***The Official No War On Iraq Post***
- Thread starter MaddDogg
- Start date
lolz
if u say so... it's all gravitational
anyways, to anyone who says "i support war... saddam needs to go" u really think it's worth spending billions upon billions upon billions of our tax dollars, killing innocent people, raising the terrorist threat level in our homeland, and the possibly plunging our country more or less into economic turmoil... just so u can get ure hands on one person?? yanno, there are more economically efficient and more simple ways to get your hands on saddam... ways that DON'T involve the use of all our military resources..... use your imagination... i got one! how about sending a few hundred troops to his tilt late night and haul him and his sons off at gun point? :devious:
funniest of all, iraq hasn't attacked any country in over 12 years.... and it hasn't attacked the country that's about to destroy it
if u say so... it's all gravitational
anyways, to anyone who says "i support war... saddam needs to go" u really think it's worth spending billions upon billions upon billions of our tax dollars, killing innocent people, raising the terrorist threat level in our homeland, and the possibly plunging our country more or less into economic turmoil... just so u can get ure hands on one person?? yanno, there are more economically efficient and more simple ways to get your hands on saddam... ways that DON'T involve the use of all our military resources..... use your imagination... i got one! how about sending a few hundred troops to his tilt late night and haul him and his sons off at gun point? :devious:
funniest of all, iraq hasn't attacked any country in over 12 years.... and it hasn't attacked the country that's about to destroy it
Who Really Armed Iraq...SF Chronicle...
Who armed Iraq?
Paul Rockwell
Sunday, March 2, 2003
©2003 San Francisco Chronicle | Feedback
URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/03/02/IN123519.DTL
Before World War I, arms manufacturers were commonly called "merchants of death." As clouds of war gathered over Europe, the peace movement worked in vain to stop armament companies from producing explosives, torpedoes, mustard gas, machine guns, dreadnoughts, subs, destroyers, U-boats, howitzers, bombers and zeppelins.
Two world wars and countless regional conflicts have since ravaged the globe. The merchants of death are still in business.
Iraq's Weapons Declaration underscores a tragic irony: The United States, the world's leading arms supplier, is taking the world to war to stop arms proliferation in the very country to which it shipped chemicals, biological seed stock and weapons for more than 10 years.
According to the December declaration, treated with much derision from the Bush administration, U.S. and Western companies played a key role in building Hussein's war machine. The 1,200-page document contains a list of Western corporations and countries -- as well as individuals -- that exported chemical and biological materials to Iraq in the past two decades.
Embarrassed, no doubt, by revelations of their own complicity in Mideast arms proliferation, the U.S.-led Security Council censored the entire dossier, deleting more than 100 names of companies and groups that profited from Iraq's crimes and aggression. The censorship came too late, however. The long list -- including names of large U.S. corporations -- Dupont, Hewlett-Packard, and Honeywell -- was leaked to a German daily, Die Tageszeitung. Despite the Security Council coverup, the truth came out.
biological and nuclear warheads.
Alcolac International, a Maryland company, transported thiodiglycol, a mustard gas precursor, to Iraq. A Tennessee manufacturer contributed large amounts of a chemical used to make sarin, a nerve gas implicated in Gulf War diseases.
Phyllis Bennis, author of "Before and After," notes that "the highest quality seed-stock for anthrax germs (along with those of botulism, E. coli, and a host of other deadly diseases) were shipped to Iraq by U.S. companies, legally, under an official U.S. Department of Commerce license throughout the 1980s." A Senate Banking subcommittee report in 1994 confirmed that shipments of biological germ stock continued well into 1989.
According to Judith Miller in "Germs: Biological Weapons and America's Secret War," Iraq purchased its seed stock -- its "starter germs" -- from "The American Type Culture Collection," a supply company in a Washington, D.C., suburb.
We tend to forget that the Reagan-Bush administration maintained cordial relations with Hussein in the '80s, promoting Iraq's eight-year war against Iran. Twenty-four U.S. firms exported arms and materials to Baghdad. France also sent Hussein 200 AMX medium tanks, Mirage bombers and Gazelle helicopter gunships. As Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard Armitage testified in 1987:
"We cannot stand to see Iraq defeated." The CIA, State Department, the central military command directing Middle East operations, were well aware of Iraq's biological-weapons efforts. Nevertheless, Iraq's applications were seldom denied.
