Is looking at playboy a sin?
- Thread starter Mi$ta-Murda187
- Start date
Sorry, but this is a mindless distinction you are making. Sure, God desires everyone's salvation, but not that He is particularly interested in saving whores. How does this even have anything to do with the verses Red Sin supplied??
WTF is a "captain save a ho policy"? You think God tells men not to lust after women because He is trying to save ho's? A ho is a ho. A ho will find someone to lay down with her, regardless. What God is concerned with is those who are serious about spiritual life. So how do policies of not lusting after a woman constitute "save-a-ho"?
No. Eternal life is not reserved for those who fuck, look at and think of only one woman. The number is not the key to understanding the philosophy behind this. You can lust after one woman your whole life and that will still be sinful. And marriage doesn't actually mean anything unless it is understood as a discipline toward spiritual life. The ideal marriage discipline is that one should begin a family (children) and should engage everyone in spiritual culture. It is not that one should get some legal marriage document as an excuse to enjoy another person unlimitedly.
I explain the philosophy behind what constitutes a sin on Mi$ta-Murda187's other thread about sin. That will give you a good understanding of what I am talking about.
WTF is a "captain save a ho policy"? You think God tells men not to lust after women because He is trying to save ho's? A ho is a ho. A ho will find someone to lay down with her, regardless. What God is concerned with is those who are serious about spiritual life. So how do policies of not lusting after a woman constitute "save-a-ho"?
No. Eternal life is not reserved for those who fuck, look at and think of only one woman. The number is not the key to understanding the philosophy behind this. You can lust after one woman your whole life and that will still be sinful. And marriage doesn't actually mean anything unless it is understood as a discipline toward spiritual life. The ideal marriage discipline is that one should begin a family (children) and should engage everyone in spiritual culture. It is not that one should get some legal marriage document as an excuse to enjoy another person unlimitedly.
I explain the philosophy behind what constitutes a sin on Mi$ta-Murda187's other thread about sin. That will give you a good understanding of what I am talking about.
So basically unless a man has controlled his lust for women completely, he is not really serious about spiritual life? Are men who sleep with lots of women viewed negatively, according to the bible? I am asking these questions because the shit in the bible that I learned growing up really is a sort of "mental cockblocker" in your mind.
I can honestly say that I had something close to the mentality that the bible tells us to have regarding women and our relationships to them. This mentality leads to women trying to control you, and it happens to a lot of sad men. Once I realized how women are, I knew that everything in the bible regarding "woman+man= eternal loyal love" type of stuff was complete bull shit, kinda like Cockton's quote.
I agree with what you say about what marriage should be, but it most certainly isn't that. I don't see many happy married couples these days...
If you live that way, I respect you a lot for it. Religion would not be a bad thing at all if believers really lived that way.
But personally, I like seeking enjoyment for myself. I like to go out and try to conquer different women, I like to hit the ganja a lot, I like to drink every once in a while, and I don't feel selfish about it at all. I don't feel the need to serve a God either. I feel more of a need to help other people, and I pride myself in that. I try to keep myself in a good mood though because you can't help others when you're not happy, thus the "sins" I do.
Also, does serving others=serving God? I want to see if theists believe this, because obviously atheists don't find it equal...
I can honestly say that I had something close to the mentality that the bible tells us to have regarding women and our relationships to them. This mentality leads to women trying to control you, and it happens to a lot of sad men. Once I realized how women are, I knew that everything in the bible regarding "woman+man= eternal loyal love" type of stuff was complete bull shit, kinda like Cockton's quote.
I agree with what you say about what marriage should be, but it most certainly isn't that. I don't see many happy married couples these days...
If you live that way, I respect you a lot for it. Religion would not be a bad thing at all if believers really lived that way.
But personally, I like seeking enjoyment for myself. I like to go out and try to conquer different women, I like to hit the ganja a lot, I like to drink every once in a while, and I don't feel selfish about it at all. I don't feel the need to serve a God either. I feel more of a need to help other people, and I pride myself in that. I try to keep myself in a good mood though because you can't help others when you're not happy, thus the "sins" I do.
