Iran Election

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Aug 3, 2005
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Before - http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/06/irans_presidential_election.html

After - http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/06/irans_disputed_election.html

Its obviously sad to see iran in this state, especially as an iranian-american, and its blatantly clear that this was a rigged election, but at the same time I feel like the youth of Iran (60 % under 30 yrs old) is using this as an opportunity to voice their opinion and show their defiance and numbers, finally. I feel like the hopeful sort of feeling the Obama victory represented to many is what the youth of Iran was hoping to emulate, some beacon of light for the future or whatever. I think that that is a wishful thinking kind of place the blame/responsibility mentality, and that this obvious sham of an election may spark some actual initiative and may hopefully transform into something real for a change. Here's hopin

on a side note, i feel like they (the youth majority) also want America and it's people to recognize what is going on and how they feel as well, which may explain why so any of the protest signs are written in english
 
May 27, 2009
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#2
Man, hopefully the people are able to pull it off and get a change in their government.

on a side note, i feel like they (the youth majority) also want America and it's people to recognize what is going on and how they feel as well, which may explain why so any of the protest signs are written in english
My perception of Iranian people has definitely changed quite a bit because of this.

You know of any good English language Iranian blogs?
 
Jul 10, 2002
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#3
Whoever is 'president' is rather immaterial don't you think. The Ayatollah is still the one who will call all shots and set all policies correct?

It is good to see political unity rallied up in the street's, but my honest question (not being a cynic or trying to cause offense), do you think it is just a short term reaction, or does it represent a shift in nationwide ideals?
 
May 27, 2009
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#4
I think it could be a step in the right direction. If they're able to get someone slightly more progressive in office, some of the laws may start to change (especially concerning women's rights). In a few years some of the people out rioting will be in office and may be able to get rid of the Ayatollah.

Then again, if the people keep wanting their government to be based on the koran, their shit will always be some 7'th century tribal bullshit.
 
May 6, 2002
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#5
All elections are rigged, some countries realize it and some don't.

The citizens rioting like that are only going to make things worse and more strict, just like that last revolution they had. They took a chance with that revolution, but it didn't pan out. The people need to hit harder than they did in the 70s and maybe something good will happen.

Iran never got its feet off the ground ever since the end of Shah...
 
Aug 3, 2005
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#6
Whoever is 'president' is rather immaterial don't you think. The Ayatollah is still the one who will call all shots and set all policies correct?

It is good to see political unity rallied up in the street's, but my honest question (not being a cynic or trying to cause offense), do you think it is just a short term reaction, or does it represent a shift in nationwide ideals?
I agree that the President doesnt really make a difference. Iran is run by like 20 people, and i think the people know this too, but again I think this is a slap in the face and may be the last straw in a lot of peoples eyes.

I think after the last revolution, many rules were put in place and many liberties were lost, but from what i saw when i was there, the kids just learned to live with it and work around restrictions and live their lives. even tho voting may have been rigged and they knew that before, this is so obvious that its as if the citizens may as well not exist. whereas before they may have felt the voting process was skewed, its now all but lost.

wether this will make things better or not, and in what time span, i dont know. but i think it is a step towards unity. i think after the revolution the kids were too busy partying and doing drugs and what not that they didnt think standing together for something was possible, and even it was, i think they doubted it could cause change. but now we see government law and restrictions being toppled and ignored by many many people, which may change their minds.
 
May 11, 2002
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#7
Yeah I dont see the protesters making anymore progress then the Tibetans did with the Chinese government leading up to the Olympics. Sad but true, that's just the world we live in.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#10
I think we're getting to biased of a view point to get a realistic assessment of what really is going on in Iran - least of which being the accuracy of the vote.

I don't get my political news from myspace bulletins of 13 year old white girls in Utah.

But Iran? That takes too much effort. Tweets it is!
 
