So history courses are inexistent in Mexican schools and universities now?
How do history courses tie into my statement that mexicans need to start learning where they come from? I made my statement based on the FACT that all of the mexicans contributing to this thread have
DIFFERENT viewpoints when it comes to the history of mexicans. Compare and contrast YOUR position with westbaygiant and you will see many differences in thought.
Estadio Azteca, La Virgen de Quadalupe, Moctezuma, etc.
Yeah Mexicans have really lost touch
Indeed they have, and you think 3 or 4 history classes rectify the situation? You honestly believe these classes are somehow going to educate all mexicans about history?
Sure, and once provided will you look into it and read the books or will you come with some rant discrediting the material like you always do?
That is exactly what you implied, unless you’re back peddling now.
It is obvious that you, like westbaygiant (and several others in this thread) have a selective reading/hearing. I have said NOTHING about mexico NOT being inhabited before europeans settled there. Mig I don't sugarcoat. When I say something there is no beating around the bush or "well you implied this" or "I think he means that" type of bull shit. The only reason you are coming with this is because you either lack critical thinking skills, or you simply want to argue just for the hell of it.
I originally stated that we (Mexicans) were Indigenous people before foreigners mingled with our blood. You then went on to question what I said, is that not the case?
I am questioning Mexicans being Indigenous
TO THE UNITED STATES BEFORE FOREIGNERS MINGLED WITH THEM. GO BACK AND READ THE POSTS INSTEAD OF PULLING SHIT FROM LA LA LAND, MIG. I AM TALKING ABOUT MEXICANS AND NATIVE TRIBES ("INDIANS") BEING DIFFERENT, YET I DO RECALL YOU SAYING "FUCK TRIBES", SO NOW I SEE WHY YOU ARE PULLING SHIT FROM LA LA LAND.
HERE IS WHAT I SAID AND PAY ATTENTION TO THE BOLD LETTERS:
There is NO WAY you are going to connect all of todays mexicans to those who inhabited the south west
and
So it is foolish to assume or even make the claim that the entire mexican race are the same as native americans.
I never denied any of this. But what about the ones like me? The ones who see the truth. What does what some people “believe” have to do with reality?
See what truth Mig? You are trying to connect people who CANNOT be connected. The reality is NO ONE here has provided ANY proof linking the mexican tribe to the native american (indian tribes), and to imply that the native americans (indians) came from mexicans is a slap in their face and is a feeble attempt and making a mockery of historical proof which show they do NOT come from Mexicans. Are they similar people? Yes. Similar langauge? That is up for debate. The SAME group of people? No way.
You make it seem as though Mexicans and Latinos in general have lost touch with their indigenous roots.
They have.
I will venture to say from personal experience that those who ignore their indigenous roots are in the minority.
And I will venture to say from personal experience that those who ignore their indigenous roots are in the minority, and that the majority of thsoe who do embrace their roots simply do so for political gain. If the majority of mexicans embrace their indigenous roots, I'd like for you to explain to me why Indigenous people in mexico are still treated harshly and why Indigenous people from america are treated as second class citizens in mexico.
What you don’t understand is that there’s a conflict of classes here. People tend to look down upon those below them. Just ask upper and middle class white folks what they think of their lower class. AKA trailer trash…. In Mexico and Latino America, it’s the same thing.
Sure, I understand it is a class system, but unlike you I don't sugarcoat it and pretend the root of the problem is something else. I'll expound on this later.
Many discriminate indigenous people because of their stance within society. It’s got nothing to do with ethnicity.
Nothing to do with ethnicity? Why is it that within mexico the lighter mexicans tend to be the ruling class while the darker ones get the short end of the stick? You are going to sit here and tell me it is because of their stance on society? Mig, a lot of the Indigenous people don't give a shit about society because they are not concerned with it. They are concerned with their "natural" way of life, preserving their culture, remaining true to their roots and sticking to it. If you mean "stand within society" as in they are treated wrong because they are poor, I would like for you to explain to me how this was the case before teh spaniards arrived and after America defeated Mexico.
Indigenous people happen to be very poor all over Latin America. I’ve seen how lower classes are treated in Mexico with my own eyes. The “Indios” are right there with the “provincianos”. But I can see how the eyes of the uninformed will take what they see on the surface….
See the above, and again it is your own people who are misinformed Mig.
You know exactly what I meant by that.
