SHOULD DIGIDESIGN RELEASE PRO TOOLS AS A STAND ALONE SOFTWARE?

HERESY · Jun 3, 2003

DO YA'LL THINK DIGIDESIGN SHOULD DO THIS? RELEASE PRO TOOLS AS AN APPLICATION THATS STAND ALONE (LIKE CUBASE SX,SONAR,LOGIC)? IM NOT TALKING PRO TOOLS FREE (8 OR 32 TRACK VERSION). IM TALKING PRO TOOLS LE OR HD ON YOUR PC AND LIMITED ONLY BY YOUR PC'S (OR MAC'S) POWER.

I THINK THEY SHOULD. FOR PEOPLE WHO ALREADY HAVE GEAR AND DONT REALLY NEED A NEW INTERFACE. SO COMPARE PRO TOOLS (DIGI 001) $750 TO CUBASE SX $450. YOU GET PRE AMPS,INPUTS ETC ETC ETC FOR A FEW HUNDRED MORE. NOW HOW MUCH WOULD IT COST IF THEY SIMPLY RELEASED THE SOFTWARE (AND ALSO IMPLEMENTED DIRECT X)?

OPINIONS AND ALL OF THAT. DROP THEM HERE.

:h:

bumpus · Jun 3, 2003

From the Digidesign point of view, I'd say NO. By making their software work with only propriety hardware, they're ensured that they get to sell you both your sound card interface and the software. With their brand name recognition right now, I doubt they're loosing that many paying customers by requiring propriety hardware. It is also much easier to optimize their software for only one particular piece of hardware, instead of any general hardware someone might use.

From a user standpoint, I love a modular approach, where I can choose which components I want in my audio system. For example, if I wanted to use a Delta 1010 coupled with ProTools LE, I would like that to be an option.

Of course, I don't think that the Protools software is the clear best choice of the market anymore. Other software have matched or bettered ProTools' features, so maybe the issue won't be as important in the future.

-=bumpus=-

RaginHomosexual · Jun 3, 2003

yes i think so if they did i would snatch it up in a hurry. ill still probably be getting pro tools, but i most likely will be getting an external mic pre anyways, and without the interface id be getting a soundcard and midi unit that $$ wise is about the same....the digi001 box to me, is pretty much useless, except for the fact that you NEED it for the pro tools

i do think tho, that the digi002 unit itself is nice because of its onboard mixer

im still trying to decide which to get for my pro tools, 001,002, or 002R

View 1 · Jun 3, 2003

They wont due it for a couple of reason's.

1.) And the most important is that it would kill there HD system's and that is where they make the most money.

2.) How many people use hacked programs??? Well since PT wont work without there ( digidesign ) hardware, they are gauranted that no one will hack the software, so they will get every penny for there product.

Now that they have ASIO drivers you can use there hardware for other software, so that opens up PT doors a little bit, but other programs right now are offereing alot more for the money...

HERESY · Jun 3, 2003

@ VIEW 1

I WOULDNT SAY THAT IT WOULD KILL THE HD SYSTEM. CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT THE HD SYSTEM HAS HIGHER TRACK COUNT,MORE BELLS AND WHISTLES...AND OUTSTANDING HARDWARE (THE INTERFACE ETC ETC ETC)

THE AUDIOPHILLE 3 WASNT "PRO TOOLS" HARDWARE (IT WASNT DESIGNED BY DIGIDESIGN) YET IT WAS BUNDLED WITH PRO TOOLS. DIGI TOOL BOX XP (BEFORE THE MBOX). PRO TOOLS FREE WORKS WITHOUT THE HARDWARE AND IT'S BEEN HACKED. AN 8 TRACK PROGRAM TRANSMOGRIFIED (I WANT TO SOUND SMART NOW) INTO 32 TRACKS...

WELL WHAT OTHER COMPANIES ARE OFFERING YOU 24 BIT CONVERTERS 2 MIC PRE AMPS AND OTHER BELLS AND WHISTLES FOR 650? WITH A TIGHT APP? NOT MANY.

NOW IF YOU COMPARE THE SOFTWARE YOU HAVE A POINT. OVERALL BANG FOR YOUR BUCK? NO WAY. ESPECIALLY IF YOU *DONT* HAVE AN AUDIO INTERFACE. WHICH BRINGS ME TO WHAT BUMPUS SAID

EXACTLY.

YEP I AGREE WITH THAT. HOWEVER IT WILL STILL BE "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY".

@VIEW 1 YOU'RE RUNNIN A PC RIGHT? WOULD YOU WANT TO RUN PRO TOOLS WITH A DIFFERENT AUDIO INTERFACE?