Feb 15, 2006
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#12
Did america or Israel have a hand in this?
probebly to what i've heard this is a a so called colour revolotion.it is same thing that happened in georgia and Ukraine and that they tried to pull of in Libanon and Burma but faild.Right after the election they go out and announce vote fraud ,they get people out in to the street, media makes it looke like it is much more people protesting than it really is, they have they have the cia pr firms prop up some guy that that aint really about shit.With this so called revolotion comes a colour and a slogan (in the case of Iran they have chosen the colour green in Ukrine it was orange etc)and the goal is to have what they call a soft power coup as in opposite to a military coup so they can replace who ever is in power with there own puppet.In the case of iran i think things are a little bit strange since both canditates seem to be loyal to khomeni and obama will work with iran regardless of who's in power.but for you who's familiar with Zbigniev Brzezinki and his grand chessboard knows that iran is supposed to be used as a pawn against Russia and thats why the us all of a sudden tries to build relations with iran. so my theory is that the obama adimistration like to see this Mousive guy in power because it would look better to the opinion at home if Mousive is in power.if the technics used in the colour revolotion seem familiar to any one it could be becouse the same technics was used by the obama campaign.
 
Aug 3, 2005
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#14
actually it was ahmdanijads camp that was proven to have photoshopped fake images depicting more protesters for him than there actually were by pasting pictures

also ahmadenijad controls the media and tried having them say that the protesters for the mousavi were actually for ahmadenijad

on top of that they announced the winner before the polls ended, with ahmadenijad winning with 80-100% of the votes for more than 30 cities, which is almost impossible, not to mention winning in places that are like just not likely (think bush winning over berkeley or something).

ahmadenijad also had control over the internet, and cut speeds BEFORE the election and began raiding student dorms and arresting kids for twittering and facebooking as that was the only way to report whats really going on
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#15
actually it was ahmdanijads camp that was proven to have photoshopped fake images depicting more protesters for him than there actually were by pasting pictures
Who proved it and where can we find info about this?

also ahmadenijad controls the media and tried having them say that the protesters for the mousavi were actually for ahmadenijad
See above. I know there has been blocking of internet sites and other outlets, but I've yet to see anything about what you just said. However, do you know if AIPAC was involved in bad mouthing Mousavi? If so, and according to various sources they were, how do you think that plays a role in all of this?

on top of that they announced the winner before the polls ended, with ahmadenijad winning with 80-100% of the votes for more than 30 cities, which is almost impossible, not to mention winning in places that are like just not likely (think bush winning over berkeley or something).
His opponent was declaring victory before the election even took place, and said the majority of the people were voting for him, so I don't know who to believe.

ahmadenijad also had control over the internet, and cut speeds BEFORE the election and began raiding student dorms and arresting kids for twittering and facebooking as that was the only way to report whats really going on
I've yet to read anything about cutting speeds or jamming before the elections. I've read about this happening after the elections and from what I've read, the reason given was to stop "tension" and "civil unrest." Witht hat being said, do you have anything to verify your claim about tampering with the net before the elections?
 
Aug 3, 2005
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#17
photoshopped ahmadenejad rallies


i havnt heard too much about aipac except that as the election was thought to be set in mousavi's favor they sent letters to american journalist swearing that hes a bad guy. also i know that there were large amounts of twitter accounts reported to have been created in israel at around the same time on the 13th, that were friends with just each other and only created to post faulty info in support for ahmadenejad

i was mistaken when i said the announcement was made before the polls closed. i meant they announced the winner about two hours after the polls closed, which when you consider that all the ballots are paper ballots and need to be counted by hand, reporting a 69% victory over mousavis 28 two hours later is pretty indicitive of fraud to me. usually the process takes about 3 days

The best evidence for the validity of the arguments of the three opponents of the President for rejecting the results declared by the Interior Ministry is the data the Ministry itself has issued. In the chart below, compiled based on the data released by the Ministry and announced by Iran's national television, a perfect linear relation between the votes received by the President and Mir Hossein Mousavi has been maintained, and the President's vote is always half of the President's. The vertical axis (y) shows Mr. Mousavi's votes, and the horizontal (x) the President's. R^2 shows the correlation coefficient: the closer it is to 1.0, the more perfect is the fit, and it is 0.9995, as close to 1.0 as possible for any type of data.
Statistically and mathematically, it is impossible to maintain such perfect linear relations between the votes of any two candidates in any election — and at all stages of vote counting. This is particularly true about Iran, a large country with a variety of ethnic groups who usually vote for a candidate who is ethnically one of their own. For example, in the present elections, Mr. Mousavi is an Azeri and speaks Turkish. The Azeries make up 1/4 of all the eligible voters in Iran and in his trips to Azerbaijan province, where most of the Azeri population lives, Mr. Mousavi had been greeted by huge rallies in support of his campaign. Likewise, Mr. Karroubi, the other reformist candidate, is a Lor. But according to the data released by Iran's Interior Ministry, in both cases, Mr. Ahmadinejad has far outdone both candidates in their own provinces of birth and among their own ethnic populations.


