Boxing News Thread

[HERESY]

With pound 4 pound lists, The Ring Magazine, ESPN, etc. do not take official records if they believe the decisions were terrible. For DIVISIONAL rankings and BELTS (including the lineal belt), obviously they go by official records. But if you have a fight where 99.99% of boxing writers, experts, plus public all believe fighter A won despite fighter B getting the gift decision, that doesn't effect a pound 4 pound poll (which has never been an official anything set in stone, simply opinions on who they think are the best 10 fighters in the sport).

Man we aren't talking about Ring, ESPN, etc. You can do a P4P anyway you want because, at the end, it's 100% opinion anyway. I'm just asking if we are going by the official wins/losses or performance? Because if we go by performance, Pac definitely does NOT get the 3 slot.

I think outside of Hopkins their resumes are very similar:

Kovalev beat Campillo, Cleverly, Caparello, Sillah, Agnew
Stevenson beat Fonfara, Bellew, Cloud, Dawson

Which of Kovalevs opponents stacks up to Dawson? Shit Cloud beat Campillo.

Very, very similar. Dawson would have been a good win if not for the fact he got the shit beat out of him the fight before by Andre Ward and knocked out, and has looked like shit ever since.

Come on now, seriously? So now you want to take the mans win away? Yet when I mention Tito not being a natural fit in the weight class he fought Hopkins at you fight tooth and claw to make the win stick. And it was nine months between the fights, he had enough time to recover.

So obviously the Hopkins fight is the deciding factor. Kovalev is above Stevenson because the Hopkins win is better than anyone Stevenson has beat.

And that puts him at #7????????

See above. Cloud another good point, he was coming off a schooling from Bernard Hopkins.

He had over a year to recover. Try again.

 

[HERESY]

This was harder than I thought but I'd have to say...

Mayweather
Rigondeaux
Pacquiao
Chocaltito
Klitschko
Bradley
JMM
Froch
Garcia
Cotto

Not at that spot. Not on the list.

 

[HERESY]

The losing to Ward part is kind of a big deal, man. It's not like he just lost some decision or something. He got the living shit beat out of him. He's never been the same. First punch he took from stevenson he goes down. There's reason why.

So Stevenson having a KO ratio of around 90% had nothing to do with it?

 

[Coach E. No]

Not at that spot. Not on the list.

I lol'd. I don't fault anyone for not putting HW's on there and normally I never would. Dude has earned it. Hasn't lost but a couple of rounds in like 5-7 years or so. What he's doing is the most dominant reign of this era by a long shot. You can hate this era of Heavyweights and all that, but dude deserves props for this title run.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

I wouldn't go that far. He got schooled and dropped twice but neither knockdown was a huge knockdown like Bradley going down against Holt or something. He moved down too far in weight, which maybe he wasn't the same as much from trying to cut that weight and fight etc... He got completely outclassed, I'm not refuting that, but the loss vs Ward and Stevenson were in completely different leagues man. Getting outboxed and getting stretchered are night and day. If Ward ruined Dawson, Dawson still schooled the same BHop you're giving Kovalev a ton of credit for beating even though it was a couple years later (which normally wouldn't be that big a deal but it is when you're 47++ years old)

Moving down in weight and getting knocked out (he suffered a concussion) by Ward ruined him. It's the same exact thing that happened to Roy Jones. He moves down in weight, gets knocked out by Tarver, then in his next fight gets flattened even worse by Glen Johnson. Never was the same fighter again. Look at Dawson since Ward - KO loss by FIRST punch landed and a loss to some random chump. He's done, finished. Actually it would have been more impressive if Dawson took some shots first then got KO'd. him getting knocked out by literally the first punch landed pretty much proved his chin was done.

And yes, Dawson beat Hopkins...when he was still a top fighter. He's no longer a top fighter. I just don't think there's much of a debate here - Kovalev is higher than Stevenson. Now if you don't think either belong on the top 10, ok that's fine, as long as Krusher is higher than Stevenson who took the easy way out instead of fighting tough opponents (both Kovalev and Hopkins). Can't excuse that. I'll praise the guys who are fighting each other not hiding behind a manager.

