Over 400 Years of Illegal Immigration
- Thread starter Calm 1 NPK 503
- Start date
MIgKIDDY,
YOU STRESSED, "I tried giving you the benefit of the doubt.
But here you come barking at me again…."
KIND OF REMINISCIENT OF THAT TIME WE TRIED TO TALK ABOUT SCRIPTURE AND YOU CAME WITH THE WRONg BOOK AND I HAD TO DRAg IT OUT OF YOU.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "Just what the fuck are you trying to pull off here????"
SAME AS ALWAYS. gETTIN' DOWN TO THE NITTY-gRITTY OF THE SHIT BY CHOPPIN' IT UP.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "You’re implying that I am ashamed at the idea that I might be caring African genes."
I'M ASKIN' YOU WHY. YOU WASN'T gONNA SAY SHIT. WHY?
THEN YOU STRESSED, "Which indirectly implies that I am a racist."
BULLSHIT. IF YOU FEEL THAT WAY, THEN THAT'S ON YOU. I DIDN'T IMPLY SHIT.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "Racist against people of African descent to be exact."
SUCH DEDUCTIONS.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "First off, you do not know me well enough to reach that conclusion."
WHAT CONCLUSION HAVE I CAME UP WITH? I'M ASKIN' YOU QUESTIONS. I'M JUST WONDERIN' WHY AIN'T YOU SPOKE UP ON SHIT, IF YOU HAVE THAT KNOWLEDgE? YOU MUST REALLY FEEL THAT WAY, CAUSE I AIN'T SAID SHIT, THUS YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "Further more, from what I’ve typed in these boards through out the years;
please point me to anything that I have typed that shows that I am racist towards black folks?"
NOBODY SAID YOU WAS. YOU BROUgHT IT UP AS AN ASSUMPTION AND CONCLUSION.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "If you can’t, then please have a warm bowl of STFU"
WHAT'S UP WITH THE HOSTILITY HOMIE? YOU FEELIN' CORNERED OR SAMETHIN'? I HAVEN'T DISRESPECTED YOU, IMPLIED SHIT, OR ASSUMED N-E-THANg. I'M JUST WONDERIN' WHY.
YOU STRESSED, "I tried giving you the benefit of the doubt.
But here you come barking at me again…."
KIND OF REMINISCIENT OF THAT TIME WE TRIED TO TALK ABOUT SCRIPTURE AND YOU CAME WITH THE WRONg BOOK AND I HAD TO DRAg IT OUT OF YOU.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "Just what the fuck are you trying to pull off here????"
SAME AS ALWAYS. gETTIN' DOWN TO THE NITTY-gRITTY OF THE SHIT BY CHOPPIN' IT UP.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "You’re implying that I am ashamed at the idea that I might be caring African genes."
I'M ASKIN' YOU WHY. YOU WASN'T gONNA SAY SHIT. WHY?
THEN YOU STRESSED, "Which indirectly implies that I am a racist."
BULLSHIT. IF YOU FEEL THAT WAY, THEN THAT'S ON YOU. I DIDN'T IMPLY SHIT.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "Racist against people of African descent to be exact."
SUCH DEDUCTIONS.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "First off, you do not know me well enough to reach that conclusion."
WHAT CONCLUSION HAVE I CAME UP WITH? I'M ASKIN' YOU QUESTIONS. I'M JUST WONDERIN' WHY AIN'T YOU SPOKE UP ON SHIT, IF YOU HAVE THAT KNOWLEDgE? YOU MUST REALLY FEEL THAT WAY, CAUSE I AIN'T SAID SHIT, THUS YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "Further more, from what I’ve typed in these boards through out the years;
please point me to anything that I have typed that shows that I am racist towards black folks?"
NOBODY SAID YOU WAS. YOU BROUgHT IT UP AS AN ASSUMPTION AND CONCLUSION.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "If you can’t, then please have a warm bowl of STFU"
WHAT'S UP WITH THE HOSTILITY HOMIE? YOU FEELIN' CORNERED OR SAMETHIN'? I HAVEN'T DISRESPECTED YOU, IMPLIED SHIT, OR ASSUMED N-E-THANg. I'M JUST WONDERIN' WHY.
You’re just going off of what you see.
Take a trip down to Mexico and witness this first hand, talk to the people and get to know them.
As for Mexican citizens not questioning or fighting for the rights of Indigenous people, when has anyone ever cared about the lower class? They don’t care about them or the provincianos whom they often step over. Just like here in the States (or anywhere else in the world), the upper classes don’t care about the poor.
However, the Zapatista movement has grown very large.
Millions of supporters showed up to a recent Zapatista rally in Mexico City, the nation’s capitol. I was as shocked as anyone, I never knew so many Mexicans were behind the movement and I can now see why the Mexican government hasn’t done anything about it after all these years. Now I know everyone isn’t just jumping on the bandwagon for Indigenous rights, many people are joining the movement for it’s anti-government position.
So as you can see, the Mexican people are doing something about their government.
Compare that to Americans (who are practically bending over for their government).
Did you not question me when I said that we (Mexicans) were indigenous before Euros mixed with us?
All I want is a simple yes or no.
And these people were ONE race and of course they came from another group of people.
That’s exactly what the weblinks I provided you with said.!?
Come on now, NO ONE believes humans evolved/were created in the Americas.
What difference does it make?
Technically one must originate from a certain area in order to be labeled as Indigenous to that said area. But we all know that ALL Native tribes arrived here, but since they were the first to set foot in these lands, they are referred to as Indigenous.
As for the Yucatecans they consisted of Spanish (even other European) people, so they were of a different race. However I wouldn’t consider the mestizos below them as a different race because they were a mix of both Native and European blood. Especially when the time frame is taken into account. But I understand that there’s those who will disagree with this, and that’s a whole different topic….
I know what you mean by the twelve tribes of Israel.
And that’s how I see it as well, which puzzles the hell out of me now.
Just what are you arguing about then?
I follow the whole “Semitic” thing, and its genealogical system can be applied to Indigenous tribes in a way.
However that said word can only be attributed to tribes/people related to the Semites.
For any other group of people, the word “race” would be used.
You ask for my definition of race? It’s the same for everyone else. (why should it be different?) A race is a group of people who posses similar and sufficient traits that are transmittable by generation.
In some cases, the word can also be applied to tribes.
Why do you ask?
Well I wouldn’t say it was mixed people who conquered mixed people.
Caucasians conquered, interbred, and enslaved Indigenous people.
Created a caste system of sorts, placing the fruit of this integration (the mestizos) below them.
The Mestizos united and ousted the Caucasians and created their own nation (Mexico).
I believe so, anyone of these that hasn’t can rightfully and justifiably be labeled an ignorant person. But go on, why the question?
Yes.
The quotations are for the theories of possibilities that there may have been other groups of people other than may have settled here along with the Siberians.
We already know Scandinavians stopped by for a short while. We know that even the Chinese were familiar with the Americas. All of this long before the world’s most celebrated idiot stumbled upon the Americas, Mr. Columbus.
Well you already know my definition of the word.
I can see where some will say that there’s only 3 races.
We already know how Latinos were created. But what about Middle Eastern people, some think they’re just mulattos. I can see that, sometimes the children of black and white parents look Arab. Actually, I see that quite often.