No I DON'T know exactly what you meant by that. The ONLY person I can vouche for and say "I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HE MEANT" is ME.
Fuck a tribe within the context of indigenous blood lines. Tribes are only a cultural thing, a community. They don’t have anything to do with blood lines.
TRIBES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH BLOODLINE?
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And here it is I thougth westbaygiant was on one. Mig, tribes have EVERYTHING do to with bloodlines. Tribes are not just cultural Mig. Tribes are formed because people intermingle, new blood lines are made, these people move on/migrate and set up shop in new places. Tribes have EVERYTHING to do with bloodline Mig, but seeing as you are hell bent on promoting that they don't I would like for you to explain the bloodline of Abraham and the 12 tribes of Israel. :dead: Now, I see that you might go ahead and swerve past that one on the grounds that you are saying fuck a tribe "within the context of indigenous blood lines", but once again HISTORY and SCIENCE shows they are distinct tribes, who fought with one another and science shows that although their DNA may be similar it is NOT the same.
I am talking about my people’s gene pool. I am talking about race/ethnicity.
How can you talk about RACE/ETHNICITY and NOT talk about the bloodline?!?!?!?! 
EAD:
So they weren’t of the same race????
No, they were not the same tribe.
Here are excerpts from the link you posted Mig:
Indigenous peoples in what is now the United States are commonly called "American Indians" but more recently have been referred to as "Native Americans". American Indians make up 2% of the population, with more than 6 million people identifying themselves as Native Americans, although only 1.8 million are registered tribal members. A minority of US Native Americans live on Indian reservations.
Pay attention to where your link places the Aztecs:
The territory of modern-day Mexico was home to numerous indigenous civilizations prior to the arrival of the European conquistadors: The Olmecs, who flourished from between 1200 BC to about 800 BC in the coastal regions of the Gulf of Mexico; the Zapotecs and the Mixtecs, who held sway in the mountains of Oaxaca and the Isthmus of Tehuantepec; the Maya in the Yucatán (and into neighbouring areas of contemporary Central America;the Purepecha or Tarascan in present day Michoacán and surrounding areas and, of course, the Aztecs, who, from their central capital at Tenochtitlan, dominated much of the centre and south of the country (and the non-Aztec inhabitants of those areas) when Hernán Cortés first landed at Veracruz
Again, I am saying they are different TRIBES, and because HISTORY and SCIENCE prove without a doubt that they are different tribes, most mexicans cannot claim to be "indigenous" to the united states. Why can't they claim this? Because they were not in the united states and the people who were in teh united states are still here or have been wiped out. Those people are the "indians".
So what now, you’re arguing for the sake of arguing? I already asked you this, I said that we were indigenous people before we were raped by Europeans, for ever altering our gene pool.
Actually, the Indigenous claim
ISup for debate (just look at the links I previously posted in response to you.) However, that is not what I am debating. I am saying that most MEXICANS are NOT the indigenous people that were here. I am saying it is WRONG to classify ALL Indigenous people from north america as "mexican."
What mexicans are doing is basically saying "we are all indigenous therefore we are all entitled to this land", yet they treat the natives like shit (refer to the link you posted) and have no real connection with them.
You then questioned what I said, and it wasn’t the rape part.
Please elaborate.
You questioned my people’s roots by implying that we are not connected to the indigenous tribes of the Eastern US. As if we were from a different race.
No, I questioned your peoples roots to the land north of the current mexican american border and the southwest united states. I have said NOTHING about the tribes of the Eastern United states, but if you are saying your people came from the eastern united states I would like for you to provide me with some proof to validate that claim.
What I’ve seen has been seen by others, has been seen under a microscope, has been documented by historians, and has been lived by my people. However what you claim only comes from your “imagination”.
Yet, you have provided no proof to substantiate your claim, and the link you DID give places the two groups at two DIFFERENT places. Also, proof that you and other mexicans partaking in this thread can't even agree on simple concepts and origins only add more speculation to the entire ordeal.
Last time I checked, it was the Indios of Chiapas who rose up in arms. Yes under the leadership of a Mestizo in Marcos, hell he might be Castellano. We can only speculate on what his personal intentions are. Whether he has other motives remains to be seen. It’s almost irrelavent because the Indios don’t care.
My previous statements regarding motivation apply to this as well.
