LA Gangs vs. NY Gangs and Hip Hop

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Feb 7, 2006
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#1
I was looking t the 40th anniverseray of the Black Spades, one of New
York's old gangs pre-Latin Kings, UBN, Crips, Netas, etc. -also the gang Afrika Bambatta (he made the song planet rock for those of you who don't know his name) was a warlord in before he became an instrumental figure in Hip Hop...And was thinking and being confirmed that Much of NY's Hip hop and therefore the world's Hip Hop scene comes from NY Street gang scenes from the 70's. You had the Tomahawks, Savage Nomads, Savage Samurais, The Reapers, The Scorpions, etc. all like lets get on some positive shit, enough of this fighting over colors and turf we got an escape...Hip Hop.

Hip Hop largely changed the NY landscape, it pretty much dropped the violence in true school NY bangin for 20-25 yrs, it united the latins and the blacks and smoothed out alot of the beefs they had (Afrika Bambatta is the one who extended his hand to the PRicans and invited them to teh 1st Hip Hop jams)... it stopped they "bloods and crips" before they started bangin other cities shit in the 90's. When Hip hop hit in Cali in the 80's it had a somewhat calming effect on our streets, but then it was right back to the normal. Blacks largely dropped out of the graffiti scene by the mid-90's either doing them or joining hoods, the Latinos continued and evolved it to tag banging and then full out turning into X3 hoods. The b-boying stopped and niggas went on to become true B-boys and C-boys. The on;y thinf that continued was the rap part of hip hop and we eventually saturated it with our gang lifestyle which in many cases perpetuates gang shit not simmers it, the exact opposite of what happened with the NY gangs entering and starting the Hip Hop movement out east.

Ny had gangs black, latino, and some white fighting in the hoods and barrios and transformed that energy into something that's worldwide, something that we devote alot of our time to. But for some reason we haven't and alot of us believe we can't create nothing positive out our street culture. In many ways we have poisoned Hip Hop by flippin it to where niggas all over the world use it to promote violence and a fake or real gang lifestyle. So my question is, why haven't we been able to start our own movement out here? Are we truly lackin... are the brothers and latins in the hoods and Barrios out here truly lost... do we come from an entirely different beast...Is New York just more cultural, intellectual and ahead of us like they've always claimed? What has prevented us and what prevents us now from turning this street energy into something beautiful for the masses?
 
Apr 19, 2008
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#4
you doin research for a paper, or whats good?

i hear the fuck out of all of this. thing is, human nature twists positive shit till they can exploit it, then continue to abuse that power.
 
Feb 7, 2006
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#5
Nah, I'm not... like I said I came across that black spade reunion video, and they was droppin jewels and talking bout how the Ny gangs from the 70's made alot of the hip hop culture, and came together for something positive, And that just got me to thinking like we got our own black and latin pop. over here, our own established gangs why the fuck cant we as a people, a coast, cities make some positive worldwide shit like NY did with hip hop?
 
Apr 12, 2005
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www.freeloadmp3.com
#6
Im going way back..to the early Days
of 75 and the black spades
Chillin with my man muscle man Ron
and the whole boogie down bronx BKA Pillod
it was a privledge for people to see
Bambatta rockin hard at 123
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#9
I think California Hip Hop has just saturated the streets in a different way. When you are speaking about the community in New York, you are speaking about predominately African Americans, and also Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Haitians, who arguably also come from countries with a lot of black blood. You're right, there were some whites who may have partaken as well, but it wasn't like you saw the Beastie Boys out doing songs in black neighborhoods.

In California, the diversity in the state and the amount of intermingling taking place creates a much different type of community than in New York. For example, you mention that African Americans seemed to give up graffiti. This may be true proportionally, but in California whites, Latinos, and Asians all are very involved in graffiti. SF and LA are grafitti destination cities. All races, but specifically Asians seem very into the B-Boy thing. Although most of the famous rappers in the state are African American, you have Latino rap as well and a few whites involved. Rap has moved past Black neighborhoods. Basketball is as popular as it ever is, but skateboarding and biking constantly borrows graffiti and hip hop music in its settings and entertainment.

Think of the diversity you have in California Hip Hop. Hieroglyphics, Living Legends, Murs... Jacka, J Stalin, Crooked I. Think of the regionalism you have in California Hip Hop where music from San Francisco or Oakland or Sac or LA compared with SD even can sound different.

I think when you look at the Hip Hop landscape around California, its reflects the California lifestyle as well as Hip Hop in the classic New York sense.

I think if you are speaking about rap and limiting the conversation to African Americans or African Americans / Latino, you can have a point about the "hood" not sending a beautiful message to the children and the next generation. That's no different than it is in New York today, or the South, either. How many Rick Ross for every Lupe Fiasco?
 
Nov 1, 2005
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#10
different times..60's/70's nyc gangs were on some chain/knife shit compared to when hip hop hit L.A. fools were commiting murders with high power weaponry.the rivelries were deeper and still are to this day.if hip hop woulda came around the west a decade earlier maybe things woulda been different...and it didnt help that LAPD used to fuck with youngsters for popping n breaking on their cardboards.instead of letting them be,they redirected them into a different lifestyle..gangbanging.you see them old school videos in NYC and they got large crowds around kids breakdancing and nobody bothering them..you couldnt do that around here..soon as the pigs seen a small crowd they broke it up.they basically didnt allow hip hop to develop round here.
 
