Kerry only alternative to Bush??

[FunK-3-FivE]

Most people see Kerry as the alternative to Bush in the elections, Many of these people are misled in this choice and don't realize that they probably share more views with other candidates.
So I decided to post Nader's views on different issues:

Ralph Nader (Independent)
Nader was born February 27, 1934, in Winsted, Connecticut. Nader graduated magna cum laude from Princeton in 1955 and from Harvard Law School in 1958. As a student at Harvard, Nader first researched the design of automobiles. Consumer advocate and attorney; consultant to U.S. Department of Labor, 1963; founder, Public Citizen research group; author of several books, including Unsafe at Any Speed, 1965.


Taxes & Spending: The Green Party platform calls for the following:
"Jobs for All: A guaranteed right to job. Full employment through community-based public works and community service jobs programs, federally financed and community controlled."
"Living Wages: A family-supporting minimum wage. Start at $12.50 per hour in 2000 and index to the cost of living."
"30-Hour Work Week: A 6-hour day with no cut in pay for the bottom 80% of the pay scale."


Foreign Affairs: "Green Party called on the United Nations to enforce its charter provisions against the U.S. and other member countries planning to launch a preemptive war." "American Greens are praising the influence of Greens in European parliaments and other Greens in public office around the world in the efforts by their governments to avert an invasion of Iraq led by the U.S...demand that the United Nations enforce its charter against preemptive war by member nations" "Due Process Rights for reasons of 'national security,' 'anti-terrorism'..." Nader said that he supports the creation of an independent Palestinian state.

Illicit Drugs: "Decriminalize possession of drugs. Regulate and tax drug distribution. Release nonviolent drug war prisoners. Treat drug abuse as a health problem, not a criminal problem. Drug abuse treatment on demand."

Ex-felons' Voting Rights: "Restore the voting rights of people who are in prison or on parole. The stripping of voting rights of convicted felons, many of them drug war victims, has eliminated the voting rights of 1 out of 6 African American males. Loss of voting rights is no deterrent to crime, but it is a deterrent to rehabilitation. "


Social Services Funding: While not addressing the issue directly, The Green philosophy seems to oppose the Bush Faith-based initiatives. "The Greens support the separation of religious practices from the activities of government, commonly known as the separation of Church and State."


Welfare: The Green Party platform: "Universal Social Security: Taxable Basic Income Grants for all, structured into the progressive income tax, that guarantee an adequate income sufficient to maintain a modest standard of living. Start at $500/week ($26,000/year) for a family of four, with $62.50/week ($3,250/year) adjustments for more or fewer household members in 2000 and index to the cost of living." "Free Child Care: Available voluntarily and free for all who need it, modeled after Head Start, federally financed, and community controlled."
"End Corporate Welfare: Target subsidies for worker- and community-owned enterprises, not absentee-owned corporations. Put subsidies in the public budgets where they can be scrutinized, not hidden as tax breaks in complicated tax codes."


Security & Terrorism: "No compromise on Civil Liberties and Due Process Rights for reasons of 'national security,' 'anti-terrorism,'..."


Education: "No School Vouchers: No school vouchers from public budgets for private schools." "No For-Profit or Religious Charter Schools: Stop the diversion of public funds to for-profit corporations or religious organizations running charter schools with unaccountable administrations, uncertified teachers, and segregated student bodies."


Healthcare: From the party platform: "A single-payer National Health Program to provide free medical and dental care for all, with freedom of choice for consumers among both conventional and alternative health care providers, federally financed and controlled by democratically elected local boards.


Social Security: "Universal Social Security: Taxable Basic Income Grants for all, structured into the progressive income tax, that guarantee an adequate income sufficient to maintain a modest standard of living. Start at $500/week ($26,000/year) for a family of four, with $62.50/week ($3,250/year) adjustments for more or fewer household members in 2000 and index to the cost of living."
"The various Social Security privatization schemes, full and partial, would cost both the 'social' -- that is the public, cooperative, societal -- element of the program and 'security' -- the rock-solid income guarantee afforded by the system. It should be rejected." -- Statement of Ralph Nader At the "Saving Social Security From the Privatization Threat" Conference Rayburn House Office Building January 21, 1999


Trade: Ralph Nader said, "Millions of manufacturing jobs in this country have been shipped overseas. This transfer was supposed to be part of the "win-win" process of free trade. But 27 straight years of growing trade deficits makes one wonder: who's winning?"