The infamous massacre at Halabja -- the gassing of the Kurds -- took place in March 1988. Six months later, on Sept. 19, a Maryland company sent 11 strains of germs -- four types of anthrax -- to Iraq, including a microbe strain called 11966, developed for germ warfare at Fort Detrick in the 1950s.
The vast, lucrative arms trade in the Middle East created the groundwork for Hussein's aggression in Kuwait. Without high-tech weapons from the West, Iraq's wars against Iran and Kuwait would never have taken place.
The inspection process is spawning a host of questions about U.S. policy. Why aren't U.S. and European scientists, who invented and produced lethal materials for Saddam Hussein, subject to interrogations like their counterparts in Iraq? Are U.S. companies sending their deadly material to other dictators? Why are there no congressional hearings on the U.S. role in arms proliferation? And how many senators (like the voice of Connecticut's arms industry, Sen. Joe Lieberman) are taking contributions from the world's arms dealers?
The United States exports more weapons than all other countries combined, and Hussein is only one of many human rights abusers who purchased the means of terror from the West.
No despot, no monarchy, no medieval insurgency that can be exploited, no regime of terror seems to be off-limits to the sale of arms for profit.
From 1983-88, Siad Barre, the mad dictator of Somalia, received from the United States 155 howitzers, 20mm Vulcan air defense guns, light artillery pieces, mortars, anti-tank rocket launchers, a mass of firearms and ammunition.
Who armed Iraq?
Paul Rockwell
Sunday, March 2, 2003
©2003 San Francisco Chronicle | Feedback
URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/03/02/IN123519.DTL
Before World War I, arms manufacturers were commonly called "merchants of death." As clouds of war gathered over Europe, the peace movement worked in vain to stop armament companies from producing explosives, torpedoes, mustard gas, machine guns, dreadnoughts, subs, destroyers, U-boats, howitzers, bombers and zeppelins.
Two world wars and countless regional conflicts have since ravaged the globe. The merchants of death are still in business.
Iraq's Weapons Declaration underscores a tragic irony: The United States, the world's leading arms supplier, is taking the world to war to stop arms proliferation in the very country to which it shipped chemicals, biological seed stock and weapons for more than 10 years.
According to the December declaration, treated with much derision from the Bush administration, U.S. and Western companies played a key role in building Hussein's war machine. The 1,200-page document contains a list of Western corporations and countries -- as well as individuals -- that exported chemical and biological materials to Iraq in the past two decades.
Embarrassed, no doubt, by revelations of their own complicity in Mideast arms proliferation, the U.S.-led Security Council censored the entire dossier, deleting more than 100 names of companies and groups that profited from Iraq's crimes and aggression. The censorship came too late, however. The long list -- including names of large U.S. corporations -- Dupont, Hewlett-Packard, and Honeywell -- was leaked to a German daily, Die Tageszeitung. Despite the Security Council coverup, the truth came out.
biological and nuclear warheads.
Alcolac International, a Maryland company, transported thiodiglycol, a mustard gas precursor, to Iraq. A Tennessee manufacturer contributed large amounts of a chemical used to make sarin, a nerve gas implicated in Gulf War diseases.
Phyllis Bennis, author of "Before and After," notes that "the highest quality seed-stock for anthrax germs (along with those of botulism, E. coli, and a host of other deadly diseases) were shipped to Iraq by U.S. companies, legally, under an official U.S. Department of Commerce license throughout the 1980s." A Senate Banking subcommittee report in 1994 confirmed that shipments of biological germ stock continued well into 1989.
According to Judith Miller in "Germs: Biological Weapons and America's Secret War," Iraq purchased its seed stock -- its "starter germs" -- from "The American Type Culture Collection," a supply company in a Washington, D.C., suburb.
We tend to forget that the Reagan-Bush administration maintained cordial relations with Hussein in the '80s, promoting Iraq's eight-year war against Iran. Twenty-four U.S. firms exported arms and materials to Baghdad. France also sent Hussein 200 AMX medium tanks, Mirage bombers and Gazelle helicopter gunships. As Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard Armitage testified in 1987:
"We cannot stand to see Iraq defeated." The CIA, State Department, the central military command directing Middle East operations, were well aware of Iraq's biological-weapons efforts. Nevertheless, Iraq's applications were seldom denied.
