What makes a song "rap" as opposed to "hip hop?"

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Jun 27, 2005
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#1
I'm curious to see your takes on this. Personally I dont think there is a difference, and the different labels are just semantics. If you think I'm wrong, tell me why.

A lot of people will say some shit like hip hop is about the elements. I say thats bullshit cause in the beginning hip hop (rap) was not about any "elements," it was just a dude sayin rhymes over a break beat. The subject matter was not about mc'ing, dj'ing, breakin, and graffitti necesarrily.
 

Defy

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Jan 23, 2006
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Rich City
#2
every rap song is hip hop, because rap is a part of hip hop...but there are songs that can be hip hop and not rap, for example a turntablism would be a hip hop song even with no rapping on it
 
Jun 27, 2005
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#3
^^^ I agree with that. the reason I'm asking the question though, is because I always hear people say shit like "oh thats rap, thats not hip hop." or "Hes a rapper not an emcee." I'm curious to see why the people who say these things say them.
 

DubbC415

Mickey Fallon
Sep 10, 2002
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#4
i mean, this isnt what I personally think, but when people that say what u said, xxtra, theyre usually referring to so-called "backpack" rappers...and i dont really like that term, but thats what is established..like del is more of an "emcee" than just a rapper...people just like to use rapper to pigeonhole gangsta rap, or just more hardcore rap, rather than your black moon, de la soul, etc. shit. its bull shit and i find that most people that say that listen to "backpack" hip hop rather than "gangsta" or "hardcore" rap

they want to be able to separate the music so they can feel that their favorite rappers are more important, and are "real" "emcees"
 

Defy

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Jan 23, 2006
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#5
^^I used to think that about 10 years ago....untill I realized these people that I'm calling "Emcee's" are saying the same thing in different way as these "rappers"....thats where the "real" hip hop shit comes into play....where "real" hip hop is who you choose it to be and the "fake shit" are the artists making money on the radio who you don't like....its just separation and bullshit
 

DubbC415

Mickey Fallon
Sep 10, 2002
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#6
yeah, its like 'real' hip hop is always someone who doesnt sell out, like someone was telling me atmosphere was real hip hop...and i was like how is that real? theyre just making music...thats MUSIC...that RAP MUSIC...hip hop is something different, and theres something that *ahem* certain artists dont have that make it hip hop...*cough* a struggle *cough*
 
Jun 27, 2005
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#7
Good answers. Somebody should post this on another board like sohh or allhiphop and see how different the answers and reactions will be. I would do it myself but fuck sohh and allhiphop, lol.
 

DubbC415

Mickey Fallon
Sep 10, 2002
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Tomato Alley
#8
i remember this guy i used to work with was ALWAYS clowning on the guys i listened to back when i was like 16...i basically listened to nothing but lynch, x-raided, and mac dre. and he was saying how they werent real rappers, but the guys he listened to were (del, the rest of hiero, living legends, aesop rock, etc.) and i'd let him blab on and on...and i was just like "yeah, but my favorite rappers would SMOKE ur favorite rappers...literally"...and he just didnt have anything else to say...


my point being, those types of arguments mean nothing and are completely pointless
 
Jun 2, 2002
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#9
What makes a song "rap" as opposed to "hip hop?"

Absolutely nothing. But if you want to be correct, Defy is right, but then again you could also classify that as Instrumental.

Rap is a form of music which is a part of hip hop.

Hip hop is everything.

The style in rap music, the way rappers deliver their lyrics, the way they influence others just by their style, that's hip hop.

The way an emcee moves his arms and hands when he freestyles or performs, that's hip hop.

The way you act or talk is hip hop.

There is no such thing as real hip hop or fake hip hop, it's a culture, so obviously it's real.

That being the case, some topics in rap music do get exploited but that doesn't mean it's fake.

A rap song about breaking, graffiti, with turntablism and beatboxing and what not is still RAP. It's a rap song reflecting elements of the culture, that's all.

You can say it makes it more hip hop than a song about violence but really, it doesn't. It's still rap music, it's just a different style.

What it boils down to with rap music is what YOU want to hear and HOW you want to hear it. And whether or not you choose to follow against or with or both. Whether you are open-minded or naive.

"Backpacker" hip hop refers to a particular brand of underground Hip-Hop which is so-named because of its backpack-sporting listeners. Backpackers are stereotypically educated, liberal elitists who desire hip hop to be free of all materialism that they claim mainstream rap propagates. They prefer hip hop that they claim is more intelligent and complex, which is often underground.

I did not write the above in bold. However it's a perfect explanation of the infamous backpacker coined term which now is even used as an insult.

I personally can listen to Big L, then listen to Mac Dre, then listen to PUTS, then Eazy E, then DL Incognito, then E-40, then Nas, then Too Short, then Immortal Technique.

The bottom line is doesn't matter what style I listen to or whether it's conscious or not or underground or mainstream. Not one of the artists or groups above is more hip hop than the other, what matters is it's all a part of hip hop regardless, as a whole.

Some people don't accept this they consider it harmful to the culture of hip hop, the breakdown of hip hop, the demise of hip hop. They also believe that stations like MTV and BET support this commercial materialistic breakdown. So they bash it, and commercial radio, and everything that isn't real to hip hop in their minds.

That's just ignorance.

And to be honest, sometimes I fall into it myself with certain music, but its just music, it has nothing to do wit the state of hip hop, hip hop will always have its roots intact.

But to answer your question, absolutely nothing makes a song rap as opposed to hip hop, any song with an emcee rapping on it is a form of rap music, it really boils down to what that rapper is speaking on and how it reflects on the listener and his/her beliefs. Because that's where their opinion will stem from which in return will add to all this madness of what's real and what's not.

Just enjoy the culture, listen to what you LIKE, respect what you don't, and stay humble.
 

Ry

Sicc OG
Apr 25, 2002
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#11
  • Ry

    Ry

Hip Hop is the culture, MCing, Djing, Graffiti and B-Boying.

Rapping is just one portion of hip hop culture.
 

Ry

Sicc OG
Apr 25, 2002
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#12
  • Ry

    Ry

...and that backpacker term is stupid to me, just because someone is underground and is good lyrically people classify them as a back packer. To me backpacker is more of a type of fan than a rapper.
 

Defy

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Jan 23, 2006
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#13
Mr. Samos said:
What makes a song "rap" as opposed to "hip hop?"

Absolutely nothing. But if you want to be correct, Defy is right, but then again you could also classify that as Instrumental.
I agreed with everything you said (especially saying Defy is right) but you can't classify all turntablism as an instrumental....for example the avalanches frontier psychiatrist is not an instrumental, there are far too many vocals....but the vocals are scratched in from vinyl.....but yeah, you basically nailed it besides that
 

Defy

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Jan 23, 2006
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#17
^^co-sign...thats bullshit, mc's and rappers are the same thing.....I could see people argueing about a lyricist being different tho