LYRICS vs. PRODUCTION

[ThaG]

It does take a balance. Imagine Pac on some amateur FruityLoops beats. He would still be Pac but u wouldnt feel that same effect if he didnt have some classic beats to flow to.

Very good point.

 

[f31roger]

lyrics. There are a few katz that are so lyrical, they kan take a shitty beat and flip it bekuz they go hard on mic.

 

[Fucky McFuckerson]

I can't agree with the statement that good beats are easier to make these days. First, the software has allowed for virtually everybody to become a beatmaker, however it has also been one of the major causes for the connection between hip-hop and actual music (you know, the type of thing where somebody who knows how to play the instruments spends time in the studio creating something) to be lost.

Says who? The same cats that can pl;ay those instruments, are now just re-creating those same sounds on a keybopard or with software. Different times, different methods...same instrumental sounds.

Anyway, the synthetic, computer-generated sound that dominates hip-hop now is much more prone to the "depletion of ideas" problem than playing actual music. Which is evident by the thousands of albums full of the same-sounding shitty beats

See above. If you can re-create the sounds, it doesnt skip a beat.

Have you ever actually SAT in a studio with an ACTUAL producer/musician? Trust me, its just like sittin in on a jam session with a band.

 

[Fucky McFuckerson]

I see alotta BS'ers in this thread though. Lyrics over beats? Cmon, keep it 100....how many times do i see people on here talkin about how dope an album was, and the album you are speakin on is some weak ass mainstream rapper or a no-talent Bay rapper? "Well, the beats are blappin though!"

:ermm:

 

[ThaG]

Says who? The same cats that can pl;ay those instruments, are now just re-creating those same sounds on a keybopard or with software. Different times, different methods...same instrumental sounds.





See above. If you can re-create the sounds, it doesnt skip a beat.

Have you ever actually SAT in a studio with an ACTUAL producer/musician? Trust me, its just like sittin in on a jam session with a band.

I am not talking about the actual producers and musicians, I am talking about the kids sitting behind their computer playing with FL.

 

[f31roger]

I see alotta BS'ers in this thread though. Lyrics over beats? Cmon, keep it 100....how many times do i see people on here talkin about how dope an album was, and the album you are speakin on is some weak ass mainstream rapper or a no-talent Bay rapper? "Well, the beats are blappin though!"

:ermm:

If the beat was off the hook.. I'll say it.

I will never give someone a lyrical "+" if they suck. Rick Ross is about average in my opinion, but that song Mafia muzik, beat was hard.

I also think katz have a good beat and make horrible song. Lil Wayne is hit and miss wid me (I am not a fan)... that track "I'm Me", he kinda went 50/50 on it, but when Royce Da 59 used it, he blew it up.

I like alot of Celph Titled, but some (very few) of his beats aint do it for me... but I kan over look it bekuz he goes on the lyrics.

Same with newer Wu Tang stuff.

 

[Fucky McFuckerson]

I am not talking about the actual producers and musicians, I am talking about the kids sitting behind their computer playing with FL.

You need to distignuish between actual producers....and beatmakers....they are two very different things.

 

[Indiana]

Bats and flow over lyrics allday.

 

[ThaG]

You need to distignuish between actual producers....and beatmakers....they are two very different things.

Where are the actual producers these days?

 

[thatguy]

Says who? The same cats that can pl;ay those instruments, are now just re-creating those same sounds on a keybopard or with software. Different times, different methods...same instrumental sounds.





See above. If you can re-create the sounds, it doesnt skip a beat.

Have you ever actually SAT in a studio with an ACTUAL producer/musician? Trust me, its just like sittin in on a jam session with a band.

i believe what he is saying is that the creative process is kinda killed with the use of synth sounds. i will agree with that. i can make a fruity loops beat, i can make some pretty cold beats actually. but my homie that actually knows how to play the piano can make alot more diverse beats... and quicker, being that along with his playing, comes an understanding for how the note progression works, and an understanding for which notes sound better with each other such as perfect fifths etc... most these dumbass's making beats these days dont have enough notes in their little 4 second loops to need an understanding such as i described

 

[ThaG]

i believe what he is saying is that the creative process is kinda killed with the use of synth sounds. i will agree with that. i can make a fruity loops beat, i can make some pretty cold beats actually. but my homie that actually knows how to play the piano can make alot more diverse beats... and quicker, being that along with his playing, comes an understanding for how the note progression works, and an understanding for which notes sound better with each other such as perfect fifths etc... most these dumbass's making beats these days dont have enough notes in their little 4 second loops to need an understanding such as i described

Exactly

 

[ThaG]

Also, there is a perfect and very recent example of what I am talking about and it is snap music. Snap music is basically dead at this point and given how big hits Laffy Taffy and Crank That Soulja Boy were, it is at least somewhat surprising that it didn't last longer. However, it's defining characteristic was its reliance on very simple beats and because they are so simple, the style gets exhausted of fresh new ideas very quickly. I don't claim that's the sole reason behind the demise of snap music but I think it was definitely a factor

 

[DukeSkywalker]

i'm gonna have to go with beats. premier beats especially. group home and big shug were kinda weak but i'd still listen thanks to premier.

