I wish things were like they used to be..........

[70SAV]

Nobody cares, why? Because you'll get called a hater or an old man who's bitter. The fact of the matter remains, Hiphop is garbage now because everybody is out to make a fast dollar while they still can before it implodes.

The shit that amazes me is that some of these young fools feel like they have the right to just tell older cats and OGs to just lay it down like we have no say so in the matter. How in the fuck do you figure? Last I heard WE created this shit called Hip Hop/ Rap, so that would make it what? Thats right... OURS! Y'all got it twisted.

I don't know about the rest of you niggaz, but if I built a house with my own two hands, and shed blood, sweat and tears for it, I'd be damned if I'd let some little know nothin' ass rookie run my shit into the ground especially when he didn't do a lick of work and didn't have no respect for it in the first place.

What you need to do is to reasses the situation. Although it may be in a state of disrepair, you are still in OUR house. Maybe if you tried to get some game from the owners about the property, maybe then you'd have a better chance at renovating it. What you're doing now amounts to trying to tear down a solidly built house with a firm foundation, in order to throw up some flimsy little shack that will only last for a couple of years at best.

I was a young nigga once, so I know that young niggas think they know everything. The reason why is cause you aint had your ass handed to you enough. The simple fact is that we DO know more than you, and thats not hatin', thats just a fact. We SHOULD... we've BEEN here longer than you.

Youngsters are by nature short sighted. They could give a fuck about the past and cant see farther than their immediate needs into the future. If you would take the time to look back you'd see that most of the mistakes you're making right now, have already been made. Proven solutions have already been worked out and implemented. Your problem is that you're so hard headed and arrogant that you would rather re-make the exact same mistakes than ask for help or guidance.

All these way too crazy colorful clothes and wild ass dancin and shit has a short lifespan. It's bad business. Ask Kid N' Play or Kwame or anyone involved in the disco era. The shit is too fadish, and commercializes the music to a point where it becomes passe, not to mention that in the future you'll look back at pictures of yourselves and realize how foolish it all really does look. Anything that is good people will over do. Stop overdoing it. Mac Dre had an outrageous style about himself, but he didn't overdo it. For the most part he dressed regularly but usually wore one item of clothing that stood out like a conversation piece. Thats cause he understood that doin to much usually makes you look as if you're tryin too hard, which will eventually make you end up looking like a clown.

If you'd look to the future you'd see that trying to build a new house with no experience or help is destined for failure. How can you expect any other result? I've been hearin' a whole lot lately about these so called "myspace rappers" and how they need to just stop it, but honestly, I think that's EXACTLY where most of these new rappers belong. First off the shit is free, and it's good place to hone your skills, get feedback, and gain a following instead going out and wastin a gang of loot by prematurely pressin up CD's and DVD's that nobody is gonna buy. Right now you're just glutting the market. Nobody has time to sift through all the bullshit the bay puts out just to find one diamond in the rough, and with the cost of CDs bein as high as they are nobody wants to take a chance on untested material only to end up with a new coaster or miniature frisbee.

Of course the Bay Area rap scene has alot more issues that need to be addressed before we can reclaim our status in the rap world but I don't think we need to put the condemned sign on the door just yet. Just start taking more time with your music and lyrics, try and be more original, and actually try to market yourself before stepping into the arena. And please, please, PLEASE!!!! Stop with all this, "we need to start supporting each other!" Bullshit. It makes us look real insecure. Stand on ten toes nigga. Take responsibility for your part in the game. If your shit is nice, it will sell. If it ain't, work harder. If you can't keep up, get the fuck outta the way. In the end real shit sells and bullshit dwells and if there is enough demand, the industry WILL return, Major deals WILL get signed, and we WILL get airplay...

 

[Boogie The Mann]

The shit that amazes me is that some of these young fools feel like they have the right to just tell older cats and OGs to just lay it down like we have no say so in the matter. How in the fuck do you figure? Last I heard WE created this shit called Hip Hop/ Rap, so that would make it what? Thats right... OURS! Y'all got it twisted.

I don't know about the rest of you niggaz, but if I built a house with my own two hands, and shed blood, sweat and tears for it, I'd be damned if I'd let some little know nothin' ass rookie run my shit into the ground especially when he didn't do a lick of work and didn't have no respect for it in the first place.

