Yeah yeah! The Anahiem Angels signed one of the top 3 hitters in the league, Vlad Guerrero, to a 5 year deal reportedly worth 70 million. We've already fixed our rotation by acquiring Colon and Escobar, and now we've improved our aging offense by acquiring Guillen and now Vlad. Plus, we already had the best 'pen in the whole league. This is our year again. Fucc the Mariners, and fucc the choke artist A's. Stand up Southern Cali!
Angels land Vlad
- Thread starter Sicc_Wit_It
- Start date
I guess y'all are forgetting about Donnelly's incredible season, Frankie Rodriguez's great finish after a terrible start ending the season with an ERA around 3 and a WHIP around 1, Troy Percival, Scott Shields, etc. We were overall the best 'pen in the league. LA was just fortunate enough to have the best closer in the league.
Re: Re: Re: Angels land Vlad
no that would be LA
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1614555
RANKING THE BULLPENS
National League
1. Los Angeles Dodgers
The best bullpen on earth, no matter how you analyze it. The closer, the great Eric (Game Over) Gagne, is 50 for 50 in saves, has allowed six hits all year with men in scoring position and has allowed no hits since July 2 with men on base. But it's the set-up crew that makes this bullpen so untouchable. Guillermo Mota leads all NL set-up men in innings pitched (93 1/3) but has the lowest ERA of any of them (1.45). Paul Quantrill has the third-best set-up ERA (1.78). Hitters are 4-for-40 off Paul Shuey with men in scoring position. And the lefthanded specialist, Tom Martin, has come marching in to allow the first batter he's faced to go 7-for-63 (.111). The batting average against the entire bullpen is .204 _ meaning it has essentially turned the whole league into Henry Blanco. No wonder this team has lost just five games all year when leading after FIVE innings.
What players/scouts say: "They don't have a weak link." ... "Mota would be closing on about 29 other teams, and most likely would be an All-Star." ... "The combination of Gagne and Mota reminds me a little of the '96 Yankees (Mariano Rivera setting up for John Wetteland)." ... "Gagne is the first reliever I've ever seen who deserves the Cy Young, unanimously. I couldn't put stats up on any video game like he's putting up in the National League. Best one-inning pitcher I've ever watched." ... "Mota is the key to Gagne, because they can use him for two innings, and he gets better the more he throws."
2. Houston Astros
It's no accident that the Astros became the first team ever to throw a six-pitcher no-hitter, because nobody waves for that bullpen like Jimy Williams. This 'pen is the only one out there that already has four relievers (Billy Wagner, Octavio Dotel, Brad Lidge and Ricky Stone) with 70-plus innings apiece. But whoever Williams brings in almost always makes him look smart. Wagner hasn't blown a save since June, and the league is hitting .164 against him. So compared to facing him, it's almost fun to run into Dotel (.183) or Lidge (.193). The only worries are Dotel's strained gluteus muscle and Lidge's second-half fatigue (5.76 ERA since the break).
What players/scouts say: "Lidge comes in throwing 96-98. Then Dotel comes in throwing 96-97 with good breaking stuff. Then Wagner comes in throwing 101. It's pretty damn impressive." ... "They come in and blow you away. I call it the hard, harder and hardest bullpen." ... "If you aren't leading after seven against the Astros or Dodgers, you aren't going to win." ... (Pessimist Dept.) "To be honest, I'm not sold on their ability to get left-handers out (besides Wagner) or their overall depth."
3. San Francisco Giants
You look at the names -- Tim Worrell, Matt Herges, Scott Eyre, Joe Nathan, Felix Rodriguez -- and they don't scare you. But there's a reason this team is 45-19 in one- and two-run games, 19-2 in one-run games at home and 66-4 when it leads after seven innings. And it isn't: "because Barry hits one into the Cove in the ninth inning every night." No, this team is fourth in the league in bullpen ERA. The Giants never could have survived Robb Nen's shoulder surgery if Worrell (18 saves in his last 21 opportunities) hadn't done such a shocking imitation of his big brother (Todd). And in case you hadn't noticed, their bullpen MVP is Joe Nathan, against whom right-handed hitters are batting a ridiculous .139. Like their whole team, this bullpen is better than the sum of its parts.
