranda. Sturm has been a WBO and now two-time WBA beltholder since 2003 and, aside from a shocking loss to veteran Javier Castillejo, been a consistent force. His most recent win was a dominant decision against top ten contender Sebastian Sylvester. It may have been his best performance. Both, like Pavlik, remain in the proven good category with the chance for great still well off in the distance.
By the spring, they will likely be joined by either a resurgent former World Jr. Middleweight champion in Winky Wright (51-4-1, 25 KO) or the currently surging Paul Williams (36-1, 27 KO). We’ll know who after Wright-Williams on April 11th. Until the result is in, Middleweight remains a three dog race.
And none of the right dogs seem any closer to running on the same track.
There have been some teases. Sturm-Abraham got into the trash talking, show me the money phase in the press last year. Pavlik’s promoter, Bob Arum, has mentioned both German-based titlists as potential foes for his charge. Representatives of both Sturm and Abraham, and the fighters, have indicated willingness to face Pavlik as well.
Eventually.
Last week, Arum indicated he might have his eyes on John Duddy (25-0, 17 KO) first.
The New York-based Duddy is a fun fighter to watch but his record to date indicates a challenge closer to Lockett than Rubio.
As noted by BoxingScene’s Mark Vester on February 14, Arum told the Vindicator:
“There is a difference between the best fight and the biggest fight. The biggest fight is financial and the best fight is ... what boxing people would regard as the best fight. That clearly seems to me to be Abraham. But financially, nobody knows who Abraham is in this country. And it’s very, very hard turning it into the biggest fight,” Arum said to The Vindicator. “I’ve talked to both German promoters. I am confident at some time we’ll be able to do those fights.”
“You have to feed two thoroughbreds and sometimes you can only feed them with one pail. It is a problem, but it’s not an insurmountable problem. Duddy is certainly a big name. That could be a monster fight either in Cleveland or Madison Square Garden. It might not appeal to you as the best fight out there — Abraham probably would — but it’s probably bigger than the Abraham fight.”
One could counter Arum’s statement with an obvious question: big name to whom? There is no denying Pavlik-Duddy could be a gate draw in New York or Ohio but big name? Most American fight fans outside of the Northeast haven’t actually seen much of Duddy. He hasn’t had a slew of free major U.S. television appearances, certainly nothing with the profile of Abraham’s rematch of Edison Miranda on Showtime last year.
And nothing in the stratosphere of Strum’s highly controversial 2004 ‘loss’ to Oscar De la Hoya seen both on pay-per-view and HBO replay.
It’s not mutually exclusive of course. If Pavlik defeats Rubio as expected and can cash in to face Duddy, it’s not bad for the sport. This weekend’s fight has proven a solid draw in Youngstown and a raucous Garden crowd never hurts. Bigger tests can come after pockets are lined.
Could the pocket lining assumed be overstated? If last October’s Hopkins-Pavlik proved anything, it’s that ‘big names’ don’t necessarily translate to interested fans. The fight didn’t exactly set the pay-per-view sales numbers on fire. Paying customers who can’t get to the arena know a good fight when they see it and it’s hard to believe there are more fans who, given the slightest bit of education (i.e. smart promotion), would want to see Pavlik-Duddy over Pavlik-Abraham.
There’s sleight of hand in saying otherwise.
For now, it is what it is. Pavlik-Rubio will be followed by Abraham vs. Lujuan Simon (21-0-2, 12 KO) on March 14th and then Sturm-Koji Sato (14-0, 13 KO) on April 25th. They’re all decent fights on paper; they might be more than decent in the ring as a pleasant surprise. If the favorites win, they can keep taking fights like these for years and make a living.
Such schedules would produce few pre-fight butterflies, and little thrill of the unknown, for fans. There won’t any of that until these top three start whittling down to one.
The fluttering starts when the good are challenged to be more than that.