on top of all that, ahmadenejad is nowhere to be found! ud think for someone who won with such a big majority of the population he would be out celebrating and basking in crouds of support lol. he hasnt been seen in public since monday

none of this, of course, is hard evidence. but take into account that the shitload of us journalists invited to iran to cover the election are suddenly shunned and forced to stop covering elections and leave the country after the election results. this combined with the cutting of internet speeds and web access and complete media control would make any hard evidence scarce. twitter and facebook and shit may not be credible but its the only outlet available to anybody

im not saying for sure one way or another wether it was fraud or not, as theirs no smoking gun hard evidence to prove it. but there is a shit ton of fishy shit that i think warrants a revote.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#18
In regards to the shopped images, I would have to look at the original pic before I cast judgement on it. Moreover, I would have to know the origins of the pic and what was actually going on in the picture.

i havnt heard too much about aipac except that as the election was thought to be set in mousavi's favor they sent letters to american journalist swearing that hes a bad guy. also i know that there were large amounts of twitter accounts reported to have been created in israel at around the same time on the 13th, that were friends with just each other and only created to post faulty info in support for ahmadenejad
Hmmmm...so why would AIPAC want to support Ahmadenejad?

i was mistaken when i said the announcement was made before the polls closed. i meant they announced the winner about two hours after the polls closed, which when you consider that all the ballots are paper ballots and need to be counted by hand, reporting a 69% victory over mousavis 28 two hours later is pretty indicitive of fraud to me. usually the process takes about 3 days
No problem about the mistake, and this should be a concern. From what I've read over 20 million people took part in this election, so if the votes were counted by hand, it should have taken a bit longer and there is bound to be errors. However, on the surface it does seem strange, and I'm not discounting fraud or anything like that. I'm more concerned with who is pulling the strings and manipulating this situation to use it to their advantage.

The best evidence for the validity of the arguments of the three opponents of the President for rejecting the results declared by the Interior Ministry is the data the Ministry itself has issued. In the chart below, compiled based on the data released by the Ministry and announced by Iran's national television, a perfect linear relation between the votes received by the President and Mir ...... But according to the data released by Iran's Interior Ministry, in both cases, Mr. Ahmadinejad has far outdone both candidates in their own provinces of birth and among their own ethnic populations.

I chopped down part of your post for lenght constraints. I don't know where you got that pic from so I need to hit the links in the pic to see what's going on. However, based on the data provided by the chart, it does look suspect, and unless the candidates were absolutely hated, I highly doubt he would have crushed the candidates in their own provinces and among their own ethnic groups.

on top of all that, ahmadenejad is nowhere to be found! ud think for someone who won with such a big majority of the population he would be out celebrating and basking in crouds of support lol. he hasnt been seen in public since monday
Pros and cons to not making an appearance. On one hand it could be a safety issue, on another it could be to him being a lying cheat. On one hand it may benefit your cause by proclaiming your innocence and stating your faith in the system, on another hand it may put you in someones crosshairs.

none of this, of course, is hard evidence. but take into account that the shitload of us journalists invited to iran to cover the election are suddenly shunned and forced to stop covering elections and leave the country after the election results. this combined with the cutting of internet speeds and web access and complete media control would make any hard evidence scarce. twitter and facebook and shit may not be credible but its the only outlet available to anybody
See, I don't know if they are doing this to stop the west from having an influence or if they are doing this to cover fraud. You can look at it from both ways, and I'm up in the air on it. Regardless of all of that, it's a shame these people went out to vote and this is the madness that has come about.

im not saying for sure one way or another wether it was fraud or not, as theirs no smoking gun hard evidence to prove it. but there is a shit ton of fishy shit that i think warrants a revote.
Oh, it's suspect, very suspect, I'm just saying I don't have enough info to say what the hell is going on. I just hope they can get this resolved without more bloodshed and without influence from outside parties that probably don't have their best interest in mind.
 
May 13, 2002
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www.socialistworld.net
#19
Iran’s supreme leader sets stage for confrontation
By Peter Symonds
20 June 2009


With an uncompromising speech at Friday’s prayers, Iran’s supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has set the stage for a potentially bloody confrontation with opposition leaders demanding a re-run of the June 12 presidential election.