What players/scouts say: "I like them better than the Astros, to be honest. When you get to the playoffs, you need a lot of arms to get you to the end, and they've got the depth." ... "There are questions about Worrell closing out a playoff game, but it isn't about one guy."
4. Atlanta Braves
If you go by the numbers, the Braves (4.11 bullpen ERA) don't even belong this high. And if John Smoltz isn't himself, they'll go from fourth to eighth. But in the games that matter most, you give extra points to a team with a closer who has that see-ya-tomorrow aura. So if we were sure about Smoltz's health, we would actually rank this bullpen No. 3 -- because when Smoltz is right, he's as good as it gets (0.89 ERA, a 67-to-8 strikeout-walk ratio, a .153 average against him with men on base). The question is, is he OK? He's pitched 3 1/3 innings since Aug. 2, was used twice in 20 days before he went on the disabled list and then, instead of returning from the DL this week, headed to Birmingham for a visit with Dr. James Andrews. So the flags are all red, no matter how amazing the well-traveled Will Cunnane (3 saves, 1.26 ERA) has been in his place this month. Because except for Ray King, who leads all NL left-handers in appearances, there are huge questions about the set-up gang.
What players/scouts say: "Smoltz had better come back 100 percent or Hotlanta could be going home very early. I don't care how great they hit." ... "How Roberto Hernandez pitches can make the difference in the playoffs. He has the ability to dominate hitters, but goes into funks." ... "When we play Atlanta, we always say, 'If we can get into their bullpen before Smoltz gets in the game, we've got a chance.' "
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1610979
By Peter Gammons
Special to ESPN.com
Sept. 8
So the only two bullpens capable of carrying their teams through three postseason series are the Dodgers and Astros. The Eric Gagne-Guillermo Mota combination is the most dominant game (capably set up by Paul Quantrill and Paul Shuey, all of whom have contributed to a bullpen that took a 406 2/3 IP/407 SO/126 BB record through Sunday), closely followed by Billy Wagner-Octavio Dotel-Brad Lidge.
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/N...0929&content_id=549383&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp
There's something in which the Dodgers can take pride. It starts where the games end, with closer extraordinaire Eric Gagne. He rewrote the record books for his evolving position with a perfect season, the most dominating Dodgers pitcher since Sandy Koufax and the most effective weapon in the game this side of Barry Bonds.
Along with Gagne, the entire Dodgers bullpen was so good it allowed Tracy to formulate a game strategy around it. Guillermo Mota's breakout season will put him at the top of other teams' shopping lists and the Dodgers will be hard-pressed to resist the temptation to deal him. Paul Quantrill was an ironman set-up reliever for Gagne, while Paul Shuey fought through hip problems to be a bridge to the later innings. Tom Martin, unemployed at the start of spring training, got a tryout on the recommendation of his buddy Shuey and wound up breaking the franchise record for appearances by a left-hander.
no that would be LA
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1614555
RANKING THE BULLPENS
National League
1. Los Angeles Dodgers
The best bullpen on earth, no matter how you analyze it. The closer, the great Eric (Game Over) Gagne, is 50 for 50 in saves, has allowed six hits all year with men in scoring position and has allowed no hits since July 2 with men on base. But it's the set-up crew that makes this bullpen so untouchable. Guillermo Mota leads all NL set-up men in innings pitched (93 1/3) but has the lowest ERA of any of them (1.45). Paul Quantrill has the third-best set-up ERA (1.78). Hitters are 4-for-40 off Paul Shuey with men in scoring position. And the lefthanded specialist, Tom Martin, has come marching in to allow the first batter he's faced to go 7-for-63 (.111). The batting average against the entire bullpen is .204 _ meaning it has essentially turned the whole league into Henry Blanco. No wonder this team has lost just five games all year when leading after FIVE innings.