Feb 7, 2006
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#11
Very true. But my point isn't that LA folks didn't stay with the hip hop culture and went right back to bangin, I'm just using that as evidence to show our mindstates is still revert back to some banging shit...My main question is why do you think that LA street organizations couldn't come together to make something like Hip Hop. I can't say this about the Chicno hoods but I can say that the late 60's and early 70's gangs from NY were coming from the Panthers and Young lords in NY, just as the Bloods and Crips of 69 and the early 70's was coming off of the Panthers too -I guess the Brown Berets was going around different Chicano varrios...The difference, Hip Hop came and calm them down, and The b's, c's, and eses went ballistic.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#12
Very true. But my point isn't that LA folks didn't stay with the hip hop culture and went right back to bangin, I'm just using that as evidence to show our mindstates is still revert back to some banging shit...My main question is why do you think that LA street organizations couldn't come together to make something like Hip Hop. I can't say this about the Chicno hoods but I can say that the late 60's and early 70's gangs from NY were coming from the Panthers and Young lords in NY, just as the Bloods and Crips of 69 and the early 70's was coming off of the Panthers too -I guess the Brown Berets was going around different Chicano varrios...The difference, Hip Hop came and calm them down, and The b's, c's, and eses went ballistic.
I've noticed in the Bay Area, the neighborhood thing is the biggest deal. We have the color problems up here, but its just not as big as someone being from Oakland or someone being from San Francisco. Name a city or a neighborhood and they'll want to fight someone just for being from a different neighborhood. Like LA and parts of SD, one issue California cities have is there is distance between neighborhoods. There's gang stories in the City about kids from Lakeview and Hunter's Point riding on each others turf to start shit, both black neighborhoods, but 15 minutes apart. Kids from Oakland and SF fight all the time, kids from Richmond fighting kids from SJ, etc. From my understanding, most of the lower class communities on the East Coast are in huge pockets. The Bronx and Brooklyn are huge neighborhoods where people interact. Not sure if relation in terms of distance is important, but out West there's probably a little distance between people doing the same thing, that might breed more loyalty toward someone's home or neighborhood or city than getting down as a collective, because all the places are so much different.
 
Oct 6, 2005
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#13
Dhadnot... You should pick up a copy of Jeff Chang's "Can't Stop Won't Stop"... I've only skimmed it (cause that b*tch is hella thick)... But he lays out this thesis (if you wanna call it that) that's hella interestin'... Basically he says NY rap & LA rap blew up off of, and owe a huge debt to gang culture.... But... It was the peace treaties, Like the one Bambaataa spearheaded (in NY), and the '92 cease fire (in LA) that allowed both cities to BLOW... Claiming both those movements, the birth of hip hop in NY & the early '90's rise of LA hip hop, were a direct result of gang peace treaties... He also lays out a rap history of LA before the riots that's deeply insightful... The Samoan Damus in Carson... And how they evolved into the Boo Ya Tribe... Latinos and the Shoreline rips in Venice... Pico Union... I'm off on tangents now... But that book explains a lot...
 
May 7, 2002
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#14
I was looking t the 40th anniverseray of the Black Spades, one of New
York's old gangs pre-Latin Kings, UBN, Crips, Netas, etc. -also the gang Afrika Bambatta (he made the song planet rock for those of you who don't know his name) was a warlord in before he became an instrumental figure in Hip Hop...And was thinking and being confirmed that Much of NY's Hip hop and therefore the world's Hip Hop scene comes from NY Street gang scenes from the 70's. You had the Tomahawks, Savage Nomads, Savage Samurais, The Reapers, The Scorpions, etc. all like lets get on some positive shit, enough of this fighting over colors and turf we got an escape...Hip Hop.

Hip Hop largely changed the NY landscape, it pretty much dropped the violence in true school NY bangin for 20-25 yrs, it united the latins and the blacks and smoothed out alot of the beefs they had (Afrika Bambatta is the one who extended his hand to the PRicans and invited them to teh 1st Hip Hop jams)... it stopped they "bloods and crips" before they started bangin other cities shit in the 90's. When Hip hop hit in Cali in the 80's it had a somewhat calming effect on our streets, but then it was right back to the normal. Blacks largely dropped out of the graffiti scene by the mid-90's either doing them or joining hoods, the Latinos continued and evolved it to tag banging and then full out turning into X3 hoods. The b-boying stopped and niggas went on to become true B-boys and C-boys. The on;y thinf that continued was the rap part of hip hop and we eventually saturated it with our gang lifestyle which in many cases perpetuates gang shit not simmers it, the exact opposite of what happened with the NY gangs entering and starting the Hip Hop movement out east.