Gun Policy: We believe in a citizen's right to self defense and to bear arms as constitutionally protected - we also believe it is inappropriate for criminals to have access to "killing machines", that is, assault rifles, automatic weapons, armor-piercing and "anti-personnel" ammunition. Therefore, we support the "Brady Bill" and thoughtful, carefully considered GUN CONTROL. --From the Green Party Platform 2000.


Abortion Policy: "Reproductive Freedom: People should be free from government interference in making their reproductive choices, including abortion, which should be covered by all publicly funded medical insurance programs.


Environmental Policy: The platform lists among other points, "Environmental Defense and Restoration: "Full funding for anti-pollution enforcement and toxic sites clean-up." "Preserve ecosystems and biodiversity by strengthening the Endangered Species Act and expanding areas designated as wildlife refuges and wilderness areas." "Ban old-growth logging, clear cutting, and strip mining." "End all commercial exploitation of public lands by private timber, mining, and cattle grazing interests." "Ban off-road vehicles on federal lands. Decommission National Forest logging roads."
While Nader may be aligned with the League of Conservation voters, they for pragmatic reasons are not aligned behind him. After the disputed 2000 Election Day said League president Deb Callahan said, "If Florida goes to Bush, it will clearly be Nader's fault... I think there will be a lot of anger and upset toward Nader, even from people who have fought side-by-side in key battles with him."


Minority Issues: "End Institutionalized Racism, Sexism, and Oppression of People with Disabilities: Strengthen civil rights, anti-discrimination, and affirmative action laws, programs, and enforcement." "African American Reparations: A national commission on reparations for African Americans."


Civil Liberties: No compromise on Civil Liberties and Due Process Rights for reasons of 'national security,' 'anti-terrorism,' or 'the war on drugs.'"

 

[Rusto]

Nah man, Nader is receiving funding from Pro-Bush groups. Hes admitted he has no chance of winning. All that he is doing now is stealing potential votes from Kerry. We gotta kick this redneck outta office by voting for kerry, even if you dont think Kerry is the best alternative, he is the best chance we got.

 

[KAH]

when the fuck did east co co fourm become the political fourm

 

[FunK-3-FivE]

Nah man, Nader is receiving funding from Pro-Bush groups. Hes admitted he has no chance of winning. All that he is doing now is stealing potential votes from Kerry. We gotta kick this redneck outta office by voting for kerry, even if you dont think Kerry is the best alternative, he is the best chance we got.

You should base your vote on what you believe, don't be a sheep and vote for kerry cuz everyone else is, or not vote for a candidate because you think they don't stand a chance. I don't see how you could ever expect to change anything politically if you make sheepish votes instead of voting based on views you share with other candidates.

Yes he probably won't win, but thats only because of people with similar ideals like you. I don't see Kerry as a much better alternative to Bush, he is jsut as corporate minded and war friendly, if not more.

Of course Bush supporters also support Nader, they know that he probably won't win and they recognize that he represents the views of many Kerry voters, so they figure why not make the liberal's votes split so that we can stay in office for another 4 years.
I'm anti-bullshit, which means i'm very anti-bush and also anti-kerry.

Cmon mayne, nader wants to legalize drugs, give people with felonies the right to vote, stop racism, get rid of U.S. war friendly policies and have good relations with the rest of the world without being so corporately influenced, stop bullshit wars like the war on drugs and the imperialistic war on terrorism.
Now neither Kerry nor Bush support these things^^^

 

[Rusto]

I feel you on that, but, I feel getting Bush out of office is more important than being a non-conformist at this point. ITs all about priorities

 

[Gz up 415]

yea but most of the people that would vote for nader are people looking to vote for someone other then bush and by not voting for kerry, a man who has a chance of winning, your actually helping bush by not voting for kerry

 

[chuck taylor]

if you think ralph nader has a chance of even coming close to winning the election then you must be off that dookie agua

 

[FunK-3-FivE]

yea but most of the people that would vote for nader are people looking to vote for someone other then bush and by not voting for kerry, a man who has a chance of winning, your actually helping bush by not voting for kerry

Do you realize what kerry's views are?...
He wants 2 keep troops in Iraq longer than bush wants 2
He wants 2 send more troops to Iraq because he believes we are only doing poorly in Iraq because we dont have enuf troops.
And he even said he would consider making military service mandatory(draft) to make sure we win this war on terrorism.
I don't want that cat in office, he is jsut as bad as bush mayn.