Tens of thousands have joined daily opposition protests in Tehran and other cities over the past week after the incumbent president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, defeated his principal rival, Mir Hossein Mousavi, by 63 percent to 34 percent. Both Mousavi and Mehdi Karroubi, the second “reform” candidate, have branded the outcome as rigged and rejected a proposal from the Guardian Council for a partial recount.

Immediately and virtually in unison, the US and Western media accepted uncritically the claims of massive electoral fraud by Mousavi, and continue to do so with scant evidence to back up their claims.

The American media has been particularly provocative in its coverage of the Iranian events. The Obama administration has largely relied on the media in its efforts to exploit the protests and the divisions within the clerical establishment, with the aim of destabilising Ahmadinejad, further isolating him internationally, and creating the conditions to replace him with a leader more amendable to US interests.

Iranian leader Khamenei, who rarely leads Friday prayers, used the opportunity to throw down the gauntlet to Mousavi and his chief backers—former presidents Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani and Mohammad Khatami. Speaking at Tehran University, he hailed the election turnout as “historic” and upheld the election result. Flatly rejecting accusations of rigging, he told his large audience that the opposition candidates should accept that “the Islamic Republic does not betray people’s votes.”

Khamenei called for an end to the opposition rallies, saying the election results should be decided at the ballot box, not in the streets. In a direct threat to Mousavi and his backers, he said, “Riots after an election put democracy at risk. If they don’t stop they must face the consequences. If there is any bloodshed, leaders of the protests will be held directly responsible.”

At the same time, Khamenei made an appeal to his opponents, noting that all candidates came from “within the system.” He added, “This is not a dispute for or against the revolution.” Khamenei also offered a small olive branch to Rafsanjani, mildly rebuking Ahmadinejad for branding the former president as corrupt during a television debate prior to the election.

Khamenei also appealed to his opponents’ shared concern that the political crisis could spiral out of control. They had to be careful not to act in an extremist manner, he warned. “The extremism will reach a level which they will not be able to contain. They will be responsible for the blood, violence and chaos.”

At the same time, Khamenei sharply drew the battle lines, openly throwing his lot in with Ahmadinejad. “Ever since the last presidential election there existed differences of opinion between Ahmadinejad and Rafsanjani,” he said, adding: “Of course, my outlook is closer to that of Ahmadinejad in domestic and foreign policy.”

The comments point to the rift within the Islamic regime. Mousavi and his supporters have been bitterly critical of Ahmadinejad’s more aggressive anti-US rhetoric, which has led to further sanctions, and what they contend is his profligate spending on handouts to the poor. They advocate using the opportunity of the Obama administration to seek a rapprochement with the US, implementing a pro-market agenda and opening up the Iranian economy to foreign investors. These tactical differences have only been sharpened by the country’s deepening economic crisis.

The line-up was evident at yesterday’s prayer service. Ahmadinejad sat in the front row, flanked by Ayatollah Mahmoud Shahroudi, the head of the judiciary, and by Ali Larijani, speaker of the majlis, or parliament. Several rows back was Mohsen Rezaei, a conservative, who was the fourth candidate in the presidential contest. Notably absent were Mousavi and Karroubi, both of whom had been invited to attend, as well as Rafsanjani and Khatami.

Khamenei clearly used his nationally televised speech to gather support. According to Iranian state television, the service was attended by a million people—comparable to claims made by the opposition about the size of their largest rallies. Again, the social divide between the base of support for the opposition and that for Ahmadinejad was evident. As the Guardian noted, the audience comprised “ordinary men, many of them poorly dressed, with a sprinkling of clerics, military personnel and war veterans.”

In the absence of a socialist alternative, Ahmadinejad’s right-wing populism, combined with a modicum of subsidies and social welfare programs, has won him a certain following about the urban and rural poor, in contrast to the better-off urban middle classes on whom Mousavi is based.

Khamenei also accused Western countries of trying to influence the election outcome and instigating unrest after Ahmadinejad was announced the winner. Significantly, however, he did not direct his main attack on the US, saying only that President Obama had been contradictory, offering talks and then expressing concern about the election. Khamenei singled out Britain as “the most treacherous” of the Western countries, prompting the British Foreign Office to call in the Iranian ambassador to London.