:h:

PS GREAT REPLIES.

View 1 · Jun 3, 2003

HERESY said:

Well I do wish the 001 A/D converters were better. I mean at the most I'm only tracking two different tracks at a time so having alot of in's and out's doesn't matter to me, I would rather have less input's and output's that are higher quailty. I'm happy with the 001 interface, it gives all I need, but the sound is average. If I had something like the delta 1010 or one of 20 million different MOTU interface's it would pretty much offer me the same interfacing that I already have, so I guess my answer is no. I can ( And will when money permits ) add A/D converters' to the 001 so I can get the sound I want out of it eventually.

HERESY · Jun 3, 2003

STEINBERG WAS ABLE TO DO IT WITH NUENDO (8-I/O,2496 NEUNDO AUDIO CARD,HOUSTON CONTROLLER). THEY HAVE HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE AND YOU CAN COP IT SEPRATELY.

IM LIKE YOU IN THE ASPECT THAT IM NOT REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT TRACKING A LOT OF THINGS AT ONE TIME. TWO AT A TIME IS ENOUGH FOR ME.

NOW WHEN YOU SAY THE SOUND IS "AVERAGE" WHAT ARE YOU COMPARING IT TO? BILLION DOLLAR BOARDS OR THE AVERAGE DAW/HARD DISC RECORDER (STAND ALONE)? WHAT DID YOU GET PRO TOOLS FOR? THE SOFTWARE OR THE HARDWARE? OR BOTH?

RAGIN HIT IT ON THE HEAD WITH

THATS FORCING YOU TO BUY IT. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU PAYING FOR WHEN YOU PURCHASE THE DIGI 001? HARDWARE OR SOFTWARE? I MEAN COMPARE THE PRICES AND BANG FOR YOUR BUCK...

:h:

BIG J · Jun 3, 2003

You can actually use MOTU Hardware through Pro Tools. You just need a special Driver you can download of the net somewhere. My teacher in my Pro Tools class was sayin' that he helped a freind set it up. He used to intern for Digidesign.

I think it would be a great idea for someone that has all the hardware already, but wants to get the Software to be compatible with other studios. Pro Tools is alright, I've used it a lot, but it Doesn't really suit my needs. It's only limited to 32 tracks, and the MIDI for it sucks ass. Thatz why I go with Cubase SL.

RaginHomosexual · Jun 3, 2003

exactly :h: -- its a dual mic pre (id be buying a seperate even with it), got midi ins and outs, i could get a good midi 2/2 for less than 150, and a sound card, which i could get a good one for 400....at least the 002 you can actually control SOMETHING with

mo-x · Jun 4, 2003

I'm not a pro tools fan... in fact i am not a fan of any proprietary system. Nuendo 2.0 is out and I can't wait to get my copy... finally a piece of software that actually rivals pro tools on all levels.

Nuendo 2.0 + Apogee A/D/A
Ain't nobody fuckin' with that for producing CD's.

View 1 · Jun 5, 2003

HERESY said:

I would never compare the 001 pre's to an SSl board or something of that nature. I can only compare it to the studio's that I've recorded at. And compared to the old record's we did at certain studio's I think the 001 sound is average compared to those recording's. But there's also so many other factors too, the mic, the pre's the isolation booth ( which I dont have one ) room acustic's etc...

WHAT DID YOU GET PRO TOOLS FOR? THE SOFTWARE OR THE HARDWARE? OR BOTH?

Click to expand...

For the software, as I already stated what I think of there hardware. When I looked into getting a DAW I looked at PT, Paris, Cakewalk ( Sonar wasn't around at that time ) cubase and logic, I really did like DP ( which I used at school ). Paris was my 1st choice but I did not have the money for it, and if I could come up on a two card PARIS system I would buy it still ( well if it has ver 3.0 ) Cakewalk was ok, didn't like cubase, and logic was ok. I did like DP but didn't have the money to go the MAC route at that time. I used PT before and I liked it so, because I was doing mutli tracking and all my midi was and still is hardware based I didn't really need another midi seqeuencer so I went after PT it fit into my price range.

Now that so many VST instruments are coming out I'm starting to rethink that though. I like PT but digidesign is slow on giving its users what they want and need. And now that in the near future comp's will be going from 32 bit to 64 bit and buss speed's jumping to 2g's plus all the host based programs are going to have all the power they need ( if you fallow comp info latley you know what I'm talking about ).

So for right now I'm gonna use what I got it works for me and that is all that matters. But in the future I'm sure I'll be using lots of other program's also.

Nuendo 2.0 + Apogee A/D/A
Ain't nobody fuckin' with that for producing CD's.