 

[FunK-3-FivE]

if you think ralph nader has a chance of even coming close to winning the election then you must be off that dookie agua

.....

You should base your vote on what you believe, don't be a sheep and vote for kerry cuz everyone else is, or not vote for a candidate because you think they don't stand a chance. I don't see how you could ever expect to change anything politically if you make sheepish votes instead of voting based on views you share with other candidates.

Yes he probably won't win, but thats only because of people with similar ideals like you. I don't see Kerry as a much better alternative to Bush, he is jsut as corporate minded and war friendly, if not more.

 

[Rusto]

Do you realize what kerry's views are?...
He wants 2 keep troops in Iraq longer than bush wants 2
He wants 2 send more troops to Iraq because he believes we are only doing poorly in Iraq because we dont have enuf troops.
And he even said he would consider making military service mandatory(draft) to make sure we win this war on terrorism.
I don't want that cat in office, he is jsut as bad as bush mayn.

no.
Kerry said he would begin retreat from Iraq before his term is over. Bush has not expressed such a plan.
No, he didnt say he would make military service mandatory, where did you get that from?!?!
man these 2 dudes are completely different, your just buying into the nader "lesser of 2 evils" bullshit

 

[FunK-3-FivE]

From Draft Notices (Committee Opposed to Militarism and the Draft (www.comdsd.org)), May - June, 2004


With Kerry as President, Our Work Would Be Just as Urgent
— Rick Jahnkow

If you were thinking "relief" is spelled K-E-R-R-Y, think again. John Kerry could be just as bad on the issue of militarism — more specifically, the militarization of young people — as the previous several administrations.

Besides the fact that Kerry advocates enlarging the military (imagine spending more on war making than we already are!) and supports continuing the occupation of Iraq, Kerry has a plan for national service that could be an intermediate step in the direction of mandatory civilian/military service.


Over the years, various organizations and politicians have unsuccessfully championed the idea of universal national service, where people would have to choose between military and civilian duty. Military conscription alone has been used in this country during the Civil War, WWI, and most of the WWII-Vietnam period. Attempts to have the Supreme Court declare the military draft unconstitutional never succeeded, and the last draft was ended by Congress mostly because it was helping to fuel a more general social and political rebellion during the Vietnam War. The idea of a draft for civilian service has been even less popular and has never picked up enough support to make it through Congress.



The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), which was formed in 1985 to move the Democratic Party in a more conservative direction, is one organization that has promoted the idea of universal military/civilian national service. It claims to support only voluntary national service, but in its 1988 Blueprint, the DLC proposed making all existing federal financial aid for students contingent on them doing one or two years of military or civilian service "at subsistence wages."

The danger of such plans is that they are the starting points on a path that could lead to mandatory military/civilian service. The general strategy would work like this:



1. First you campaign to get the public used to the idea that they have an obligation to "serve," with little distinction being made between serving the government and serving humanity.

2. Next, you gradually make college financial aid and other "privileges" (like health care, low-income housing, etc.) contingent on doing government-dictated work assignments.

3. Finally, after getting people acclimated to the above, you introduce a universal civilian/military draft where "service" is no longer voluntary.

John Kerry, a member of the DLC, has been promoting a national service plan in his presidential campaign that seems to be following the first two steps described above. Following are excerpts from Kerry's plan that illustrate his thinking on the subject. Note that he includes the forcing of colleges to accept ROTC in the context of a "voluntary" national service program. (Full text is available at http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/natservice)


(II) A MANDATORY HIGH SCHOOL SERVICE REQUIREMENT. As President, John Kerry will ensure that every high school student in America does community service as a requirement for graduation. . . Knowledge of the rights and responsibilities of citizenship — including the duty to serve your community — are as important to American adults as knowing how to read and do math. Combined with a curriculum that teaches students about democracy, citizenship and civic participation, this high school service requirement will be a rite of passage for every young person in the country. . . .