Also, does serving others=serving God? I want to see if theists believe this, because obviously atheists don't find it equal...
A man can be serious about spiritual life and still fall to lusty desires. It depends on how advanced the man is. It is not common, nor expected, that a man will give up all attachments at the drop of a dime. There is a process; a discipline. What really determines a man's seriousness is whether or not he is trying to make excuses for his actions, or trying to rationalize why certain self-gratifying activities are okay in some amount he defines as "moderate".
Also, it is not practical to just stop lusting. One cannot just stop desire. No matter what the Buddhists tell you, the desire function is fundamental to the individual. So the key is not to try and artificially negate desire, but rather to transform desire of the mundane into desire of the transcendental. More specifically, transform desire for lust over material gratification into desire for love of God. That is the principle taught in the Bible, as well as other world Scriptures. I personally follow the tradition of the Gaudiya Vaisnavas as per the Vedic Scriptures, and in my experience, they tend to handle the topic in a more in-depth and practical way than other traditions.
Marriage can be like that if both people are serious. Most of the time neither of the individuals are. So what you have is two people coming together based on some material qualifications that they have for each other. And just to be clear, "material" herein constitutes both the hard, tangible objects as well as the subtle mind. Some people like to think that the love for their spouse is beyond physical appearances, but it still boils down to the bodily conception of life. Because whatever mental similarities one person has with another, unless it pertains directly to God, it is based on the bodily conception of life. But at the same time, marriage is a discipline for those who are still somewhat attached to material life. So this goes back to what I said about spiritual life as a process. Everyone should know the goal and aim for it. Otherwise everyone is just being insincere and wasting their human existence.
I think it is a matter of striving to live that way. Sometimes we deviate due to old habits, so at the very least one should be sincere. Over time we will find that we fall down less and less.
Of course, everyone likes to enjoy. In the current situation we have some idea that we are enjoying independently, when we actually aren't. The desire to serve God doesn't come until there is first the realization of God. And as far as helping others goes, that has to correlate with knowledge of the self and it's relationship to God, otherwise any help is really only serving the body and not the actual person. Also notice how the so-called happiness you seek is merely temporary and you constantly have to seek more. Of course, the key for those who are serious and sincere is to proceed with the disciplined lifestyle even though they may still admittedly be greatly attached to material "happiness".
Real service toward others is automatically service to God because it is based on knowledge of the self and it's eternal relationship to the Supreme Absolute Truth, God. The type of service toward others you are most likely talking about is not actual service to the self, and thus not actual service toward God. What you are referring to is serving the material nature.
Also, it is not practical to just stop lusting. One cannot just stop desire. No matter what the Buddhists tell you, the desire function is fundamental to the individual. So the key is not to try and artificially negate desire, but rather to transform desire of the mundane into desire of the transcendental. More specifically, transform desire for lust over material gratification into desire for love of God. That is the principle taught in the Bible, as well as other world Scriptures. I personally follow the tradition of the Gaudiya Vaisnavas as per the Vedic Scriptures, and in my experience, they tend to handle the topic in a more in-depth and practical way than other traditions.
Marriage can be like that if both people are serious. Most of the time neither of the individuals are. So what you have is two people coming together based on some material qualifications that they have for each other. And just to be clear, "material" herein constitutes both the hard, tangible objects as well as the subtle mind. Some people like to think that the love for their spouse is beyond physical appearances, but it still boils down to the bodily conception of life. Because whatever mental similarities one person has with another, unless it pertains directly to God, it is based on the bodily conception of life. But at the same time, marriage is a discipline for those who are still somewhat attached to material life. So this goes back to what I said about spiritual life as a process. Everyone should know the goal and aim for it. Otherwise everyone is just being insincere and wasting their human existence.
