this past week ive been debating a cop on an ice cube message board who is extremely offended at the song fuck the police. it was a really long arguement, my goal was to open his mind up, but he refused to, so i gave up on it. then he sent me a message pushing me to continue the arguement, and i came back and made him look like a jackass, my points were so valid that he had to resort to attacking me personally.
*his original post*...
You'll have to excuse me, I prefer Motley Crue and Metallica to other forms of 'music' so have only just heard one of your tracks.
I didn't hear it because I like it, I hasten to add, but owing to the profession I'm in, I was curious to hear '*Beep* the police'.
Awsome. Great lyrics. Inspirational. You must see yourself as quite the role model? Or perhaps even some sort of 'prophet' to those who like to call themselves 'soldiers' but would never, EVER contemplate actually joining the military because they have to do, like, u-uuh, proper soldier stuff! Discipline? Na-aaaaaaaaah!
However, since you're now worth a bundle of cash, live in a big house, drive a flash car and can light your cigars with $100 dollar bills, please, do tell, who do you call when someone tries to break into your home or steal your car? I'd of course like to believe it would be your 'homies' since you have such clear distaste for the police. Except, I can't help thinking, now that you've got yourself out of that particular, how can I say it, less than desirable part of town, and the attraction of all your old 'friends' might not have the same pull it used to, you'd choose to call those you vilified the most.
This is most probably very old news and was quite probably swept under the carpet years ago, but I've just heard it and I'd be curious to know, most especially if I'm ever around at one of your glitzy premiers when you're with some of your new found more... 'glamourous' friends. What would be even sweeter would be if I was ever around when you shouted for help. After listening to that, you're on your own, pal.
*i followed him to another message board and left this as a reply*...
if you listen to the song, the police are harrassing him for all sorts of irrelevent reasons. im sure if the police treated everyone fair, nwa would of never felt the need to make a song called *beep* the police. thats why they never made a song called *beep* the fire department or *beep* the construction workers, ect. the truth is, alot of cops DO abuse their authority. alot ARE bullys. alot are ALSO heros. some are pigs, some are heros. im sure ice cube has respect for any cop that does his job by the books, but im also sure he was much too familiar with rodney-king type incidents during the year he wrote the song (1986). it still goes on today, if you dont believe me, just search for OSCAR GRANT anywhere on youtube, you will find a video of a cop shooting a handcuffed kid execution-style. the cop that shot oscar grant was RELEASED on 3 million dollars bail, who put the money up to release such a scumbag? im not sure, but it wouldnt surprise me at all if a few other cops on his force chipped in on it. and THAT is the type of police NWA made the song about. *beep* THEM.
and also, if your gonna judge a person based on something they wrote 23 years ago, you need to grow up.
** his reply**...
Re: '*Beep* the police'. Is that so?
by nickle98 (Thu Mar 12 2009 06:13:06)
Ignore this User | Report Abuse Reply
UPDATED Thu Mar 12 2009 11:02:53
In my line of work, people tell me all the time that I'm harassing them. Their irrelevant reasons being possession of illegal weapons, drugs, you name it. The last guy I "harassed" had a crack pipe and used needles on him has one impending for robbery and he told me I was harassing him. I told him that I wouldn't need to even speak to him if he didn't take drugs and rob people of their property to feed his habit, so sorry Bob, but it goes with the territory in which you choose to live. That song I take as an attack on me and what I do. I don't go around abusing my authority, I go around trying to justify the wage I'm paid by doing the best I can for the people I work for - like it or not, that means YOU - using common sense and discretion whenever I can. So I take this song as really offensive. There's abuse in EVERY line of work, from the guy skimming from the till right up to Presidents. Yet I only ever hear the same tire old argument - blame the police for everything in my life going wrong! It rains, I get wet, blame the police! Look at the name of the band! Aggression and contraversy right there. Where's NWAs song about the guy skimming from the till or of the President who abuses his authority. Oh yeah, they might make a film of it, but you get to choose to watch what you like and I'm gussing you tend not to watch political thrillers, right? But when I have to get involved in an argument, there are always two sides to the story. Only one side of this story has been sold to you. You're not interested in mine and my story will never get the coverage that NWAs does, so I'm only ever going to be listening to stuff from people like you who stalk me around to other boards. IC had his say and his opinion reached everyone who heard it as they sat in their car on their way to work, whether they agreed with it or not. I've had my say on it becasue I take it as a bit of a personal attack. Now I have people like you following me around wanting me to give you my same justification time after time. Read my previous. It's boring going over and over it again and again. "im sure ice cube has respect for any cop that does his job by the books"? Yeah? Well where's NWAs song about it? It wouldn't sell many copies, would it? And it'd ruin their "gangsta" image they've tried so hard to create and sell to you. And it would also have meant that I wouldn't have responded to it and you wouldn't have chase me to other boards. But he DIDN'T make a song about "any cop that does his job by the books", did they, so here YOU are!
Please, do tell me about Rodney King. Tell me about his circumstance. The stuff you most likely don't know though. You don't have to tell me about the cops who beat him. I'd rather see them dealt with appropriately than have a guy with a chip on his shouler tar us all with the same brush and have people like you responding to it.
"and also, if your gonna judge a person based on something they wrote 23 years ago, you need to grow up." What a stupid thing to say. When the song was made is irrelevant. If it's played today as it was then, it still has exactly the same impact. TV shows back in the 60s or 70s which played on racial content which were probably funny then but were accepted by our society, aren't shown again because our society has moved on and, by whatever means, has realized the error of its ways and has accepted that the joke is unacceptable in this day and age. But **** the Police is still being played, and it's had its effect on you, hasn't it? People are still judged on what they did 23 years ago, if you don't believe me, take a look at the prisons. Or this:
"On July 3, 1980, while off duty, Ptlm. Desmond Sherry, of the Cleveland Police Dept., being the dedicated officer he was on duty and off, saw suspicious activity that he felt the need to investigate. During this investigation, he was robbed and killed by James Porter.
Desmond Sherry left behind his wife Connie, a 6 1/2 year old son Michael, and a 3 1/2 year old daughter Theresa.
Porter was sentenced to a minimum of 27 years to life in prison. He is presently incarcerated at the Lake Erie Correctional Institution.
Due to the State of Ohio's definition of life imprisonment, Porter is eligible for parole in March of 2009."
This officers son will now be 35, his daughter 32. They grew up without their daddy because he did the job he was paid to do when he was OFF duty and he paid for it with his life. Why don't you take your argument to his kids? As far as I can recall, Patrolman Sherry didn't get a mention in NWAs diatribe. Where's his song? You make your bed, you lie in it. If you don't want consequences of your actions, police stopping you and 'harassing' you, then don't do the crime. You want to do the crime, then expect me and and my colleagues to do our damndest to stop you. It's easy to call it harassment because you don't like it. Another favourite is: "Are you only stopping me because I'm black?" To which I respond, no, its because of the crack cocaine you've got on you, the concealed weapon you have in your pants, the stolen goods you've got under your shirt, and A-HA, here they are! Are you itching to tell me, Mr X, that I must have *planted* them or would you agree I had reasonable cause to, as you perceive, 'harass' them? My kid and other peoples kids have to grow up in a society that we create. If my job calls for me to upset someone who makes a living by creating misery for other decent, law abiding people, then so be it, I'll do it every day until I retire.
But to do something so high profile which goes everywhere on the radio is going to provoke a reaction, and I heard it and actually listened to is shortly before my original post.
"THAT is the type of police NWA made the song about. *beep* THEM." Garbage. The 'song' is "**** the police". I hear it today and it refers to me and people like me.
If you've got any more questions, read my previous. If you don't like it, well that's too bad, I can't help your opinion. If you can't find an answer to your question, then ask me here. I'll answer you here. Don't go chasing me around. I'm not being unfair to you, I would appreciate the same courtesy.
**my reply**...
im sorry you feel offended by the song, but i feel offended every time im pulled over for driving a cadillac. so we might have spite for eachother, but at least we are only complaining about it through songs or the internet and not just randomly killing eachother. when people treat other people like they are not even human beings, it means they can no longer relate to other human beings, and by default are the ones who are inhuman.
if you really do your job by the books, than i am in full support of you. if you understood my post correctly, i said some cops are heros, some cops are pigs.
alot of people seem to hate cops, when they should take their anger out on the laws instead, and i understand that. so i understand where your coming from, and at the same time i understand where ice cube was coming from. ive been stopped by police many times for looking suspicious, i have friends that have been tazed when it wasnt necesarry. at the same time i know that cops have to react quickly because they deal with lots of confrontations and are very paranoid. so i sympathize with legitimate cops and i sympathize with frustrated civilians.
what i DONT sympathize with are bullys or murderers. if you are neither of those, dont feel offended.
ice cubes written MANY songs about politics and the president, heres a song he recorded in 1991 called "a bird in the hand is worth more than a bush" that is written about the perspective of a father who ends up selling crack because he needs money quick, and staying legitimate wont pay as much as if he sells drugs, check it out here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjYnMTVsxgI
here is another song he recorded called "us" and its his message to the black community to take a look at themselves and get it togeather
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU0nuQfpQWU
**his reply**...
Mr x. You feel offended every time you get pulled over? Why? Do you have the same cop pulling you over every time? If not, you might question what it is about you or your vehicle which prompts individual cops to pull you over every time. Do you have previous, was your vehicle involved? Like I said, some things go with the territory. And I don't have any spite for you. Why would I? I don't have spite for *any* of the people I deal with because it's not my life they impact on, but I deal with them in the best manner that I can, because they impact on other peoples lives. If you've got no record to speak of or you don't have a chip on your shoulder, then my ability to exercize discretion normally gets used. If I were to stop you, you most likely wouldn't refer to it as harassmemt at all, unless of course you cop an attitude as soon as I pull you. It might be handy to realize though, cops don't have a crystal ball with them, they have to seek out and find a lot of their work - which makes them good cops when they find it. Infact, in pulling you they're doing what they're supposed to be doing if they have suspicions. I'd say the officers attitude - as well as yours - goes a long way in determining how the stop is perceived, from the persons stopped perspective. But more often than not, without that crystal ball, no cop knows if you're going to suddenly pull out a gun or a knife, and a cop must maintain control in every situation he deals with, because just like every accountant, he should get to go home at night having finished his work.
Unfortunately, in the circles I work in, a lot of people have absolutely no regard for humanity. They'll abuse it every time, take from it what they can get and live in their own filth with no regard whatsoever about their actions or their effects. But you most probably don't enter those circles, so you won't appreciate that.
You sympathize with both parties? If you can come up with a suggestion as to how I can go about my days work without stopping perfectly decent people, then please, let me know. But there is not a single vehicle I stop which is not commiting some sort of violation and more often than not, that just leads to words of advice, even that a State Trooper might pull them and ticket them for what I haven't!
Yes, I am one of those. You say don't feel offended? How can I not? I do what I do and I have this song played at me. It offends every strand of me. The nasty cops you know about, you see on TV from around the country. Good cops doing good stuff isn't shown on the news in nearly the same way. Let me ask you, do you buy brands you see advertised on TV? It's a big influence, huh? Bad cops deserve everything they can possibly get because it ruins all the good work decent cops do,which is kinda the way you're seeing it, I think.
And Ice Cube might have written all sorts of songs, none of which I've taken any interest in, unless of course I realize it refers to me and people like me. Maybe Mr Bush should start a thread to defend himself, but then, he had a big audience at the time. I just get to listen to crap on the radio and sit and take abuse from idiots who think it's the coolest thing to do to become clones of the rich guys who pump their influences at them. Except, I doubt those idiots are quite so rich. They just line other peoples pockets. Stupid people doing stupid things with guns like to hold them high and on their side. You've seen it in every gang movie, at least. Why? That won't give a well aimed shot at all. But that's the way they have to do it because it looks the part because they have to emulate the big earners they see in the music videos. If they watched the news and saw how the army or the cops do it, they'd get better results, but that's not how their 'gangsta' lords and masters do it, and they certainly don't want to do it in a proficient military manner. Oh no, they have to have their pants around their knees with the pistol grip sticking over their belt in order to look just like the next guy with the same master. It actually makes me laugh, all these clones talking the same garbage in the same way from one town to the next. Do they walk in that stoopid way to stop their pants from falling down, d'you know? You know where wearing your pants low comes from, don't you? Prison. It has a meaning too. I'd pull them pants up if I were you!
And come on man, some communities will never get it together. Call it any 'ism' you want. But who is it who runs the gas stations, the convenience stores, wears the suits and who is it who robs them at gunpoint? If you're thinking it, then the same 'ism' applies to you, right? Look at the Olympics though, the same 'ism's apply there, don't they? From the swimming pool and cycle track to the 100m sprint. You notice any differences or do you want to keep your eyes shut? That doesn't come from a bad attitude, but from physical capabilities. Some peoples bodies can't deal well with swimming, others can't deal with sprinting or heavyweight boxing. Instead of burying our heads, we need to accept that in general terms, people are different. Oil and vinegar are liquids, but they don't mix, no matter how hard you try. Some people are conditioned - *every* gangsta drew the short straw in Compton, right? Yawn! But other people got their act together and stopped blaming other people or circumstances for their miserable lives. We have cops, marines, soldiers, sailors, airmen, paramedics, coast guards, architects, industrialists, zoo keepers, artists, film crew, mechanics, any line of work you can think of who could have gone down the route of blaming someone else and having to resort to selling drugs to feed their kids, but these choices were made early on. The made their beds and they're lying in them, very comfortably. I don't generally have much call to stop them, but the people I *do* have to interract with, as part of what I do, don't like it because I generally interrupt their illegal activities, whether I agree with the law as it stands, or not, and they protest at 'harassment' and "Are you only stopping me becasue I'm..." because they don't like to be caught. Most people I'd previously mentioned accept this as they realize I don't have a crystal ball to work with. The collateral damage is that some people don't realize it and object to us trying to do our jobs. They often fail the 'attitude tests' so they're not going to get a decent or understanding experience, because they've already decide it ain't gonna be that way. "I'm being harassed by the police again" Generally though, that's from teenagers and kids in their early 20s. Is that another 'ism' or a fair observation perhaps? Can I ask you, Mr X, where you fall into?