The infamous massacre at Halabja -- the gassing of the Kurds -- took place in March 1988. Six months later, on Sept. 19, a Maryland company sent 11 strains of germs -- four types of anthrax -- to Iraq, including a microbe strain called 11966, developed for germ warfare at Fort Detrick in the 1950s.
The vast, lucrative arms trade in the Middle East created the groundwork for Hussein's aggression in Kuwait. Without high-tech weapons from the West, Iraq's wars against Iran and Kuwait would never have taken place.
The inspection process is spawning a host of questions about U.S. policy. Why aren't U.S. and European scientists, who invented and produced lethal materials for Saddam Hussein, subject to interrogations like their counterparts in Iraq? Are U.S. companies sending their deadly material to other dictators? Why are there no congressional hearings on the U.S. role in arms proliferation? And how many senators (like the voice of Connecticut's arms industry, Sen. Joe Lieberman) are taking contributions from the world's arms dealers?
The United States exports more weapons than all other countries combined, and Hussein is only one of many human rights abusers who purchased the means of terror from the West.
No despot, no monarchy, no medieval insurgency that can be exploited, no regime of terror seems to be off-limits to the sale of arms for profit.
From 1983-88, Siad Barre, the mad dictator of Somalia, received from the United States 155 howitzers, 20mm Vulcan air defense guns, light artillery pieces, mortars, anti-tank rocket launchers, a mass of firearms and ammunition.
By 1989, its precious desert water holes demolished, the impoverished country was in open revolt. When Siad Barre fled, he left the country in ruins,
and he left all his U.S. weapons behind -- the very weapons that enabled warrior clans to bring down U.S. Black Hawks and kill 70 U.S. and U.N. humanitarian troops.
On the edge of famine, Somalia today is still awash in U.S. weaponry, as 14- year-old children carry hand-me-down rifles through the streets of Mogadishu.
Notwithstanding pious talk about curbing arms proliferation, arms traffic is expanding under the administration of George W. Bush. The administration recently lifted the embargo on arms sales to contending nuclear powers -- India and Pakistan -- where riots, massacres, religious uprisings and border showdowns take place routinely.
The arms traffic may be very profitable for General Dynamics and Lockheed Martin, but the arms traffic is deadly for developing nations.
Arms militarize the Third World, deplete local resources and -- despite low interest rates -- generate large debts and inflation. Loans for genuine capital investment generate increased productivity, enabling a nation to progress and repay the loan. Military loans and purchases have no such value. They divert resources from civilian production, from the growth economy, and they increase poverty.
Even before Sept. 11, historian Chalmers Johnson warned in "Blowback: Costs and Consequences of American Empire": "Arms sales are a major cause of a developing blowback whose price we have yet to begin to pay."
"Blowback," a term first used by the CIA, refers to the unintended consequences of covert policies. "In a sense, blowback is simply another way of saying that a nation reaps what it sows," Johnson wrote. "But so much of what the managers of the American empire have sown has been kept secret. Although most Americans may be largely ignorant of what was, and still is, being done in their names, all are likely to pay a steep price -- individually and collectively -- for their nation's continued efforts to dominate the global scene."
Is it moral to view social conflicts, hatred, fear, aggression, war and violence as a mere marketplace for high-tech business? And can we continue to treat the mechanisms of terror in terms of supply and demand?
George Orwell's brilliant essay on empire and nationalism applies directly to the mendacity of the Bush administration:
"Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them. There is almost no kind of outrage -- torture, imprisonment without trial, assassination, the bombing of civilians -- which does not change its moral color when it is committed by 'our' side. . . . The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them."
It is time to measure human rights by one yardstick -- to hold the suppliers, not just the purchasers, of death accountable for their handiwork.
Paul Rockwell is an Oakland writer.
got em'.
and he left all his U.S. weapons behind -- the very weapons that enabled warrior clans to bring down U.S. Black Hawks and kill 70 U.S. and U.N. humanitarian troops.
On the edge of famine, Somalia today is still awash in U.S. weaponry, as 14- year-old children carry hand-me-down rifles through the streets of Mogadishu.