But I think there might be a 4th race, people from India.
Aside from their skin tone, they clearly have unique traits that are unique to them.
Anyways this is a whole different subject but you mention the result of expanding tribes.
Which brings us back to what I asked earlier of mestizos, at what point does a mixed breed of people become it’s own race. This is might be subjective….
Let’s keep in mind that the Aztecs were an empire that consisted of different groups of tribes.
It’s the same with every other indigenous empire here in the Americas (to my knowledge).
(Hell at times it wasn’t even about empires, but something as simple as language. Take the Navajo for example, they consisted of different tribes connected by a common language)
So yes, we have different tribes because as nomadic people, and or game hunters, these people separated themselves.
But they were connected by race. (Wonder if these tribes saw it this way. Probably not as a result of ignorance. For all they knew, they were the only people on Earth).
Ok so you say they’re not of the same tribe, but at one point they were because they are of the same race.
You can’t argue against this. You say that I have the burden of proof, yet that burden falls squarely on your shoulders because you are the only one questioning history itself, not me.
The links I gave you talked about their connections through family genealogy.
Go ahead and try to put me on the spot as being insensitive towards Native Americans, it doesn’t matter because I’m simply telling the truth and you’re (indirectly or directly, you tell me) spinning what I’m saying to make it look offensive.
I understand that these tribes have their differences, I respect that.
But to deny their genealogy is really a slap in the face.
http://pedia.nodeworks.com/N/NA/NAT/Native_American
Like the stuff you’ve been pulling here?
No way….
That is simply your subjective opinion from a very limited outside perception of my people.
Far from fact….
And FACT is, Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, and Utah were taken from Mexico.
But watch you pull $hit out of your La La land and deny this.
Just watch….
Yes.
Simply their roots as Mexicans in a land that once belonged to Mexicans.
Whether those who are protesting care about their indigenous roots is irrelevant to their protests.
Being that many if not most were Latinos, I am certain that as Latinos; they care about their indigenous roots. But they’re protesting for what they believe they have a right for, whether you agree with them or not.
The same thing happened twenty years ago so this is far from being something new.
Illegals are always hopeful of legalizing their status so they’re going to jump at what ever chance they see. Of course it just so happens that illegal immigration is an issue to many now days (thanx to the media).
People were calling for mass deportation and criminalization of illegals, and this is what triggered illegal alien demonstrations in such massive numbers.
And of course, those in support of more flexible immigration reform are only doing so for political gain.
Because it is very simple!
Pay close attention because I’ve said this many times already and hopefully it finally sinks in.
The United States, stole land from Mexico.
No one is saying that Mexican illegal aliens are entitled to all of the US
I’m just saying cats complaining about illegals entering the US should shut the fuck up.
First off, no one here is entitled ownership of this land other than the obvious.
Second these illegals aren’t really illegals; the real illegals here are everyone who’s not of Native/indigenous descent. In other words, everyone crying is a big fat hypocrite and no matter how hard they deny it; I won’t stop labeling them so.
I don’t see the connection of your question to what I said.
Language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spanish_words_of_Indigenous_American_Indian_origin
Lifestyles:
Art, music, mythology, and agriculture.
For a person who has no say in illegal immigration, merely speaking on the subject is an inflammatory act.
You throw the word “coward” as if you yourself were immune to it.
There is much more rebelling going on now in Mexico by its citizens than the US has seen from its citizens in about half a century. From the Cartels of Northern Mexico to the Zapatista movement of Southern Mexico. People are revolting, some via arms and others via voting booths.
Heresy, the Mexican revolution was not that long ago. (it lasted decades and it sure isn’t over yet)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Revolution
The latest presidential race in Mexico is a prime example of the revolution’s everlasting effect.
No no no. I am not claiming anything here. It’s a fact that the majority of Mexicans embrace their roots. Make no mistake about that.
And since when do the upper classes of any society ever treat the lower classes politely?
Please let me know because as far as I know, humanity’s selfish nature has always dictated what people do. Very few (even with the help of spirituality) can over come their selfish nature.
Last, what Mexican Constitutional restrictions on Indigenous people do you speak of?
Read up on “Indigenismo” a movement started after the Mexican revolution.
The Mexican Constitution has been re-written three times due to the changing of powers in an infant nation. The last Constitution drafted in Mexico was in 1917, interestingly Indiginous policies weren’t even ironed out yet at the time.
In fact, it took decades after that to come up with Indigenous policy in Mexico.
Mostly in part due to disagreements between different Mexican tribes.
Ironically, Indigenous policy in Mexico was never finished and it has taken the Zapatista movement to bring it back into the conscious of Mexican citizens.
http://web.pdx.edu/~doughert/indigenous.htm
Ignorance.
Ignorance which affects everyone.
It goes both ways and you know that. One type of people will discriminate the other type and vice versa. It’s pathetic, but yes it happens.
However in the case of Mexico and its citizens, this doesn’t represent the majority the people.
There just isn’t anything in fact to show this.
It’s all from personal perspective.
Here’s an example, I’ve never experienced any discrimination in Mexico based on skin tone.
I’ve seen people look down upon pure blooded indigenous people. I’ve seen upper classes look down upon lower classes (upper & middle classes looking down on villagers).
But I’ve never witnessed anyone discriminating based on skin toned.
I’m sure others have, but I haven’t. And based on what I’ve experienced and what I see today, the majority of Mexicans don’t discriminate on other Mexicans based on skin tone.
That’s pure bullshit. That’s like me saying ALL dark skinned African Americans discriminate on light skinned African Americans just because I’ve seen that happen once or twice in my life time.
As for the majority of Mexicans thinking they’re white, that’s a first.
Contradictory to everything else they do.
But I have seen a few misguided Mexican Americans here and there who think they are white….
You didn’t answer my question.
The first link is nothing new. The media has always had their own ideas as to what is considered “beauty”.
This doesn’t necessarily implicate race all the time.
Talk to American brunettes and ask them how they feel about blondes, and how within white people, beauty is also represented in certain genetic traits.
But it doesn’t end there, I wonder what these black Latinos have to say about the many black Latinos who hide their Latin American roots?
The second link is nothing new that hasn’t been covered already in these boards.
I can’t say I disagree with most of what the writer has to say.
I always found it very intriguing that white Americans took more offense to the Memin stamps than even African Americans. We know the reason why but this is an entirely different subject.
The 3rd link, the writer makes it seem as if though Mexicans are suppressing AfroMexican history. That’s about the only thing I disagree with in terms of his article.
Although Afromexicans tend to keep their own traditions and identity in just the few areas of Mexico they populate, they themselves aren’t too concerned of establishing their own identity on a national level.
You have a few cats like the guy here, but there’s not that many like him. The Afromexican population consists of around 2% of Mexico’s total population, and out of these roughly 200,000 people, mostly all of them reside in rural areas. So I can see how it’s very tough for them to show their presence in regular Mexican society, let alone politics and the education system.
In fact, certain politicians have gone as far as trying to help establish these people’s own identity so that they too are recognized as Mexicans and not Cubans like many Afromexicans in Veracruz will lead you to believe.