Yesterday, both houses of the US Congress overwhelmingly passed a bipartisan resolution condemning the Iranian government for violence against opposition protesters and for its restrictions on the media and Internet. In a debate laden with hypocritical posturing, Republican Bob Inglis, one of the resolution’s sponsors, declared that “rigged elections don’t produce outcomes that people can believe in”—apparently having forgotten Bush’s stolen presidential election in 2000.

Obama was more circumspect in his response. In an interview with CBS News, the US president declared that he was very concerned about the “tenor” and “tone” of some of the statements by the Iranian government, adding that it should be aware that “the world is watching.”

While clearly supportive of the extraordinary international media campaign backing Iranian opposition leaders, Obama is aware that any overt US intervention would only inflame political tensions. As he declared on Tuesday, it would not be “productive, given the history of the US-Iranian relationship, to be seen as meddling.” In a clear division of labour, Obama has outsourced the job of berating the regime to Britain and other European allies.

Khamenei’s anti-Western rhetoric is also directed against the Mousavi camp. The ayatollah told his political opponents to “open their eyes” and see that behind the demonstrations were “the enemy hands working, the hungry wolves waiting in ambush.” The deaths and violence of the past week he blamed on “ill-wishers, mercenaries and elements working for the espionage machines of Zionism and Western powers.”

The obvious threat is that opposition leaders will be branded as traitors and treated accordingly.

Within hours of the speech, Karroubi responded with an open letter to the Guardian Council reiterating the demand for fresh elections. “Accept the Iranian nation’s will by cancelling the vote and guarantee the establishment’s survival,” he declared. The Guardian Council is due to meet today with all four presidential candidates to discuss election irregularities, but it is not clear that either Mousavi or Karroubi will attend.

At this stage, there is no indication that Mousavi intends to call off a mass rally scheduled for today in Tehran. The city’s governor, Morteza Tamadon, has reinforced Khamenei’s message by declaring the protest to be unauthorised and demanding its cancellation. However, as all factions of the regime recognise, any back-down by Mousavi runs the risk that the protests could take a new and more dangerous turn.

The crisis is being fuelled by deep divisions within the regime. While Khamenei and Ahmadinejad have strong support in the military and security apparatus, including the huge Basij volunteer militia, sections of the business and clerical establishment are backing Mousavi.

Rafsanjani, who has been instrumental in Mousavi’s campaign, is reportedly in Qom to marshal support among senior clerics. He is the head of the Assembly of Experts, the body which can constitutionally discipline or even remove Khamenei. As well as being one of Iran’s wealthiest men, Rafsanjani as a prominent ayatollah may also try to call into question Khamenei’s religious credentials.

However, such steps threaten to unleash broader political turmoil, which the opposing factions of the ruling elite are both desperate to prevent. An intervention by the working class, beginning to raise its own demands and drawing in layers of the rural poor, would see the two bourgeois groupings rapidly set aside their differences to present a common front in containing and suppressing social unrest. For all his rhetoric about democratic rights, Mousavi and his supporters would be just as ruthless as Khamenei, Ahmadinejad and their backers.

The only way in which the working class can defend its independent class interests is by mobilising against all factions of the Iranian bourgeoisie. No credence should be placed in either the right-wing populist demagogy of Ahmadinejad or Mousavi’s empty declarations about democratic rights.

The genuine allies of Iranian workers are not to be found in the ranks of the competing factions of the reactionary clerical regime, but among working people throughout the Middle East and internationally, who are oppressed by the same bankrupt capitalist order. A struggle for workers’ power and a socialist Iran, as part of a global struggle for socialism, is the only road forward. That is the perspective advanced by the International Committee of the Fourth International. source
 
Jul 10, 2002
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#20
It's funny how so many people on this site believe how immaterial elections are here in the US for president, where he has actual power--vs. a completely rigged election between two extremist who's outcome is little more than a dog and pony show.

C'mon people The Ayatollah is the shotcaller no matter who wins and anyone should be able to see this.

Level of importance : LOW

Iran will turn more & more into a country like NK or the former Soviet Union-- the Armed Guards will create so much mistrust and everyone will spy on eachother and not talk down or question anything the gov't says.

IT will follow Dzerzhinsky's model of rule by open fear and terror--