Anyways, feel free to make your own top 10 list. I'm not the only one capable of doing it.

 

[HERESY]

I lol'd. I don't fault anyone for not putting HW's on there and normally I never would. Dude has earned it. Hasn't lost but a couple of rounds in like 5-7 years or so. What he's doing is the most dominant reign of this era by a long shot. You can hate this era of Heavyweights and all that, but dude deserves props for this title run.

I do not see the Klitschko brothers as good fighters. Physically they are big guys but I really don't see the skills that some people claim they have. I mean if you look at it, most of their fights are a "who's who of nobodies." So if he goes on, GGG goes on, and now the list is all fucked up.:dead:

Oh yeah, Pac shouldn't be 3.

 

[HERESY]

Moving down in weight and getting knocked out (he suffered a concussion) by Ward ruined him. It's the same exact thing that happened to Roy Jones. He moves down in weight, gets knocked out by Tarver, then in his next fight gets flattened even worse by Glen Johnson. Never was the same fighter again. Look at Dawson since Ward - KO loss by FIRST punch landed and a loss to some random chump. He's done, finished. Actually it would have been more impressive if Dawson took some shots first then got KO'd. him getting knocked out by literally the first punch landed pretty much proved his chin was done.

And yes, Dawson beat Hopkins...when he was still a top fighter. He's no longer a top fighter. I just don't think there's much of a debate here - Kovalev is higher than Stevenson. Now if you don't think either belong on the top 10, ok that's fine, as long as Krusher is higher than Stevenson who took the easy way out instead of fighting tough opponents (both Kovalev and Hopkins). Can't excuse that. I'll praise the guys who are fighting each other not hiding behind a manager.

Anyways, feel free to make your own top 10 list. I'm not the only one capable of doing it.

STOP CRYING NIGGA! YOU KNOW YOU GOT STEVENSON RANKED HIGHER. STOP TROLLIN!

 

[HERESY]

206, fam, you are going to say Kovalev deserves a spot higher than Canelo?

 

[Coach E. No]

Moving down in weight and getting knocked out (he suffered a concussion) by Ward ruined him. It's the same exact thing that happened to Roy Jones. He moves down in weight, gets knocked out by Tarver, then in his next fight gets flattened even worse by Glen Johnson. Never was the same fighter again. Look at Dawson since Ward - KO loss by FIRST punch landed and a loss to some random chump. He's done, finished. Actually it would have been more impressive if Dawson took some shots first then got KO'd. him getting knocked out by literally the first punch landed pretty much proved his chin was done.

And yes, Dawson beat Hopkins...when he was still a top fighter. He's no longer a top fighter. I just don't think there's much of a debate here - Kovalev is higher than Stevenson. Now if you don't think either belong on the top 10, ok that's fine, as long as Krusher is higher than Stevenson who took the easy way out instead of fighting tough opponents (both Kovalev and Hopkins). Can't excuse that. I'll praise the guys who are fighting each other not hiding behind a manager.

Anyways, feel free to make your own top 10 list. I'm not the only one capable of doing it.

You can't knock Stevenson down IMO for someone he didn't fight, that's silly. Only instance would be not fighting multiple top guys while someone fighting for that spot on the P4p list is fighting all of those guys. As it stands now, Kovalev fought one main guy that Stevenson didn't.

And while it's the same in theory, Jones moved down 25 lean pounds to 175. Dawson moved down 7lbs. As I said, it wasn't a good idea to begin with and I agree he got schooled by Ward, but the knockout came from a single/massive punch. Maybe you argue his reflexes weren't the same etc... fine. But Stevenson is higher than Kovalev to me. He ko'd the lineal champ with 1 punch.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Man we aren't talking about Ring, ESPN, etc. You can do a P4P anyway you want because, at the end, it's 100% opinion anyway. I'm just asking if we are going by the official wins/losses or performance? Because if we go by performance, Pac definitely does NOT get the 3 slot.