I couldn’t open the last pdf link.
What does the Myth based Aztlan have to do with what you and I have been talking about?
And from what we’ve been discussing, when did I deny racism and or racial discrimination in Mexico???? What I’m denying is your ignorant assumption that the majority of Mexicans are racists and/or discriminate based on race.
Last, not only based on indigenous roots;
but the historical fact that a large part of the Southwest belonged to Mexico (which is what this whole thread was about).
It’s more because what I have to say isn’t compatible with your agenda.
I’m not going to play along with your game.
Do your own homework.
You should’ve done it in the first place if you were going to question what I said.
More on this later….
That’s what you’ve been arguing all along.
Genetic science has found Siberian blood lines in indigenous tribes from North America all the way down to South America. Yet you ignore that and ask for connections between tribes in order to prove genealogy.
But yeah as clear as genetics show, I’m the one without the mental compacity to understand this....
Hahahahaha….
Here you go and type this mess right after you typed the above.
Ain’t that a bitch, you’re still having problems grasping this?
Lets go back one last time, to the very first definition of the word tribe:
Tribe:
1 a : a social group comprising numerous families, CLANS, OR generations together with SLAVES, dependents, OR ADOPTED STRANGERS
As you can see from the get go, tribes can represent both direct bloodlines and NO bloodlines at all. There for your assumption that Mexican tribes aren’t connected to Northern Native tribes is in error. 1st in error because you’re not aware of North American Native tribal demographics prior to colonial times. And 2nd in error because you don’t even understand the definition of the word tribe to begin with.
You simply failed because you’re using a word that doesn’t necessarily equal genealogy.
Which further more is pointless because many Indigenous tribes across the Americas are tide by Asian bloodlines. But you simply ignore this because it destroys your groundless argument from the beginning. You then ask for a direct link between Mexican and North American indigenous tribes thinking this will kill our argument because you’re simply oblivious to the fact that Mexicans are descendants of Mesoamerican indigenous tribes AS WELL as Southwestern indigenous tribes….
I don’t know what you’re laughing about.
I want to laugh but I can’t anymore, you’re really lost here.
You are saying the exact opposite of what I actually said.
Are you dyslexic?
In your eyes.
But the fact is that the Mexican nation was an established sovereign nation when the US stole about 1/3 of its land.
Does it matter how you categorize them Heresy?
The point is that they are from the same gene pool.
Funny, you unknowingly prove my point on what I’ve been arguing about since my first post….
Wow, you really showed me
You type this as if I disagree with it.
And the very first paragraph of the article addresses your question….
I questioned you because you come off as someone who knows very little about the Mexican people outside of what you read.
First off I have to defend myself from your accusation that I am the one who’s turned this into a very long post/thread.
I said something, you questioned it.
I answered it and then you responded with more questions (that have been answered for many years now). You then do what you often do and expanded one argument into more arguments.
Moving on… I don’t know of anyone who’s saying that ALL indigenous people in North America are Mexican. But lets say that if someone did say that ALL indigenous people in North America have the same common ancestors as Mexicans would be incorrect. Obviously there are some indigenous/aboriginal in tribes in North America who’s DNA doesn’t match with the larger Siberian tribes. One example (a very common tribe) would be the Eskimos of Canada.
What cats in here are arguing is that a large part of the Southwestern US was taken from Mexico, there for mofo’s shouldn’t bitch about Mexicans populating the said lands.
However I took it a step further and suggested that it goes deeper than just nationality.
And that’s when you and I started this.
The Indian in Spanish America:
Centuries of Removal, Survival, and Integration :
A Critical Anthology
Early Latin America: A History of Colonial Spanish America and Brazil
The Invasion of America: Indians, Colonialism, and the Cant of Conquest
Indian Population Patterns in Colonial Spanish America
The Spanish Frontier in North America
Converting California: Indians and Franciscans in the Missions
Mexicanos: A History of Mexicans in the United States
^^^^
Please read those books to find out more or in your case, “new” found information about Mexico’s indigenous roots. You will find info backing my fruitless argument with you in regards to our connections to early Southwestern indigenous tribes.
Now to answer your questions.
No, not in the way you constructed both situations.
But that’s not what happened in the Americas.
Because although in its infant stage, Mexico was a sovereign nation when the US stole 1/3 of it from the Mexican people. It wasn’t just this big open unsettled land with pockets of tribes here and there as was the case with the rest of North America (which is still considered stolen goods).
And it’s hypocritical to suggest that Mexican citizens are illegal to a land that used to belong to Mexico….
You’re asking a person who sees every indigenous tribe and their descendants as one people.
Including the present day indigenous tribes found in Asia.
So of coarse my answer is yes.
If you were to ask me the same thing about African people, I would give you the same answer.
South Africa too fell to European imperialism, certainly anyone of African descant has more stake to that land than any European.
I understand this…
And in fact I used to see life this way (hell living in Northern Cali I got into the whole Norte VS Sur beef at one point) until my conscious kicked in after learning that my blood is the fruit of a culture who was violated by devilish vipers (we have bigger fish to fry).
There are strength in numbers and if we are to win, we need to find common ground to bring us together. It’s the way it’s always been. After all, it was the division amongst tribes that helped bring down both the Aztecs and Mayans as European settlers were helped by their rival indigenous tribes.
So for the last time, please stop accusing us with living conscious that our ideals are based on politics and not the blood boiling in our veins
I don’t know how they’re treated any differently than how people of different cultures/tribes treat themselves.
The links you provided didn’t show me anything new.
I assume you’re speaking about the indigenous people in Mexico here.
Like I said before, the indigenous movement in Mexico is an ongoing affair.
On one hand, you have the indigenous groups who want closer affairs with the government, while you have others who want to distant themselves from them.
Point is, these groups haven’t been able to find themselves and a Mexican government who doesn’t really care about them isn’t helping much.
The answers you seek are covered in some of the books I posted above but here is a quick link:
http://www.ic.arizona.edu/~anth4206/206/module_06a.htm
That should help you get your feet wet.
I’m saying that the Mexican government (Like most governments around the world. People in this country are spoiled and don’t realize how much better they have it than others) treats its peasants like shit regardless of blood line levels.
Sure the Mexican government has feuded with certain indigenous tribes. Which happen to be the ones who didn’t want to be part of the Mexican union (hence some South American countries who broke off). I’m questioning your suggestion here, that the Mexican government specifically targets indigenous people altogether.
Which obviously isn’t true since there are certain states where the majority are indigenous people who have no “real” quarrel with the government.
I’m laughing because I find your actions funny.
Here you are dividing your people just for trying to strengthen your stance in this debate.
Does it really matter that African Americans don’t know what present day nations they came from? (most if not all nations weren’t even established during those times)
You made it sound as if African Americans are this big mixture of different races
without a core race.
But at least you now recognize that the “core” of African Americans consists of African blood.
Which by everyone else’s standards, is enough to be given the given the “African____” tag.
The core of my people is Mestizo which is basically the fruit of Indigenous and Caucasian blood lines. With indigenous blood running through my veins, was the violation of my ancestors in my hands? Of course not....
