Record sales isn't a fair comparison for actual talent. Some of the most talented rappers, in my opinion, don't sell that many records. But then you have some mainstream artists who end up selling millions of records because mtv & radio play thier songs. In some cases, the one song on the air was one of the 2 out of the 16 that were actually worth listening to. If I made fart sounds and recorded it then photoshopped a cool cover for the cd and put ICP on the top of it, ICP fans everywhere would be jumping in line to buy that shit. When the album was talked down on, ICP fans would say "It's the shit". I don't think they are the reason that underground artists have a starting point, although some underground artists may start with the ICP genre. In the end it all comes down to this...... ICP fans are hard headed and changing thier mind is like changing thier clothes... It's not gonna happen. This is the argument that will never end because everyone has an opinion and I don't see those changing anytime in the future. If you like ICP good for you, If you like george bush, good for you too, but personally I could care less about both of them. Burn me at the stake for stating my opinion, It's the Internet. The ICP hardcore mentality is all good and great, I just have a hatred of ignorant shit . In the grander scheme of things, it doesn't mean shit, argue all you want but ICP fans are just another spoke in the wheel of a force that is bigger than juggalo's.