I think it is a matter of striving to live that way. Sometimes we deviate due to old habits, so at the very least one should be sincere. Over time we will find that we fall down less and less.
Of course, everyone likes to enjoy. In the current situation we have some idea that we are enjoying independently, when we actually aren't. The desire to serve God doesn't come until there is first the realization of God. And as far as helping others goes, that has to correlate with knowledge of the self and it's relationship to God, otherwise any help is really only serving the body and not the actual person. Also notice how the so-called happiness you seek is merely temporary and you constantly have to seek more. Of course, the key for those who are serious and sincere is to proceed with the disciplined lifestyle even though they may still admittedly be greatly attached to material "happiness".
Real service toward others is automatically service to God because it is based on knowledge of the self and it's eternal relationship to the Supreme Absolute Truth, God. The type of service toward others you are most likely talking about is not actual service to the self, and thus not actual service toward God. What you are referring to is serving the material nature.
So basically, giving into desire shows weakness and lack of belief in God? Sounds like everyone is screwed...
I agree that everyone's goal should be to have a spiritual understanding of themselves and the world around them. I also agree that religion helps some people get there, but I believe that it misleads more people than it helps.
I believe that serving certain material nature, such as helping people eat, get clothing, get work, get governmental help, etc., IS actual service. If you are saying that the only real service that one can give another person is one that doesn't deal with material nature, than I guess I just disagree with you. Although spirituality is a very important part in becoming a whole and well-rounded human, I believe that certain things in the material nature must be met first, and this is the service I am talking about. Until then, I will not worry about spiritually saving anybody...
I agree that everyone's goal should be to have a spiritual understanding of themselves and the world around them. I also agree that religion helps some people get there, but I believe that it misleads more people than it helps.
I believe that serving certain material nature, such as helping people eat, get clothing, get work, get governmental help, etc., IS actual service. If you are saying that the only real service that one can give another person is one that doesn't deal with material nature, than I guess I just disagree with you. Although spirituality is a very important part in becoming a whole and well-rounded human, I believe that certain things in the material nature must be met first, and this is the service I am talking about. Until then, I will not worry about spiritually saving anybody...
Not what I said.
Real religion doesn't mislead.
Except that one is not a material being. One is spiritual, first and always. So spiritual knowledge and the application of such is eternally and objectively holding primary importance. That doesn't mean we shouldn't feed people or help them in other ways to sustain the body, but we should understand what is really important. Everyone can be fed sumptuously and then die and have wasted their human existence.
Real religion doesn't mislead.
Except that one is not a material being. One is spiritual, first and always. So spiritual knowledge and the application of such is eternally and objectively holding primary importance. That doesn't mean we shouldn't feed people or help them in other ways to sustain the body, but we should understand what is really important. Everyone can be fed sumptuously and then die and have wasted their human existence.
Sorry for misenterpreting then. Personally, I don't think lust or desires have anything directly to do with spirituality. Yes, they may get in the way of a person looking for the absolute truth (distractions), but I think a person can be immoral by biblical standards yet still be very spiritual. To me, when a person is spiritual, it means they completely understand themselves and their position in this world. This has very little to do with morals IMO...
Than there isn't much real religion in this world right now...
One is spiritual, but one never stops being a material thing. And a bullet to the head of any "spiritual" being will show anyone with any doubts. And I don't believe that spiritual knowledge holds primary importance, especially not over eating food and drinking water and other essential things to life. Yes, I admit that being spiritual makes people well-rounded and gives them a better understanding of everything. And no human existence is a waste, it is a gift, no matter what happens in a persons' life. Are you implying that if one is not spiritual and connected with God, than his life is a waste of human existence? This is something I most definitely disagree with. The fact that a person even exists in this world is a blessing, although it is a fucked up world that recieves them.
Than there isn't much real religion in this world right now...
