Wheres the FUNK ?? whats changed about bay rap..

[MOESES SOULRIGHT THE 2nd]

that's the problem with a lotta white boy rappers shea
cus most of em didn't come up with parents like yours and mine
so let me hear some country influences in your shit, let me hear some zepplin influences in your shit
that's what makes this rap shit, our upbringing
and i'm not saying you're not hood if you parents bumped different shit, cus i know some cats in the hood whos moms was bumpin Johnny Mathis ya know
music is grandfathers and sons ya dig

 

[SSProductionz]

that's the problem with a lotta white boy rappers shea
cus most of em didn't come up with parents like yours and mine

WTF? are you saying everyone else posting on this subject are white rappers?
Where did that statement come from? This was never about white boys,
I aint even white, im just wondering where that came from..............

 

[Cody]

Y'all know any good Funk websites?

 

[MOESES SOULRIGHT THE 2nd]

oh my god
first i'm not making it a white and black thing, i'm saying the music you grew up to influences your music

i don't care whre you from, white black, hood suburban

im saying let your influences dictate what you do
us who love that funk shit, cant be mad at these kids who dont

by the way, i'm the whitest person rapper in the world, literally

young moe
the bays best black rapper

 

[HERESY]

My opinion pt 1.

I'm gonna drop some shit on you so take it how you want. Several factors are involved in production and many factors should be considered when you ask about the old bay sound. For one you don't have a lot of PRODUCERS in the bay area. You have BEAT MAKERS (composers) but you don't have A lot of REAL producers. A REAL producer can produce a track and NEVER touch a keyboard. A real producer knows how to direct the song, performance, arrangement and sequence. He or she can tell the drummer what to play, tell the bassist what to play, tell the guitarist to tune to E and tell the vocalist what pitch to be in. THATS production and on a lot of old school funk stuff thats actually what went on. Sadiq, Quincy, Babyface, Clinton these are producers in the O.G. sense. They come with CONCEPTS for songs and map it out.


Fast forward to today. Now producer can be used for any individual who has created a beat on an mpc or fruityloops. As long as he made the beat he is producer (but he should be COMPOSER).


Times have changed and so has the terminology, equipment and sound. Where does that leave the rapper and the person who created the music? Well if you really look at it how many rappers actually KNOW how to get in contact with MUSICIANS? Not many. Is it hard? NOPE! Is it expensive? Depends on what you call expensive. A lot of musicians belong to the union and they can't charge certain rates.


Has it ever occurred to you that some of the people who CAN play actually DON'T want to play because some of the rappers are weak?


A lot of these rappers (not all) want a specific type of sound and too be honest funk is not the type of sound they want. Beats that contain tempo changes are not what they want. Beats that contain chord progressions are not what they want. Beats that have a unique arrangement/sequence and breakdowns are not what they want. They want a very REPETATIVE sound that does NOT have a form of TENSION and RELEASE. Funk has that. Listen to a p-funk or brothers johnson slap and you'll see.


A lot of blame should be placed on the rappers at this point. A lot of them want beats for free and people who can play (especially when they have mouthes to feed) need to be compensated. If the rappers had an understanding of MUSIC (theory) and raised the standards in what THEY rap over you might actually hear a return of funk and groove based rap music. Until that happens you have to settle for the mpc beats and the fantom and triton beats. Because a song was created on a triton does that make it weak? No. Does that mean it can't sound "live"? No. You can make a beat on the keyboard and it can sound like a "KEYBOARD" beat. Meaning the sounds are NOT "realistic".


Heres an example:

http://s18.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0V9JPVRCGAZG736B1RYGQH2W3L


You can also make a beat on the keyboard and make it sound realistic.


Heres an example:


http://s18.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0YIJUONJOXBPH02O8KH0XMAXKV


If you listen to the second beat I'll tell you exactly whats going on.


I need this bed. Ya'll be cool.



:hgk:

 

[Johnny Rap]

Bay Area Rapfans know where the "Funk" is.
(if you didn't you wouldn't be in here)

 

[Al Boo Boo]

Heres an example:

http://s18.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=...G736B1RYGQH2W3L


You can also make a beat on the keyboard and make it sound realistic.


Heres an example:


http://s18.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=...PH02O8KH0XMAXKV


If you listen to the second beat I'll tell you exactly whats going on.


I need this bed. Ya'll be cool.

that second beat sounds cool mane,I aint feelin the snares tho.I notice how you keep sayin you played it all on a keyboard and used no samples.I know you didnt sample any songs for ya melody in the way sampling is usually used with taking a section from another song but all them keyboard sounds are still considered samples.If you want to be technical with it.Nice beat tho,what keyboard did you use? the guitar sound reminds me of some Khayree shit.