(VI) RECRUIT MORE AMERICANS TO THE MILITARY. The highest form of service is military service. America's military is having trouble recruiting and is increasingly relying on the reserves for active duty. John Kerry believes we must change that. The complicated missions we face and technologies we use depend on it. In a Kerry Administration, no university that receives federal aid will be allowed to ban the ROTC from their campus, except for religious reasons. And the ROTC scholarship program will be adequately funded so that students can attend the college of their choice. John Kerry will also make modernizing our GI benefits a top priority, because no program has been more successful increasing educational opportunities for veterans while also providing an incentive for the best and brightest to make a career out of military service.

Kerry's plan also proposes paying for 2-4 years of college tuition if high school graduates choose to do 1-2 years of national service. For the most part, this would be made possible by expanding the existing civilian service agency, AmeriCorps, and presumably, getting Congress to pass a very large increase in the AmeriCorps education benefit (currently under $5,000).

On the surface, expanding AmeriCorps and enlarging the education benefit for voluntary service is not a bad idea, but it's highly unlikely that the military would stand for this if it would create competition for recruiters. When AmeriCorps was established years ago, the Pentagon complained about the size of the education benefit that was proposed and succeeded in getting it reduced substantially to an amount that could not compete with the GI Bill.



In order to expand "voluntary" national service and not run afoul of the Pentagon, I believe Kerry would be more likely to resurrect the DLC's original proposal to make all federal student aid contingent on doing either military or civilian service. This is the intermediate step toward eventual universal, mandatory civilian/military service.



Even if a combined civilian/military draft were not the result, it's clear that Kerry is aligned with those who would impose militarism on schools and who believe that people have a duty to serve the state, as opposed to the other way around. If elected president, he could very well be the person who will sign a military draft bill if recruiting does not provide enough personnel for expanded military missions and a larger force size over the next few years.



When Democrats Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were elected, many people thought the "bad guys" were no longer in office, and we saw the typical phenomenon of peace and social justice activism losing strength and intensity. This is part of an unfortunate cycle that helps render our movements ineffective over the long term and results in more of the same crises that we strive to prevent (more wars, loss of ground on affirmative action, erosion of women's reproductive rights, increasing economic class disparity, etc.).



The lesson is this: vote for anybody-but-Bush if you wish, but no one should have any illusions about Kerry or the Democratic Party. Our only hope is that enough people realize that no matter what happens this November, we must commit to increasing — not decreasing — our activism!



This article is from Draft NOtices, the newsletter of the Committee Opposed to Militarism and the Draft (www.comdsd.org)

 

[FunK-3-FivE]

no.
Kerry said he would begin retreat from Iraq before his term is over. Bush has not expressed such a plan.
No, he didnt say he would make military service mandatory, where did you get that from?!?!
man these 2 dudes are completely different, your just buying into the nader "lesser of 2 evils" bullshit

You clearly got it twisted, do some research, and read the post i just posted. I didnt say he would start a draft, but in the first debate, he said he would consider it, and has gone further into depth as to what he means etc. etc..
You're clearly buying into the Kerry "lesser of 2 evils" bullshit.

 

[Rusto]

aight bud, Kerry is offering volunteer service if you need help paying for college.
HE said he would consider bringing back the draft? Show me the transcript.

 

[sacking916]

The bottom line is that we the middle class and poor are being represented by the rich. You have to understand that there is going to be some level of inequity towards us, and the future president is going to be somewhat subjective. How can we relate to two canidates that don't have the slightest adjacent life situations that we share?

 

[Rusto]

you cant go from a republican extreme right wing conservative to Ralph Nader overnight.
The first step is getting Kerry ( a liberal) in office, then maybe the next step would be a third party candidate. You gotta lay the groundwork first

 

[FunK-3-FivE]

aight bud, Kerry is offering volunteer service if you need help paying for college.
HE said he would consider bringing back the draft? Show me the transcript.

You obviously didnt read the post by Draft Notices, but anyways heres the excerpt of the first Debate:


KERRY: Well, I'll tell you exactly why not, but I first want to say something about those sanctions on Iran.

Only the United States put the sanctions on alone, and that's exactly what I'm talking about.

In order for the sanctions to be effective, we should have been working with the British, French and Germans and other countries. And hat's the difference between the president and me.

And there, again, he sort of slid by the question.