 

[5ive1en]

Its like the Nature Vs. Nurture debate. And the answer? It's a combination of both!

 

[Fucky McFuckerson]

Where are the actual producers these days?

Producers record, engineer, and master music. They do not necessarily have to make beats. A beatmaker is just that....someone who makes beats.

Just because an song says "Produced by", does NOT mean the beat was made by that person. A perfect example of this is Dr. Dre, who many times, had help with or in other cases, did not even DO the beat...but put "Produced by" and took all the credit. Scott Storch was a part of his "beat team" and did a SHIT ton of beats for The Chronic 2001...yet you cont see his name under the songs in the credits. This happens A LOT more than people know.

 

[Fucky McFuckerson]

Also, there is a perfect and very recent example of what I am talking about and it is snap music. Snap music is basically dead at this point and given how big hits Laffy Taffy and Crank That Soulja Boy were, it is at least somewhat surprising that it didn't last longer. However, it's defining characteristic was its reliance on very simple beats and because they are so simple, the style gets exhausted of fresh new ideas very quickly. I don't claim that's the sole reason behind the demise of snap music but I think it was definitely a factor

Snap music is horrible. To me, THAT shit WAS the start of the end of creativity of many rap elements.

 

[ThaG]

Snap music is horrible. To me, THAT shit WAS the start of the end of creativity of many rap elements.

Snap music was by no means the end of creativity, exactly the opposite, it was one of the few innovative things to come out in the last 10 years

The end of creativity was when your average rap album went from having 10 tracks with 5 good ones and the rest listenable to having 20 tracks, with 1 good one and 2 or 3 listenable, and from the region it came from being readily distinguishable by its sound to this being possible only for certain southern albums

This happened somewhere around 97-98-99

 

[Defy]

it seems the best lyricists are fucking deaf when it comes to choosing beats


I used to just care about lyrics but I grew outta that shit. I'll choose tight beats, although there are some rappers who just fuck shit up to the point where I can't even listen to their ass no matter how tight the beats are, rick ross and the awful times 5 million plies both come to mind with that......most wack rappers with tight beats I can just make fun of, like Group Home for example.....that was the epitome of "buy this album for the beats and beats only" shit, Primo went beast mode on their first album....but they say the most ridiculous shit that you just laugh at......or Young Jeezy, I laugh at how ignorant his ass is constantly but his beats are banging

Why he keep sayin yyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh????????????????
I-own-neeven-no

that foo says yeah so much that he had to ask himself why he says yeah so much and he didn't even know. lulz

 

[Fucky McFuckerson]

Snap music was by no means the end of creativity, exactly the opposite, it was one of the few innovative things to come out in the last 10 years

By using a minimalistic approach to something layered as rap music, a technic that has been mastered and procured over its exisistance? I beg to differ. But, that is YOUR opinion and that is fine.

What about the lyrics of snap music? Snap is only referring to the beat, not the what is being said. So this is only ONE element of rap and, IMO, and too many others, was a black eye to the game.

The end of creativity was when your average rap album went from having 10 tracks with 5 good ones and the rest listenable to having 20 tracks, with 1 good one and 2 or 3 listenable, and from the region it came from being readily distinguishable by its sound to this being possible only for certain southern albums

While i do tend to agree here, again, we are talking about one element of rap...the beat. I mean, lets keep it 100 ThaG...how often do YOU put beats over lyrics? I can tell by the "what are you listening to RIGHT NOW" thread, that you may lean towards the beat rather than the lyrics, because many of the songs you posted, had lyrical content that could be indistinguishable from about 95% of other rappers in the industry, underground or its counterpart. Others were just horrible songs all around (but that is merely opinion).

There are 1001 and Gucci Mane's in the south...and that is NOT a good thing.

 

[Mr. Nice Guy]

This is easy;

I can listen to poor lyrics over tight beats no problem

I can't listen to tight lyrics over shitty beats.