Why would we go by official win/loss if it's a blantly bad decision when discussing pound 4 pound? Lineal belts or whatever that's a different story, pound 4 pound like you say is based on opinion, perception, etc.

I put Pacquiao #3 more out of default because Ward got dropped from the list, he beat Bradley x2 times and JMM lost to Bradley. You can shift those three guys any which way you'd like I don't really care (you can make your own list bro, nothing holding you back).

Which of Kovalevs opponents stacks up to Dawson? Shit Cloud beat Campillo.

Pretty much any of them being that Dawson was just ruined by Ward.

Come on now, seriously? So now you want to take the mans win away?

How am I taking his win away? He won the lineal title, he became THE champ with that win. That can never be taking away from him.

What I'm saying is simply this - his win, as far as pound 4 pound lists go - is not that impressive considering Dawson just got his ass whooped and knocked out right before. That's what it is.

Yet when I mention Tito not being a natural fit in the weight class he fought Hopkins at you fight tooth and claw to make the win stick. And it was nine months between the fights, he had enough time to recover.

This is on a different planet that's how far apart these two arguements are. Tito was undefeated, a middleweight champion, pound 4 pound #2 and a 7-1 favorite to beat Hopkins. Now if he got the shit kicked out of him and knocked out right before, then that would be similar. But of course Tito was never stopped (until Hopkins).

And that puts him at #7????????

7, 8, 9 or 10. Like I said several times now, this was a list off the top of my head and that nothing here is set in stone. I also said you can shift these names around but these are the top 10 guys to me right now. The position, or the number, is not really relevant to me (7 or 10 it doesn't matter).

He had over a year to recover. Try again.

Try again what? Cloud was coming off a loss to Hopkins. That's a fact.

 

[Coach E. No]

I do not see the Klitschko brothers as good fighters. Physically they are big guys but I really don't see the skills that some people claim they have. I mean if you look at it, most of their fights are a "who's who of nobodies." So if he goes on, GGG goes on, and now the list is all fucked up.:dead:

Oh yeah, Pac shouldn't be 3.

maaaaaaaaaan, Vitali was pretty skilled for a dude of his size man. Not sure how you can knock him.

Wlad has a glass chin, but has managed to revamp his game and use his skills (call them basic if you want to) to wipe out the top 10, and some of them twice. Can't blame him for his opponent selection. He hasn't ducked anyone and KO'd everyone except Haye who fought extremely tentative

 

[2-0-Sixx]

206, fam, you are going to say Kovalev deserves a spot higher than Canelo?

Probably yeah. Like I said you can shift those names around anyway, I don't know why you're arguing like this is set in stone LMAO. Personally I think Kovalev is a much better fighter than Canelo. Canelo has a better resume, just like he has a better resume than Rigondeaux, but p4p lists are based on skills, resume, etc. That's my opinion. Make your own list breh and stop worrying about which position one guy is lol

 

[HERESY]

Why would we go by official win/loss if it's a blantly bad decision when discussing pound 4 pound? Lineal belts or whatever that's a different story, pound 4 pound like you say is based on opinion, perception, etc.

Because it's p4p and all subjective and opinion based. You can go by the official win/loss and strictly look at how they won/lost and go from there.

I put Pacquiao #3 more out of default because Ward got dropped from the list, he beat Bradley x2 times and JMM lost to Bradley. You can shift those three guys any which way you'd like I don't really care (you can make your own list bro, nothing holding you back).

JMM lost to Bradley but out of all those guys Pac got knocked out. So Pac has a knockout against him and I'll give him a win over Bradley. JMM has a 12 round loss against Bradley (not a clinic or total domination) and a KO of Pac. Then you have Bradley with a gift over pac, which we are going to call a loss for the sake of argument and a win over JMM. So out of all that who comes out on top? Not Pac.

Pretty much any of them being that Dawson was just ruined by Ward.

He was not ruined by Ward. Stop it.

How am I taking his win away? He won the lineal title, he became THE champ with that win. That can never be taking away from him.