One is spiritual, but one never stops being a material thing. And a bullet to the head of any "spiritual" being will show anyone with any doubts. And I don't believe that spiritual knowledge holds primary importance, especially not over eating food and drinking water and other essential things to life. Yes, I admit that being spiritual makes people well-rounded and gives them a better understanding of everything. And no human existence is a waste, it is a gift, no matter what happens in a persons' life. Are you implying that if one is not spiritual and connected with God, than his life is a waste of human existence? This is something I most definitely disagree with. The fact that a person even exists in this world is a blessing, although it is a fucked up world that recieves them.
A bullet to the head is just a bullet to the head. The spiritual soul is not affected by bullets. Though obviously the human facility can be lost with a bullet to the head. But at the end of the day we are all eternal, spiritual beings. We should use the human facility to understand and live this truth. An analogy can be made with a car. You are not the car. You are the person driving the car. Though the car is a good facility for traveling long distances. I am not saying we should ignore the vehicle. I am saying that the first and foremost importance is the person; the transcendental soul. Without that knowledge, everything else is zero. Lots and lots of zeros equal nothing but zero, but as soon as you place a 1 before them, you have a very large number. Knowledge of the self and how it is related to God is that 1 before all the zeros. In other words, material things can have value, but not in themselves. I hope that explains it better.
I offer my humble obeisances to my eternal spiritual master, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, from whom I got the above analogies.
I offer my humble obeisances to my eternal spiritual master, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, from whom I got the above analogies.
You guys should check out this book Every Man's Battle. It was recommended to me by a lot of my friends. I just picked it up the other day.
It seems as though you view life as just a means, while I most definitely view it as an end. Furthermore, I view religion as a means to help people with this life, and nothing more. Obviously, millions of people around the world feel very differently. The way I see people who "find" God is that they found complete understanding of themselves and the world around them, and have made a connection with the main energy source through Religion. Now, I believe there are other ways to make this spiritual connection that don't include a God or religion, but simply a person seeking to find it. The problem I find with some religious people is that they believe that their way is THE only way to connect to the source, while I have seen people of completely different ideologies come to the same type of spirituality and connection.
My main point is, I don't believe there is a set of rules one must follow to become connected spiritually, like the bible. Everyone has to find their own way, whether it be by using the bible or taking acid. Like I have said before though, I believe people need to look for this "connection" if they truly want to be happy and complete.
A Proposal for a Christian Pornography
September 28, 2005
Many readers have written in to ask us about pornography. Is it acceptable for Christians to view adult entertainment? Our stance on pornography is directly informed by our position on sex and sexuality with regards to Christianity. Depending on the circumstances, the act of intercourse can be either a defilement of the body and soul through lust and indulgence of the senses, or it can be a celebration of God-given sexuality that uplifts the bodies and spirits of both partners. Likewise, pornography could be either degrading and sinful (as it almost always is), or it could depict acts that, when viewed appropriately, could enhance the sexual and sensual relationships of believers.
Erotica with Biblical Foundations
Consider the Song of Solomon, a deeply sensual and erotic book of the Bible, which describes in lyrical detail the sexual and romantic relationship between a bride and bridegroom. Their dialogue relates to spiritual matters, but relates spirituality through a loving physical relationship between husband and wife. This is the model of erotic “edutainment” that we are proposing. We believe that under the right circumstances, and given the correct content, such adult media has the potential to enrich the sexual lives of married Christian partners.
Of course, there is little, if any adult entertainment currently on the market that reflects these values and would be a good choice for Christians. That leads us to call for a new kind of porn – porn that upholds the Christian ethos. Christ-centered porn, made to be viewed by Christians and tailored to their unique needs. We challenge Christians in the adult industry (yes, they do exist – and you know who you are) to step up and truly walk their walk and live their faith by producing pornography that men and women of God can view without compromising their relationship with their Savior, or their relationship with their spouse.