**my reply**
the bad cops i see on tv are still cops, just because they were on tv doesnt mean they couldnt of pulled me over and pepper sprayed me in the eyes for listening to ice cube. i dont have it out for cops like you, but as another human being your annoying and very self absorbed, your offended by a song about cops, you think your the only cop in the world or that everyone does stuff your way? what about Johannes Mehserle who went ahead and murdered oscar grant just a few miles away from me? what about the other cops who've been doing the exact same thing and not getting caught? where does the feeling of being above everyone else come from? because your being paid to do it by the government? the police are basicly just the governments gang, so i really dont see much difference between what officers are doing and what nortenos are doing. the only difference i see, is that the government has MUCH more control over the streets, if any other gang had control over the streets like that, and the official police were just a small group of people living in a city and trying to gain more power, chances are theyd start selling drugs to start moving up in the chain of command. you are a gang member and are no different from the crips or bloods. and if you feel offended by that, tell that to the gang members you bust and maybe that'll help them understand. i know you wont agree with that, so im done with this, i've made my point, and now im going to get on with my life
**his reply**
Yeah, bad cops are bad cops, from those who became cops coz they got bullied and want to take it out on someone else, to those who just want to avoid every bit of work they can. You, I guess, generally just notice the ones who like to abuse their authority. If you work, you'll have people who are bad at doing what *they* do, but does that make you as bad as them? I don't think so! Why should you get lumped into the same box as them?
You know, I've been doing this for seven years now, and not once have I ever had the need to pull my pepper spray out. Why would I do that to someone for listening to IC? And I'm annoying and self absorbed? Well hey, it wasn't me who chased *you* to another board to try to get a response out of you. You ask me something, I'll tell you. If you think that's self absorbed, perhaps you shouldn't have chased me to another board in the first place. What were you expecting, or did you just pitch in to have a little temper tantrum? I don't know how many others do it like me, but then, you wouldn't have a clue about that as there isn't a song about it, so you need someone to tell you just so you can spit your pacifier out and tell them they're self absorbed. How much more self absorbed do you want other than writing a song about yourself and making people listen to it for over 20 years? Oops, you didn't think of that, did you?
Oh, I'm in the 'Governments Gang'? What was it you said to me? If I "want to complain about a song that's over 20 years old I should grow up"? Get a grip, little man, the 'governments gang' garbage is nearly fifty years old! What a really stoopid and juvenile thing to say! Ooh, "Its a government conspiracy, man!" Look, this isn't the 'Born on the 4th of July' site, get a hold of yourself! Thanks for the smile though, you're really showing yourself up!
No, I don't feel offended by what you said, it's you who looks like the aeging hippy or little kid who doesn't like to get caught and is carrying a rather large chip on his shoulder. Your voice and your opinion amount to nothing. You're clearly not a person I'd choose to have a beer with or go to a ball game with, unlike my buddies who aren't a$$ holes and have put the time in, both at home and abroad, so why should I spend any time considering *anything* you have to bleat about, hm? I'll respond to you, but your opinion means nothing. It would if you sounded level headed and could give a structured intelligent response, but since that ain't you, you think you're gonna upset me? Oh yeah, sure, like that's gonna happen, but hey, it was almost a funny idea while it lasted!
"i know you wont agree with that, so im done with this, i've made my point, and now im going to get on with my life"
What is this? Tag, you're it? You want to get me to respond, say your bit, throw a little strop then run away "I'm not listening, I'm not listening!"??? What are you, a twelve year old girl? What, you don't have the capacity for a structured response? You *know* that *I* won't agree so *you're* done? Does that mean you're too close minded and ignorant to accept there might be something else, coz clearly you don't want to hear it? You've made no point at all, but you *have* demonstrate the type of individual you are. You've just whined and cried about the same old garbage with nothing to show for it and in doing so have just emphasized your need for a surrogate parent because you don't seem overly capable of being able to handle very much. When I get pulled over I don't make a big deal out of it, and I most certainly don't tell the cop what I do, I want to hear what he's got. He finds out when he asks for ID. You? You squeal 'harassment' at the first opportunity! Man, you might not have a spine, but do you have issues!? Remember, you chased after me, and from what I can make of you, you probably don't have much of a life to be getting on with. I thought after your first reply there might have been a bit of substance to you, but I guess I was mistaken. But hey, go get on with what life it is that you lead, little doggy. But you know, this spitting your pacifier out and telling me "i've made my point, and now im going to get on with my life". What a joke. You'll reply, you won't be able to help yourself, and when you do, I'll wipe the floor with you then, too.
Until then, enjoy the frustration!
**my reply**...
im just saying your not better than anyone else, and since i cant argue reasonably with you because you just spit all this one-sided nonsense at me, i'm just gonna resort to the most animalistic type of arguement. your not concerned about understanding why they wrote the song, your just concerned about winning the arguement, and thats why i called you self absorbed. they wrote that song way before you even became a cop, times were different, so who knows what was going on, especially in LA. if they never wrote it, he might of not even became famous and might of did something ACTUALLY illegal instead. im not a cop hater, im not a rap hater, i was trying to help you understand why he wrote the song, but somewhere along the lines this turned into a me vs you thing, so im not wasting anymore time on it.
**some other guy replys (which is probably him under a different screen name)**...
Mr x. It looks to me like you spoilt for this. The guy gave you a chance but your posts got ugly. He's not spitting any nonsense at you at all and its you who certainly aint arguing reasonably, most especially with that crap about his being in a government gang. !!! Come on, youre grasping at straws and it really is a ridiculous thing to bring up. You might want to rethink about whose spitting nonsense! He's given you structure and valid points which you dont seem to be able to counter. I'm a parent too and if he's who he says he is and does what he says he does, then we need more people like him and less people like you attacking him. I've seen other people try to ridicule him and get all spiteful and such with him. He starts out just fine, but when people turn nasty, he goes ahead and does what he says he will do and he wipes the floor with them. It was you who got nasty towards him, so he just responded. And you know, I couldnt care when it was written, if I heard a song called **** the veterinary surgeons today, then its just as relevant to me today as the day it was written and I'd be just as mad as him. The content doesnt matter, the title of the song and the hate in it is all Id need. If it gets played today its just as relevant as it was back then. I believe he gave you an argument for that which you ignored. Are you saying that the songs now irrelevant because of its age and because Ice Cube has moved on? You realize Ice Cube gets paid every time that song gets played? So its relevant to him. Its also relevant to me, when I hear it, because of one of my relatives careers. I find it utterly offensive. Its a vile song with nothing but hate in it. Why should anyone try to understand it. Look at the title. Thats a blanket covering, and if its played today its a blanket covering for any cop, even for those in academy. Cant you see that?
**since i was paying no attention he then sends me a message on another message board (which got deleted) telling me he has replied on the ice cube board and also calls me a drug dealer and stupid shit, but here was his reply on the ice cube board)**...
Is there anything I can add to danielfour's, Mr X?
M-mmm, yes, I think there is...
I don't presume to be better than anyone. That's your assumption.
Can you tell me where my "nonsense" is? You've not actually told me. I've given you structured responses, yet you just ignore them and please, when it comes down to "nonsense", you need look no further than the 'governments gang' "nonsense" you wrote. But at least I was able to respond to what you wrote. You make no argument at all, you respond to nothing I say, so it's no argument. It's one sided because you choose not to respond to it - something you chased me to another board for - and it's certainly not "nonsense". Please demonstrate what *is* nonsense and then I'll tell you why it isn't, unless it wasn't blindingly obvious anyway, but hey, I help people who struggle with basic concepts every day. No need bring up the 'governments gang', I think I covered that one. Oh, sorry, that was *your* nonsense!
It's you, by your responses that leads me to believe it's you who's looking for the argument. I believe I tried to ignore your stalking me and your argumentative approach, yet having instigated it, it is *you* who carried it on, so I responded likewise. If you can't cope with that, you need to find someone of the same capacity as yourself. So no, no argument, infact, there's no argument required with floor wiping, as as you've demonstrated yourself, you can't come back to a single structured response I've given you, have you? So your assumption of my being "self absorbed" is formed out of your own ignorance, wouldn't you say? Yet again, it matters *not* when the song was written, if it's played today, its just as relevant as the day it was released. As daniel said, it's relevant to IC because he makes money on it every time it's played, so in that alone, it retains every bit of its relevance. When did *you* first hear it? Becasue it's influenced you. So how long after its release did it become "relevant" to you? Or does that somehow not matter?
"if they never wrote it"? Well they *did* write it. That's why I'm here and why you stalked me to another board to get a response out of me, so that's a kinda dumb thing to say.
I don't need understanding as to why he wrote it. It rains, I get wet, I'll blame the police, not the gangs, drugs or guns with which I surround myself. But hold on... I can surely blame the police for that too!?
No, YOU stalked me to another site to get a response out of me, and now you've got it, you don't like it. There IS no you vs me. And because you don't like what you've created for yourself, because you have no response to what I've come back to you with, you've decided you'll duck out under the guise of "not going to waste any more time on it"? Go on then, put your tail between your legs and scuttle off. Come back when you've grown some balls, if you have the courage about you, or continue your diatribe from afar, from behind the faceless anonymity your computer provides. You came to me, remember, you copped the attitude, you couldn't come back with a response to a single thing I put up and now you've decided you're "not going to waste any more time on it"? How about you consider the consequences of what you say before you open your mouth? Man, you wonder why you consider a stop by the police as harassment? My attitude to people I stop, is mirrored to that of the theirs, but if their attitude stinks, I at least have the decency to give them an opportunity to correct it. If not, they squeal harrassment where these *is* none. So maybe you should consider that.
And youre not a cop hater? Act like it then, or do you just want to let a little steam off to one of your so called harassers from behind your computer screen?
** my reply**...
this is the last reply ill ever write to you. your right that i do ignore alot of what your saying, and thats because i quite honestly dont care enough to read it all and reflect on it, i skim through it but alot of it seems biased. my mind has already been made up on how the police operate, right from the very first post i had my mind made up. if you need to be reminded, heres what i think about the police: they are human beings, some are good, some are bad. some catch killers and child molesters, some ARE killers and child molesters. from the very first post the only intent i had was on helping you understand the song, your response was "i am performing a service in which i get paid for", that is exactly what ice cube was doing. people were agreeing with the statement "F the police" way before the song was ever recorded, so capitilizing on it was his way of LEAVING a life of crime. if NWA never recorded an album full of shock material, they would of never got rich, and probably would of added more to the california crime rate. you then claimed "people have to pay for their actions theyve made" (or something like that), well if thats the case, i guess the song F the police was the police's way of paying for all the wrong they've done (cutting off hippies hair, beating innocent civilians, spraying them with fire hoses, tazing, pepper spraying, you name it). what has ice cube had to pay for making the song? he got rich and famous, and i think that put a chip on your shoulder. if he ever called the police, and they chose not to protect him, they'd be bad cops for not doing THEIR JOB, their supposed to protect whoever calls them regardless of the persons personality. would i look down on ice cube if he called the cops? of course not, he's still one of the best rappers in the business. he wrote that song when he was 18, and wrote it deliberatly to offend any cop it applied to, if you feel like it applies to you, then who am i to disagree? but maybe ask yourself why it applies to you. also ask yourself why you are offended by something an 18 year old would say, it's just a kid's opinion, right? my uncle is a cop, and ive never heard him complain about the song, maybe he's mature enough to know it doesnt directly apply to him or maybe he's too busy feeling good about any real difference he's made in the world. if you feel unnapreciated, maybe find a new line of work, or listen to the positive feedback from the people that call you to do your job, thats all i can suggest. as for me, i dont hate cops, but i dont love them either, they are just strangers to me. same with the song, i dont hate it, but i dont love it either. im an ice cube fan, but even i know it's not his best song. i can think for myself, and if anyone was dumb enough to say F the police just because ice cube said it, i wouldnt agree with them either, but im not gonna just go out and agree with whatever YOU say either, because how would that be any different? you can think whatever you want to think about me, i dont give a goddamn about my online reputation.
on a side note: reading your first post again makes me laugh you said.. "Awsome. Great lyrics. Inspirational. You must see yourself as quite the role model? Or perhaps even some sort of 'prophet' to those who like to call themselves 'soldiers' but would never, EVER contemplate actually joining the military because they have to do, like, u-uuh, proper soldier stuff! Discipline? Na-aaaaaaaaah! " did you know another rapper by the name of ice-t served 4 years in the military and then went on to write a song called COP KILLER which caused a nationwide controvery? he was even angrier than ice cube, he wasnt just saying F you, he was screaming about killing cops. im not saying i agree with the song at all, im just saying your post is ironic and ignorent.
and then theres this... "What would be even sweeter would be if I was ever around when you shouted for help. After listening to that, you're on your own, pal."
how is THAT justifying your wage? my tax dollars dont go to THAT. thats a bad cop if i ever heard of one.
i guess your never going to understand the song, or if you do understand it now, you'd never admit that you understand it because you'd see that as losing the arguement. so i guess im done. i've made all the points i've needed to make, i hope you've taken something out of this to reflect on.
and to the other guy: i dont think ice cubes getting any money every time f the police gets played because thats why he left NWA and rutheless records in the first place, jerry heller was screwing him over, and he wasnt making any money. the only one who made any money from NWA was eazy-e and jerry heller, and thats cause they owned ruthless records, even when dr. dre started death row records he was sighned as exclusive artist to ruthless records, so dr. dre had to give 10 percent of his profits from the chronic album to eazy-e. im pretty sure ice cube doesnt get any royalties unless its music from his solo career
**his reply**...
Wow. You know, I'm really impressed with your reply and you hit a couple of chords. Why couldn't you have said it like that from the start? Some of it I vehemently disagree with, some I grugingly have to agree with. I'm going to reply to it properly, when I get the chance to, but now you've spoken with a bit of balance and not come out swiping, I hope you might reply to it. If you don't wish to, then so be it.