What players/scouts say: "They don't have a weak link." ... "Mota would be closing on about 29 other teams, and most likely would be an All-Star." ... "The combination of Gagne and Mota reminds me a little of the '96 Yankees (Mariano Rivera setting up for John Wetteland)." ... "Gagne is the first reliever I've ever seen who deserves the Cy Young, unanimously. I couldn't put stats up on any video game like he's putting up in the National League. Best one-inning pitcher I've ever watched." ... "Mota is the key to Gagne, because they can use him for two innings, and he gets better the more he throws."
2. Houston Astros
It's no accident that the Astros became the first team ever to throw a six-pitcher no-hitter, because nobody waves for that bullpen like Jimy Williams. This 'pen is the only one out there that already has four relievers (Billy Wagner, Octavio Dotel, Brad Lidge and Ricky Stone) with 70-plus innings apiece. But whoever Williams brings in almost always makes him look smart. Wagner hasn't blown a save since June, and the league is hitting .164 against him. So compared to facing him, it's almost fun to run into Dotel (.183) or Lidge (.193). The only worries are Dotel's strained gluteus muscle and Lidge's second-half fatigue (5.76 ERA since the break).
What players/scouts say: "Lidge comes in throwing 96-98. Then Dotel comes in throwing 96-97 with good breaking stuff. Then Wagner comes in throwing 101. It's pretty damn impressive." ... "They come in and blow you away. I call it the hard, harder and hardest bullpen." ... "If you aren't leading after seven against the Astros or Dodgers, you aren't going to win." ... (Pessimist Dept.) "To be honest, I'm not sold on their ability to get left-handers out (besides Wagner) or their overall depth."
3. San Francisco Giants
You look at the names -- Tim Worrell, Matt Herges, Scott Eyre, Joe Nathan, Felix Rodriguez -- and they don't scare you. But there's a reason this team is 45-19 in one- and two-run games, 19-2 in one-run games at home and 66-4 when it leads after seven innings. And it isn't: "because Barry hits one into the Cove in the ninth inning every night." No, this team is fourth in the league in bullpen ERA. The Giants never could have survived Robb Nen's shoulder surgery if Worrell (18 saves in his last 21 opportunities) hadn't done such a shocking imitation of his big brother (Todd). And in case you hadn't noticed, their bullpen MVP is Joe Nathan, against whom right-handed hitters are batting a ridiculous .139. Like their whole team, this bullpen is better than the sum of its parts.
What players/scouts say: "I like them better than the Astros, to be honest. When you get to the playoffs, you need a lot of arms to get you to the end, and they've got the depth." ... "There are questions about Worrell closing out a playoff game, but it isn't about one guy."
4. Atlanta Braves
If you go by the numbers, the Braves (4.11 bullpen ERA) don't even belong this high. And if John Smoltz isn't himself, they'll go from fourth to eighth. But in the games that matter most, you give extra points to a team with a closer who has that see-ya-tomorrow aura. So if we were sure about Smoltz's health, we would actually rank this bullpen No. 3 -- because when Smoltz is right, he's as good as it gets (0.89 ERA, a 67-to-8 strikeout-walk ratio, a .153 average against him with men on base). The question is, is he OK? He's pitched 3 1/3 innings since Aug. 2, was used twice in 20 days before he went on the disabled list and then, instead of returning from the DL this week, headed to Birmingham for a visit with Dr. James Andrews. So the flags are all red, no matter how amazing the well-traveled Will Cunnane (3 saves, 1.26 ERA) has been in his place this month. Because except for Ray King, who leads all NL left-handers in appearances, there are huge questions about the set-up gang.