I asked a couple, but they never gave me a straight answer. Which leads me to believe that there’s some kind of jealousy involved. Other Natives I know are good people but I never bothered to ask them why some of them dislike Latinos.
Maybe the natives don't like the mexicans because mexicans were fucking them up just like the white man. Come to the Pow Wows here in Solano County and you can ask as many as you want. Speaking of Pow Wows I have went to several of them now, and to be honest I do NOT recall seeing a mexican in the building. In fact I marvelled at an ASIAN being in the place. Also, they probably don't like mexicans because mexican nationals (like Atzlan)are trying to use them for gain, but that is only my opinion.
Indigenous people came to the Americas thousands of years before modern day African Americans came to the Americas.
Mig, modern african americans NEVER came to america. African americans are
basically the result of african slaves (from MANY tribes) being mixed with whites and natives (from MANY tribes.) If you are claiming indigenous people came before Afrikans that is something entirely different, up for debate, but not something I am debating right now.
It’s easier for you guys to trace your roots but the point is you’re still of African descent. Who’s going to question that? It’s pretty obvious. However here you are questioning the Olmec’s ethnicity. Which is pretty mind boggling.
Not only am I questioning the Olmecs ethnicity (because their origins are CONSTANTLY debated), but I am questioning YOUR ethnicity Mig. The reason I am questioning it is because I don't recall mentioning Olmecs or even seeing the name in this thread until I asked you what tribe you were from. You asked me and I gave you my answer to the BEST of what my family has researched. Now, once again, what tribe do you come from? Olmecs? Can you end the debate and tell us where the Olmecs come from?
Now why in the world would you want to go back to Africa? Like one of my favorite comedians said, if Africa was sharing a border with the US, you guys would be hopping that fence too. But it’s different with us. It’s like one day some individuals boot you from your house. You later come back to claim what is yours and the people who took your home have the audacity to ask you what the phuck you’re doing back. It’s like the fucking Dutch complaining that there’s too many Africans coming to South Africa.
To answer your question, I would have to first be from afrika and actually come FROM afrika to go BACK to afrika. How can I claim a certain piece of land in Afrika is mine when I can't trace to that specific area? Trace to Afrika? Yes. Trace to the correct area? SLIM TO NONE. And it is the SAME thing with mexicans only worse. Just because the land belonged to "indigenous" people, that does not mean it belonged to ALL of them, nor does it mean ALL of them INHABITED or CONTRIBUTED to its social and economic development.
Of but of course you’re going to say that.
It’s in your best interest to appose such an idea like taking back what’s been stolen from you.
The united states was never stolen from Mexicans. Stolen from the native american tribes that lived in the area? Yes, you have a point if this were your position but it is not your position. And no, it is not of course I am going to say that because you have some blacks (like Marcus Garvey) who believed black americans SHOULD leave america and go to afrika. The problem with this is we don't know where we SHOULD be, AND we would be disrupting the infrastructure already in place. Basically we would be an imposing force with frail claims just like the mexican nationals that you support 100%.
Besides, why in the world would want to take a backwards step? You’re already here, the land of milk and honey.
Taken a step backwards? Oh I get it now! Why don't I come up with a fictious claim, call myself indigenous, hold protests and search for a mythical place that never existed. Why don't I try to impose my will and take over a country that already has a current infrastructure because I am too damn scared to change the current system and oppose the government that is causing poverty in my homeland....
I’m just getting started.
You’re trying to kill our whole argument by killing our roots. But that’s not going to happen.
History is killing your roots, and the europeans and spaniards damn near did it literally.
This has always been our land, whether you think we’re using this as an excuse to hop the border or not.
No it hasn't mig. This land belonged to the native american tribes, and this land was also taken in war and it was also purchased. The majority of mexicans have not always lived in america, and your link even proves this to be true. Simply claiming this is your land on the grounds of being indigenous is retarded and holds no weight.
Motive is ALWAYS relevant Mig. Why is it that you never really saw mexicans fighting for native american rights? Why is it that mexicans didn't really hop on the bandwagon until it became popular? Why is it that the mexicans are too afriad to stand up to the mexican government? Why is it that the mexican constitution allows for mistreatment of non-citizens and natives? Don't even worry about answering these questions mig. You can't answer them and you won't answer them.
Foreigners calling us illegal aliens in our own land is hypocrisy at its finest.
If you were a native american i would agree with you.
EXCUSE ALL TYPOS.