**my reply**...
let me correct myself: this will be the last reply ill ever make.
im glad my opinion is valued, im sorry if at any point you felt like i disrespected you. ice cube may have wrote f the police, but he's also written songs discouraging crime. if your interested in hearing any, check these out, they are good songs...
"what can i do?" a song about a drug dealer ending up in prison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYcpjpsg_jg
"lil ass g" a song about the wanna-be gangster little kids that end up in prison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnzFUvfq6Hk
"ghetto vet" a song about a gangbanger that gets shot and paralyzed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLmodGd7utE
i'd say he has an equal ammount of songs that do not glamorize crime as he does songs that do not glamorize authority. if you choose to only focus on the ones that relate more to you, thats your decision, but if you want to really understand who ice cube is, just check out more songs of his. if you have your mind made up about who he is already, then theres nothing i can do to convince you.
if you are still feeling like the police department is being picked on, here is are some songs he did about other occupations...
"alive on arrival" a song about a man who has been shot, waited in the hospital to see a doctor for hours, and dies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwb31R4d8eY
"record company pimpin" a song about how the record companys take advantage of their artists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tObtMwX4S-w
"black korea" a song about korean storekeepers assuming he's about to rob them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LNbxlKhK3A
"i wanna kill sam" a song about how ice cube wants to kill uncle sam, it explains why he feels so angry at the country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVz5Zgi_eaY
here are some songs he did that are about police, but not directly about officers.
"ghetto bird" a song about police helicopters...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzIkfVd-CzI
"3 strikes you in" a song about the three strike law in the metaphore of a baseball game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddbN9sHLJn8
"penitentary" this is a where he examines a few prejudice reasons why people would want a man in prison, but at the same time eximines a few legitimate reasons why the man would end up in prison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDZtt5ZM47A
but if you are going to judge ice cube for his songwriting, i'd atleast say to judge him by the album: the predator. it's without a doubt his most opinionated album.
heres a song from it, if you disagree with it i wont bother arguing with you, because atleast your debating a song he put thought into rather than just something he did for money. if i were to judge ice cube for something he did for money, i would be on here offended at movies like "torque" and "are we there yet"
heres the song...
"when will they shoot?" a song about how at the time he was expecting somebody to kill him for his opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1lUhfsdeyo
heres another song i'd reccomend to you that coinsidently has ice cube on it.
this one is called "people dont believe (hand of the dead body)" i believe the rapper scarface makes some valid points about gangster rap. listen to it and reflect on it if you want, at least they took time to put thought into it, so it'd be something worth reflecting on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkltsgNZCyg
and finally, another song by scarface called "now i feel ya" this song really moved me personally, this song is how alot of people live, i've even had times in my life that were like this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pNzviB_dP0
these are all just songs i like and appreciate, i do not agree with every single thing he is saying, but i love the freedom of speech and also love other elements of the songs too (the beat, the structure of the lyrics, the similies and metaphores, the slang words, ect), if you want to listen to them it'd be cool, if not, thats cool too.
it is clear that ice cube is easily more influenced by malcom x than by martin luther king. if i had to choose between the two, i am easily more influenced by martin luther king. martin luther king believed we should judge a person based on the content of his charecter, and not by the color of his skin, that is exactly why i do not say F the police, i judge the police by their charecter and not by their uniform. martin luther king was without a doubt judged by racist people, and he rose above it with a message of peace, and by doing so has become a revalutionary icon. so when anyone says F the police, you are being judged for your uniform, if you can find the peace in your heart and rise above it and help someone in need out regardless of how they may have judged you in the past, you are as good as martin luther king by my standards. martin luther king understood why malcom x was so angry, but martin luther king had very different ideas and hope for americas future, and thats not much different than why i can understand where ice cube is coming from, but at the same time not agree with every single one of his views.
and lets just say the scenerio from your first post took place. ice cube needed your help for whatever reason (stolen car, kidnapped family member, intruder, ect) and you chose not to help him. his opinion of police would not change at all, and it might only cause the tension between you two to get more intense. but lets say you DID help him, you may very well be the officer who single-handedly caused ice cube to release an official apology to any undeserving police officer he may have offended in the past, or possibly even record a song called "thank god for police". if he chose not to pay you any gratitude, then that is just ignorence you can do nothing about, but you can at least take pride in staying loyal to your cause.
if you listen to more recent ice cube albums, you will find that he has calmed down ALOT. he does alot of party songs these days that have nothing to do with crime, police, or politics. the reason for this? maybe he feels that america has changed and that he is satisfied with the outcome, or maybe he is just plain tired of making an arguement that wont make any difference. it's up to you, me, and everyone else who may be reading this to reflect on society and be somebody that can make a difference in the world.
it's been fun debating this, have a good one.
**his reply**...
Ok Mr X, you know, you chased me to another site to get a response from me? I give you that response yet you say "i do ignore alot of what your saying, and thats because i quite honestly dont care enough to read it all and reflect on it, i skim through it but alot of it seems biased." Well, what did you contact me in the first place for? You badger me for a response yet you ignore it, you don't care to read it and it seems biased? So come on, you tell me, what was the point in you chasing me for a response from me in the first place??? And what the hell is the bias? I've given you my point of view and you don't care to read it, so you'd clearly only rather stick with your one sided point of view? WHY then, did you chase me to another board for a response?
How many times have I told you? You don't need to help me "understand" the song because I take what I need from the title and the chorus. It's fairly clear to me. I might find a guy beating his wife and sure, he might have been a kept little man, but no amount of understanding changes anything. He beat his wife. It's right there, that's all I need. Or do you mean that I get paid, Cube gets paid, so that entitles him to write such a derogatory song and 25 odd years later, it's still being played? That has rather long reaching consequences, wouldn't you say? And for the kid who's ten now and hears it for the first time in five or so years, it's going to be just as new to him then as the day it was released. And he's gonna take from it whatever he wants. Some *will* be influenced by it.
"he got rich and famous, and i think that put a chip on your shoulder." Don't be ridiculous. I'd get a chip on my shoulder about all sorts of sports stars and movie stars if that were the case. "if he ever called the police, and they chose not to protect him, they'd be bad cops for not doing THEIR JOB, their supposed to protect whoever calls them regardless of the persons personality." Yeah, well there you go, you make your bed, you lie in it. F me? Ok then, good luck. What are you after? Absolute perfection? A cop is just as human as the next guy. They have families, go on holidays, get drunk and go to baseball games just like anyone else. They bleed the same too, as you might have seen in Oakland last week and they'll leave their families behind for a long time for just turning up to do their job. After what? A basic traffic stop? The same thing you find so "harassing"? So I'm sorry, but I have human traits, and yes, as far as I'm concerned, Cube's on his own. Unfortunately, I also know that Lieutenants and Captains won't allow the rank and file to put those views into practice. The captain can sit behind his desk and tell the lieutenant to suck it up. The lieutenant tells his sergeants to suck it up and then the sergeants tell everyone else to suck it up and do their job. If I were a Lieutenant or a captain, I'd be telling those under my command to suck it up and get on with it, because that's what's required. I know that. But in my current position, he's on his own. But if I were to turn up at a car wreck and Cube was in it, if he needed immediate medical care, he'd get it. If he was ok, I'd say "Hey, you're Ice Cube, right?" I'd hear his response and say "Yeah, I love your music, man, most especially 'F the Police'..." Unfortunately, I'd have to do what I'm supposed to do. "how is THAT justifying your wage? my tax dollars dont go to THAT. thats a bad cop if i ever heard of one." So sorry for being human. But I think, if you've bothered reading this, you'll have seen what I'll *actually* have done.
"he wrote that song when he was 18, and wrote it deliberatly to offend any cop it applied to, if you feel like it applies to you, then who am i to disagree? but maybe ask yourself why it applies to you."
When he made it makes no difference. Kids are influenced by it today. "but maybe ask yourself why it applies to you." Yeah, hey, I'm a tax accountant, this song bears no relevance to me at all, but I figured I'd just stick my oar in. Why it applies to me??? U-uuh, the *title*???
Whether you hate the song or not is completely irrelevant. Your opinion of Cube, my opinion of Cube, all his other songs, everything he's ever done is completely irrelevant. It's the title of the song, the fact that it's played, the influence it's had on you and the influence it will have on others in the future.
"if you feel unnapreciated, maybe find a new line of work" Either you're being stupid or you're trying to be insulting.
No, I've never heard Ice - Ts Cop Killer. I'd most likely have exactly the same opinion of him as I do Ice Cube if I did. I didnt realise he'd done his time in the military, and I'm surprised he wrote such a song *after* he'd done it, but no, I can't say I've ever heard it.
"i guess your never going to understand the song, or if you do understand it now, you'd never admit that you understand it because you'd see that as losing the arguement. so i guess im done. i've made all the points i've needed to make, i hope you've taken something out of this to reflect on."
Understaning it has never been my aim. Everything I need is in the title an what I heard on the radio. This is no argument. How can it possibly be when you ignore everything I respon to you with? And with that, you're "done"? So all you've done is pump your opinion at me and completely ignore what I've responded with being on the receiving end of the song. You said it yourself "i do ignore alot of what your saying, and thats because i quite honestly dont care enough to read it all and reflect on it, i skim through it but alot of it seems biased." To me, that's increibly ignorant. You bagered me into responding to you, you've ignore what I've said and just given me your opinion and not had the common decency about yourself to see it from another point of view. I had the decency to respond to you, since you stalked me to another site for it and I responded to the points you brought up. Yet you ignored or couldnt be bothered reading what I responded with. Don't you feel that that's
just ignorant? Again, why di you push for a response if you din't want to read it?
"im glad my opinion is valued" No, your opinion isn't value. You've given me it and in your ignorance you've chosen to not even read my responses, so you will remain ignorant. "im sorry if at any point you felt like i disrespected you." Doesn't bother me at all. If it did, I shouldn't be doing what I do. If I was to get it from lieutenants or sergeants, that's one thing, but from you? No. "ice cube may have wrote f the police, but he's also written songs discouraging crime." Sorry, never heard them, they don't seem to get the same air time as others. And no, sorry, not interested, not my type of music.
"if you choose to only focus on the ones that relate more to you, thats your decision," Yes, thankyou, it is. "but if you want to really understand who ice cube is," U-uuh, no, I don't. If I did, I'd be looking up every writer of every song I ever heard. My music tastes are completely different, yet for who I like, I don't try to understand them. Hey, I can drive a car. I don't know how it works, I'm not interested in how it works, I just need one to drive. "if you have your mind made up about who he is already," I'm not interested in who he is. Never have been.
"if you are still feeling like the police department is being picked on," U-uuh, *no*, just that one song, really. See, this is why you're ignorant. I haven't gon on about Cube or any other music, buit since you don't bother to read what you pushed me to write, you wouldn't know that, would you?
See? No, probably not... "but if you are going to judge ice cube for his songwriting, i'd atleast say to judge him by the album: the predator. it's without a doubt his most opinionated album." NOT. INTERESTED. Had the decency to read what you wrote though. If youd spent a little more time reading what I responded to you with, you wouldn't have had to type out all this completely irrelevant garbage.
"heres a song from it,..." No, absolutely not interested.
"heres another song i'd reccomend" Still not interested. Never have been...
"and finally, another song" Still no, try as you might. Title of this thread?
"it is clear that ice cube is easily more influenced by malcom x than by martin luther king." Why? Not why the above, just "why"? Don't you get it. I don't deal with it, I'm not interested in it, I just deal with the end result. I do not care about someones influences or their upbringing, it's the end result where I become involved. "if i had to choose between the two," I am really deeply uninterested, but again, at least I had the decency to actually read what you wrote and, indeed, respond to it. The title of the thread doesnt have anything to do with Martin Luther King.
"if you listen to more recent ice cube albums, you will find that he has calmed down ALOT." I DON'T CARE. One song, when he was an angry little man, THAT'S IT!
"it's been fun debating this," Really, where's the debate? "i do ignore alot of what your saying, and thats because i quite honestly dont care enough to read it all and reflect on it, i skim through it but alot of it seems biased." Debates tend to have more than one point of view!
Next time you don't want to read someone elses point of view, try not pushing them for one, unless of course you enjoy being ignorant.
**my reply**...
i wanted to help you understand the song, you dont want to understand the song.