What players/scouts say: "Smoltz had better come back 100 percent or Hotlanta could be going home very early. I don't care how great they hit." ... "How Roberto Hernandez pitches can make the difference in the playoffs. He has the ability to dominate hitters, but goes into funks." ... "When we play Atlanta, we always say, 'If we can get into their bullpen before Smoltz gets in the game, we've got a chance.' "
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1610979
By Peter Gammons
Special to ESPN.com
Sept. 8
So the only two bullpens capable of carrying their teams through three postseason series are the Dodgers and Astros. The Eric Gagne-Guillermo Mota combination is the most dominant game (capably set up by Paul Quantrill and Paul Shuey, all of whom have contributed to a bullpen that took a 406 2/3 IP/407 SO/126 BB record through Sunday), closely followed by Billy Wagner-Octavio Dotel-Brad Lidge.
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/N...0929&content_id=549383&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp
There's something in which the Dodgers can take pride. It starts where the games end, with closer extraordinaire Eric Gagne. He rewrote the record books for his evolving position with a perfect season, the most dominating Dodgers pitcher since Sandy Koufax and the most effective weapon in the game this side of Barry Bonds.
Along with Gagne, the entire Dodgers bullpen was so good it allowed Tracy to formulate a game strategy around it. Guillermo Mota's breakout season will put him at the top of other teams' shopping lists and the Dodgers will be hard-pressed to resist the temptation to deal him. Paul Quantrill was an ironman set-up reliever for Gagne, while Paul Shuey fought through hip problems to be a bridge to the later innings. Tom Martin, unemployed at the start of spring training, got a tryout on the recommendation of his buddy Shuey and wound up breaking the franchise record for appearances by a left-hander.
Re: .
i dont mean to rain on your parade but
Eckstien is average
Kennedy is average
Salmon is OLD
and who on your pitching staff stands out???
i know Percival is great and Donnely had 1 great year and Frankie Rodriguez has the "potential" to be great. but aside from them and Bartolo Colon, what other pitchers stand out??? the only standout pitcher is Colon right??? and i would consider him an underachiever his whole career.
I mean they will or at least SHOULD definatley be alote better than last year. i would even go so far as to say that they SHOULD be better than their championship season a couple back.
i dont mean to rain on your parade but
Eckstien is average
Kennedy is average
Salmon is OLD
and who on your pitching staff stands out???
i know Percival is great and Donnely had 1 great year and Frankie Rodriguez has the "potential" to be great. but aside from them and Bartolo Colon, what other pitchers stand out??? the only standout pitcher is Colon right??? and i would consider him an underachiever his whole career.
I mean they will or at least SHOULD definatley be alote better than last year. i would even go so far as to say that they SHOULD be better than their championship season a couple back.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/pitching?team=los&season=2003&split=128&seasonType=2
Dodgers Bullpen Stats: ERA (2.46), K's (469), H (348), ER (129), WHIP (1.05), IP (472.2), K's/9INN (8.93)
Dodgers Individual
1. E. Gagne: ERA (1.20), K's (137), H (37), ER (11), WHIP (.69), K's/9INN (14.98)
2. P. Quantrill: ERA (1.48), K's (44), H (61), ER (15), WHIP (.98), K's/9INN (5.12)
3. G. Mota: ERA (1.97), K's (99), H (78), ER (23), WHIP (.99), K's/9INN (8.49)
4. T. Martin: ERA (3.53), K's (51), H (36), ER (20), WHIP (1.18), K's/9INN (9.00)
5. P. Shuey: ERA (3.00), K's (60), H (50), ER (23), WHIP (1.20), K's/9INN (7.83)
6. W. Alvarez: ERA (1.48), K's (26), H (15), ER (4), WHIP (.82), K's/9INN (9.62)
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/pitching?team=ana&season=2003&split=128&seasonType=2