Does it mean that I should embrace a culture that was beaten into us over generations by our violators? Man these are questions I bring up every time an ignorant Mexican questions why I don’t follow their lead. Yet here you come (And others in these boards. I’m not singling you out) come and spit me in the face and question the very essence of my foundation of which I’m constantly fighting for against my own ignorant people.
I meant to say that they’re more balanced out in terms of their racial backgrounds.
Portuguese, African, and Natives integrated as one nation.
Where areas with African Americans, you didn’t see this high level of integration between Africans, whites, and natives. Like you said, the core of African Americans remains of African descant.
But….. This is the same tribal argument all over again.
You wanna divide your own race by nation and/or tribes.
What I was implying there is what I said earlier in this post.
And you just said it yourself, you aren’t a native to this land nor was the Southwest ever part of what ever nation/tribe the core of your genealogy came from.
If you’re not a Native, white American, or Mexican;
You have no say in the illegal immigration debate :dead:
So the fact that you can’t trace to an African nation or tribe changes the fact that you’re African just how?
I already covered this.
But that perception exists only in your eyes.
I’ve proven that Mexicans do indeed have indigenous connections to indigenous tribes of South/Western New Spain.
And you already know the other fact.
Our land was stolen, what else are you going to pull to drag-on your losing debate?
If you only knew that there’s a story you haven’t heard not covered in your history books.
Hopefully you already read a fraction of the texts I refered you to.
If that isn’t the case, stop right here….
This phrase pretty much summarizes your fringe and childish approach to debating.
How does the fact that there isn’t anything printed on there saying the land wasn’t stolen,
erase the historical fact that the land was taken from the Nation of Mexico????
Pathetic….
If a gun was pointing at your head, you would give just about anything in order to live.
That’s Euro imperialistic bargaining 101 for you….
By the way, the Chinese, Hindus, and many other immigrants along with the African slaves who contributed to present day California (and the disputed land) didn’t contribute until the land was taken….
Is that the reason why the Aztlan movement has you and Amerikkka shaking in your shorts?
As I said earlier, for the Mexicans down there;
when was the last time you apposed uncle same with a weapon in your hand?
And don’t flatter yourself, long before the civil rights movement (which other minorities joined, yes that includes Latinos and even equal justice conscious white folks) the Natives were fighting back against their oppressors.
If you knew the basics of US history you would know the answer to this.
(The answer is all over this thread so I won’t address this question with an answer)
Already did, finish reading.
Take up a course on Mexican American history if that’s what it takes to get it through to you.
Just did….
Remember, we actually fought against and over-powered our slave masters :dead:
Right, a website pointing at the holes of the Mexican Constitution.
Should I provide you with links that point at the holes of every governmental constitution known to man?
Where in the Mexican constitution does it encourage the mistreatment of indigenous people?????
I DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR YOUR BASELESS RECYCLED RHETORIC….
PLEASE, DO NOT RESPOND UNTIL YOU HAVE ACTUAL EVIDENCE THAT PROVES THE HISTORY BOOKS I GAVE YOU ARE FICTITIOUS!
Take a trip down to Mexico and witness this first hand, talk to the people and get to know them.
As for Mexican citizens not questioning or fighting for the rights of Indigenous people, when has anyone ever cared about the lower class? They don’t care about them or the provincianos whom they often step over. Just like here in the States (or anywhere else in the world), the upper classes don’t care about the poor.
However, the Zapatista movement has grown very large.
Millions of supporters showed up to a recent Zapatista rally in Mexico City, the nation’s capitol. I was as shocked as anyone, I never knew so many Mexicans were behind the movement and I can now see why the Mexican government hasn’t done anything about it after all these years. Now I know everyone isn’t just jumping on the bandwagon for Indigenous rights, many people are joining the movement for it’s anti-government position.
So as you can see, the Mexican people are doing something about their government.
Compare that to Americans (who are practically bending over for their government).
Did you not question me when I said that we (Mexicans) were indigenous before Euros mixed with us?
All I want is a simple yes or no.
And these people were ONE race and of course they came from another group of people.
That’s exactly what the weblinks I provided you with said.!?
Come on now, NO ONE believes humans evolved/were created in the Americas.
What difference does it make?
Technically one must originate from a certain area in order to be labeled as Indigenous to that said area. But we all know that ALL Native tribes arrived here, but since they were the first to set foot in these lands, they are referred to as Indigenous.
As for the Yucatecans they consisted of Spanish (even other European) people, so they were of a different race. However I wouldn’t consider the mestizos below them as a different race because they were a mix of both Native and European blood. Especially when the time frame is taken into account. But I understand that there’s those who will disagree with this, and that’s a whole different topic….
I know what you mean by the twelve tribes of Israel.
And that’s how I see it as well, which puzzles the hell out of me now.
Just what are you arguing about then?
I follow the whole “Semitic” thing, and its genealogical system can be applied to Indigenous tribes in a way.
However that said word can only be attributed to tribes/people related to the Semites.
For any other group of people, the word “race” would be used.
You ask for my definition of race? It’s the same for everyone else. (why should it be different?) A race is a group of people who posses similar and sufficient traits that are transmittable by generation.
In some cases, the word can also be applied to tribes.
Why do you ask?
Well I wouldn’t say it was mixed people who conquered mixed people.
Caucasians conquered, interbred, and enslaved Indigenous people.
Created a caste system of sorts, placing the fruit of this integration (the mestizos) below them.
The Mestizos united and ousted the Caucasians and created their own nation (Mexico).
I believe so, anyone of these that hasn’t can rightfully and justifiably be labeled an ignorant person. But go on, why the question?
Yes.
The quotations are for the theories of possibilities that there may have been other groups of people other than may have settled here along with the Siberians.
We already know Scandinavians stopped by for a short while. We know that even the Chinese were familiar with the Americas. All of this long before the world’s most celebrated idiot stumbled upon the Americas, Mr. Columbus.
Well you already know my definition of the word.
I can see where some will say that there’s only 3 races.
We already know how Latinos were created. But what about Middle Eastern people, some think they’re just mulattos. I can see that, sometimes the children of black and white parents look Arab. Actually, I see that quite often.
But I think there might be a 4th race, people from India.
Aside from their skin tone, they clearly have unique traits that are unique to them.
Anyways this is a whole different subject but you mention the result of expanding tribes.
Which brings us back to what I asked earlier of mestizos, at what point does a mixed breed of people become it’s own race. This is might be subjective….
Let’s keep in mind that the Aztecs were an empire that consisted of different groups of tribes.
It’s the same with every other indigenous empire here in the Americas (to my knowledge).
(Hell at times it wasn’t even about empires, but something as simple as language. Take the Navajo for example, they consisted of different tribes connected by a common language)
So yes, we have different tribes because as nomadic people, and or game hunters, these people separated themselves.
But they were connected by race. (Wonder if these tribes saw it this way. Probably not as a result of ignorance. For all they knew, they were the only people on Earth).
Ok so you say they’re not of the same tribe, but at one point they were because they are of the same race.
You can’t argue against this. You say that I have the burden of proof, yet that burden falls squarely on your shoulders because you are the only one questioning history itself, not me.
The links I gave you talked about their connections through family genealogy.
Go ahead and try to put me on the spot as being insensitive towards Native Americans, it doesn’t matter because I’m simply telling the truth and you’re (indirectly or directly, you tell me) spinning what I’m saying to make it look offensive.