Notwithstanding pious talk about curbing arms proliferation, arms traffic is expanding under the administration of George W. Bush. The administration recently lifted the embargo on arms sales to contending nuclear powers -- India and Pakistan -- where riots, massacres, religious uprisings and border showdowns take place routinely.
The arms traffic may be very profitable for General Dynamics and Lockheed Martin, but the arms traffic is deadly for developing nations.
Arms militarize the Third World, deplete local resources and -- despite low interest rates -- generate large debts and inflation. Loans for genuine capital investment generate increased productivity, enabling a nation to progress and repay the loan. Military loans and purchases have no such value. They divert resources from civilian production, from the growth economy, and they increase poverty.
Even before Sept. 11, historian Chalmers Johnson warned in "Blowback: Costs and Consequences of American Empire": "Arms sales are a major cause of a developing blowback whose price we have yet to begin to pay."
"Blowback," a term first used by the CIA, refers to the unintended consequences of covert policies. "In a sense, blowback is simply another way of saying that a nation reaps what it sows," Johnson wrote. "But so much of what the managers of the American empire have sown has been kept secret. Although most Americans may be largely ignorant of what was, and still is, being done in their names, all are likely to pay a steep price -- individually and collectively -- for their nation's continued efforts to dominate the global scene."
Is it moral to view social conflicts, hatred, fear, aggression, war and violence as a mere marketplace for high-tech business? And can we continue to treat the mechanisms of terror in terms of supply and demand?
George Orwell's brilliant essay on empire and nationalism applies directly to the mendacity of the Bush administration:
"Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them. There is almost no kind of outrage -- torture, imprisonment without trial, assassination, the bombing of civilians -- which does not change its moral color when it is committed by 'our' side. . . . The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them."
It is time to measure human rights by one yardstick -- to hold the suppliers, not just the purchasers, of death accountable for their handiwork.
Paul Rockwell is an Oakland writer.
got em'.
All yall watching CNN think yall know whats goin on and it makes me laugh cause yall dont know SHIT. Seems that people believe everything they hear on TV... Yall are like news groupies....
Americas government is just as corrupt as any other regime in the world... America is not in war for the safety of the Iraqi people.... They are after OIL mothafuckas, and the reason North Korea aint gettin fucked with is because they dont have SHIT we need from them.... Illuminati is our Government, and they are taking over the world....
Looks like Saddam runs his country fine to me. He tortures people, but its all for a reason... He dont fuck with innocent people, believe me.... There are no drugs, rapists, and criminals in Iraq because of that shit....
Americas government is just as corrupt as any other regime in the world... America is not in war for the safety of the Iraqi people.... They are after OIL mothafuckas, and the reason North Korea aint gettin fucked with is because they dont have SHIT we need from them.... Illuminati is our Government, and they are taking over the world....
Looks like Saddam runs his country fine to me. He tortures people, but its all for a reason... He dont fuck with innocent people, believe me.... There are no drugs, rapists, and criminals in Iraq because of that shit....
This oil argument is ridiculous.. If America wanted the oil all our government would have to do is lift the rescritions on Iraqi trade right now. If they wanted the oil why didn't they take it in 91? Maybe you don't know that in the first gulf war saddam set all the oil wells on fire and the US came in and put out the fires, and cleaned everything up, then they still handed them back to Iraq. You don't realize that its the oil thats kept America out of Iraq for 12years. Do you know that? I doubt. Look, if we really wanted oil we could tap out of Alaska. Get over the oil bullshit. CNN? ah-ha.. Your the one believing in this anti-America propaganda of "No Blood for Oil". oh.. and fuck CNN..
Damn.. Where do you get your information from? He doesn't fuck with innocent people? He gased innocent people! .. Nevermind.. I wish I would have read your post from the bottom up, so I wouldn't have wasted time replying..
this may sound selfish and petty, but personally i hope we blow all them fucc's up in that country..... i aint just sayin that either, i feel were bein threatend by them, we need to bomb 1st before they get us...... nostradamus said there would be a new world leader, lets just hope it aint saadam....