- stalemate.
i do not sympathize with the harsh words the police are using on that song (pull your goddamn ass over right now!, shut the F up, im taking your black ass to jail!) and you do not sympathize with the harsh words ice cube has used on the song (f'in with me cause im a minority, it's gonna be a bloodbath of cops dying in la) - stalemate.
i stalked you, you stalked me. - stalemate.
i want you to do your job, you dont want to do your job, but if you do it regardless of how rude ice cube (or anyone else) may have been, i feel like spending time on these posts have been worth it.
i've said what i've had to say, and if that is the final outcome, then theres nothing i can do to prevent you from making your decisions. i have nothing but sympathy for the cops who died in oakland the other day, i also have nothing but sympathy for oscar grant or any other victim like him. now that i think about it, there are no brutal criminals or brutal cops, only brutal people. there is also a huge difference between saying something and doing something, so if from the very start all you were doing was trying to make a point, then point taken. if you were dead serious, it was up to me to try to prevent something like that from happening. that is why i "stalked" you to another board.
i dont judge ice cube for something he wrote when he was 18, because i might aswell judge picasso for a scribble he made on a napkin. kids may be influenced by that song, but if theyre that easily influenced, theyre gonna be influenced by anything like that that comes along, including movies like die hard, dirty harry, or the show cops.
on a side note: you once claimed they are still playing the song all the time, im almost positive they dont play it on the radio because clear channel wants to maintain a clean image, and since there has never been a music video of it, mtv is definatly not playing it. im pretty sure if people are listening to it, they bought it on a cd or are subscribing to a specific satalite radio station. you also claimed shows with racial humor have been done away with, i disagree. shows like all in the family and sanford and son are constantly showed on a channel called tv land, while other shows like south park and family guy are all over tv, you could also manage to buy dvds or recordings of these shows and watch them whenever you like, which goes the same for F the police.
this time i really mean it, i will not reply to another topic, i just feel like ive said more than i had to say, and i really should be cleaning my house or doing laundry right now. so if i made any kind of valid point in all this, i feel like it was well worth it, you've made points too and to be honest im just too lazy to reply to them but you've opened my mind up a little bit more, your time has not been wasted in this discussion. i dont agree with alot of what your saying, but i sympathize with what you go through. peace.
**his reply**...
Are you for real? You really haven't read anything I posted to you, have you?
Not interested in "understanding" song when title it says all. You want me to do my job but you squeal "harassment" if it's done to you. I love my job, I do it very well, thankyou. You stalked me, I responded, you ignored it and so I had to resort to your level. You've had your say and not bothered even reading what it was that you wanted from me in the first place. You just wanted to push your opinion on me. So no discussion, you weren't able, therefore no stalemate, you just remain ignorant. I'll go to bed to sleep, get up, go to work, do what I do very well, listen to some other little man squeal "harassment" because he doesn't like being caught, get home, have a beer, go to bed.
But you'll still be ignorant.
Don't ask me why, just read what you previously couldn't be bothered to. You might find enlightenment.
**my reply**..
i guess that makes two of us then. your not interested in understanding the song and your going to make up your own mind about how you do your job, therefore, no reason to continue this. i doubt ice cube is ever going to read this, so it was kinda pointless from the start.
edit: however, i just noticed you wrote the original post in 2007, and if by some chance ice cube WAS reading this back then, his new song may very well be a direct response to you. if you were looking for a direct response from him, this video is about the closest you'll get...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzeZhCt5PVA
as for not taking interest in the other songs ive posted, but claiming that F the police offends every ounce of you, well, i really dont see that being much different than a drug addict getting arrested and then claiming you are harrassing him. you claim ice cube has offended you, but by ignoring alot of those other songs that deal with why he would say F the police, you are not taking a look in the mirror, which is kind of like a drug addict not getting why the police keep "harrassing" him. and i especially see a resembelance with your "stalking" accusations.
if you want to understand why i only skim through alot of your posts, ill give you an example. i posted a link to a song ice cube wrote entitled "us" a song he intended the black community to listen to, reflect on, and change some of their ways. the ONLY reason i posted that was to show that ice cube is not made of negativity and is capable of doing something positive. you responded...
"And come on man, some communities will never get it together. Call it any 'ism' you want. But who is it who runs the gas stations, the convenience stores, wears the suits and who is it who robs them at gunpoint? If you're thinking it, then the same 'ism' applies to you, right? Look at the Olympics though, the same 'ism's apply there, don't they? From the swimming pool and cycle track to the 100m sprint. You notice any differences or do you want to keep your eyes shut? That doesn't come from a bad attitude, but from physical capabilities. Some peoples bodies can't deal well with swimming, others can't deal with sprinting or heavyweight boxing. Instead of burying our heads, we need to accept that in general terms, people are different. Oil and vinegar are liquids, but they don't mix, no matter how hard you try. Some people are conditioned - *every* gangsta drew the short straw in Compton, right? Yawn! But other people got their act together and stopped blaming other people or circumstances for their miserable lives. We have cops, marines, soldiers, sailors, airmen, paramedics, coast guards, architects, industrialists, zoo keepers, artists, film crew, mechanics, any line of work you can think of who could have gone down the route of blaming someone else and having to resort to selling drugs to feed their kids, but these choices were made early on. The made their beds and they're lying in them, very comfortably. I don't generally have much call to stop them, but the people I *do* have to interract with, as part of what I do, don't like it because I generally interrupt their illegal activities, whether I agree with the law as it stands, or not, and they protest at 'harassment' and "Are you only stopping me becasue I'm..." because they don't like to be caught. Most people I'd previously mentioned accept this as they realize I don't have a crystal ball to work with. The collateral damage is that some people don't realize it and object to us trying to do our jobs. They often fail the 'attitude tests' so they're not going to get a decent or understanding experience, because they've already decide it ain't gonna be that way. "I'm being harassed by the police again" Generally though, that's from teenagers and kids in their early 20s. Is that another 'ism' or a fair observation perhaps? Can I ask you, Mr X, where you fall into? "
a F-ing NOVEL. a long reply that had very little to do with what i was talking about. im not saying its your fault for misunderstanding, but your train of thought is all over the place and unrelated to what its a response to.
another example: i posted a link to a song called "a bird in the hand" a song ice cube wrote about a new father that had to resort to selling drugs because staying legitimate was not paying the bills or feeding the family. my intent when i posted this song was to help you understand that some of these criminals you arrest are doing it for survival. your response...
"And Ice Cube might have written all sorts of songs, none of which I've taken any interest in, unless of course I realize it refers to me and people like me.
Maybe Mr Bush should start a thread to defend himself, but then, he had a big audience at the time. I just get to listen to crap on the radio and sit and take abuse from idiots who think it's the coolest thing to do to become clones of the rich guys who pump their influences at them. Except, I doubt those idiots are quite so rich. They just line other peoples pockets. Stupid people doing stupid things with guns like to hold them high and on their side. You've seen it in every gang movie, at least. Why? That won't give a well aimed shot at all. But that's the way they have to do it because it looks the part because they have to emulate the big earners they see in the music videos. If they watched the news and saw how the army or the cops do it, they'd get better results, but that's not how their 'gangsta' lords and masters do it, and they certainly don't want to do it in a proficient military manner. Oh no, they have to have their pants around their knees with the pistol grip sticking over their belt in order to look just like the next guy with the same master. It actually makes me laugh, all these clones talking the same garbage in the same way from one town to the next. Do they walk in that stoopid way to stop their pants from falling down, d'you know? You know where wearing your pants low comes from, don't you? Prison. It has a meaning too. I'd pull them pants up if I were you!"
why would you want the criminals to get better results with their guns? you want their victims shot more accuratly? it seems like your saying "im better than them because i was in the army" which i find to be biased. thinking your above any gang member simply because you were in the military or because you are a cop is biased in my opinion, and that is why i posted the government gang post, to try to bring you down to earth and not think your above anyone else simply because of your occupation, because an occupation or a gang title does not define you as a human being and does not define your actions as a person. then you go on a rant about pants, which i find unnecesarry. your basicly saying that rap stars have influenced all these gangsters into doing crime. rap doesnt influence selling drugs and gangbanging, money does. which is exactly why i posted the song that you had no interest in listening to. i got your point, so i had no need to read all of it (even though i now have and still have recieved the same point i did as i originally skimmed through it). the reason i disagree with your point is because crime and gangs have been around before rap, and if gangster rap never existed, crime would still be here.
and also, if you want there to be a song about good cops so bad, get off your ass and WRITE ONE. if you have time to write all this bull$#!+ on here, you have time to write song lyrics. in this day and age recording a song is easier than ever, and marketing it should be no trouble either since you'd have the corner stone of the market and unlimited access to the internet. if you feel as if you have no singing skills or skills with musical instruments, you can try to make a rap song since you believe it requires no skill whatsoever.
if the only reason you've been responding to me is to make me look like a fool, then i give you permission to start a new thread on the ice cube board insulting me any way you want, we'll see if anyone reads it and agrees with it, chances are no one will care, including me. i dont care about my online reputation. good luck in life and good bye.
**and just for fun i made 1 more bonus reply**...
heres a story you might be interested in also, an officer in dallas stopped a man rushing to the hospital to see his dying mother in law, drew a gun on him, argued with him for 13 minutes, and by the time he let him go, the woman had died. their reported conversation went like this...
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032609dnmetcopstop.3e9c080.html
"As he rushed his family to the hospital, 26-year-old NFL running back Ryan Moats rolled through a red light. A Dallas police officer pulled their SUV over outside the emergency room.
Moats and his wife explained that her mother was dying inside the hospital.
"You really want to go through this right now?" Moats pleaded. "My mother-in-law is dying. Right now!"
The officer, 25-year-old Robert Powell, was unmoved. He spent long minutes writing Moats a ticket and threatened him with arrest.
"I can screw you over," the officer told Moats. "I'd rather not do that."
The scene last week, captured by a dashboard video camera, prompted apologies and the promise of an investigation from Dallas police officials Wednesday.
"There were some things that were said that were disturbing, to say the least," said Lt. Andy Harvey, a police spokesman.
Moats' mother-in-law, Jonetta Collinsworth, was struggling at 45 with breast cancer that had spread throughout her body. Family members rushed to her bedside from as far away as California.
On March 17, the night of their incident with Powell, the Moatses had gone to their Frisco home to get some rest. Around midnight, they received word that they needed to hurry back to the hospital if they wanted to see Collinsworth before she died.
The couple, along with Collinsworth's father and an aunt, jumped into the SUV and headed back toward Baylor Regional Medical Center at Plano. They exited the Dallas North Tollway at Preston Road, just down the street from the hospital.
Moats turned on his hazard lights. He stopped at a red light, where, he said, the only nearby motorist signaled for him to go ahead. He went through.
Powell, watching traffic from a hidden spot, flipped on his lights and sirens. In less than a minute, he caught up to the SUV and followed for about 20 more seconds as Moats found a parking spot outside the emergency room.
Moats' wife, 27-year-old Tamishia, was the first out. Powell yelled at her to get back in.
"Get in there!" he yelled. "Let me see your hands!"
"My mom is dying," she explained.
Powell was undeterred.
"I saw in his eyes that he really did not care," Tamishia Moats said Wednesday.
Tamishia Moats and her great-aunt ignored the officer and headed into the hospital. Ryan Moats stayed behind with the father of the dying woman.
"I waited until no traffic was coming," Moats told Powell, explaining his passage through the red light. "I got seconds before she's gone, man."
Powell demanded his license and proof of insurance. Moats produced his license but said he didn't know where the insurance paperwork was.
"Just give me a ticket or whatever," he said, beginning to sound exasperated and a little argumentative.
"Shut your mouth," Powell told him. "You can cooperate and settle down, or I can just take you to jail for running a red light."
There was more back and forth.
"If you're going to give me a ticket, give me a ticket."
"Your attitude says that you need one."
"All I'm asking you is just to hurry up."
Powell began a lecture.
"If you want to keep this going, I'll just put you in handcuffs," the officer said, "and I'll take you to jail for running a red light."
Powell made several more points, including that the SUV was illegally parked. Moats replied "Yes sir" to each.
"Understand what I can do," Powell concluded. "I can tow your truck. I can charge you with fleeing. I can make your night very difficult."
"I understand," Moats responded. "I hope you'll be a great person and not do that."
Hospital security guards arrived and told Powell that the Moatses' relative really was upstairs dying.
Powell spent several minutes inside his squad car, in part to check Moats for outstanding warrants. He found none.
Another hospital staffer came out and spoke with a Plano police officer who had arrived.
"Hey, that's the nurse," the Plano officer told Powell. "She said that the mom's dying right now, and she's wanting to know if they can get him up there before she dies."
"All right," Powell replied. "I'm almost done."
As Moats signed the ticket, Powell continued his lecture.
"Attitude's everything," he said. "All you had to do is stop, tell me what was going on. More than likely, I would have let you go."
It had been about 13 minutes.
Moats and Collinsworth's father went into the hospital, where they found Collinsworth had died, with her daughter at her side.
The Moatses, who are black, said Wednesday that they can't help but think that race might have played a part in how Powell, who is white, treated them.
"I think he should lose his job," said Ryan Moats, a Dallas native who attended Bishop Lynch High School and now plays for the Houston Texans.
Powell, hired in January 2006, did not return a call for comment. Assistant Chief Floyd Simpson said Powell told police officials that he believed that he was doing his job. He has been re-assigned to dispatch pending an investigation.
"When people are in distress, we should come to the rescue," said Simpson. "We shouldn't further their distress."
Collinsworth was buried Saturday in Louisiana. "
this is exactly why people get so upset at the police, even though he was only doing his job, he denied a man the right to see a dying family member only so that he could prove a juvenile point. that is morally wrong and disgusting. when does keeping the streets safe turn into facism? when do cops become gestapos? the man DID tell him what was going on in the first place, theres no reason the cop couldnt of went in the hospital with him and finished the ticket in there. its up to people like me to convince people like you not to act like people like him, but since my opinion is not valued, i guess this means nothing to you. between your juvenile state of mind and stories like this, i am leaning more and more towards making F the police a motto of mine.