I understand that these tribes have their differences, I respect that.
But to deny their genealogy is really a slap in the face.
http://pedia.nodeworks.com/N/NA/NAT/Native_American
HERESY said:
Sure mig, go ahead and make up something if it suits you. Go ahead and pull more mythical stuff from La La Land or better yet Aztlan.
Go ahead and pull more mythical stuff from La La Land or better yet Aztlan.
No way….
That is simply your subjective opinion from a very limited outside perception of my people.
Far from fact….
And FACT is, Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, and Utah were taken from Mexico.
But watch you pull $hit out of your La La land and deny this.
Just watch….
Yes.
Simply their roots as Mexicans in a land that once belonged to Mexicans.
Whether those who are protesting care about their indigenous roots is irrelevant to their protests.
Being that many if not most were Latinos, I am certain that as Latinos; they care about their indigenous roots. But they’re protesting for what they believe they have a right for, whether you agree with them or not.
The same thing happened twenty years ago so this is far from being something new.
Illegals are always hopeful of legalizing their status so they’re going to jump at what ever chance they see. Of course it just so happens that illegal immigration is an issue to many now days (thanx to the media).
People were calling for mass deportation and criminalization of illegals, and this is what triggered illegal alien demonstrations in such massive numbers.
And of course, those in support of more flexible immigration reform are only doing so for political gain.
Because it is very simple!
Pay close attention because I’ve said this many times already and hopefully it finally sinks in.
The United States, stole land from Mexico.
No one is saying that Mexican illegal aliens are entitled to all of the US
I’m just saying cats complaining about illegals entering the US should shut the fuck up.
First off, no one here is entitled ownership of this land other than the obvious.
Second these illegals aren’t really illegals; the real illegals here are everyone who’s not of Native/indigenous descent. In other words, everyone crying is a big fat hypocrite and no matter how hard they deny it; I won’t stop labeling them so.
I don’t see the connection of your question to what I said.
Language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spanish_words_of_Indigenous_American_Indian_origin
Lifestyles:
Art, music, mythology, and agriculture.
For a person who has no say in illegal immigration, merely speaking on the subject is an inflammatory act.
You throw the word “coward” as if you yourself were immune to it.
There is much more rebelling going on now in Mexico by its citizens than the US has seen from its citizens in about half a century. From the Cartels of Northern Mexico to the Zapatista movement of Southern Mexico. People are revolting, some via arms and others via voting booths.
Heresy, the Mexican revolution was not that long ago. (it lasted decades and it sure isn’t over yet)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Revolution
The latest presidential race in Mexico is a prime example of the revolution’s everlasting effect.
No no no. I am not claiming anything here. It’s a fact that the majority of Mexicans embrace their roots. Make no mistake about that.
And since when do the upper classes of any society ever treat the lower classes politely?
Please let me know because as far as I know, humanity’s selfish nature has always dictated what people do. Very few (even with the help of spirituality) can over come their selfish nature.
Last, what Mexican Constitutional restrictions on Indigenous people do you speak of?
Read up on “Indigenismo” a movement started after the Mexican revolution.
The Mexican Constitution has been re-written three times due to the changing of powers in an infant nation. The last Constitution drafted in Mexico was in 1917, interestingly Indiginous policies weren’t even ironed out yet at the time.
In fact, it took decades after that to come up with Indigenous policy in Mexico.
Mostly in part due to disagreements between different Mexican tribes.
Ironically, Indigenous policy in Mexico was never finished and it has taken the Zapatista movement to bring it back into the conscious of Mexican citizens.
http://web.pdx.edu/~doughert/indigenous.htm
Ignorance.
Ignorance which affects everyone.
It goes both ways and you know that. One type of people will discriminate the other type and vice versa. It’s pathetic, but yes it happens.
However in the case of Mexico and its citizens, this doesn’t represent the majority the people.
There just isn’t anything in fact to show this.
It’s all from personal perspective.
Here’s an example, I’ve never experienced any discrimination in Mexico based on skin tone.
I’ve seen people look down upon pure blooded indigenous people. I’ve seen upper classes look down upon lower classes (upper & middle classes looking down on villagers).
But I’ve never witnessed anyone discriminating based on skin toned.
I’m sure others have, but I haven’t. And based on what I’ve experienced and what I see today, the majority of Mexicans don’t discriminate on other Mexicans based on skin tone.
That’s pure bullshit. That’s like me saying ALL dark skinned African Americans discriminate on light skinned African Americans just because I’ve seen that happen once or twice in my life time.
As for the majority of Mexicans thinking they’re white, that’s a first.
Contradictory to everything else they do.
But I have seen a few misguided Mexican Americans here and there who think they are white….
You didn’t answer my question.
The first link is nothing new. The media has always had their own ideas as to what is considered “beauty”.
This doesn’t necessarily implicate race all the time.
Talk to American brunettes and ask them how they feel about blondes, and how within white people, beauty is also represented in certain genetic traits.
But it doesn’t end there, I wonder what these black Latinos have to say about the many black Latinos who hide their Latin American roots?
The second link is nothing new that hasn’t been covered already in these boards.
I can’t say I disagree with most of what the writer has to say.
I always found it very intriguing that white Americans took more offense to the Memin stamps than even African Americans. We know the reason why but this is an entirely different subject.
The 3rd link, the writer makes it seem as if though Mexicans are suppressing AfroMexican history. That’s about the only thing I disagree with in terms of his article.
Although Afromexicans tend to keep their own traditions and identity in just the few areas of Mexico they populate, they themselves aren’t too concerned of establishing their own identity on a national level.
You have a few cats like the guy here, but there’s not that many like him. The Afromexican population consists of around 2% of Mexico’s total population, and out of these roughly 200,000 people, mostly all of them reside in rural areas. So I can see how it’s very tough for them to show their presence in regular Mexican society, let alone politics and the education system.
In fact, certain politicians have gone as far as trying to help establish these people’s own identity so that they too are recognized as Mexicans and not Cubans like many Afromexicans in Veracruz will lead you to believe.
I couldn’t open the last pdf link.
What does the Myth based Aztlan have to do with what you and I have been talking about?
And from what we’ve been discussing, when did I deny racism and or racial discrimination in Mexico???? What I’m denying is your ignorant assumption that the majority of Mexicans are racists and/or discriminate based on race.
Last, not only based on indigenous roots;
but the historical fact that a large part of the Southwest belonged to Mexico (which is what this whole thread was about).
It’s more because what I have to say isn’t compatible with your agenda.
I’m not going to play along with your game.
Do your own homework.
You should’ve done it in the first place if you were going to question what I said.
More on this later….
That’s what you’ve been arguing all along.
Genetic science has found Siberian blood lines in indigenous tribes from North America all the way down to South America. Yet you ignore that and ask for connections between tribes in order to prove genealogy.
But yeah as clear as genetics show, I’m the one without the mental compacity to understand this....
Hahahahaha….
Here you go and type this mess right after you typed the above.
Ain’t that a bitch, you’re still having problems grasping this?