What you need to do is to reasses the situation. Although it may be in a state of disrepair, you are still in OUR house. Maybe if you tried to get some game from the owners about the property, maybe then you'd have a better chance at renovating it. What you're doing now amounts to trying to tear down a solidly built house with a firm foundation, in order to throw up some flimsy little shack that will only last for a couple of years at best.

I was a young nigga once, so I know that young niggas think they know everything. The reason why is cause you aint had your ass handed to you enough. The simple fact is that we DO know more than you, and thats not hatin', thats just a fact. We SHOULD... we've BEEN here longer than you.

Youngsters are by nature short sighted. They could give a fuck about the past and cant see farther than their immediate needs into the future. If you would take the time to look back you'd see that most of the mistakes you're making right now, have already been made. Proven solutions have already been worked out and implemented. Your problem is that you're so hard headed and arrogant that you would rather re-make the exact same mistakes than ask for help or guidance.

All these way too crazy colorful clothes and wild ass dancin and shit has a short lifespan. It's bad business. Ask Kid N' Play or Kwame or anyone involved in the disco era. The shit is too fadish, and commercializes the music to a point where it becomes passe, not to mention that in the future you'll look back at pictures of yourselves and realize how foolish it all really does look. Anything that is good people will over do. Stop overdoing it. Mac Dre had an outrageous style about himself, but he didn't overdo it. For the most part he dressed regularly but usually wore one item of clothing that stood out like a conversation piece. Thats cause he understood that doin to much usually makes you look as if you're tryin too hard, which will eventually make you end up looking like a clown.

If you'd look to the future you'd see that trying to build a new house with no experience or help is destined for failure. How can you expect any other result? I've been hearin' a whole lot lately about these so called "myspace rappers" and how they need to just stop it, but honestly, I think that's EXACTLY where most of these new rappers belong. First off the shit is free, and it's good place to hone your skills, get feedback, and gain a following instead going out and wastin a gang of loot by prematurely pressin up CD's and DVD's that nobody is gonna buy. Right now you're just glutting the market. Nobody has time to sift through all the bullshit the bay puts out just to find one diamond in the rough, and with the cost of CDs where they, are nobody wants to take a chance on untested material only to end up with a new coaster or miniature frisbee.

Of course the Bay Area rap scene has alot more issues that need to be addressed before we can reclaim our status in the rap world but I don't think we need to put the condemned sign on the door just yet. Just start taking more time with your music and lyrics, try and be more original, and actually try to market yourself before stepping into the arena. And please, please, PLEASE!!!! Stop with all this, "we need to start supporting each other!" Bullshit. It makes us look real insecure. Stand on ten toes nigga. Take responsibility for your part in the game. If your shit is nice, it will sell. If it ain't, work harder. If you can't keep up, get the fuck outta the way. In the end real shit sells and bullshit dwells and if there is enough demand, the industry WILL return, Major deals WILL get signed, and we WILL get airplay...

I agree with everything you just wrote.About creating a buzz on myspace instead of wasting money on albums and flyers before your known, to current rappers not thinking about longevity.Your on point 100 and I appreciate your say in this cuz it does matter.

 

[70SAV]

No problem mayne. I know everybody probably aint feelin what I have to say yet, but just let 'em bathe in it for a while, it'll soak in.

See, cat's be so driven to find the secrets to success they often overlook the process of elimination. If you just do your homework on whats already gone on in this game then you'll have a good idea of what doesn't work. Once you know what doesn't work you'll no longer have to make those same mistakes and it will free up your time and resources to explore other more profitable avenues.

Stop blindly following current trends. They very well could lead you off the true path. Whats gone on in the past is the best indicator of what will happen in the future and if the bay ever gonna get it's due you young cats are just gonna have to face that fact...

 

[short]

blame the damn radio like a couple dudes already said
nobody wants to hear cofee shop 17 times a day

 

[Doc Truth]

Great thread. This can't die. Back in the day radio played some trash. Keyword. SOME. While at the same time you'd have some real good music in the mix as well. Now what the fuck do they play besides "Dance or Club" shit? If it aint R&B all the hiphop shit is on some wack ass club trash. ALL of it. Ok fine when i'm at the club but 24-7 on the radio with no variety? Pure garbage! I swear it aint because i'm in my late 20s but I swear back in the early-mid 90s KMEL and WILD 107.7 played some really dope shit and their format was mad different. Battle of the rappers at 9. Marcos Gutierrez on the 9 o'clock beat , sway and joe quixx. Even Franzen and Trace would have a dope ass show. WTF

 

[NinoBlakk]

Lets get one thing understood all south music doesnt sound like that. What we have presented is commerical south music thats dominating the charts off bullshit rap. Trust me the same way the bay is more than just E-40, Snoop Dogg and the hyphy movement know that the shit on tv doesnt represent the south it represents the corporate music industry that has set a new standard on what they want to deliver to the world.