**the end**...for now
if you read this whole thing, leave me some feedback
*his original post*...
You'll have to excuse me, I prefer Motley Crue and Metallica to other forms of 'music' so have only just heard one of your tracks.
I didn't hear it because I like it, I hasten to add, but owing to the profession I'm in, I was curious to hear '*Beep* the police'.
Awsome. Great lyrics. Inspirational. You must see yourself as quite the role model? Or perhaps even some sort of 'prophet' to those who like to call themselves 'soldiers' but would never, EVER contemplate actually joining the military because they have to do, like, u-uuh, proper soldier stuff! Discipline? Na-aaaaaaaaah!
However, since you're now worth a bundle of cash, live in a big house, drive a flash car and can light your cigars with $100 dollar bills, please, do tell, who do you call when someone tries to break into your home or steal your car? I'd of course like to believe it would be your 'homies' since you have such clear distaste for the police. Except, I can't help thinking, now that you've got yourself out of that particular, how can I say it, less than desirable part of town, and the attraction of all your old 'friends' might not have the same pull it used to, you'd choose to call those you vilified the most.
This is most probably very old news and was quite probably swept under the carpet years ago, but I've just heard it and I'd be curious to know, most especially if I'm ever around at one of your glitzy premiers when you're with some of your new found more... 'glamourous' friends. What would be even sweeter would be if I was ever around when you shouted for help. After listening to that, you're on your own, pal.
*i followed him to another message board and left this as a reply*...
if you listen to the song, the police are harrassing him for all sorts of irrelevent reasons. im sure if the police treated everyone fair, nwa would of never felt the need to make a song called *beep* the police. thats why they never made a song called *beep* the fire department or *beep* the construction workers, ect. the truth is, alot of cops DO abuse their authority. alot ARE bullys. alot are ALSO heros. some are pigs, some are heros. im sure ice cube has respect for any cop that does his job by the books, but im also sure he was much too familiar with rodney-king type incidents during the year he wrote the song (1986). it still goes on today, if you dont believe me, just search for OSCAR GRANT anywhere on youtube, you will find a video of a cop shooting a handcuffed kid execution-style. the cop that shot oscar grant was RELEASED on 3 million dollars bail, who put the money up to release such a scumbag? im not sure, but it wouldnt surprise me at all if a few other cops on his force chipped in on it. and THAT is the type of police NWA made the song about. *beep* THEM.
and also, if your gonna judge a person based on something they wrote 23 years ago, you need to grow up.
** his reply**...
Re: '*Beep* the police'. Is that so?
by nickle98 (Thu Mar 12 2009 06:13:06)
Ignore this User | Report Abuse Reply
UPDATED Thu Mar 12 2009 11:02:53
In my line of work, people tell me all the time that I'm harassing them. Their irrelevant reasons being possession of illegal weapons, drugs, you name it. The last guy I "harassed" had a crack pipe and used needles on him has one impending for robbery and he told me I was harassing him. I told him that I wouldn't need to even speak to him if he didn't take drugs and rob people of their property to feed his habit, so sorry Bob, but it goes with the territory in which you choose to live. That song I take as an attack on me and what I do. I don't go around abusing my authority, I go around trying to justify the wage I'm paid by doing the best I can for the people I work for - like it or not, that means YOU - using common sense and discretion whenever I can. So I take this song as really offensive. There's abuse in EVERY line of work, from the guy skimming from the till right up to Presidents. Yet I only ever hear the same tire old argument - blame the police for everything in my life going wrong! It rains, I get wet, blame the police! Look at the name of the band! Aggression and contraversy right there. Where's NWAs song about the guy skimming from the till or of the President who abuses his authority. Oh yeah, they might make a film of it, but you get to choose to watch what you like and I'm gussing you tend not to watch political thrillers, right? But when I have to get involved in an argument, there are always two sides to the story. Only one side of this story has been sold to you. You're not interested in mine and my story will never get the coverage that NWAs does, so I'm only ever going to be listening to stuff from people like you who stalk me around to other boards. IC had his say and his opinion reached everyone who heard it as they sat in their car on their way to work, whether they agreed with it or not. I've had my say on it becasue I take it as a bit of a personal attack. Now I have people like you following me around wanting me to give you my same justification time after time. Read my previous. It's boring going over and over it again and again. "im sure ice cube has respect for any cop that does his job by the books"? Yeah? Well where's NWAs song about it? It wouldn't sell many copies, would it? And it'd ruin their "gangsta" image they've tried so hard to create and sell to you. And it would also have meant that I wouldn't have responded to it and you wouldn't have chase me to other boards. But he DIDN'T make a song about "any cop that does his job by the books", did they, so here YOU are!
Please, do tell me about Rodney King. Tell me about his circumstance. The stuff you most likely don't know though. You don't have to tell me about the cops who beat him. I'd rather see them dealt with appropriately than have a guy with a chip on his shouler tar us all with the same brush and have people like you responding to it.
"and also, if your gonna judge a person based on something they wrote 23 years ago, you need to grow up." What a stupid thing to say. When the song was made is irrelevant. If it's played today as it was then, it still has exactly the same impact. TV shows back in the 60s or 70s which played on racial content which were probably funny then but were accepted by our society, aren't shown again because our society has moved on and, by whatever means, has realized the error of its ways and has accepted that the joke is unacceptable in this day and age. But **** the Police is still being played, and it's had its effect on you, hasn't it? People are still judged on what they did 23 years ago, if you don't believe me, take a look at the prisons. Or this:
"On July 3, 1980, while off duty, Ptlm. Desmond Sherry, of the Cleveland Police Dept., being the dedicated officer he was on duty and off, saw suspicious activity that he felt the need to investigate. During this investigation, he was robbed and killed by James Porter.
Desmond Sherry left behind his wife Connie, a 6 1/2 year old son Michael, and a 3 1/2 year old daughter Theresa.
Porter was sentenced to a minimum of 27 years to life in prison. He is presently incarcerated at the Lake Erie Correctional Institution.
Due to the State of Ohio's definition of life imprisonment, Porter is eligible for parole in March of 2009."
This officers son will now be 35, his daughter 32. They grew up without their daddy because he did the job he was paid to do when he was OFF duty and he paid for it with his life. Why don't you take your argument to his kids? As far as I can recall, Patrolman Sherry didn't get a mention in NWAs diatribe. Where's his song? You make your bed, you lie in it. If you don't want consequences of your actions, police stopping you and 'harassing' you, then don't do the crime. You want to do the crime, then expect me and and my colleagues to do our damndest to stop you. It's easy to call it harassment because you don't like it. Another favourite is: "Are you only stopping me because I'm black?" To which I respond, no, its because of the crack cocaine you've got on you, the concealed weapon you have in your pants, the stolen goods you've got under your shirt, and A-HA, here they are! Are you itching to tell me, Mr X, that I must have *planted* them or would you agree I had reasonable cause to, as you perceive, 'harass' them? My kid and other peoples kids have to grow up in a society that we create. If my job calls for me to upset someone who makes a living by creating misery for other decent, law abiding people, then so be it, I'll do it every day until I retire.
But to do something so high profile which goes everywhere on the radio is going to provoke a reaction, and I heard it and actually listened to is shortly before my original post.
"THAT is the type of police NWA made the song about. *beep* THEM." Garbage. The 'song' is "**** the police". I hear it today and it refers to me and people like me.
If you've got any more questions, read my previous. If you don't like it, well that's too bad, I can't help your opinion. If you can't find an answer to your question, then ask me here. I'll answer you here. Don't go chasing me around. I'm not being unfair to you, I would appreciate the same courtesy.
**my reply**...
im sorry you feel offended by the song, but i feel offended every time im pulled over for driving a cadillac. so we might have spite for eachother, but at least we are only complaining about it through songs or the internet and not just randomly killing eachother. when people treat other people like they are not even human beings, it means they can no longer relate to other human beings, and by default are the ones who are inhuman.
if you really do your job by the books, than i am in full support of you. if you understood my post correctly, i said some cops are heros, some cops are pigs.
alot of people seem to hate cops, when they should take their anger out on the laws instead, and i understand that. so i understand where your coming from, and at the same time i understand where ice cube was coming from. ive been stopped by police many times for looking suspicious, i have friends that have been tazed when it wasnt necesarry. at the same time i know that cops have to react quickly because they deal with lots of confrontations and are very paranoid. so i sympathize with legitimate cops and i sympathize with frustrated civilians.
what i DONT sympathize with are bullys or murderers. if you are neither of those, dont feel offended.
ice cubes written MANY songs about politics and the president, heres a song he recorded in 1991 called "a bird in the hand is worth more than a bush" that is written about the perspective of a father who ends up selling crack because he needs money quick, and staying legitimate wont pay as much as if he sells drugs, check it out here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjYnMTVsxgI
here is another song he recorded called "us" and its his message to the black community to take a look at themselves and get it togeather
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU0nuQfpQWU
**his reply**...
Mr x. You feel offended every time you get pulled over? Why? Do you have the same cop pulling you over every time? If not, you might question what it is about you or your vehicle which prompts individual cops to pull you over every time. Do you have previous, was your vehicle involved? Like I said, some things go with the territory. And I don't have any spite for you. Why would I? I don't have spite for *any* of the people I deal with because it's not my life they impact on, but I deal with them in the best manner that I can, because they impact on other peoples lives. If you've got no record to speak of or you don't have a chip on your shoulder, then my ability to exercize discretion normally gets used. If I were to stop you, you most likely wouldn't refer to it as harassmemt at all, unless of course you cop an attitude as soon as I pull you. It might be handy to realize though, cops don't have a crystal ball with them, they have to seek out and find a lot of their work - which makes them good cops when they find it. Infact, in pulling you they're doing what they're supposed to be doing if they have suspicions. I'd say the officers attitude - as well as yours - goes a long way in determining how the stop is perceived, from the persons stopped perspective. But more often than not, without that crystal ball, no cop knows if you're going to suddenly pull out a gun or a knife, and a cop must maintain control in every situation he deals with, because just like every accountant, he should get to go home at night having finished his work.
Unfortunately, in the circles I work in, a lot of people have absolutely no regard for humanity. They'll abuse it every time, take from it what they can get and live in their own filth with no regard whatsoever about their actions or their effects. But you most probably don't enter those circles, so you won't appreciate that.
You sympathize with both parties? If you can come up with a suggestion as to how I can go about my days work without stopping perfectly decent people, then please, let me know. But there is not a single vehicle I stop which is not commiting some sort of violation and more often than not, that just leads to words of advice, even that a State Trooper might pull them and ticket them for what I haven't!
Yes, I am one of those. You say don't feel offended? How can I not? I do what I do and I have this song played at me. It offends every strand of me. The nasty cops you know about, you see on TV from around the country. Good cops doing good stuff isn't shown on the news in nearly the same way. Let me ask you, do you buy brands you see advertised on TV? It's a big influence, huh? Bad cops deserve everything they can possibly get because it ruins all the good work decent cops do,which is kinda the way you're seeing it, I think.
And Ice Cube might have written all sorts of songs, none of which I've taken any interest in, unless of course I realize it refers to me and people like me. Maybe Mr Bush should start a thread to defend himself, but then, he had a big audience at the time. I just get to listen to crap on the radio and sit and take abuse from idiots who think it's the coolest thing to do to become clones of the rich guys who pump their influences at them. Except, I doubt those idiots are quite so rich. They just line other peoples pockets. Stupid people doing stupid things with guns like to hold them high and on their side. You've seen it in every gang movie, at least. Why? That won't give a well aimed shot at all. But that's the way they have to do it because it looks the part because they have to emulate the big earners they see in the music videos. If they watched the news and saw how the army or the cops do it, they'd get better results, but that's not how their 'gangsta' lords and masters do it, and they certainly don't want to do it in a proficient military manner. Oh no, they have to have their pants around their knees with the pistol grip sticking over their belt in order to look just like the next guy with the same master. It actually makes me laugh, all these clones talking the same garbage in the same way from one town to the next. Do they walk in that stoopid way to stop their pants from falling down, d'you know? You know where wearing your pants low comes from, don't you? Prison. It has a meaning too. I'd pull them pants up if I were you!
And come on man, some communities will never get it together. Call it any 'ism' you want. But who is it who runs the gas stations, the convenience stores, wears the suits and who is it who robs them at gunpoint? If you're thinking it, then the same 'ism' applies to you, right? Look at the Olympics though, the same 'ism's apply there, don't they? From the swimming pool and cycle track to the 100m sprint. You notice any differences or do you want to keep your eyes shut? That doesn't come from a bad attitude, but from physical capabilities. Some peoples bodies can't deal well with swimming, others can't deal with sprinting or heavyweight boxing. Instead of burying our heads, we need to accept that in general terms, people are different. Oil and vinegar are liquids, but they don't mix, no matter how hard you try. Some people are conditioned - *every* gangsta drew the short straw in Compton, right? Yawn! But other people got their act together and stopped blaming other people or circumstances for their miserable lives. We have cops, marines, soldiers, sailors, airmen, paramedics, coast guards, architects, industrialists, zoo keepers, artists, film crew, mechanics, any line of work you can think of who could have gone down the route of blaming someone else and having to resort to selling drugs to feed their kids, but these choices were made early on. The made their beds and they're lying in them, very comfortably. I don't generally have much call to stop them, but the people I *do* have to interract with, as part of what I do, don't like it because I generally interrupt their illegal activities, whether I agree with the law as it stands, or not, and they protest at 'harassment' and "Are you only stopping me becasue I'm..." because they don't like to be caught. Most people I'd previously mentioned accept this as they realize I don't have a crystal ball to work with. The collateral damage is that some people don't realize it and object to us trying to do our jobs. They often fail the 'attitude tests' so they're not going to get a decent or understanding experience, because they've already decide it ain't gonna be that way. "I'm being harassed by the police again" Generally though, that's from teenagers and kids in their early 20s. Is that another 'ism' or a fair observation perhaps? Can I ask you, Mr X, where you fall into?