Lets go back one last time, to the very first definition of the word tribe:
Tribe:
1 a : a social group comprising numerous families, CLANS, OR generations together with SLAVES, dependents, OR ADOPTED STRANGERS
As you can see from the get go, tribes can represent both direct bloodlines and NO bloodlines at all. There for your assumption that Mexican tribes aren’t connected to Northern Native tribes is in error. 1st in error because you’re not aware of North American Native tribal demographics prior to colonial times. And 2nd in error because you don’t even understand the definition of the word tribe to begin with.
You simply failed because you’re using a word that doesn’t necessarily equal genealogy.
Which further more is pointless because many Indigenous tribes across the Americas are tide by Asian bloodlines. But you simply ignore this because it destroys your groundless argument from the beginning. You then ask for a direct link between Mexican and North American indigenous tribes thinking this will kill our argument because you’re simply oblivious to the fact that Mexicans are descendants of Mesoamerican indigenous tribes AS WELL as Southwestern indigenous tribes….
I don’t know what you’re laughing about.
I want to laugh but I can’t anymore, you’re really lost here.
You are saying the exact opposite of what I actually said.
Are you dyslexic?
In your eyes.
But the fact is that the Mexican nation was an established sovereign nation when the US stole about 1/3 of its land.
Does it matter how you categorize them Heresy?
The point is that they are from the same gene pool.
Funny, you unknowingly prove my point on what I’ve been arguing about since my first post….
Wow, you really showed me
You type this as if I disagree with it.
And the very first paragraph of the article addresses your question….
I questioned you because you come off as someone who knows very little about the Mexican people outside of what you read.
First off I have to defend myself from your accusation that I am the one who’s turned this into a very long post/thread.
I said something, you questioned it.
I answered it and then you responded with more questions (that have been answered for many years now). You then do what you often do and expanded one argument into more arguments.
Moving on… I don’t know of anyone who’s saying that ALL indigenous people in North America are Mexican. But lets say that if someone did say that ALL indigenous people in North America have the same common ancestors as Mexicans would be incorrect. Obviously there are some indigenous/aboriginal in tribes in North America who’s DNA doesn’t match with the larger Siberian tribes. One example (a very common tribe) would be the Eskimos of Canada.
What cats in here are arguing is that a large part of the Southwestern US was taken from Mexico, there for mofo’s shouldn’t bitch about Mexicans populating the said lands.
However I took it a step further and suggested that it goes deeper than just nationality.
And that’s when you and I started this.
The Indian in Spanish America:
Centuries of Removal, Survival, and Integration :
A Critical Anthology
Early Latin America: A History of Colonial Spanish America and Brazil
The Invasion of America: Indians, Colonialism, and the Cant of Conquest
Indian Population Patterns in Colonial Spanish America
The Spanish Frontier in North America
Converting California: Indians and Franciscans in the Missions
Mexicanos: A History of Mexicans in the United States
^^^^
Please read those books to find out more or in your case, “new” found information about Mexico’s indigenous roots. You will find info backing my fruitless argument with you in regards to our connections to early Southwestern indigenous tribes.
Now to answer your questions.
No, not in the way you constructed both situations.
But that’s not what happened in the Americas.
Because although in its infant stage, Mexico was a sovereign nation when the US stole 1/3 of it from the Mexican people. It wasn’t just this big open unsettled land with pockets of tribes here and there as was the case with the rest of North America (which is still considered stolen goods).
And it’s hypocritical to suggest that Mexican citizens are illegal to a land that used to belong to Mexico….
You’re asking a person who sees every indigenous tribe and their descendants as one people.
Including the present day indigenous tribes found in Asia.
So of coarse my answer is yes.
If you were to ask me the same thing about African people, I would give you the same answer.
South Africa too fell to European imperialism, certainly anyone of African descant has more stake to that land than any European.
I understand this…
And in fact I used to see life this way (hell living in Northern Cali I got into the whole Norte VS Sur beef at one point) until my conscious kicked in after learning that my blood is the fruit of a culture who was violated by devilish vipers (we have bigger fish to fry).
There are strength in numbers and if we are to win, we need to find common ground to bring us together. It’s the way it’s always been. After all, it was the division amongst tribes that helped bring down both the Aztecs and Mayans as European settlers were helped by their rival indigenous tribes.
So for the last time, please stop accusing us with living conscious that our ideals are based on politics and not the blood boiling in our veins
I don’t know how they’re treated any differently than how people of different cultures/tribes treat themselves.
The links you provided didn’t show me anything new.
I assume you’re speaking about the indigenous people in Mexico here.
Like I said before, the indigenous movement in Mexico is an ongoing affair.
On one hand, you have the indigenous groups who want closer affairs with the government, while you have others who want to distant themselves from them.
Point is, these groups haven’t been able to find themselves and a Mexican government who doesn’t really care about them isn’t helping much.
The answers you seek are covered in some of the books I posted above but here is a quick link:
http://www.ic.arizona.edu/~anth4206/206/module_06a.htm
That should help you get your feet wet.
I’m saying that the Mexican government (Like most governments around the world. People in this country are spoiled and don’t realize how much better they have it than others) treats its peasants like shit regardless of blood line levels.
Sure the Mexican government has feuded with certain indigenous tribes. Which happen to be the ones who didn’t want to be part of the Mexican union (hence some South American countries who broke off). I’m questioning your suggestion here, that the Mexican government specifically targets indigenous people altogether.
Which obviously isn’t true since there are certain states where the majority are indigenous people who have no “real” quarrel with the government.
I’m laughing because I find your actions funny.
Here you are dividing your people just for trying to strengthen your stance in this debate.
Does it really matter that African Americans don’t know what present day nations they came from? (most if not all nations weren’t even established during those times)
You made it sound as if African Americans are this big mixture of different races
without a core race.
But at least you now recognize that the “core” of African Americans consists of African blood.
Which by everyone else’s standards, is enough to be given the given the “African____” tag.
The core of my people is Mestizo which is basically the fruit of Indigenous and Caucasian blood lines. With indigenous blood running through my veins, was the violation of my ancestors in my hands? Of course not....
Does it mean that I should embrace a culture that was beaten into us over generations by our violators? Man these are questions I bring up every time an ignorant Mexican questions why I don’t follow their lead. Yet here you come (And others in these boards. I’m not singling you out) come and spit me in the face and question the very essence of my foundation of which I’m constantly fighting for against my own ignorant people.
I meant to say that they’re more balanced out in terms of their racial backgrounds.
Portuguese, African, and Natives integrated as one nation.
Where areas with African Americans, you didn’t see this high level of integration between Africans, whites, and natives. Like you said, the core of African Americans remains of African descant.
But….. This is the same tribal argument all over again.
You wanna divide your own race by nation and/or tribes.
What I was implying there is what I said earlier in this post.
And you just said it yourself, you aren’t a native to this land nor was the Southwest ever part of what ever nation/tribe the core of your genealogy came from.
If you’re not a Native, white American, or Mexican;
You have no say in the illegal immigration debate :dead:
So the fact that you can’t trace to an African nation or tribe changes the fact that you’re African just how?
I already covered this.
But that perception exists only in your eyes.
I’ve proven that Mexicans do indeed have indigenous connections to indigenous tribes of South/Western New Spain.
And you already know the other fact.