One thing we gotta realize is everybody can rap now because you can get a mic, an online recording program, a beat program and feel like your the next to get a deal. Back in the day you had to work your way up through development, slangin out the trunk, local shows and building your name up eventualyl getting your shit heard by a record exec. Now a days you just make the newest hyphy hit or the latest trend/dance song with out any experience recording professionaly and you get a deal. As you can see these same people are usually only good for that one hit and thats it. The labels know this shit isnt talent but its easier to market some bullshit thats catchy and already buzzing than it is to get a man with pure talent that may take some image consulting or some molding to get him to sell what they think is appropriate.

 

[s-class]

SHIT AINT GONE CHANGE UNTIL THE ONE'S COMPLAININ TURN THE DAMN RADIO OFF AND TELL THE CONGLOMERATE FAT CATS WE WANNA CONTROL OUR MUSIC

 

[Skizzy Ske]

Lets get one thing understood all south music doesnt sound like that. What we have presented is commerical south music thats dominating the charts off bullshit rap. Trust me the same way the bay is more than just E-40, Snoop Dogg and the hyphy movement know that the shit on tv doesnt represent the south it represents the corporate music industry that has set a new standard on what they want to deliver to the world.

One thing we gotta realize is everybody can rap now because you can get a mic, an online recording program, a beat program and feel like your the next to get a deal. Back in the day you had to work your way up through development, slangin out the trunk, local shows and building your name up eventualyl getting your shit heard by a record exec. Now a days you just make the newest hyphy hit or the latest trend/dance song with out any experience recording professionaly and you get a deal. As you can see these same people are usually only good for that one hit and thats it. The labels know this shit isnt talent but its easier to market some bullshit thats catchy and already buzzing than it is to get a man with pure talent that may take some image consulting or some molding to get him to sell what they think is appropriate.

thats as real as it gets homie. i try and support every region of music there is just because i like music in general.
________
new developments in Pattaya

 

[70SAV]

You gotta realize, that radio station program directors and record company A&Rs don't just randomly pick up whatever suits their own tastes. First and foremost it's their muthafuckin J.O.B. thats on the line. It's how they feed themselves and their loved ones. To those of you who dont know, these jobs have VERY high turnover rates. The reason is, because the decisions made by THESE people are what generally causes a radio station or record label to gain or loose profits. If the radio station starts to lose listeners, or the record company signs an artist to a deal where THEY lose money, These are the people who end up in the unemployment line, ya dig?

Although it may seem like it to some of you, Bay Area rap as it stands now, as well as historically, is not what the masses want. What they want is what you hear. Believe it. The bottom line is that they are businesses and if the masses wanted to hear goddman me Polka music... The thats what they would play. Simple fact is Bay area rap with the exception of Pac, Hammer, Short, and to some extent 40, as well as a random list of one hitters, is not mainstream enough to bring in the dough that these companies need to earn the profits they expect. To be honest bay area artists are too one dimensional for the masses.

The reason why Pac was an exception was that he was complete package. He had what most rappers today lack, and that is charisma. He looked like a star, he behaved like a star, he rapped, he acted, and he was very controversial. He had the backround and history that legends are made of, he was a poet, and he wasn't afraid to contradict himself in his lyrics because he understood the duality of a man's nature (that one day you feel can feel bad for Brenda but the next day you realize that the bitch might have brought it on herself). He also knew how to convey the fact that alot of the time he was only occupying the narrator's position in his songs.

Hammers shit was catchy as fuck. Just what the masses want... feel good dance music. And could that nigga put on a show or what? I mean this niggas stage show looked like Barnum and Bailey's. Explosions! Shiny clothes! Half nekked dancers doing INTRICATE dance routines! Face it, when fools start arguing over who was a better dancer... him or Michael Jackson... his fortune was made.