**my reply**
the bad cops i see on tv are still cops, just because they were on tv doesnt mean they couldnt of pulled me over and pepper sprayed me in the eyes for listening to ice cube. i dont have it out for cops like you, but as another human being your annoying and very self absorbed, your offended by a song about cops, you think your the only cop in the world or that everyone does stuff your way? what about Johannes Mehserle who went ahead and murdered oscar grant just a few miles away from me? what about the other cops who've been doing the exact same thing and not getting caught? where does the feeling of being above everyone else come from? because your being paid to do it by the government? the police are basicly just the governments gang, so i really dont see much difference between what officers are doing and what nortenos are doing. the only difference i see, is that the government has MUCH more control over the streets, if any other gang had control over the streets like that, and the official police were just a small group of people living in a city and trying to gain more power, chances are theyd start selling drugs to start moving up in the chain of command. you are a gang member and are no different from the crips or bloods. and if you feel offended by that, tell that to the gang members you bust and maybe that'll help them understand. i know you wont agree with that, so im done with this, i've made my point, and now im going to get on with my life
**his reply**
Yeah, bad cops are bad cops, from those who became cops coz they got bullied and want to take it out on someone else, to those who just want to avoid every bit of work they can. You, I guess, generally just notice the ones who like to abuse their authority. If you work, you'll have people who are bad at doing what *they* do, but does that make you as bad as them? I don't think so! Why should you get lumped into the same box as them?
You know, I've been doing this for seven years now, and not once have I ever had the need to pull my pepper spray out. Why would I do that to someone for listening to IC? And I'm annoying and self absorbed? Well hey, it wasn't me who chased *you* to another board to try to get a response out of you. You ask me something, I'll tell you. If you think that's self absorbed, perhaps you shouldn't have chased me to another board in the first place. What were you expecting, or did you just pitch in to have a little temper tantrum? I don't know how many others do it like me, but then, you wouldn't have a clue about that as there isn't a song about it, so you need someone to tell you just so you can spit your pacifier out and tell them they're self absorbed. How much more self absorbed do you want other than writing a song about yourself and making people listen to it for over 20 years? Oops, you didn't think of that, did you?
Oh, I'm in the 'Governments Gang'? What was it you said to me? If I "want to complain about a song that's over 20 years old I should grow up"? Get a grip, little man, the 'governments gang' garbage is nearly fifty years old! What a really stoopid and juvenile thing to say! Ooh, "Its a government conspiracy, man!" Look, this isn't the 'Born on the 4th of July' site, get a hold of yourself! Thanks for the smile though, you're really showing yourself up!
No, I don't feel offended by what you said, it's you who looks like the aeging hippy or little kid who doesn't like to get caught and is carrying a rather large chip on his shoulder. Your voice and your opinion amount to nothing. You're clearly not a person I'd choose to have a beer with or go to a ball game with, unlike my buddies who aren't a$$ holes and have put the time in, both at home and abroad, so why should I spend any time considering *anything* you have to bleat about, hm? I'll respond to you, but your opinion means nothing. It would if you sounded level headed and could give a structured intelligent response, but since that ain't you, you think you're gonna upset me? Oh yeah, sure, like that's gonna happen, but hey, it was almost a funny idea while it lasted!
"i know you wont agree with that, so im done with this, i've made my point, and now im going to get on with my life"
What is this? Tag, you're it? You want to get me to respond, say your bit, throw a little strop then run away "I'm not listening, I'm not listening!"??? What are you, a twelve year old girl? What, you don't have the capacity for a structured response? You *know* that *I* won't agree so *you're* done? Does that mean you're too close minded and ignorant to accept there might be something else, coz clearly you don't want to hear it? You've made no point at all, but you *have* demonstrate the type of individual you are. You've just whined and cried about the same old garbage with nothing to show for it and in doing so have just emphasized your need for a surrogate parent because you don't seem overly capable of being able to handle very much. When I get pulled over I don't make a big deal out of it, and I most certainly don't tell the cop what I do, I want to hear what he's got. He finds out when he asks for ID. You? You squeal 'harassment' at the first opportunity! Man, you might not have a spine, but do you have issues!? Remember, you chased after me, and from what I can make of you, you probably don't have much of a life to be getting on with. I thought after your first reply there might have been a bit of substance to you, but I guess I was mistaken. But hey, go get on with what life it is that you lead, little doggy. But you know, this spitting your pacifier out and telling me "i've made my point, and now im going to get on with my life". What a joke. You'll reply, you won't be able to help yourself, and when you do, I'll wipe the floor with you then, too.
Until then, enjoy the frustration!
**my reply**...
im just saying your not better than anyone else, and since i cant argue reasonably with you because you just spit all this one-sided nonsense at me, i'm just gonna resort to the most animalistic type of arguement. your not concerned about understanding why they wrote the song, your just concerned about winning the arguement, and thats why i called you self absorbed. they wrote that song way before you even became a cop, times were different, so who knows what was going on, especially in LA. if they never wrote it, he might of not even became famous and might of did something ACTUALLY illegal instead. im not a cop hater, im not a rap hater, i was trying to help you understand why he wrote the song, but somewhere along the lines this turned into a me vs you thing, so im not wasting anymore time on it.
**some other guy replys (which is probably him under a different screen name)**...
Mr x. It looks to me like you spoilt for this. The guy gave you a chance but your posts got ugly. He's not spitting any nonsense at you at all and its you who certainly aint arguing reasonably, most especially with that crap about his being in a government gang. !!! Come on, youre grasping at straws and it really is a ridiculous thing to bring up. You might want to rethink about whose spitting nonsense! He's given you structure and valid points which you dont seem to be able to counter. I'm a parent too and if he's who he says he is and does what he says he does, then we need more people like him and less people like you attacking him. I've seen other people try to ridicule him and get all spiteful and such with him. He starts out just fine, but when people turn nasty, he goes ahead and does what he says he will do and he wipes the floor with them. It was you who got nasty towards him, so he just responded. And you know, I couldnt care when it was written, if I heard a song called **** the veterinary surgeons today, then its just as relevant to me today as the day it was written and I'd be just as mad as him. The content doesnt matter, the title of the song and the hate in it is all Id need. If it gets played today its just as relevant as it was back then. I believe he gave you an argument for that which you ignored. Are you saying that the songs now irrelevant because of its age and because Ice Cube has moved on? You realize Ice Cube gets paid every time that song gets played? So its relevant to him. Its also relevant to me, when I hear it, because of one of my relatives careers. I find it utterly offensive. Its a vile song with nothing but hate in it. Why should anyone try to understand it. Look at the title. Thats a blanket covering, and if its played today its a blanket covering for any cop, even for those in academy. Cant you see that?
**since i was paying no attention he then sends me a message on another message board (which got deleted) telling me he has replied on the ice cube board and also calls me a drug dealer and stupid shit, but here was his reply on the ice cube board)**...
Is there anything I can add to danielfour's, Mr X?
M-mmm, yes, I think there is...
I don't presume to be better than anyone. That's your assumption.
Can you tell me where my "nonsense" is? You've not actually told me. I've given you structured responses, yet you just ignore them and please, when it comes down to "nonsense", you need look no further than the 'governments gang' "nonsense" you wrote. But at least I was able to respond to what you wrote. You make no argument at all, you respond to nothing I say, so it's no argument. It's one sided because you choose not to respond to it - something you chased me to another board for - and it's certainly not "nonsense". Please demonstrate what *is* nonsense and then I'll tell you why it isn't, unless it wasn't blindingly obvious anyway, but hey, I help people who struggle with basic concepts every day. No need bring up the 'governments gang', I think I covered that one. Oh, sorry, that was *your* nonsense!
It's you, by your responses that leads me to believe it's you who's looking for the argument. I believe I tried to ignore your stalking me and your argumentative approach, yet having instigated it, it is *you* who carried it on, so I responded likewise. If you can't cope with that, you need to find someone of the same capacity as yourself. So no, no argument, infact, there's no argument required with floor wiping, as as you've demonstrated yourself, you can't come back to a single structured response I've given you, have you? So your assumption of my being "self absorbed" is formed out of your own ignorance, wouldn't you say? Yet again, it matters *not* when the song was written, if it's played today, its just as relevant as the day it was released. As daniel said, it's relevant to IC because he makes money on it every time it's played, so in that alone, it retains every bit of its relevance. When did *you* first hear it? Becasue it's influenced you. So how long after its release did it become "relevant" to you? Or does that somehow not matter?
"if they never wrote it"? Well they *did* write it. That's why I'm here and why you stalked me to another board to get a response out of me, so that's a kinda dumb thing to say.
I don't need understanding as to why he wrote it. It rains, I get wet, I'll blame the police, not the gangs, drugs or guns with which I surround myself. But hold on... I can surely blame the police for that too!?
No, YOU stalked me to another site to get a response out of me, and now you've got it, you don't like it. There IS no you vs me. And because you don't like what you've created for yourself, because you have no response to what I've come back to you with, you've decided you'll duck out under the guise of "not going to waste any more time on it"? Go on then, put your tail between your legs and scuttle off. Come back when you've grown some balls, if you have the courage about you, or continue your diatribe from afar, from behind the faceless anonymity your computer provides. You came to me, remember, you copped the attitude, you couldn't come back with a response to a single thing I put up and now you've decided you're "not going to waste any more time on it"? How about you consider the consequences of what you say before you open your mouth? Man, you wonder why you consider a stop by the police as harassment? My attitude to people I stop, is mirrored to that of the theirs, but if their attitude stinks, I at least have the decency to give them an opportunity to correct it. If not, they squeal harrassment where these *is* none. So maybe you should consider that.
And youre not a cop hater? Act like it then, or do you just want to let a little steam off to one of your so called harassers from behind your computer screen?
** my reply**...
this is the last reply ill ever write to you. your right that i do ignore alot of what your saying, and thats because i quite honestly dont care enough to read it all and reflect on it, i skim through it but alot of it seems biased. my mind has already been made up on how the police operate, right from the very first post i had my mind made up. if you need to be reminded, heres what i think about the police: they are human beings, some are good, some are bad. some catch killers and child molesters, some ARE killers and child molesters. from the very first post the only intent i had was on helping you understand the song, your response was "i am performing a service in which i get paid for", that is exactly what ice cube was doing. people were agreeing with the statement "F the police" way before the song was ever recorded, so capitilizing on it was his way of LEAVING a life of crime. if NWA never recorded an album full of shock material, they would of never got rich, and probably would of added more to the california crime rate. you then claimed "people have to pay for their actions theyve made" (or something like that), well if thats the case, i guess the song F the police was the police's way of paying for all the wrong they've done (cutting off hippies hair, beating innocent civilians, spraying them with fire hoses, tazing, pepper spraying, you name it). what has ice cube had to pay for making the song? he got rich and famous, and i think that put a chip on your shoulder. if he ever called the police, and they chose not to protect him, they'd be bad cops for not doing THEIR JOB, their supposed to protect whoever calls them regardless of the persons personality. would i look down on ice cube if he called the cops? of course not, he's still one of the best rappers in the business. he wrote that song when he was 18, and wrote it deliberatly to offend any cop it applied to, if you feel like it applies to you, then who am i to disagree? but maybe ask yourself why it applies to you. also ask yourself why you are offended by something an 18 year old would say, it's just a kid's opinion, right? my uncle is a cop, and ive never heard him complain about the song, maybe he's mature enough to know it doesnt directly apply to him or maybe he's too busy feeling good about any real difference he's made in the world. if you feel unnapreciated, maybe find a new line of work, or listen to the positive feedback from the people that call you to do your job, thats all i can suggest. as for me, i dont hate cops, but i dont love them either, they are just strangers to me. same with the song, i dont hate it, but i dont love it either. im an ice cube fan, but even i know it's not his best song. i can think for myself, and if anyone was dumb enough to say F the police just because ice cube said it, i wouldnt agree with them either, but im not gonna just go out and agree with whatever YOU say either, because how would that be any different? you can think whatever you want to think about me, i dont give a goddamn about my online reputation.
on a side note: reading your first post again makes me laugh you said.. "Awsome. Great lyrics. Inspirational. You must see yourself as quite the role model? Or perhaps even some sort of 'prophet' to those who like to call themselves 'soldiers' but would never, EVER contemplate actually joining the military because they have to do, like, u-uuh, proper soldier stuff! Discipline? Na-aaaaaaaaah! " did you know another rapper by the name of ice-t served 4 years in the military and then went on to write a song called COP KILLER which caused a nationwide controvery? he was even angrier than ice cube, he wasnt just saying F you, he was screaming about killing cops. im not saying i agree with the song at all, im just saying your post is ironic and ignorent.
and then theres this... "What would be even sweeter would be if I was ever around when you shouted for help. After listening to that, you're on your own, pal."
how is THAT justifying your wage? my tax dollars dont go to THAT. thats a bad cop if i ever heard of one.
i guess your never going to understand the song, or if you do understand it now, you'd never admit that you understand it because you'd see that as losing the arguement. so i guess im done. i've made all the points i've needed to make, i hope you've taken something out of this to reflect on.
and to the other guy: i dont think ice cubes getting any money every time f the police gets played because thats why he left NWA and rutheless records in the first place, jerry heller was screwing him over, and he wasnt making any money. the only one who made any money from NWA was eazy-e and jerry heller, and thats cause they owned ruthless records, even when dr. dre started death row records he was sighned as exclusive artist to ruthless records, so dr. dre had to give 10 percent of his profits from the chronic album to eazy-e. im pretty sure ice cube doesnt get any royalties unless its music from his solo career
**his reply**...
Wow. You know, I'm really impressed with your reply and you hit a couple of chords. Why couldn't you have said it like that from the start? Some of it I vehemently disagree with, some I grugingly have to agree with. I'm going to reply to it properly, when I get the chance to, but now you've spoken with a bit of balance and not come out swiping, I hope you might reply to it. If you don't wish to, then so be it.