Click to expand...

While I agree this would be a great set up ( I love PT but I'll be the 1st to addmit Nuendo 2 looks real good ) its not the only way to go, just one way.

Now if I had Nuendo 2.0 and a Cransong HEDD:classic:

Tony Slaps · Jun 6, 2003

HELL YA THEY SHOULD! IT WOULD SAVE A MAFUCKA HELLA STUDIO TIME MONEY. I'D JUST TAKE THE SESSION HOME & MIX THE VOCALS MY DAMN SELF!

bumpus · Jun 6, 2003

View 1 said:

Bus speeds are currently 333MHz right now, homie... There are a few 400MHz FSBs right now, but there are some problems with them. While it's true that AMD and Intel are releasing some 64bit CPUs soon, they're not targeted at the end user. They're targeted at those who need more than 4gb of virtual memory for a program (which is the maximum that 32bit addressing allows for). I can't think of any program that I use that requires that much... The 64bit CPUs will be slower than 32bit because of cache misses and such if the bus width and nuimber of address lines is not also increased. Likely that will happen, but it will definately cost more.

-=bumpus=-

Tony Slaps · Jun 7, 2003

DAMN! AYE BUMPUS, HOW CAN I SWOOP SOME SAMPLES FROM YOU? TELL ME HOW MUCH.

[email protected]

HERESY · Jun 8, 2003

@BUMPUS WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE NEW HAMMER SETS (CLAW, SLEDGE ETC ETC ETC) FROM AMD?

OK EVERYONE PEEP THIS. LAST NIGHT I USED PRO TOOLS 6. I OPENED UP AN OLD MIX AND ALL THE PLUG INS AND SETTINGS WERE COOL. I RAN 22 TRACKS AND 12 PLUG INS (MOSTLY COMPRESSORS AND DE-ESSERS). I COULD HAVE ROUTED THE TRACKS TO A BUSS BUT WE WERE TRYING TO "PUSH" THE COMPUTER.

IT HANDLED THE TRACKS LIKE A CHARM AND WE DIDNT GET ANY STUTTER OR BREAK UPS. I HAVE 8 MORE TRACKS TO *IMPORT* TO THE SESSION SO I WILL SEE HOW THAT GOES.

I USED BOUNCE TO DISK AND MIXED THOSE 24 BIT FILES DOWN TO A 2 TRACK 24 BIT FILE. I SELECTED "CONVERT DURING". IT TOOK 4 MINUTES (THATS HOW LONG THE SONG WAS) FOR THE BOUNCE TO FINISH.

AFTER THAT I MADE A MASTER FADER (THIS HAS TO BE THE STUPIDEST THING *EVER* IN A MUSIC APP) AND ROUTED THE MIXDOWN TO IT. I APPLIED A 16 BIT DITHER WITH NOISE SHAPING. AFTER THAT I MIXED DOWN THE 24 BIT FILE TO A 16 BIT FILE (BY BOUNCING TO DISK). 4 MINUTES LATER THE SONG WAS FINISHED...

PRO TOOLS 6 IS COOL. IT HAS FLAWS BUT IT HAS IMPROVEMENTS OVER 5.1.1 THE MIDI SEEMS TO BE MORE STABLE THIS TIME AROUND BUT WE DID HAVE TROUBLE SYNCING IT TO AN MPC. WHATS TIGHT IS THE ABILITY TO ROUTE THE MIDI SETTINGS/DEVICES BY CLICKING ON THE "WIRES". SORT OF LIKE REASON.

THE INTERFACE LOOKS LIKE CUBASE SX AND DP3 AT TIMES. ITS EASY TO DO YOUR CROSS FADES AND ALL OF THAT BUT I HAVENT GOT INTO THE AUTOMATION.

WHAT I **DONT** LIKE ABOUT PRO TOOLS (AND MOST PROGRAMS) IS THAT YOU HAVE TO ZOOM IN ****VERY**** CLOSE FOR THE PENCIL TOOL.

I THINK CUBASE SX IS A BETTER APP. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO "SEEING" WHAT YOU ARE DOING. AN EXAMPLE OF THIS WOULD BE THE CUBASE EQ AND THE PRO TOOLS EQ. YOU CAN SEE YOUR SLOPES IN CUBASE BUT NOT IN PRO TOOLS.

BUT....PRO TOOLS IS A TIGHT PROGRAM...IF THEY OFFERED IT AS A STAND ALONE APP I WOULD GET A CRACKED VERSION (LOL!)

:h:

SHOULD DIGIDESIGN RELEASE PRO TOOLS AS A STAND ALONE SOFTWARE?

THE HIDDEN HAND...

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