Short is a whole 'nother story. He is what you call an ICON. He's like the Richard Pryor of Rap. Ask anyone in the game. He is respected throughout the ENTIRE entertainment industry. The phrase Biiiiiyatch is now a house hold word. He gained his position through word of mouth, never changed his style and he consistently went platinum without ANY airplay. Why? Because he was entertainments dirty little secret. Because he made that shit that everybody gets a bar of and has to tells someone else about. Because he gained 800,000 LOYAL fans who would buy his albums, so all he really had to do was sell like 200,000 to the curious and BAM! another plaque was born. He also didn't take himself too seriously. When asked why he called women bitches and rapped dirty, he quickly let people know that his name was Todd Shaw and Too $hort was a character made up from his imagination and that it was all in good fun.

Cats fail to realize that E-40 captured widespread attention not because he was the tightest rapper in the world but because at the time he was the most game infested. He WAS a BUSINESS... man! The industry couldn't believe that this nigga was sellin CD's like he was independently and basically out the trunk. He was the first rapper to sign a multimillion dollar deal and they immediately put him on magazine covers and tagged him as the 3 and a half million dollar man. If it wasn't for 40 the Independant music game would not be what it is today, PERIOD.

Now you as artists gotta really step back and ask yourselves. Is there anyone in the bay that deserves to stand next to these niggas? Dre had it (T.I.P.) but sadly he never got to see it actually happen in his lifetime.
Do you actually and honestly think that YOU have it? I'll tell you what I see... a bunch of niggas that look and sound like the nigga next door, and that's on the real. The beats are watered down and simplistic, the lyrics are repetitive and without substance, and the business savy is sorely lacking. Don't get me twisted, I am far from on the backpacker tip. But YOU niggas aint sayin SHIT!

See, when NWA came the public thought that these niggaz was just on some bitch-kill-fuck-tha-police-gangsta-bullshit. But looking back on it all we all now see the political substance, and ramifications of the lyrics. These niggaz were SAYING somethin. We were the only ones who understood it at the time and now were grown and in positions of power and the shit resonates in our subconcious and permeates our thinking and descision making processes.

What exactly are we saying right now? We're going dumb? Ya know... I think we probably are... We are systematically dumbing down an artform that we all used to love and now mostly hate or couldn't care less about...

 

[gia paloma]

I agree with 70sav...if we was at a spot, I would by you a beer. Hip Hop/rap sucks and has sucked greasy monkey cock for a while... NOBODY is saying shit...nobody. And what is really sad is that when artists with proven track records come out, few pay attention. Case in point the rapper Paris, he still makes music, but he gets major shine overseas and he is anonymous here. Just my few

 

[TAY CAPONE1]

a lot of people feel they can just go 2 the studio & make something that sounds tight 2 them & that they should make it..as far as youngstas go,sometimes they don't even understand the business of it..they feel like they can spend a couple raccs on studio time & make some good songs & they should be platinum...i sold 40,000 copies of snake eyes which is good 4 an independent artist but we spent about 200 grand on 1 album...that included promotion,manufacturing,studio time,features & paying top dollar so i could have some beats that appealed 2 the masses...if i would have got on the road & promoted properly i probably could have sold more but the big dawgs in the game are not as fond as we think of the independent hustle...they want 2 make money 2..& if they don't lucratively see a way 2 do that you can be the tightest rapper in the world but in their eyes it's not a smart investment...i push my young niggas 2 read some literature on the music business so when they don't blow up overnight they're not mad at me..it's a risky business & if you ask me the key is taking advantage of the opportunities given & remaining humble..there are laws of nature in every game we play...including this rap game...i've came on here & preached about what i felt needed 2 be done 2 bring the west or even the bay bacc 2 the forefront becuz there is a solid following but it's more 2 it than most of us believe..my personal theory is...good music does sell..whether it's in the store or on the streets or on the internet..it takes time,effort & hard work 2 make it in this business & when everyone understands that & stops complaining maybe GOD will shine the light on this side again...keep grittin!!PIIMP/WCM100

 

[Justin]

^^WHAT ARE THE REST OF THE NUMBERS OF ALBUMS SOLD ON YOUR END???

 

[martin_07n]

who the fuck is forcing you to listen to that shit? you have options!

 

[LurccH918]

i know one thing, ive bumpin some mid 90s to early 2000s shit more than anything thats been dropping the past few years

 

[70SAV]

a lot of people feel they can just go 2 the studio & make something that sounds tight 2 them & that they should make it..as far as youngstas go,sometimes they don't even understand the business of it..they feel like they can spend a couple raccs on studio time & make some good songs & they should be platinum...