WHAT?! As a JEW I think your off base. There has never been a Jewish President of the United States.. theres not even too many in office.. and you think America is ran by Jews? His problem with Isreal is pure hate and you know it. But to say its only with Isreal is wrong. Hes stated over and over again how he hates America also.
.. and why do you bring up Jewish people like that?
you must be the one smokin' some serious crack if you think America is doing this only for oil.
damn whatever aye.. this my last time editing this post.. I can't believe people still blame Jewish people for problems like this..
.. and why do you bring up Jewish people like that?
you must be the one smokin' some serious crack if you think America is doing this only for oil.
damn whatever aye.. this my last time editing this post.. I can't believe people still blame Jewish people for problems like this..
I have many Jewish people l know. My lawyer is Jewish man. Just because l say it how it is, dont mean l have a negative vibe towards my jewish comrads. Jewish people are very much active in this country. They are the biggest owners of banks, insurance companies, movie and record companies. There are lots of judges and lawyers that are jewish, and any of those pay more than being the president... Al Greenspan is Jewish. Howard Stern is jewish, you think theyd let a minority run a show like howard sterns on regular cable? Or a show like Jerry Springers? The games the game. Money talks and bullshit runs the marathon.. I am not against the war, but l also arent stupid enough to believe everything CNN or Fox reports.. I aint tryin to get anyone heated over the internet either, l got my thoughts, and thats what l put. It shouldnt offend any of yall....... I also dont believe in Nostradamus. Theres only one god that l trust....
what people dont get is that this is not Iraq vs. the USA. It never was. This country is PRO-IRAQ. we aint got no problem with most Iraqis. This war will be the US vs. Hussein and his regime. We aint tryin to take out Iraq and people are using this as argument for both fuckin sides. if anyone does not think that a war against Hussein (not Iraq) is needed, than you seriously have problems understanding "peace" and whaqt needs to be done to get this "peace" that everyone wants for this world.
If we could take out Hussein without killing innocent people we would do it. why do you think we havent started the war yet. WAR is a LAST result and Bush knows that. Sometimes it just comes to the last resort.
If we could take out Hussein without killing innocent people we would do it. why do you think we havent started the war yet. WAR is a LAST result and Bush knows that. Sometimes it just comes to the last resort.
Honestly right now I'd say we are doing a better job with diplomacy. A few months ago I honestly thought we werent doing shit to try and solve this peacefully but in the last 3 weeks or so we seem to be taking the diplomatic route more serious. But it sounds like we are goin in on St. Patrick's day so don't forget to watch CNN while your crackin your Mickey's.
SEOUL, South Korea (March 9) - North Korea on Sunday accused the United States of plotting an atomic attack against it, continuing the communist North's hostile rhetoric in the standoff over its moves to develop nuclear programs.
Chief U.N. nuclear inspector Mohamed ElBaradei warned that the world must not tolerate the North's ambitions and said in an interview that ``all countries must be treated equally.''
When asked whether North Korea poses a greater threat than Iraq, ElBaradei told the German weekly newspaper Bild am Sonntag that ``in both cases, we are worried about the proliferation of nuclear weapons.''
``The difference is that, in Iraq, we can now check with a team of highly qualified inspectors whether there is a new nuclear weapons program,'' said ElBaradei, who heads the Vienna, Austria-based International Atomic Energy Agency.
``In North Korea, IAEA inspectors were forced out of the country in December, and we know that North Korea is in a position to produce weapons-grade plutonium.''
The nuclear dispute flared in October when Washington said Pyongyang admitted pursuing a nuclear program.
Chief U.N. nuclear inspector Mohamed ElBaradei warned that the world must not tolerate the North's ambitions and said in an interview that ``all countries must be treated equally.''
When asked whether North Korea poses a greater threat than Iraq, ElBaradei told the German weekly newspaper Bild am Sonntag that ``in both cases, we are worried about the proliferation of nuclear weapons.''
``The difference is that, in Iraq, we can now check with a team of highly qualified inspectors whether there is a new nuclear weapons program,'' said ElBaradei, who heads the Vienna, Austria-based International Atomic Energy Agency.
``In North Korea, IAEA inspectors were forced out of the country in December, and we know that North Korea is in a position to produce weapons-grade plutonium.''
The nuclear dispute flared in October when Washington said Pyongyang admitted pursuing a nuclear program.