Our land was stolen, what else are you going to pull to drag-on your losing debate?
If you only knew that there’s a story you haven’t heard not covered in your history books.
Hopefully you already read a fraction of the texts I refered you to.
If that isn’t the case, stop right here….
This phrase pretty much summarizes your fringe and childish approach to debating.
How does the fact that there isn’t anything printed on there saying the land wasn’t stolen,
erase the historical fact that the land was taken from the Nation of Mexico????
Pathetic….
If a gun was pointing at your head, you would give just about anything in order to live.
That’s Euro imperialistic bargaining 101 for you….
By the way, the Chinese, Hindus, and many other immigrants along with the African slaves who contributed to present day California (and the disputed land) didn’t contribute until the land was taken….
Is that the reason why the Aztlan movement has you and Amerikkka shaking in your shorts?
As I said earlier, for the Mexicans down there;
when was the last time you apposed uncle same with a weapon in your hand?
And don’t flatter yourself, long before the civil rights movement (which other minorities joined, yes that includes Latinos and even equal justice conscious white folks) the Natives were fighting back against their oppressors.
If you knew the basics of US history you would know the answer to this.
(The answer is all over this thread so I won’t address this question with an answer)
Already did, finish reading.
Take up a course on Mexican American history if that’s what it takes to get it through to you.
Just did….
Remember, we actually fought against and over-powered our slave masters :dead:
Right, a website pointing at the holes of the Mexican Constitution.
Should I provide you with links that point at the holes of every governmental constitution known to man?
Where in the Mexican constitution does it encourage the mistreatment of indigenous people?????
I DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR YOUR BASELESS RECYCLED RHETORIC….
PLEASE, DO NOT RESPOND UNTIL YOU HAVE ACTUAL EVIDENCE THAT PROVES THE HISTORY BOOKS I GAVE YOU ARE FICTITIOUS!
Dog you gave me the impression that you're trying to single me out.
That you're trying to put me on the spot.
When I haven't even said a word.
So coming from one of the few folks in here who I consider cool peoples I was like "WTF is EDJ doin comin at me sideways?"....
Anyways, it's all Geesuz man.
Let me address your question, the theory that African people settled in the Americas even before colonial times is debatable.
Personally I don't care since African folks found their way to Mexico eventually anyway.
So that's why I don't have much to say on the subject.
Now you also asked if I were ashamed at the idea that I might be carying African genes via my grandmother;
why should I?
I'm sure the Africans who planted the seeds didn't rape any of my ancestors and enslaved them.
That you're trying to put me on the spot.
When I haven't even said a word.
So coming from one of the few folks in here who I consider cool peoples I was like "WTF is EDJ doin comin at me sideways?"....
Anyways, it's all Geesuz man.
Let me address your question, the theory that African people settled in the Americas even before colonial times is debatable.
Personally I don't care since African folks found their way to Mexico eventually anyway.
So that's why I don't have much to say on the subject.
Now you also asked if I were ashamed at the idea that I might be carying African genes via my grandmother;
why should I?
I'm sure the Africans who planted the seeds didn't rape any of my ancestors and enslaved them.
Whatever man, I've been busier than hell in the past week or so.
And on top of that I hardly have time to come here on a regular basis.
Having said that, at least look into the following texts:
The Indian in Spanish America:
Centuries of Removal, Survival, and Integration :
A Critical Anthology
Early Latin America: A History of Colonial Spanish America and Brazil
The Invasion of America: Indians, Colonialism, and the Cant of Conquest
Indian Population Patterns in Colonial Spanish America
The Spanish Frontier in North America
Converting California: Indians and Franciscans in the Missions
Mexicanos: A History of Mexicans in the United States
These (and theres more) books should once and for all kill any doubts you have....
And on top of that I hardly have time to come here on a regular basis.
Having said that, at least look into the following texts:
The Indian in Spanish America:
Centuries of Removal, Survival, and Integration :
A Critical Anthology
Early Latin America: A History of Colonial Spanish America and Brazil
The Invasion of America: Indians, Colonialism, and the Cant of Conquest
Indian Population Patterns in Colonial Spanish America
The Spanish Frontier in North America
Converting California: Indians and Franciscans in the Missions
Mexicanos: A History of Mexicans in the United States
These (and theres more) books should once and for all kill any doubts you have....
MIgKIDDY,
IT'S ALL gRAVY. JUST DIDN'T KNOW YOU WERE gONNA SLASH OUT.
BUT YOU STRESSED, "Dog you gave me the impression that you're trying to single me out."
I KNOW I SINgLED YOU OUT IN A WAY FOR NOT ANSWERIN' BUT I DIDN'T SINgLE YOU OUT TO JUST DO IT AND BE MALICIOUS. JUST QUESTIONIN'.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "That you're trying to put me on the spot."
ON WHAT SPOT? WHAT YOU RUNNIN' FROM?
THEN YOU STRESSED, "When I haven't even said a word."
THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "So coming from one of the few folks in here who I consider cool peoples I was like "WTF is EDJ doin comin at me sideways?"...."
NAW, DON'T EVA TAKE IT LIKE THAT.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "Let me address your question, the theory that African people settled in the Americas even before colonial times is debatable."
OH, SO YOU BELIEVE IT'S A THEORY? NO ONE HAS DEBATED THAT BUT MEXICAN COMMANDO, AND I WAS NOT REALLY SPEAKIN' UP ON THAT.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "Personally I don't care since African folks found their way to Mexico eventually anyway."
YEAH, BUT PEOPLE ACT LIKE THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN EITHA.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "Now you also asked if I were ashamed at the idea that I might be carying African genes via my grandmother;
why should I?"
I DON'T KNOW. I JUST KNOW WHEN THE SUBJECT CAME UP ABOUT WHAT BLOODS WERE IN THE MEXICAN MIXTURE, YOU FAILED TO MENTION THE 3RD ROOT. I HAD TO SPEAK UP AND SHED LIgHT. IT'S NOT COMMON KNOWLEDgE AND NOT ADDRESSED AS SUCH AND THAT IS MY CONCERN.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "I'm sure the Africans who planted the seeds didn't rape any of my ancestors and enslaved them."
WHY WOULD THEY?
IT'S ALL gRAVY. JUST DIDN'T KNOW YOU WERE gONNA SLASH OUT.
BUT YOU STRESSED, "Dog you gave me the impression that you're trying to single me out."
I KNOW I SINgLED YOU OUT IN A WAY FOR NOT ANSWERIN' BUT I DIDN'T SINgLE YOU OUT TO JUST DO IT AND BE MALICIOUS. JUST QUESTIONIN'.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "That you're trying to put me on the spot."
ON WHAT SPOT? WHAT YOU RUNNIN' FROM?
THEN YOU STRESSED, "When I haven't even said a word."
THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "So coming from one of the few folks in here who I consider cool peoples I was like "WTF is EDJ doin comin at me sideways?"...."
NAW, DON'T EVA TAKE IT LIKE THAT.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "Let me address your question, the theory that African people settled in the Americas even before colonial times is debatable."
OH, SO YOU BELIEVE IT'S A THEORY? NO ONE HAS DEBATED THAT BUT MEXICAN COMMANDO, AND I WAS NOT REALLY SPEAKIN' UP ON THAT.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "Personally I don't care since African folks found their way to Mexico eventually anyway."