Christians have so many questions about sexuality: what is acceptable or not, how to express sexual desires to their husband or wife, how to have a more fulfilling sex life, and much more. Unfortunately, few in the church are willing to talk openly and in detail about these matters. Most sexual guides for Christians are vague or coy, glossing over graphic details. Believers need sexual resources that are unafraid to actually demonstrate and show them what healthy sexuality in a Christian marriage looks like. For these reasons, we believe there is both a need and a demand for Christian adult entertainment, and so we are issuing this manifesto calling for a new paradigm in pornography.
Toward a Framework for Christian Porn
The primary purpose of Christian pornography is to allow married Christian couples to better celebrate their sexuality in order to become more intimate with each other and enjoy a closer walk with the Lord. We envision married couples watching these films or videos together, using them to initiate a frank and open dialogue about sexuality and their own sexual relationship, and then applying the techniques illustrated in the films and incorporating them into their own lovemaking. Watching Christian porn is not intended to replace sex in the marriage, nor is its purpose simply to arouse the sexual appetites of the husband and wife, but to encourage them to use their sexual drives to a higher purpose.
The point of Christian pornography is not to provide material for the fantasies of individuals to use for their own gratification or to fuel masturbation. Although masturbation in itself is not wrong, the highest purpose of Christian porn is to enrich the sexual relationship between believers. It is not primarily intended to be used by individuals to inflame their own desires or as a substitute for a relationship. Under some circumstances, an individual might be justified in viewing this material on his or her own. For example, if the purpose of viewing the pornography is ultimately in the service of the marriage, if a man wanted to become better instructed in how to please his wife orally, or if a wife needed help getting in touch with her sexuality in order to be more open to intimacy with her husband.
Likewise, a single person might find Christian porn instructional if it better prepares them for relating to their future spouse. One of the complaints against conventional pornography is that it creates unrealistic expectations about sex and warps the viewer’s attitudes towards sexuality and the opposite sex. This argument could not be made against Christian porn, because it would be presenting a healthy and realistic representation of married Christian sexual life, and would be modeling correct and respectful husband-wife relationships, creating a positive vision for what can be expected in a future marriage.
http://www.sexinchrist.com/pornography.html
September 28, 2005
Many readers have written in to ask us about pornography. Is it acceptable for Christians to view adult entertainment? Our stance on pornography is directly informed by our position on sex and sexuality with regards to Christianity. Depending on the circumstances, the act of intercourse can be either a defilement of the body and soul through lust and indulgence of the senses, or it can be a celebration of God-given sexuality that uplifts the bodies and spirits of both partners. Likewise, pornography could be either degrading and sinful (as it almost always is), or it could depict acts that, when viewed appropriately, could enhance the sexual and sensual relationships of believers.
Erotica with Biblical Foundations
Consider the Song of Solomon, a deeply sensual and erotic book of the Bible, which describes in lyrical detail the sexual and romantic relationship between a bride and bridegroom. Their dialogue relates to spiritual matters, but relates spirituality through a loving physical relationship between husband and wife. This is the model of erotic “edutainment” that we are proposing. We believe that under the right circumstances, and given the correct content, such adult media has the potential to enrich the sexual lives of married Christian partners.
Of course, there is little, if any adult entertainment currently on the market that reflects these values and would be a good choice for Christians. That leads us to call for a new kind of porn – porn that upholds the Christian ethos. Christ-centered porn, made to be viewed by Christians and tailored to their unique needs. We challenge Christians in the adult industry (yes, they do exist – and you know who you are) to step up and truly walk their walk and live their faith by producing pornography that men and women of God can view without compromising their relationship with their Savior, or their relationship with their spouse.
Christians have so many questions about sexuality: what is acceptable or not, how to express sexual desires to their husband or wife, how to have a more fulfilling sex life, and much more. Unfortunately, few in the church are willing to talk openly and in detail about these matters. Most sexual guides for Christians are vague or coy, glossing over graphic details. Believers need sexual resources that are unafraid to actually demonstrate and show them what healthy sexuality in a Christian marriage looks like. For these reasons, we believe there is both a need and a demand for Christian adult entertainment, and so we are issuing this manifesto calling for a new paradigm in pornography.