 

[HERESY]

that second beat sounds cool mane

Thankyou.

I aint feelin the snares tho

Thankyou, the snare is actually a snare and tambourine playing at the same time. As I said in the song (when I was explaining everything) I was actually *trying* to get that type of snare sound. It sounds crunchy and squashed but it doesn't "pump".

I notice how you keep sayin you played it all on a keyboard and used no samples.I know you didnt sample any songs for ya melody in the way sampling is usually used with taking a section from another song but all them keyboard sounds are still considered samples

Yes sounds in keyboards are considered "samples". The engineers record sounds tweek them, do what they do and the sounds are then transferred to sound rom. So basically everyone who has ever used a string sound from a keyboard is a sampler because it didn't come from a REAL string ensemble. Everyone who has used a piano is a sampler because the sounds didn't come from a REAL baby grand. With that being said EVERY musician, composer, beat maker etc etc etc is a sampler by those terms.

If you want to be technical with it.

And what about those of us who have the ability to take a sine wave (basically a raw waveform) and make it sound like an organ? Is that sampling? I can lift a riff from dr.dre, get caught and pay the price. I can also use a keyboard, make my own riff and pay no royalties to his publishing company or whoever holds the license to the material.

Nice beat tho

Once again I appreciate your compliments. I also appreciate your concern for bay rap music, bay legends and those who have helped mold the bay sound. Thats tight shit and shows me that you understand the NEED for bay artist to get back to making "MUSIC" and not just "BEATS".

what keyboard did you use?

I never tell my sources bro. But it was a bitch trying to get the picking down and knowing which keys to mute.

the guitar sound reminds me of some Khayree shit.

I'm influenced by the man especially when it comes to arranging the song and doing changeups in the music/beat. After meeting him and talking to him I have an even greater appreciation for him as a person and what he's contributed to music overall.


I'm out and once again thanks for the compliments pimpin.



:hgk:

 

[Al Boo Boo]

I'm gonna drop some shit on you so take it how you want. Several factors are involved in production and many factors should be considered when you ask about the old bay sound. For one you don't have a lot of PRODUCERS in the bay area. You have BEAT MAKERS (composers) but you don't have A lot of REAL producers. A REAL producer can produce a track and NEVER touch a keyboard. A real producer knows how to direct the song, performance, arrangement and sequence. He or she can tell the drummer what to play, tell the bassist what to play, tell the guitarist to tune to E and tell the vocalist what pitch to be in. THATS production and on a lot of old school funk stuff thats actually what went on. Sadiq, Quincy, Babyface, Clinton these are producers in the O.G. sense. They come with CONCEPTS for songs and map it out.


Fast forward to today. Now producer can be used for any individual who has created a beat on an mpc or fruityloops. As long as he made the beat he is producer (but he should be COMPOSER).


Times have changed and so has the terminology, equipment and sound. Where does that leave the rapper and the person who created the music? Well if you really look at it how many rappers actually KNOW how to get in contact with MUSICIANS? Not many. Is it hard? NOPE! Is it expensive? Depends on what you call expensive. A lot of musicians belong to the union and they can't charge certain rates.


Has it ever occurred to you that some of the people who CAN play actually DON'T want to play because some of the rappers are weak?


A lot of these rappers (not all) want a specific type of sound and too be honest funk is not the type of sound they want. Beats that contain tempo changes are not what they want. Beats that contain chord progressions are not what they want. Beats that have a unique arrangement/sequence and breakdowns are not what they want. They want a very REPETATIVE sound that does NOT have a form of TENSION and RELEASE. Funk has that. Listen to a p-funk or brothers johnson slap and you'll see.



:hgk:

I didnt read this at first,I just peeped the beats but you spoke on some real talk mane.Esp the part about "beat making" and "producing".The general public doesnt know the difference and end up putting the two together when really there is a difference,you pretty much explained that.I also feel ya on the fact rappers want something repetitive to spit over,MOST mc's that is and this is a reason Outkasts' music is a big influence on me and my music.They make Hip-Hop music but still add that "musick" touch to it.Mainly thanks to Organized Noize but Dre is mainly an influence for me when it comes to beats.When I try and put a "beat" up for opinions in some production forums I'll usually get,"needs more change-ups" or stuff like that when really I'm tryin to make something to spit over.Not sayin you cant spit over something with change-ups but those arent really favored when you need beats to flow or freestyle over.