**my reply**...
let me correct myself: this will be the last reply ill ever make.
im glad my opinion is valued, im sorry if at any point you felt like i disrespected you. ice cube may have wrote f the police, but he's also written songs discouraging crime. if your interested in hearing any, check these out, they are good songs...
"what can i do?" a song about a drug dealer ending up in prison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYcpjpsg_jg
"lil ass g" a song about the wanna-be gangster little kids that end up in prison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnzFUvfq6Hk
"ghetto vet" a song about a gangbanger that gets shot and paralyzed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLmodGd7utE
i'd say he has an equal ammount of songs that do not glamorize crime as he does songs that do not glamorize authority. if you choose to only focus on the ones that relate more to you, thats your decision, but if you want to really understand who ice cube is, just check out more songs of his. if you have your mind made up about who he is already, then theres nothing i can do to convince you.
if you are still feeling like the police department is being picked on, here is are some songs he did about other occupations...
"alive on arrival" a song about a man who has been shot, waited in the hospital to see a doctor for hours, and dies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwb31R4d8eY
"record company pimpin" a song about how the record companys take advantage of their artists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tObtMwX4S-w
"black korea" a song about korean storekeepers assuming he's about to rob them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LNbxlKhK3A
"i wanna kill sam" a song about how ice cube wants to kill uncle sam, it explains why he feels so angry at the country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVz5Zgi_eaY
here are some songs he did that are about police, but not directly about officers.
"ghetto bird" a song about police helicopters...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzIkfVd-CzI
"3 strikes you in" a song about the three strike law in the metaphore of a baseball game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddbN9sHLJn8
"penitentary" this is a where he examines a few prejudice reasons why people would want a man in prison, but at the same time eximines a few legitimate reasons why the man would end up in prison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDZtt5ZM47A
but if you are going to judge ice cube for his songwriting, i'd atleast say to judge him by the album: the predator. it's without a doubt his most opinionated album.
heres a song from it, if you disagree with it i wont bother arguing with you, because atleast your debating a song he put thought into rather than just something he did for money. if i were to judge ice cube for something he did for money, i would be on here offended at movies like "torque" and "are we there yet"
heres the song...
"when will they shoot?" a song about how at the time he was expecting somebody to kill him for his opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1lUhfsdeyo
heres another song i'd reccomend to you that coinsidently has ice cube on it.
this one is called "people dont believe (hand of the dead body)" i believe the rapper scarface makes some valid points about gangster rap. listen to it and reflect on it if you want, at least they took time to put thought into it, so it'd be something worth reflecting on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkltsgNZCyg
and finally, another song by scarface called "now i feel ya" this song really moved me personally, this song is how alot of people live, i've even had times in my life that were like this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pNzviB_dP0
these are all just songs i like and appreciate, i do not agree with every single thing he is saying, but i love the freedom of speech and also love other elements of the songs too (the beat, the structure of the lyrics, the similies and metaphores, the slang words, ect), if you want to listen to them it'd be cool, if not, thats cool too.
it is clear that ice cube is easily more influenced by malcom x than by martin luther king. if i had to choose between the two, i am easily more influenced by martin luther king. martin luther king believed we should judge a person based on the content of his charecter, and not by the color of his skin, that is exactly why i do not say F the police, i judge the police by their charecter and not by their uniform. martin luther king was without a doubt judged by racist people, and he rose above it with a message of peace, and by doing so has become a revalutionary icon. so when anyone says F the police, you are being judged for your uniform, if you can find the peace in your heart and rise above it and help someone in need out regardless of how they may have judged you in the past, you are as good as martin luther king by my standards. martin luther king understood why malcom x was so angry, but martin luther king had very different ideas and hope for americas future, and thats not much different than why i can understand where ice cube is coming from, but at the same time not agree with every single one of his views.
and lets just say the scenerio from your first post took place. ice cube needed your help for whatever reason (stolen car, kidnapped family member, intruder, ect) and you chose not to help him. his opinion of police would not change at all, and it might only cause the tension between you two to get more intense. but lets say you DID help him, you may very well be the officer who single-handedly caused ice cube to release an official apology to any undeserving police officer he may have offended in the past, or possibly even record a song called "thank god for police". if he chose not to pay you any gratitude, then that is just ignorence you can do nothing about, but you can at least take pride in staying loyal to your cause.
if you listen to more recent ice cube albums, you will find that he has calmed down ALOT. he does alot of party songs these days that have nothing to do with crime, police, or politics. the reason for this? maybe he feels that america has changed and that he is satisfied with the outcome, or maybe he is just plain tired of making an arguement that wont make any difference. it's up to you, me, and everyone else who may be reading this to reflect on society and be somebody that can make a difference in the world.
it's been fun debating this, have a good one.
**his reply**...
Ok Mr X, you know, you chased me to another site to get a response from me? I give you that response yet you say "i do ignore alot of what your saying, and thats because i quite honestly dont care enough to read it all and reflect on it, i skim through it but alot of it seems biased." Well, what did you contact me in the first place for? You badger me for a response yet you ignore it, you don't care to read it and it seems biased? So come on, you tell me, what was the point in you chasing me for a response from me in the first place??? And what the hell is the bias? I've given you my point of view and you don't care to read it, so you'd clearly only rather stick with your one sided point of view? WHY then, did you chase me to another board for a response?
How many times have I told you? You don't need to help me "understand" the song because I take what I need from the title and the chorus. It's fairly clear to me. I might find a guy beating his wife and sure, he might have been a kept little man, but no amount of understanding changes anything. He beat his wife. It's right there, that's all I need. Or do you mean that I get paid, Cube gets paid, so that entitles him to write such a derogatory song and 25 odd years later, it's still being played? That has rather long reaching consequences, wouldn't you say? And for the kid who's ten now and hears it for the first time in five or so years, it's going to be just as new to him then as the day it was released. And he's gonna take from it whatever he wants. Some *will* be influenced by it.
"he got rich and famous, and i think that put a chip on your shoulder." Don't be ridiculous. I'd get a chip on my shoulder about all sorts of sports stars and movie stars if that were the case. "if he ever called the police, and they chose not to protect him, they'd be bad cops for not doing THEIR JOB, their supposed to protect whoever calls them regardless of the persons personality." Yeah, well there you go, you make your bed, you lie in it. F me? Ok then, good luck. What are you after? Absolute perfection? A cop is just as human as the next guy. They have families, go on holidays, get drunk and go to baseball games just like anyone else. They bleed the same too, as you might have seen in Oakland last week and they'll leave their families behind for a long time for just turning up to do their job. After what? A basic traffic stop? The same thing you find so "harassing"? So I'm sorry, but I have human traits, and yes, as far as I'm concerned, Cube's on his own. Unfortunately, I also know that Lieutenants and Captains won't allow the rank and file to put those views into practice. The captain can sit behind his desk and tell the lieutenant to suck it up. The lieutenant tells his sergeants to suck it up and then the sergeants tell everyone else to suck it up and do their job. If I were a Lieutenant or a captain, I'd be telling those under my command to suck it up and get on with it, because that's what's required. I know that. But in my current position, he's on his own. But if I were to turn up at a car wreck and Cube was in it, if he needed immediate medical care, he'd get it. If he was ok, I'd say "Hey, you're Ice Cube, right?" I'd hear his response and say "Yeah, I love your music, man, most especially 'F the Police'..." Unfortunately, I'd have to do what I'm supposed to do. "how is THAT justifying your wage? my tax dollars dont go to THAT. thats a bad cop if i ever heard of one." So sorry for being human. But I think, if you've bothered reading this, you'll have seen what I'll *actually* have done.
"he wrote that song when he was 18, and wrote it deliberatly to offend any cop it applied to, if you feel like it applies to you, then who am i to disagree? but maybe ask yourself why it applies to you."
When he made it makes no difference. Kids are influenced by it today. "but maybe ask yourself why it applies to you." Yeah, hey, I'm a tax accountant, this song bears no relevance to me at all, but I figured I'd just stick my oar in. Why it applies to me??? U-uuh, the *title*???
Whether you hate the song or not is completely irrelevant. Your opinion of Cube, my opinion of Cube, all his other songs, everything he's ever done is completely irrelevant. It's the title of the song, the fact that it's played, the influence it's had on you and the influence it will have on others in the future.
"if you feel unnapreciated, maybe find a new line of work" Either you're being stupid or you're trying to be insulting.
No, I've never heard Ice - Ts Cop Killer. I'd most likely have exactly the same opinion of him as I do Ice Cube if I did. I didnt realise he'd done his time in the military, and I'm surprised he wrote such a song *after* he'd done it, but no, I can't say I've ever heard it.
"i guess your never going to understand the song, or if you do understand it now, you'd never admit that you understand it because you'd see that as losing the arguement. so i guess im done. i've made all the points i've needed to make, i hope you've taken something out of this to reflect on."
Understaning it has never been my aim. Everything I need is in the title an what I heard on the radio. This is no argument. How can it possibly be when you ignore everything I respon to you with? And with that, you're "done"? So all you've done is pump your opinion at me and completely ignore what I've responded with being on the receiving end of the song. You said it yourself "i do ignore alot of what your saying, and thats because i quite honestly dont care enough to read it all and reflect on it, i skim through it but alot of it seems biased." To me, that's increibly ignorant. You bagered me into responding to you, you've ignore what I've said and just given me your opinion and not had the common decency about yourself to see it from another point of view. I had the decency to respond to you, since you stalked me to another site for it and I responded to the points you brought up. Yet you ignored or couldnt be bothered reading what I responded with. Don't you feel that that's
just ignorant? Again, why di you push for a response if you din't want to read it?
"im glad my opinion is valued" No, your opinion isn't value. You've given me it and in your ignorance you've chosen to not even read my responses, so you will remain ignorant. "im sorry if at any point you felt like i disrespected you." Doesn't bother me at all. If it did, I shouldn't be doing what I do. If I was to get it from lieutenants or sergeants, that's one thing, but from you? No. "ice cube may have wrote f the police, but he's also written songs discouraging crime." Sorry, never heard them, they don't seem to get the same air time as others. And no, sorry, not interested, not my type of music.
"if you choose to only focus on the ones that relate more to you, thats your decision," Yes, thankyou, it is. "but if you want to really understand who ice cube is," U-uuh, no, I don't. If I did, I'd be looking up every writer of every song I ever heard. My music tastes are completely different, yet for who I like, I don't try to understand them. Hey, I can drive a car. I don't know how it works, I'm not interested in how it works, I just need one to drive. "if you have your mind made up about who he is already," I'm not interested in who he is. Never have been.
"if you are still feeling like the police department is being picked on," U-uuh, *no*, just that one song, really. See, this is why you're ignorant. I haven't gon on about Cube or any other music, buit since you don't bother to read what you pushed me to write, you wouldn't know that, would you?
See? No, probably not... "but if you are going to judge ice cube for his songwriting, i'd atleast say to judge him by the album: the predator. it's without a doubt his most opinionated album." NOT. INTERESTED. Had the decency to read what you wrote though. If youd spent a little more time reading what I responded to you with, you wouldn't have had to type out all this completely irrelevant garbage.
"heres a song from it,..." No, absolutely not interested.
"heres another song i'd reccomend" Still not interested. Never have been...
"and finally, another song" Still no, try as you might. Title of this thread?
"it is clear that ice cube is easily more influenced by malcom x than by martin luther king." Why? Not why the above, just "why"? Don't you get it. I don't deal with it, I'm not interested in it, I just deal with the end result. I do not care about someones influences or their upbringing, it's the end result where I become involved. "if i had to choose between the two," I am really deeply uninterested, but again, at least I had the decency to actually read what you wrote and, indeed, respond to it. The title of the thread doesnt have anything to do with Martin Luther King.
"if you listen to more recent ice cube albums, you will find that he has calmed down ALOT." I DON'T CARE. One song, when he was an angry little man, THAT'S IT!
"it's been fun debating this," Really, where's the debate? "i do ignore alot of what your saying, and thats because i quite honestly dont care enough to read it all and reflect on it, i skim through it but alot of it seems biased." Debates tend to have more than one point of view!
Next time you don't want to read someone elses point of view, try not pushing them for one, unless of course you enjoy being ignorant.
**my reply**...
i wanted to help you understand the song, you dont want to understand the song.