Now, with respect to Darfur, yes, it is a genocide. And months ago, many of us were pressing for action.

I think the reason that we're not saying send American troops in at this point is severalfold.

Number one, we can do this through the African Union, providing we give them the logistical support. Right now all the president is providing is humanitarian support. We need to do more than that. They've got to have the logistical capacity to go in and stop the killing. And that's going to require more than is on the table today.

I also believe that it is -- one of the reasons we can't do it is we're overextended.

Ask the people in the armed forces today. We've got Guards and Reserves who are doing double duties. We've got a backdoor draft taking place in America today: people with stop-loss programs where they're told you can't get out of the military; nine out of our 10 active duty divisions committed to Iraq one way or the other, either going, coming or preparing.

So this is the way the president has overextended the United States.

That's why, in my plan, I add two active duty divisions to the United States Army, not for Iraq, but for our general demands across the globe. I also intend to double the number of special forces so that we can do the job we need to do with respect fighting the terrorists around the world. And if we do that, then we have the ability to be able to respond more rapidly.

It's the moral responsibility for us and the world.

...Basically he speaks of how people in the service are going overtime and how there is already a shortage of military. And how the President has overextended the forces because 9 out of 10 duty divisions are currently in action. Then Kerry goes on to say how he plans to more than double the military forces in action to get the job done faster. Also Kerry has said he will impose mandatory service as a requirement among certain ages. Mandatory service not nessecarily meaning military service, but some sort of government approved service (including military service).
Figured it out? So it is in a way a plan of a draft, but not entirely because it is among options of a mandatory requirement(not very different from past drafts tho). Thats how he plans on doubling military forces.

 

[RIX]

YA'LL SHUD LISTEN TO IM COOL OFF THAT... HE KNOWS WTF HE TALKIN BOUT... VOTE FOR KERRY OR OR DIE 4 BUSH...1

 

[Rusto]

Now, with respect to Darfur, yes, it is a genocide. And months ago, many of us were pressing for action.

I think the reason that we're not saying send American troops in at this point is severalfold.

Number one, we can do this through the African Union, providing we give them the logistical support. Right now all the president is providing is humanitarian support. We need to do more than that. They've got to have the logistical capacity to go in and stop the killing. And that's going to require more than is on the table today.

I also believe that it is -- one of the reasons we can't do it is we're overextended.

Ask the people in the armed forces today. We've got Guards and Reserves who are doing double duties. We've got a backdoor draft taking place in America today: people with stop-loss programs where they're told you can't get out of the military; nine out of our 10 active duty divisions committed to Iraq one way or the other, either going, coming or preparing.

So this is the way the president has overextended the United States.

That's why, in my plan, I add two active duty divisions to the United States Army, not for Iraq, but for our general demands across the globe. I also intend to double the number of special forces so that we can do the job we need to do with respect fighting the terrorists around the world. And if we do that, then we have the ability to be able to respond more rapidly.

It's the moral responsibility for us and the world.

...Basically he speaks of how people in the service are going overtime and how there is already a shortage of military. And how the President has overextended the forces because 9 out of 10 duty divisions are currently in action. Then Kerry goes on to say how he plans to more than double the military forces in action to get the job done faster. Also Kerry has said he will impose mandatory service as a requirement among certain ages. Mandatory service not nessecarily meaning military service, but some sort of government approved service (including military service).
Figured it out? So it is in a way a plan of a draft, but not entirely because it is among options of a mandatory requirement(not very different from past drafts tho). Thats how he plans on doubling military forces.

Kerry was using this argument in the context that we are fighting terrorism ALONE in the world and without our ALLIES. That had NOTHING to do wit the draft.

 

[DJ Mark 7]

Kerry IS the only other choice tho man cause there is not a CHANCE IN HELL of Nader being elected....a vote for him is like a vote for Bush

 

[FunK-3-FivE]

Kerry was using this argument in the context that we are fighting terrorism ALONE in the world and without our ALLIES. That had NOTHING to do wit the draft.

"I also intend to double the number of special forces so that we can do the job we need to do with respect fighting the terrorists around the world." - Kerry
No. He is clearly talking about doubling number of special forces in the military. If you can't put 2 and 2 together you wont get it. kerry isnt going to go on national television and say, 'vote for me, i'll start the draft!'