YEAH, BUT PEOPLE ACT LIKE THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN EITHA.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "Now you also asked if I were ashamed at the idea that I might be carying African genes via my grandmother;
why should I?"
I DON'T KNOW. I JUST KNOW WHEN THE SUBJECT CAME UP ABOUT WHAT BLOODS WERE IN THE MEXICAN MIXTURE, YOU FAILED TO MENTION THE 3RD ROOT. I HAD TO SPEAK UP AND SHED LIgHT. IT'S NOT COMMON KNOWLEDgE AND NOT ADDRESSED AS SUCH AND THAT IS MY CONCERN.
THEN YOU STRESSED, "I'm sure the Africans who planted the seeds didn't rape any of my ancestors and enslaved them."
WHY WOULD THEY?
I have posted something to this effect twice in this thread with no response, it is slightly frustrating.
Not to mention the people who are trying to argue that there is a direct link between the Native Americans of North America and the Native Americans of Mexico, and that link gives present day Mexicans claim to the land which is now considered the US have grossly overlooked Mexico’s current immigration policy and how it effects Guatemalan citizens and their attempts to enter Mexico. I believe there is a strong ancestral link between Guatemalans and Mexicans, and why they are not arguing for Guatemalan’s rights to enter Mexico is demolishing their own arguments.
Not to mention the people who are trying to argue that there is a direct link between the Native Americans of North America and the Native Americans of Mexico, and that link gives present day Mexicans claim to the land which is now considered the US have grossly overlooked Mexico’s current immigration policy and how it effects Guatemalan citizens and their attempts to enter Mexico. I believe there is a strong ancestral link between Guatemalans and Mexicans, and why they are not arguing for Guatemalan’s rights to enter Mexico is demolishing their own arguments.
I had an interesting conversation about this same thing (Native Americans and whites) today with a guy I work with....He's 40-something and conservative...What he said to me was, it wasn't a country until white's came and made it an 'official country.' Before that it was a continent with nomadic people who most likely didn't speak the same language as the tribe next to them....
After that, we got into a debate about definitions of words and how they are taken and what they really mean.....but I'm just throwin this out there for feedback....
I think it's bullshit....dude basically said it's okay for whites to come and kill them because that's what white people do....They take shit over and make the other people JUST like them....The difference between the guy I work with and myself is that I don't think killing people and taking over their land is okay to do. I brought up religion and how Jesus and God wouldn't want them to do that--seein that most of the whites came to escape religious persecution....He says to me, that doesn't matter.....So what I wanna know is.....when do principles matter? When they affect you? Are that many people seriously that FUCKING ignorant to ONLY care about shit when it effects them personally?
And as far as Mexico and their laws....There are Americans that don't like America who want out and will get out. It's a big circle, and blaming on country or side will only keep the argument going when people should look for a SOLUTION rather than just bitching about Mexicans taking jobs here, even though they mainly take jobs most American's wouldn't....
After that, we got into a debate about definitions of words and how they are taken and what they really mean.....but I'm just throwin this out there for feedback....
I think it's bullshit....dude basically said it's okay for whites to come and kill them because that's what white people do....They take shit over and make the other people JUST like them....The difference between the guy I work with and myself is that I don't think killing people and taking over their land is okay to do. I brought up religion and how Jesus and God wouldn't want them to do that--seein that most of the whites came to escape religious persecution....He says to me, that doesn't matter.....So what I wanna know is.....when do principles matter? When they affect you? Are that many people seriously that FUCKING ignorant to ONLY care about shit when it effects them personally?
And as far as Mexico and their laws....There are Americans that don't like America who want out and will get out. It's a big circle, and blaming on country or side will only keep the argument going when people should look for a SOLUTION rather than just bitching about Mexicans taking jobs here, even though they mainly take jobs most American's wouldn't....
I have one name for these mexican who think they somehow are entitled to this land.
Cortez
Mexicans are a fairly new breed of people, as a matter of fact the europeans were here before cortez came here and mixed races which made your modern day mexicans.
oh and wouldnt this land belong to the Asians if we went by the illegal supporters standards? Asians migrated here from Asia via the Barring straight all the way down to south america. Wouldnt eskimos be entitled to walk freely into mexico and take their shit because there is really no difference between an mexican indian and an eskimo. no mexico wouldnt allow that but America should?
Cortez
Mexicans are a fairly new breed of people, as a matter of fact the europeans were here before cortez came here and mixed races which made your modern day mexicans.
oh and wouldnt this land belong to the Asians if we went by the illegal supporters standards? Asians migrated here from Asia via the Barring straight all the way down to south america. Wouldnt eskimos be entitled to walk freely into mexico and take their shit because there is really no difference between an mexican indian and an eskimo. no mexico wouldnt allow that but America should?
It's still hypocrisy no matter how much these cats wanna spin it.
Even if "Mexicans" aren't "entitled" to this land,
be greatful these illegal aliens aren't taking this land the way their ancestors did....
We're going to have to agree to disagree here.
But let me just pour a little salt in their wounds.
Whether you like it or not, it's too late....
The nation has already been infected with the virus.
And it feels so good to know that this hurts ya'll so bad :devious:
Even if "Mexicans" aren't "entitled" to this land,
be greatful these illegal aliens aren't taking this land the way their ancestors did....
We're going to have to agree to disagree here.
But let me just pour a little salt in their wounds.
Whether you like it or not, it's too late....
The nation has already been infected with the virus.
And it feels so good to know that this hurts ya'll so bad :devious:
""I SAY WE SHOULD A TAKE OUR LAND BACK""
OK, Any mexican that can prove he or she is 100% native american they are welcome to live on an idian reservation. Anyone that has any spanish blood has to wait in line just like evey other country.
I think some people need to go back to school before they utter a word on this subject.
OK, Any mexican that can prove he or she is 100% native american they are welcome to live on an idian reservation. Anyone that has any spanish blood has to wait in line just like evey other country.
I think some people need to go back to school before they utter a word on this subject.
Yeah I don't think it's a fact the last time I checked.
From what I remember, the only solid evidence supporting early African settlements are the Olmec ruins.
But for the Mexicans not knowing about the African settlements during colonial times then they need some education.
But then again, most Mexican immigrants here in the states are of lower class in Mexico. Which means that they're lacking in the education department (not really their fault).
I got a promotion dog and I just don't have the time anymore.
For the past month or two I've tried to stop by at least once a week.
And even when I do drop by, I only pick out a few threads to chop it up at.
I see your thread is still going strong so I'll try to get to it in a bit.
Peace bro....
From what I remember, the only solid evidence supporting early African settlements are the Olmec ruins.
But for the Mexicans not knowing about the African settlements during colonial times then they need some education.
But then again, most Mexican immigrants here in the states are of lower class in Mexico. Which means that they're lacking in the education department (not really their fault).
I got a promotion dog and I just don't have the time anymore.
For the past month or two I've tried to stop by at least once a week.
And even when I do drop by, I only pick out a few threads to chop it up at.
I see your thread is still going strong so I'll try to get to it in a bit.
Peace bro....