- stalemate.
i do not sympathize with the harsh words the police are using on that song (pull your goddamn ass over right now!, shut the F up, im taking your black ass to jail!) and you do not sympathize with the harsh words ice cube has used on the song (f'in with me cause im a minority, it's gonna be a bloodbath of cops dying in la) - stalemate.
i stalked you, you stalked me. - stalemate.
i want you to do your job, you dont want to do your job, but if you do it regardless of how rude ice cube (or anyone else) may have been, i feel like spending time on these posts have been worth it.
i've said what i've had to say, and if that is the final outcome, then theres nothing i can do to prevent you from making your decisions. i have nothing but sympathy for the cops who died in oakland the other day, i also have nothing but sympathy for oscar grant or any other victim like him. now that i think about it, there are no brutal criminals or brutal cops, only brutal people. there is also a huge difference between saying something and doing something, so if from the very start all you were doing was trying to make a point, then point taken. if you were dead serious, it was up to me to try to prevent something like that from happening. that is why i "stalked" you to another board.
i dont judge ice cube for something he wrote when he was 18, because i might aswell judge picasso for a scribble he made on a napkin. kids may be influenced by that song, but if theyre that easily influenced, theyre gonna be influenced by anything like that that comes along, including movies like die hard, dirty harry, or the show cops.
on a side note: you once claimed they are still playing the song all the time, im almost positive they dont play it on the radio because clear channel wants to maintain a clean image, and since there has never been a music video of it, mtv is definatly not playing it. im pretty sure if people are listening to it, they bought it on a cd or are subscribing to a specific satalite radio station. you also claimed shows with racial humor have been done away with, i disagree. shows like all in the family and sanford and son are constantly showed on a channel called tv land, while other shows like south park and family guy are all over tv, you could also manage to buy dvds or recordings of these shows and watch them whenever you like, which goes the same for F the police.
this time i really mean it, i will not reply to another topic, i just feel like ive said more than i had to say, and i really should be cleaning my house or doing laundry right now. so if i made any kind of valid point in all this, i feel like it was well worth it, you've made points too and to be honest im just too lazy to reply to them but you've opened my mind up a little bit more, your time has not been wasted in this discussion. i dont agree with alot of what your saying, but i sympathize with what you go through. peace.
**his reply**...
Are you for real? You really haven't read anything I posted to you, have you?
Not interested in "understanding" song when title it says all. You want me to do my job but you squeal "harassment" if it's done to you. I love my job, I do it very well, thankyou. You stalked me, I responded, you ignored it and so I had to resort to your level. You've had your say and not bothered even reading what it was that you wanted from me in the first place. You just wanted to push your opinion on me. So no discussion, you weren't able, therefore no stalemate, you just remain ignorant. I'll go to bed to sleep, get up, go to work, do what I do very well, listen to some other little man squeal "harassment" because he doesn't like being caught, get home, have a beer, go to bed.
But you'll still be ignorant.
Don't ask me why, just read what you previously couldn't be bothered to. You might find enlightenment.
**my reply**..
i guess that makes two of us then. your not interested in understanding the song and your going to make up your own mind about how you do your job, therefore, no reason to continue this. i doubt ice cube is ever going to read this, so it was kinda pointless from the start.
edit: however, i just noticed you wrote the original post in 2007, and if by some chance ice cube WAS reading this back then, his new song may very well be a direct response to you. if you were looking for a direct response from him, this video is about the closest you'll get...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzeZhCt5PVA
as for not taking interest in the other songs ive posted, but claiming that F the police offends every ounce of you, well, i really dont see that being much different than a drug addict getting arrested and then claiming you are harrassing him. you claim ice cube has offended you, but by ignoring alot of those other songs that deal with why he would say F the police, you are not taking a look in the mirror, which is kind of like a drug addict not getting why the police keep "harrassing" him. and i especially see a resembelance with your "stalking" accusations.
if you want to understand why i only skim through alot of your posts, ill give you an example. i posted a link to a song ice cube wrote entitled "us" a song he intended the black community to listen to, reflect on, and change some of their ways. the ONLY reason i posted that was to show that ice cube is not made of negativity and is capable of doing something positive. you responded...
"And come on man, some communities will never get it together. Call it any 'ism' you want. But who is it who runs the gas stations, the convenience stores, wears the suits and who is it who robs them at gunpoint? If you're thinking it, then the same 'ism' applies to you, right? Look at the Olympics though, the same 'ism's apply there, don't they? From the swimming pool and cycle track to the 100m sprint. You notice any differences or do you want to keep your eyes shut? That doesn't come from a bad attitude, but from physical capabilities. Some peoples bodies can't deal well with swimming, others can't deal with sprinting or heavyweight boxing. Instead of burying our heads, we need to accept that in general terms, people are different. Oil and vinegar are liquids, but they don't mix, no matter how hard you try. Some people are conditioned - *every* gangsta drew the short straw in Compton, right? Yawn! But other people got their act together and stopped blaming other people or circumstances for their miserable lives. We have cops, marines, soldiers, sailors, airmen, paramedics, coast guards, architects, industrialists, zoo keepers, artists, film crew, mechanics, any line of work you can think of who could have gone down the route of blaming someone else and having to resort to selling drugs to feed their kids, but these choices were made early on. The made their beds and they're lying in them, very comfortably. I don't generally have much call to stop them, but the people I *do* have to interract with, as part of what I do, don't like it because I generally interrupt their illegal activities, whether I agree with the law as it stands, or not, and they protest at 'harassment' and "Are you only stopping me becasue I'm..." because they don't like to be caught. Most people I'd previously mentioned accept this as they realize I don't have a crystal ball to work with. The collateral damage is that some people don't realize it and object to us trying to do our jobs. They often fail the 'attitude tests' so they're not going to get a decent or understanding experience, because they've already decide it ain't gonna be that way. "I'm being harassed by the police again" Generally though, that's from teenagers and kids in their early 20s. Is that another 'ism' or a fair observation perhaps? Can I ask you, Mr X, where you fall into? "
a F-ing NOVEL. a long reply that had very little to do with what i was talking about. im not saying its your fault for misunderstanding, but your train of thought is all over the place and unrelated to what its a response to.
another example: i posted a link to a song called "a bird in the hand" a song ice cube wrote about a new father that had to resort to selling drugs because staying legitimate was not paying the bills or feeding the family. my intent when i posted this song was to help you understand that some of these criminals you arrest are doing it for survival. your response...
"And Ice Cube might have written all sorts of songs, none of which I've taken any interest in, unless of course I realize it refers to me and people like me.
Maybe Mr Bush should start a thread to defend himself, but then, he had a big audience at the time. I just get to listen to crap on the radio and sit and take abuse from idiots who think it's the coolest thing to do to become clones of the rich guys who pump their influences at them. Except, I doubt those idiots are quite so rich. They just line other peoples pockets. Stupid people doing stupid things with guns like to hold them high and on their side. You've seen it in every gang movie, at least. Why? That won't give a well aimed shot at all. But that's the way they have to do it because it looks the part because they have to emulate the big earners they see in the music videos. If they watched the news and saw how the army or the cops do it, they'd get better results, but that's not how their 'gangsta' lords and masters do it, and they certainly don't want to do it in a proficient military manner. Oh no, they have to have their pants around their knees with the pistol grip sticking over their belt in order to look just like the next guy with the same master. It actually makes me laugh, all these clones talking the same garbage in the same way from one town to the next. Do they walk in that stoopid way to stop their pants from falling down, d'you know? You know where wearing your pants low comes from, don't you? Prison. It has a meaning too. I'd pull them pants up if I were you!"
why would you want the criminals to get better results with their guns? you want their victims shot more accuratly? it seems like your saying "im better than them because i was in the army" which i find to be biased. thinking your above any gang member simply because you were in the military or because you are a cop is biased in my opinion, and that is why i posted the government gang post, to try to bring you down to earth and not think your above anyone else simply because of your occupation, because an occupation or a gang title does not define you as a human being and does not define your actions as a person. then you go on a rant about pants, which i find unnecesarry. your basicly saying that rap stars have influenced all these gangsters into doing crime. rap doesnt influence selling drugs and gangbanging, money does. which is exactly why i posted the song that you had no interest in listening to. i got your point, so i had no need to read all of it (even though i now have and still have recieved the same point i did as i originally skimmed through it). the reason i disagree with your point is because crime and gangs have been around before rap, and if gangster rap never existed, crime would still be here.
and also, if you want there to be a song about good cops so bad, get off your ass and WRITE ONE. if you have time to write all this bull$#!+ on here, you have time to write song lyrics. in this day and age recording a song is easier than ever, and marketing it should be no trouble either since you'd have the corner stone of the market and unlimited access to the internet. if you feel as if you have no singing skills or skills with musical instruments, you can try to make a rap song since you believe it requires no skill whatsoever.
if the only reason you've been responding to me is to make me look like a fool, then i give you permission to start a new thread on the ice cube board insulting me any way you want, we'll see if anyone reads it and agrees with it, chances are no one will care, including me. i dont care about my online reputation. good luck in life and good bye.
**and just for fun i made 1 more bonus reply**...
heres a story you might be interested in also, an officer in dallas stopped a man rushing to the hospital to see his dying mother in law, drew a gun on him, argued with him for 13 minutes, and by the time he let him go, the woman had died. their reported conversation went like this...
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032609dnmetcopstop.3e9c080.html
"As he rushed his family to the hospital, 26-year-old NFL running back Ryan Moats rolled through a red light. A Dallas police officer pulled their SUV over outside the emergency room.
Moats and his wife explained that her mother was dying inside the hospital.
"You really want to go through this right now?" Moats pleaded. "My mother-in-law is dying. Right now!"
The officer, 25-year-old Robert Powell, was unmoved. He spent long minutes writing Moats a ticket and threatened him with arrest.
"I can screw you over," the officer told Moats. "I'd rather not do that."
The scene last week, captured by a dashboard video camera, prompted apologies and the promise of an investigation from Dallas police officials Wednesday.
"There were some things that were said that were disturbing, to say the least," said Lt. Andy Harvey, a police spokesman.
Moats' mother-in-law, Jonetta Collinsworth, was struggling at 45 with breast cancer that had spread throughout her body. Family members rushed to her bedside from as far away as California.
On March 17, the night of their incident with Powell, the Moatses had gone to their Frisco home to get some rest. Around midnight, they received word that they needed to hurry back to the hospital if they wanted to see Collinsworth before she died.
The couple, along with Collinsworth's father and an aunt, jumped into the SUV and headed back toward Baylor Regional Medical Center at Plano. They exited the Dallas North Tollway at Preston Road, just down the street from the hospital.
Moats turned on his hazard lights. He stopped at a red light, where, he said, the only nearby motorist signaled for him to go ahead. He went through.
Powell, watching traffic from a hidden spot, flipped on his lights and sirens. In less than a minute, he caught up to the SUV and followed for about 20 more seconds as Moats found a parking spot outside the emergency room.
Moats' wife, 27-year-old Tamishia, was the first out. Powell yelled at her to get back in.
"Get in there!" he yelled. "Let me see your hands!"
"My mom is dying," she explained.
Powell was undeterred.
"I saw in his eyes that he really did not care," Tamishia Moats said Wednesday.
Tamishia Moats and her great-aunt ignored the officer and headed into the hospital. Ryan Moats stayed behind with the father of the dying woman.
"I waited until no traffic was coming," Moats told Powell, explaining his passage through the red light. "I got seconds before she's gone, man."
Powell demanded his license and proof of insurance. Moats produced his license but said he didn't know where the insurance paperwork was.
"Just give me a ticket or whatever," he said, beginning to sound exasperated and a little argumentative.
"Shut your mouth," Powell told him. "You can cooperate and settle down, or I can just take you to jail for running a red light."
There was more back and forth.
"If you're going to give me a ticket, give me a ticket."
"Your attitude says that you need one."
"All I'm asking you is just to hurry up."
Powell began a lecture.
"If you want to keep this going, I'll just put you in handcuffs," the officer said, "and I'll take you to jail for running a red light."
Powell made several more points, including that the SUV was illegally parked. Moats replied "Yes sir" to each.
"Understand what I can do," Powell concluded. "I can tow your truck. I can charge you with fleeing. I can make your night very difficult."
"I understand," Moats responded. "I hope you'll be a great person and not do that."
Hospital security guards arrived and told Powell that the Moatses' relative really was upstairs dying.
Powell spent several minutes inside his squad car, in part to check Moats for outstanding warrants. He found none.
Another hospital staffer came out and spoke with a Plano police officer who had arrived.
"Hey, that's the nurse," the Plano officer told Powell. "She said that the mom's dying right now, and she's wanting to know if they can get him up there before she dies."
"All right," Powell replied. "I'm almost done."
As Moats signed the ticket, Powell continued his lecture.
"Attitude's everything," he said. "All you had to do is stop, tell me what was going on. More than likely, I would have let you go."
It had been about 13 minutes.
Moats and Collinsworth's father went into the hospital, where they found Collinsworth had died, with her daughter at her side.
The Moatses, who are black, said Wednesday that they can't help but think that race might have played a part in how Powell, who is white, treated them.
"I think he should lose his job," said Ryan Moats, a Dallas native who attended Bishop Lynch High School and now plays for the Houston Texans.
Powell, hired in January 2006, did not return a call for comment. Assistant Chief Floyd Simpson said Powell told police officials that he believed that he was doing his job. He has been re-assigned to dispatch pending an investigation.
"When people are in distress, we should come to the rescue," said Simpson. "We shouldn't further their distress."
Collinsworth was buried Saturday in Louisiana. "
this is exactly why people get so upset at the police, even though he was only doing his job, he denied a man the right to see a dying family member only so that he could prove a juvenile point. that is morally wrong and disgusting. when does keeping the streets safe turn into facism? when do cops become gestapos? the man DID tell him what was going on in the first place, theres no reason the cop couldnt of went in the hospital with him and finished the ticket in there. its up to people like me to convince people like you not to act like people like him, but since my opinion is not valued, i guess this means nothing to you. between your juvenile state of mind and stories like this, i am leaning more and more towards making F the police a motto of mine.
**the end**...for now
if you read this whole thing, leave me some feedback