Angels Bullpen Stats: ERA (3.13), K's (433), H (440), ER (175), WHIP (1.23), IP (503.1), K's/9INN (7.74)
Angels Individual:
1. B. Donnelly: ERA (1.58), K's (80), H (55), ER (13), WHIP (1.07), K's/9INN (9.61)
2. S. Shields: ERA (1.68), K's (56), H (56), ER (13), WHIP (1.16), K's/9INN (7.23)
3. F. Rodriguez: ERA (3.03), K's (95), H (50), ER (29), WHIP (.99), K's/9INN (9.94)
4. B. Weber: ERA (2.69), K's (46), H (84), ER (24), WHIP (1.32), K's/9INN (5.15)
5. T. Percival: ERA (3.47), K's (48), H (33), ER (19), WHIP (1.14), K's/9INN (8.76)
6. S. Schoeneweis: ERA (3.96), K's (29), H (37), ER (17), WHIP (1.22), K's/9INN (6.75)
Dodgers Bullpen Stats: ERA (2.46), K's (469), H (348), ER (129), WHIP (1.05), IP (472.2), K's/9INN (8.93)
Dodgers Individual
1. E. Gagne: ERA (1.20), K's (137), H (37), ER (11), WHIP (.69), K's/9INN (14.98)
2. P. Quantrill: ERA (1.48), K's (44), H (61), ER (15), WHIP (.98), K's/9INN (5.12)
3. G. Mota: ERA (1.97), K's (99), H (78), ER (23), WHIP (.99), K's/9INN (8.49)
4. T. Martin: ERA (3.53), K's (51), H (36), ER (20), WHIP (1.18), K's/9INN (9.00)
5. P. Shuey: ERA (3.00), K's (60), H (50), ER (23), WHIP (1.20), K's/9INN (7.83)
6. W. Alvarez: ERA (1.48), K's (26), H (15), ER (4), WHIP (.82), K's/9INN (9.62)
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/pitching?team=ana&season=2003&split=128&seasonType=2
Angels Bullpen Stats: ERA (3.13), K's (433), H (440), ER (175), WHIP (1.23), IP (503.1), K's/9INN (7.74)
Angels Individual:
1. B. Donnelly: ERA (1.58), K's (80), H (55), ER (13), WHIP (1.07), K's/9INN (9.61)
2. S. Shields: ERA (1.68), K's (56), H (56), ER (13), WHIP (1.16), K's/9INN (7.23)
3. F. Rodriguez: ERA (3.03), K's (95), H (50), ER (29), WHIP (.99), K's/9INN (9.94)
4. B. Weber: ERA (2.69), K's (46), H (84), ER (24), WHIP (1.32), K's/9INN (5.15)
5. T. Percival: ERA (3.47), K's (48), H (33), ER (19), WHIP (1.14), K's/9INN (8.76)
6. S. Schoeneweis: ERA (3.96), K's (29), H (37), ER (17), WHIP (1.22), K's/9INN (6.75)
bad news for Angels
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/040107turnbow.html
Turnbow Tests Postive For Steroids
By Bill Shaikin
January 7, 2003
ANAHEIM--Angels righthander Derrick Turnbow became the first major league player publicly identified as testing positive for a banned steroid, a result expected to have no impact of his major league career.
The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency cited Turnbow as testing positive for one of two substances classified as steroids and prohibited under international baseball rules but not the rules of Major League Baseball. He acknowledged taking an over-the-counter nutritional supplement containing one of those substances, known in gyms as "19-nor."
"I didn't know that what I was taking was going to make me fail a drug test, period," Turnbow told the Los Angeles Times.
Turnbow tested positive in October during tryouts for USA Baseball's Olympic qualifying team. He thus was not selected for the team.
He did not appeal the test results and accepted his two-year ban from international competition, U.S. Anti-Doping Agency spokesman Rich Wanninger said. The ban is virtually irrelevant, since the U.S. did not qualify for this year's Olympic Games.
The USADA cited Turnbow for using a chemical derivative related to androstenedione, the substance popularized by slugger Mark McGwire in 1998, when he broke baseball's hallowed home-run record. Gene Orza, associate general counsel of the players' union, said andro is a legal supplement in the U.S.
"Derrick Turnbow did not test positive for a steroid," Orza said. "He tested positive for what the IOC (International Olympic Committee) and others regard as a steroid, but the U.S. government does not."
Said Turnbow: "What happened is bad publicity. But it had nothing to do with Major League Baseball. I stepped across a line and volunteered for USA Baseball. I never would have failed a drug test if I hadn't volunteered for USA Baseball."