Toward a Framework for Christian Porn
- * It must depict only married couples engaging in sexual acts. This means that any sexual partners in a Christian porn production must be husband and wife, both on and off screen. All actors must be married in real life and portray married couples onscreen. And they must only be depicted having sex with their wedded spouses.
- * It must portray sex within the context of a Christian marriage. It must be apparent through the actions, behaviors, and speech of the characters portrayed that they are Christian, lead a Christian lifestyle, and have a marriage in which their faith is central. This could be depicted in a variety of ways, with scenes showing a couple praying together, studying the Bible, attending church or church functions, and generally relating to one another as loving Christian spouses outside of the bedroom.
- * It must be instructional. Part of the mission of Christian pornography is to graphically educate married believers in how to achieve more sexual pleasure, intimacy, and closeness in their relationships. It can do this by dramatizing various sexual techniques and positions so that couples can learn how to incorporate them into their lovemaking routines. In their onscreen roles, the actors should model both correct sexual techniques and appropriate sexual attitudes, by being respectful and treating one another’s bodies as the sacred gift from God that they are.
- * Husband and wife must both receive their due benevolence. This is in keeping with the scriptural mandate of I Corinthians 7:3, which says “Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.” This means that both sex partners must be shown getting equal pleasure and sexual attention from one another.
- * No extramarital sex, unless it is to illustrate the downfalls of adultery. The spouses in a Christian porn production must never have adulterous relations, unless they (and their partner in extramarital crime) suffer and are punished fittingly for their sins. (In deference to modern conventions, the punishment does not have to be one mandated by scripture, i.e., being stoned to death.)
- * It must be uplifting and inspirational, focusing on strengthening Christian marriage and Christian faith. Christian porn must have an overall positive message. Of course, its primary message would be to demonstrate the sacred use of sexuality and sensuality to reinforce the bonds of Christian marriage. But in all other respects, it should affirm Christian values of community, family, faith, honesty, charity, and so forth. It should show that having a joyous and fulfilling married sex life is one of the fruits of following the path of righteousness.
- * No profanity. Although exclamations of pleasure are acceptable, as are the natural sounds and vocalizations of lovemaking, Christian porn should contain no profanity or swearing. The participants should address each other lovingly and respectfully at all times. Of course, it goes without saying that the actors will not take the Lord’s name in vain, nor that of his Son.
The primary purpose of Christian pornography is to allow married Christian couples to better celebrate their sexuality in order to become more intimate with each other and enjoy a closer walk with the Lord. We envision married couples watching these films or videos together, using them to initiate a frank and open dialogue about sexuality and their own sexual relationship, and then applying the techniques illustrated in the films and incorporating them into their own lovemaking. Watching Christian porn is not intended to replace sex in the marriage, nor is its purpose simply to arouse the sexual appetites of the husband and wife, but to encourage them to use their sexual drives to a higher purpose.
The point of Christian pornography is not to provide material for the fantasies of individuals to use for their own gratification or to fuel masturbation. Although masturbation in itself is not wrong, the highest purpose of Christian porn is to enrich the sexual relationship between believers. It is not primarily intended to be used by individuals to inflame their own desires or as a substitute for a relationship. Under some circumstances, an individual might be justified in viewing this material on his or her own. For example, if the purpose of viewing the pornography is ultimately in the service of the marriage, if a man wanted to become better instructed in how to please his wife orally, or if a wife needed help getting in touch with her sexuality in order to be more open to intimacy with her husband.
Likewise, a single person might find Christian porn instructional if it better prepares them for relating to their future spouse. One of the complaints against conventional pornography is that it creates unrealistic expectations about sex and warps the viewer’s attitudes towards sexuality and the opposite sex. This argument could not be made against Christian porn, because it would be presenting a healthy and realistic representation of married Christian sexual life, and would be modeling correct and respectful husband-wife relationships, creating a positive vision for what can be expected in a future marriage.
http://www.sexinchrist.com/pornography.html