A BIG missing factor in Bay rap is really GOOD PRODUCTION.Lately I've been impressed with several tracks that have come out because the beats sound pretty clean.I'm talking about some of Jaclas beats,Keak has been having some good shit for a while becuz that "super hyphy" is pretty clean sounding.We need some really good studio engineers out her because that helps ALOT.If you look at LA's production over the years,probably part of the reason they got more excepted is because they had great engineers and production like Dre.Mastering is key to making your beats have that extra "edge" but folks out here just churn out beats,spit over em and thats it.We can keep our sound or what ever but why not bring out the best of it,no matter how simple it may sound.I hope Digital Underground starts fuckin with production for cats out here cuz they are the shit.Shock G is tight

I need to up my mastering skills alot but I dont know where to start.Any tips would be cool mane

 

[SicFlow]

Yea, bring back the funk. Live base is what Pac used alot and that shit is sic. I want to hear more of that E-40 in a major way type shit.

I do agree, the old bay had more funk than the new bay.

 

[Tatem1]

That Funk

You can always count on Ya Boy Tatem 1 to lace you up wit some of that FUNK cause thats what I do. Whipp it up, Compose It, Arrange It, Play It, Produce It, Make It into a Beat, Whateva you want to call it. It will end up being some Funk.

Oh by the way, Nice Thread.................

Tatem1GotBeats AOL Instant Message

http://www.myspace.com/tatem1

 

[Silas]

... you used to be able to DANCE to rap music

 

[Deuce]

Ayo fucc these virgins talkin about ''Its the future move on'' I'm one of those dudes that felt time shoulda stood still in terms of bay area mob funk, all this ''Mac Dr3 get st00pid g0 dumb thiZzZzZ'' shit is gay as FUCC to me and it makes y'all look like succers to niggas outside the region like me, fuccin cartoon animated niggas and shit, not like bacc in 94-98 when it was rider ass music, now all these faggit mexicans and craccers tryna rap and saturating the market, shits corny.

 

[Turf Hitta]

Ayo fucc these virgins talkin about ''Its the future move on'' I'm one of those dudes that felt time shoulda stood still in terms of bay area mob funk, all this ''Mac Dr3 get st00pid g0 dumb thiZzZzZ'' shit is gay as FUCC to me and it makes y'all look like succers to niggas outside the region like me, fuccin cartoon animated niggas and shit, not like bacc in 94-98 when it was rider ass music, now all these faggit mexicans and craccers tryna rap and saturating the market, shits corny.

I dont feel you on the Mac Dre shit, but other than that I cosign that shit to the full.

 

[Deuce]

ha, son be real with yourself, how old are you yo ? if you made 21 like I did or touchin on youre 20's, you grown...and youre aware that while the ''mac dre'' thizz dance is creative and innovative and stomach churning comedy to look at, its seen as more of a ''party piece'' than a actual stern ass representative of bay G shit, like the c-walk is in L.A. you feel me...

Plus it looks like a bootleg harlem shake but we save that for another time...

Bacc then you could ask a nigga about bay music and it's content and he'd say ''oh the bay ? thats strap and dope sales all day with it'' but now ? they got this half ass sorry ass ''crunk hyphy'' shit and this thizzelle dance has to go...

So Im left with my 1993-98 collection of bay shit preyin for a better day basically.

 

[Turf Hitta]

ha, son be real with yourself, how old are you yo ? if you made 21 like I did or touchin on youre 20's, you grown...and youre aware that while the ''mac dre'' thizz dance is creative and innovative and stomach churning comedy to look at, its seen as more of a ''party piece'' than a actual stern ass representative of bay G shit, like the c-walk is in L.A. you feel me...

Plus it looks like a bootleg harlem shake but we save that for another time...

Bacc then you could ask a nigga about bay music and it's content and he'd say ''oh the bay ? thats strap and dope sales all day with it'' but now ? they got this half ass sorry ass ''crunk hyphy'' shit and this thizzelle dance has to go...

So Im left with my 1993-98 collection of bay shit preyin for a better day basically.

Im 23 cuzzin and I know my history. I love the mob shit as much as the next man, but everybody aint about all that gangbangin and mob shit. Mac Dre music aint never really been too mobbed out, it just aint him. He did somethin different and always had a cool ass way wit words. You can love him or hate him, but dont base your bad feelings for him cause he wasnt on that mob music when it really aint who he was. I rather listen to Mac Dre be a clown instead of playin the part of somebody that he aint.

Far as the thizz dance lookin like the harlem shake, i think it looks more like the humpty dance. haha.

And the hyphy shit is tight too. Shit just changes. you cant spend a gang of time and energy bein mad cause no matter what 1996 aint comin back. Just gotta either respect the new shit for what it is and not compare it to the old shit cause its really apples n oranges, or do what you doin and stick to the 90's shit. I aint mad at nothin. im glad the new cats is doin somethin different. back in the mid 90's the shit was tight as fuck cause it wasnt some shit that sounded like it was 10 years old, it was a new sound for rap back then.