You are trying to take it away.

What I'm saying is simply this - his win, as far as pound 4 pound lists go - is not that impressive considering Dawson just got his ass whooped and knocked out right before. That's what it is.

Yes he got whopped and knocked out but he had nine months to recover. He got knocked out by a guy with a KO ratio that is close to 90% if it isn't 90.

This is on a different planet that's how far apart these two arguements are. Tito was undefeated, a middleweight champion, pound 4 pound #2 and a 7-1 favorite to beat Hopkins. Now if he got the shit kicked out of him and knocked out right before, then that would be similar. But of course Tito was never stopped (until Hopkins).

Here we go again. The guy was not a natural mw. The same argument you are using for Dwson being drained is basically he wasn't in his right weight class. Same can be said for Tito in fighting a guy who had 50 fuckin years as a MW.

7, 8, 9 or 10. Like I said several times now, this was a list off the top of my head and that nothing here is set in stone. I also said you can shift these names around but these are the top 10 guys to me right now. The position, or the number, is not really relevant to me (7 or 10 it doesn't matter).

And I said you could put Stevenson ahead of Kovalev but to put him at 7 and not have the other guy on the list? Based on one performance when they are pretty much equal in KO percentage, both hold titles and have a resume that is roughly the same?

Try again what? Cloud was coming off a loss to Hopkins. That's a fact.

And had over a year to recover.

 

[HERESY]

maaaaaaaaaan, Vitali was pretty skilled for a dude of his size man. Not sure how you can knock him.

Wlad has a glass chin, but has managed to revamp his game and use his skills (call them basic if you want to) to wipe out the top 10, and some of them twice. Can't blame him for his opponent selection. He hasn't ducked anyone and KO'd everyone except Haye who fought extremely tentative

Skills over what type of opponents? It's not like there are tons of skilled fighters at HW like you have at mw, lhw, etc. The HW division is a class of nobodies.

 

[HERESY]

Probably yeah. Like I said you can shift those names around anyway, I don't know why you're arguing like this is set in stone LMAO. Personally I think Kovalev is a much better fighter than Canelo. Canelo has a better resume, just like he has a better resume than Rigondeaux, but p4p lists are based on skills, resume, etc. That's my opinion. Make your own list breh and stop worrying about which position one guy is lol

Stop trollin. How you gonna say it's based on resume and skills qhwn Kovalev doesn;t have a better resume and so far, Canelo has shown he has more skills? Canelo can be in danger and work his way out. He can go 12 against fighters that are not the same age as people in the Bible.

Come on man, stop trollin. You posted the list you knew someone would say something.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

JMM lost to Bradley but out of all those guys Pac got knocked out. So Pac has a knockout against him and I'll give him a win over Bradley. JMM has a 12 round loss against Bradley (not a clinic or total domination) and a KO of Pac. Then you have Bradley with a gift over pac, which we are going to call a loss for the sake of argument and a win over JMM. So out of all that who comes out on top? Not Pac.

You tell me then. Who comes out on top. Still waiting for that list.

Yes JMM KO'd Pac and Pac beat Bradley who beat JMM. The way I'm looking at is is who is the overall better fighter and imo that is Pac. I like Pacs chances against more guys out there that I don't see JMM winning.

He was not ruined by Ward. Stop it.

He's never been the same from that whooping, that's all I know.

You are trying to take it away.

He's the lineal champ.

And I said you could put Stevenson ahead of Kovalev but to put him at 7 and not have the other guy on the list? Based on one performance when they are pretty much equal in KO percentage, both hold titles and have a resume that is roughly the same?

Kovalev is the UNIFIED champ. He has three belts. Stevenson one.

And had over a year to recover.

Coming off a loss.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Stop trollin. How you gonna say it's based on resume and skills qhwn Kovalev doesn;t have a better resume and so far, Canelo has shown he has more skills? Canelo can be in danger and work his way out. He can go 12 against fighters that are not the same age as people in the Bible.

Come on man, stop trollin. You posted the list you knew someone would say something.