Ny had gangs black, latino, and some white fighting in the hoods and barrios and transformed that energy into something that's worldwide, something that we devote alot of our time to. But for some reason we haven't and alot of us believe we can't create nothing positive out our street culture. In many ways we have poisoned Hip Hop by flippin it to where niggas all over the world use it to promote violence and a fake or real gang lifestyle. So my question is, why haven't we been able to start our own movement out here? Are we truly lackin... are the brothers and latins in the hoods and Barrios out here truly lost... do we come from an entirely different beast...Is New York just more cultural, intellectual and ahead of us like they've always claimed? What has prevented us and what prevents us now from turning this street energy into something beautiful for the masses?
I THINK ITS SAD THAT THE ONLY HIP HOP ACTIVITY LARGLY ALIVE IS THE RAP

BACC IN THE 80 THEY DIDNT BANG IN NEW YORK THEY USED HIP HOP TO SETTLE DIFFERENCES

WHERE GITTING DOWN WHERE U MAD AT RESULTED IN NIGGA BREAKING AGANST EACH OTHER IT MIGHT BE A FIGHT BUT NONE OF THA SHIT WE WAS DOING IN CALI

I SEE THE REST OF THE HIP HOP CULTURE LEFT THE STATE THAT CREATED IT AND WENT OVER SEAS I C MORE RICAZ AND EUROPEANS BREAKING THAN RAPERS

GUESS ITS NOT COOL NO MO TO BREAK AND POP LOCC AND GRAF ARTIST IS GETTING BOOKS THROWN AT THEM BUY JUDGES FOR CAUSING TENS EVEN HUNDREDS OF DOLLAZ OF DAMAGE
 
Feb 7, 2006
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#16
Dhadnot... You should pick up a copy of Jeff Chang's "Can't Stop Won't Stop"... I've only skimmed it (cause that b*tch is hella thick)... But he lays out this thesis (if you wanna call it that) that's hella interestin'... Basically he says NY rap & LA rap blew up off of, and owe a huge debt to gang culture.... But... It was the peace treaties, Like the one Bambaataa spearheaded (in NY), and the '92 cease fire (in LA) that allowed both cities to BLOW... Claiming both those movements, the birth of hip hop in NY & the early '90's rise of LA hip hop, were a direct result of gang peace treaties... He also lays out a rap history of LA before the riots that's deeply insightful... The Samoan Damus in Carson... And how they evolved into the Boo Ya Tribe... Latinos and the Shoreline rips in Venice... Pico Union... I'm off on tangents now... But that book explains a lot...
Thanks homie, you know what...I got that joint but never sat down to really read it, I'm gonna do that now.

To BG TAZ:
You know what homie, it's the corporations. Hip hop was a way for poor minorities and eventually anyone to get enjoyment out of life based on the resources they had. Corps exploited b-boying and raped the fuck out of rap, they can't do it to graf cuz it's always gonna be illegal, so you got this watered down shit, and people not even caring.

To Jimmy:
And Jimmy no prob. man, that black spades shit got me thinking I'ma post the vids when I get the chance.
 
May 7, 2002
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#18
Thanks homie, you know what...I got that joint but never sat down to really read it, I'm gonna do that now.

To BG TAZ:
You know what homie, it's the corporations. Hip hop was a way for poor minorities and eventually anyone to get enjoyment out of life based on the resources they had. Corps exploited b-boying and raped the fuck out of rap, they can't do it to graf cuz it's always gonna be illegal, so you got this watered down shit, and people not even caring.

To Jimmy:
And Jimmy no prob. man, that black spades shit got me thinking I'ma post the vids when I get the chance.
AND FACT IS WHEN CORP GOT THEY HANDS ON IT AND STARTED TO FEED RAPPER THE CRUMB OF THEY LABOR

RAPPERS STARTED TO RAP ABOUT THE MONEY THEY GOT INSTEAD OF THE FOOD THEY DIDNT HAVE OF THE CLOTHES THEY SHARED WITH THEY BROTHER

OR SEEIN GTHEY MOMS GO THRU THE STRUGGLE AND THATS WHAT MADE THEM HUSTLE

NOW ITS IM A HUSTLER AND NIGGAZ LIKE MAN MY MOM HAD A JOB YEAH SHE BOUGHT ME FOOD OR CLOTHES BUT I JUS HAD TO HUSTLE?

AND AFTER MASTER P GOT HIS DEAL THERE WASENT ANY OTHER COMPANY OUT THERE IN CORP WHO WAS GOING TO LET A BLACK MAN EAT THAT BIG WITHOUT PAYING BIG BUCCS

I MEAN P REALLY DID HIS THANG AND STUCC IT TO CORP FOR A GUAP

NOW AND DAYS THE YOUTH IS SPOILED

NOW I KNOW WHAT THE OGS WERE TELLING ME WHEN I WAS YOUNG ABOUT WHAT OUR GENERATION WAS BECOMMING

BUT YOU ONLY SEE THAT IF YOU WERE TAUGHT THAT

85% OF THE HIP HOP CULTURE ARENT TAUGHT FACTS

AND 10 OUT OF THE 15 THAT IS LEFT IGNORE IT
 
Dec 9, 2008
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#19
^^^^^
Real Talk.

I was reading an article about generation X yesterday and some prestigous scholar said that "socially" we are the most advance generation to date, but we need to shed the sense of entitlement.