 

[Deuce]

Im 23 cuzzin and I know my history. I love the mob shit as much as the next man, but everybody aint about all that gangbangin and mob shit. Mac Dre music aint never really been too mobbed out, it just aint him. He did somethin different and always had a cool ass way wit words. You can love him or hate him, but dont base your bad feelings for him cause he wasnt on that mob music when it really aint who he was. I rather listen to Mac Dre be a clown instead of playin the part of somebody that he aint.

Far as the thizz dance lookin like the harlem shake, i think it looks more like the humpty dance. haha.

And the hyphy shit is tight too. Shit just changes. you cant spend a gang of time and energy bein mad cause no matter what 1996 aint comin back. Just gotta either respect the new shit for what it is and not compare it to the old shit cause its really apples n oranges, or do what you doin and stick to the 90's shit. I aint mad at nothin. im glad the new cats is doin somethin different. back in the mid 90's the shit was tight as fuck cause it wasnt some shit that sounded like it was 10 years old, it was a new sound for rap back then.

Yeah mac dre was more ''pimp'' but that shit was ALWAYS corny to me, only dude that could pull that off was Mac mall bacc in 1994, the rest of these dudes is wacc to me, mac dre included. I guess you think mac dre had a ''cool way with words'' the same way I think Jayo Felony, Mitchy slicc and Tray Deee do so all is one, cant really argue.


Yeah Im feelin' what you said about bygones being bygones, but this hyphy shit is fag shit to me, every fuccin' teenage girl is on that shit, and when I see these corny ass niggas typin' about how ''HyPhIE'' the bay is, it just makes me not want to listen to bay music or checc for it.

Of course the other thing is the lacc of talent, all these mexicans and white kids puttin out music drenching the raccs with bullshit is forcing all the vets to be puttin out like 4 useless albums a year with no effort, whereas in the 90's it was one album a year and obviously longetivity was there otherwise I wouldnt be playing it today whereas with the trash thats out now, I wont even be playing it next week nevermind next year, but yeah though 90's bay rap it is.

But the on some real shit the only niggas holdin' it down for the bay like that is apartment 3 and dj mark 7, thats some gangsta'd out music for real, the rest of these niggas tryna be like this nigga or that nigga or the other nigga and it shows in the music, which is corny music

 

[Silas]

"HELL YEAH!!THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN' BOUT SMIGG!!!"


oh ya
.... this is NOT smigg dirtee

 

[Turf Hitta]

Yeah mac dre was more ''pimp'' but that shit was ALWAYS corny to me, only dude that could pull that off was Mac mall bacc in 1994, the rest of these dudes is wacc to me, mac dre included. I guess you think mac dre had a ''cool way with words'' the same way I think Jayo Felony, Mitchy slicc and Tray Deee do so all is one, cant really argue.


Yeah Im feelin' what you said about bygones being bygones, but this hyphy shit is fag shit to me, every fuccin' teenage girl is on that shit, and when I see these corny ass niggas typin' about how ''HyPhIE'' the bay is, it just makes me not want to listen to bay music or checc for it.

Of course the other thing is the lacc of talent, all these mexicans and white kids puttin out music drenching the raccs with bullshit is forcing all the vets to be puttin out like 4 useless albums a year with no effort, whereas in the 90's it was one album a year and obviously longetivity was there otherwise I wouldnt be playing it today whereas with the trash thats out now, I wont even be playing it next week nevermind next year, but yeah though 90's bay rap it is.

But the on some real shit the only niggas holdin' it down for the bay like that is apartment 3 and dj mark 7, thats some gangsta'd out music for real, the rest of these niggas tryna be like this nigga or that nigga or the other nigga and it shows in the music, which is corny music

Yeah, Mac Dre did always have his pimp shit here and there but he was always more of a clown to me. He always said some funny ass shit. He wasnt no rider but everything aint just only for the riders. Personally I wanna hear more than just rider music cause theres more to me than just that aspect of life. Thats why Im more into funk (real funk), soul, r&b and shit like that yadadimean, grown man shit.

Hyphy shit, like I said love it or hate it but thats only 1 particular style of rap in the bay. You cant tell me Messy Marv aint still makin that real grtty turf music. I dont think nobody is doin it better than Mess right now. If you dont believe me go pick up Dufferent Slanguages. Most of that record got a realmid 90's mob music feel to it.

And on the lack of talent, there is talent out here, but I feel you on all that latin and white rap shit. Like my dude said, KEEP RAP BLACK! Real Talk though.

 

[Mr. Illmannered]

Right on Deuce, thanks for the kind words. If you like that type of shit, check out the new one we just did "Known Associates".