Why is Rigondeaux regarded so highly? Because of the skills he shows in the ring. His resume isn't nearly as deep as many, many fighters. But if we're judging skills here, obviously he's one of the most skilled fighters in boxing, thus his high p4p ranking. Again, p4p isn't based on resume alone, it's a factor, but it's a combination of skills, resume, perception/opinon.

When I look at Canelo I see a well rounded fighter. He's not great. He's got a very good resume. Kovalev to me is a more skilled fighter than Canelo and more intelligent(and obviously more powerful). That is my opinion based on what I see in the ring. Again, #7 was never set in stone. The list was totally off the fly I did in about 1 minute. I don't care where the number is, if Canelo is a spot or two higher than Kovalev, whatever that's fine.

Make a list and stop ducking and dodging. Coach had the courage! Unlike you and Stevenson duckin haha

 

[HERESY]

JMM lost to Bradley but out of all those guys Pac got knocked out. So Pac has a knockout against him and I'll give him a win over Bradley. JMM has a 12 round loss against Bradley (not a clinic or total domination) and a KO of Pac. Then you have Bradley with a gift over pac, which we are going to call a loss for the sake of argument and a win over JMM. So out of all that who comes out on top? Not Pac.

You tell me then. Who comes out on top. Still waiting for that list.

1. That fighter from the mideast who has knocked out everyone and is undefeated.
2. Floyd
3. Rig
4. JMM
5. Bradley
6. Canelo
7. Crawford
8. Froch
9. Garcia
10. Stevenson/Kovalev

Yes JMM KO'd Pac and Pac beat Bradley who beat JMM. The way I'm looking at is is who is the overall better fighter and imo that is Pac. I like Pacs chances against more guys out there that I don't see JMM winning.

Like who?

He's never been the same from that whooping, that's all I know.

You know it was always a matter of what Dawson showed up. The guy is a headcase.

He's the lineal champ.

And WBC champ.

Kovalev is the UNIFIED champ. He has three belts. Stevenson one.

Lineal champ and wbc champ.

Coming off a loss.

So? He had time to recover. Pac came off a terrible knockout. Tyson has come off of brutal beatings, it happens. Stop trying to make it seem as if these guys were dying.

 

[HERESY]

Why is Rigondeaux regarded so highly? Because of the skills he shows in the ring. His resume isn't nearly as deep as many, many fighters. But if we're judging skills here, obviously he's one of the most skilled fighters in boxing, thus his high p4p ranking. Again, p4p isn't based on resume alone, it's a factor, but it's a combination of skills, resume, perception/opinon.

Again, P4P is based on whatever you, as the person making the list, want it to be. If this were not the case EVERYONES P4P would be the EXACT same thing. It is ALL opinion and what you are basing it on.

When I look at Canelo I see a well rounded fighter. He's not great. He's got a very good resume. Kovalev to me is a more skilled fighter than Canelo and more intelligent(and obviously more powerful). That is my opinion based on what I see in the ring. Again, #7 was never set in stone. The list was totally off the fly I did in about 1 minute. I don't care where the number is, if Canelo is a spot or two higher than Kovalev, whatever that's fine.

And I see Kovalev as something different. I see Kovalev as putting on a great fight against one person. A 50 year old man. Aside from his KO's, which are impressive, he hasn't shown me what he is capable of when it comes to straight up technical stuff. He can cut the ring off, he knows how to punch but Canelo can do the same thing and better (obviously doesn't have the power.)

Make a list and stop ducking and dodging. Coach had the courage! Unlike you and Stevenson duckin haha

lol! I made it man, Look at the list.

 

[battle619]

Hell yeah it's all based on opinion! Like I wouldn't put Floyd as #1 cuz he hasn't fought anyone noteworthy of keeping him up there since Cotto and has only made 1 legit defense of that 154 title since (Canelo was a catchweight). AS far as Kovalev is concerned if he does rank on the p4p list, it's number 10. Fighters like Loma and Jhonny Gonzalez look unstoppable right now and should be ranked.