Minor leaguers have been subject to drug testing for years, and "andro" is banned. Turnbow pitched in the minor leagues in 2001 and 2002, but he was not subject to testing since the Angels have included Turnbow on their 40-man roster since they acquired him in the major league phase of the Rule 5 draft from the Philadelphia Phillies in 2000.
Angels general manager Bill Stoneman said he was told the case would be administered under the new drug-testing program agreed to between the union and major league owners, under which Orza indicated the substance for which Turnbow tested positive is not forbidden.
Turnbow, 25, dazzled the Angels last September, returning from the minors and throwing as hard as 98 mph. He pitched 13 innings, giving up no runs or walks and striking out 12. He is out of options and favored to win a spot in the Angels bullpen next spring.
"He'll be there when we open spring training," Stoneman said. "Unless I hear differently, he's going to make our club or not make our club based on his ability to pitch."
Stoneman said the Angels would nonetheless intensify efforts to persuade players not to use products containing andro.
"If it was bought over-the-counter, I'm assuming it's legal," Stoneman said. "Would I use it if I were playing? I don't think so. There are other ways to get strong."
Copyright 2004 Baseball America. All rights reserved.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/040107turnbow.html
Turnbow Tests Postive For Steroids
By Bill Shaikin
January 7, 2003
ANAHEIM--Angels righthander Derrick Turnbow became the first major league player publicly identified as testing positive for a banned steroid, a result expected to have no impact of his major league career.
The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency cited Turnbow as testing positive for one of two substances classified as steroids and prohibited under international baseball rules but not the rules of Major League Baseball. He acknowledged taking an over-the-counter nutritional supplement containing one of those substances, known in gyms as "19-nor."
"I didn't know that what I was taking was going to make me fail a drug test, period," Turnbow told the Los Angeles Times.
Turnbow tested positive in October during tryouts for USA Baseball's Olympic qualifying team. He thus was not selected for the team.
He did not appeal the test results and accepted his two-year ban from international competition, U.S. Anti-Doping Agency spokesman Rich Wanninger said. The ban is virtually irrelevant, since the U.S. did not qualify for this year's Olympic Games.
The USADA cited Turnbow for using a chemical derivative related to androstenedione, the substance popularized by slugger Mark McGwire in 1998, when he broke baseball's hallowed home-run record. Gene Orza, associate general counsel of the players' union, said andro is a legal supplement in the U.S.
"Derrick Turnbow did not test positive for a steroid," Orza said. "He tested positive for what the IOC (International Olympic Committee) and others regard as a steroid, but the U.S. government does not."
Said Turnbow: "What happened is bad publicity. But it had nothing to do with Major League Baseball. I stepped across a line and volunteered for USA Baseball. I never would have failed a drug test if I hadn't volunteered for USA Baseball."
Minor leaguers have been subject to drug testing for years, and "andro" is banned. Turnbow pitched in the minor leagues in 2001 and 2002, but he was not subject to testing since the Angels have included Turnbow on their 40-man roster since they acquired him in the major league phase of the Rule 5 draft from the Philadelphia Phillies in 2000.
Angels general manager Bill Stoneman said he was told the case would be administered under the new drug-testing program agreed to between the union and major league owners, under which Orza indicated the substance for which Turnbow tested positive is not forbidden.
Turnbow, 25, dazzled the Angels last September, returning from the minors and throwing as hard as 98 mph. He pitched 13 innings, giving up no runs or walks and striking out 12. He is out of options and favored to win a spot in the Angels bullpen next spring.
"He'll be there when we open spring training," Stoneman said. "Unless I hear differently, he's going to make our club or not make our club based on his ability to pitch."
Stoneman said the Angels would nonetheless intensify efforts to persuade players not to use products containing andro.
"If it was bought over-the-counter, I'm assuming it's legal," Stoneman said. "Would I use it if I were playing? I don't think so. There are other ways to get strong."
Copyright 2004 Baseball America. All rights reserved.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.