Absolutely one of the biggest problems today. The lack of objectivity is astounding. Let me say this to you youngstas out there... We know YOU think your shit is tight. You wouldn't have made it if you didn't. But before you go out and press up your CD's and DVD's you need to get more feedback on on your product. Otherwise you may be not only wasting your valuable time, money, and resources, but you may be adding to an already glutted and oversaturated market, making it harder for other artists who do have a viable product to shine through.

You're probably asking yourself why the fuck should I care about someone else shining? Well I'll tell you... It's a fact that major label A&Rs scout areas where there are already artists who are doing well. In their estimation, "where there's smoke, theres fire". It is in your best interest to take that extra time to hone your craft and to create a quality product even if other cats are beating you to the shelves or even to the deals. Always remember this... the last chicken over the fence is always going to get the better deal in this industry. Thats because if you do your homework on the deals that have gone before you, then you can negotiate from prior points of reference and presidence...

the big dawgs in the game are not as fond as we think of the independent hustle...they want 2 make money 2..& if they don't lucratively see a way 2 do that you can be the tightest rapper in the world but in their eyes it's not a smart investment...

No Doubt... you must also understand whats REALLY in it for them. Don't get big headed and think your measly record sales are a drop in the bucket to them. If you aint multi-platinum most likeley your a pawn. See, we somewhat sold our souls to the devil when we started signing major deals back in the day. What alot of cats didn't realise is that many of the deals that were made, were not about how tight the artist was or how many albums he could sell, it was basically an information buyout and about squashing the independent market.

Understand this... Back then, to the amazement of the entire country, the bay figured out how to go around the tradition distribution routes and became known for it's independent hustle. Ways that were unknown to the majors. What they did know was that a consumer only has so much money to spend on CD's, so every dollar in an independant pocket is a dollar OUT of a major pocket. For example... if a kid walked into a record store with his allowance of $20, he had a choice, he could either buy the new Killa Tay album or he could buy the new Michael Jackson joint. Now he's feelin both artists, but he can't get 'em both, so he's gotta make a decision. If there is no Killa Tay album on the shelves then he's was gonna be bumpin MJ till he gets his next allowance, ya dig. So the majors needed to figure out a way for there NOT to be any Killa Tay albums on the shelf. They did that by releasing their artists in blocks. Major chain stores could only take so many releases at once and that meant that Killa Tay would get "Blocked" out of the store. But see, they couldn't do that with the "Mom and Pop" distribution that we were puttin down out here in Northern Cali. They had no information on these stores or on how we were running our independent companies. So what they did was start signing subsidiary label deals with the most profitable independents we had. The way they snaked us was that they let us run our labels pretty much the way we were used to, but then guess what? The contracts we signed stated that for accounting purposes they had access to our books and financial records... Whats in those records I ask you... Thats right... The game, the whole game and nuthin' but the game (are you with me?).

Now how does this affect independent sales? Well for one, you ever notice how long it takes to get your shit pressed by some manufacturing companies like Rainbow Records at certain times of the year? Back in the days the turnaround was alot quicker. It's not because theres hella independents are all trying to get pressed at the same time, it's because those are the dates that the Majors block out for their overruns now. Who are these manufacturing companies gonna be more apt to worry about, YOU or a multinational major record label contract?

I remember the year when C-Bo hit the charts and the only people ahead of him was like Stevie Wonder and like Anita Baker or somebody. He probably could have gone to #1 but he was always sold out. Some say his label couldn't press up enough copies quick enough to match the majors who always had copies on the shelves. Now why would that be?

Ever gone into a mom and pop and asked if you could put up a poster. Back in the day it was never a problem. Nowadays you're likeley to get shut down with the reply that they would have to get permission from the home office? Now, where exactly IS the home office again?... (you gettin the picture yet?)

I could go on and on, but lets just say that every aspect of the independent hustle that we invented has been basically stolen (or bought for pennies if you wanna look at it that way) and implemented on a greater scale by the majors, to either outsell the independents, or to block them. Things may be done a LITTLE differently but thats only because they've had time to refine the game, but if you look closely you'll see what I mean.

Long story, short (too late for that I'm afraid) the majors came, saw and conquered us, and then left us for dead without even leaving our independent hustle in tact. So a word to the wise... In your enthusiasm to sign a deal be careful what trade secrets you give away. The majors WILL fuck you and leave you layin there with your ass bleedin if you let 'em...