How should things be then?

[The Last Word]

I definately like reading a lot of the theories and skepticism on this board but to me it seems like everyone here is real good at pointing how what "the powers that be" are doing wrong instead of giving any input as to how things could be better. We have a lot of people here resigned to the idea that the government is full of shit (I'm not saying one way or the other). How should they be then?

No one here is in any position to actually make a change. Not saying you don't have the right to speak your mind, but all I ever see is complaints and nothing that resembles solution.

To be fair, I don't read EVERY thread on this board, so I may have missed out on some things.

My question is - How should things be?

 

[2-0-Sixx]

A lot of people have came in here and said that we all bitch and don’t do shit. Well, for the most part that’s true- the purpose of this forum is to discuss all sort of topics. Some us however are politically active and on the streets daily fighting for change, including yours truly. If you search, I’m sure you can find a thread about all the things I’m currently active with.

Not quite sure what you mean by “How should things be?” but a short and simple answer is that I am a socialist and I believe the only answer to the massive global problems is socialism. Capitalism has outlived its useful purpose and is in rapid decay. If we don’t eventually change then we may find ourselves living in barbarism.

 

[The Last Word]

lol .. I need to do some reading.

How would socialism HELP anything?

 

[TROLL]

A lot of people have came in here and said that we all bitch and don’t do shit. Well, for the most part that’s true- the purpose of this forum is to discuss all sort of topics. Some us however are politically active and on the streets daily fighting for change, including yours truly. If you search, I’m sure you can find a thread about all the things I’m currently active with.

Not quite sure what you mean by “How should things be?” but a short and simple answer is that I am a socialist and I believe the only answer to the massive global problems is socialism. Capitalism has outlived its useful purpose and is in rapid decay. If we don’t eventually change then we may find ourselves living in barbarism.

Aye 2-0-sixx... The socialist political theory is reletively new too me but from the definition i got.. wouldnt it give more power too people like bush??? enlighten me homie

 

[DeceptaKhan]

i know that imperialism is ruining america,but iv been in france since april, and even though the government isnt socialist, you ask anybody and theyll tell you that france is socialist,straight up, and its got some major problems,economy isnt close to anything in america,thing with socialism is everybody gets paid the same, so when one dude sees his neihbor work less and make the same,dude decides to work less as well as all his union workers.Quality of life is way different,here people work to live,unlike in america were people live to work.yo 2 0 sixx,can you define the big points between communism and socialism,i always thought that socialism was like a more realistic/practical system that had capitalism in mind,but still equality.this aint really to the topic but iv always wanted to know the differences

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Aye 2-0-sixx... The socialist political theory is reletively new too me but from the definition i got.. wouldnt it give more power too people like bush??? enlighten me homie

No! The exact opposite, the working class would have power and there would be no rich.

Where did you get your definition?!?

 

[TROLL]

Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: 'sO-sh&-"li-z&m
Function: noun
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done


"Governmental ownership" got me trippin

 

[2-0-Sixx]

i know that imperialism is ruining america,but iv been in france since april, and even though the government isnt socialist, .... 2 0 sixx,can you define the big points between communism and socialism....

You shouldn’t judge socialism because you live in France! A country that you admit is not socialist!

In Marxist terms, Socialism is the transitional period between capitalism and communism. However this can be very confusing since there are a number of “socialist” parties that are nothing of the sort, and there are a number of communist parties that are not communist and on top of that a lot of people associate "communism" with Stalin's totalitarian USSR, which was not communist, in fact it was very anti-communist (see Trotsky’s - ‘The Revolution Betrayed’ and ‘Russia: How the Bureaucracy Seized Power by George Collins).

For Marxists, “socialism is a transitional phase between the exploitative capitalist system of private property of the means of production, and the classless society of communism, where there is no longer a state in the proper sense of the word, no compulsion to work, no national borders, etc.”

Under capitalism, society is controlled by a handful of rich elite who exploit the working class in order to make profit. Under socialism/communism, the whole of society will be the owners of the means of production, and will produce in the interests of the people, not of the elite few.

In the “Critique of the Gotha Program,” Karl Marx stated, “Between capitalist and communist society lies the period of the revolutionary transformation of the one into the other. Corresponding to this is also a political transition period in which the state can be nothing but the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat."

This period is socialism, as far as Marxism goes. Now, there are other variations of Socialism/communism, but when I speak of it, I’m referring strictly to Marxist terminology.

So, this means you can label me a Socialist or a Communist, since I am fighting for both.

 

[ColdBlooded]

replacing capitalism and the state with a new society democratically self-managed by workers. abolish the wage system and most forms of private property, which leads to class divisions. only direct action — that is, action concentrated on directly attaining a goal, as opposed to indirect action, such as electing a representative to a government position — will allow workers to liberate themselves. workers’ organizations — the organizations that struggle against the wage system, which will eventually form the basis of a new society — should be self-managing. they should not have bosses or “business agents”; rather, the workers should be able to make all the decisions that affect them themselves. all participants in an organized trade internally share equal ownership of its production and therefore deserve equal earnings and benefits within that trade, regardless of position or duty

 

[DeceptaKhan]

^^^thats wut i kinda thought,a middle ground, and i wasnt judging socialism jus by france,iv checked out spain,germany,poland,holand,denmark, and all may not be socialist, but i dunno i cant put my finger on it,socialism ideals are great as well as communism,but there seems to be a big difference with ideals and then seeing how a society works with these ideals,i dont really know were im headin,but ill jus say theres flaws in every system.and it seems that people allways want wut they dont have,if socialism occured in america,then thered be hella people sayin we want capitalism back so we can make money

but that is pretty fucked up how a few selected rich men run this country,like it or not

 

[Talus]

Yah there are problems with both...to simple it down i just think about this
too many indians and not enough chiefs you come into problems
fucked up ass unfair cheifs and you come into problems...

 

[Jae iLL]

You shouldn’t judge socialism because you live in France! A country that you admit is not socialist!

In Marxist terms, Socialism is the transitional period between capitalism and communism. However this can be very confusing since there are a number of “socialist” parties that are nothing of the sort, and there are a number of communist parties that are not communist and on top of that a lot of people associate "communism" with Stalin's totalitarian USSR, which was not communist, in fact it was very anti-communist (see Trotsky’s - ‘The Revolution Betrayed’ and ‘Russia: How the Bureaucracy Seized Power by George Collins).

For Marxists, “socialism is a transitional phase between the exploitative capitalist system of private property of the means of production, and the classless society of communism, where there is no longer a state in the proper sense of the word, no compulsion to work, no national borders, etc.”

Under capitalism, society is controlled by a handful of rich elite who exploit the working class in order to make profit. Under socialism/communism, the whole of society will be the owners of the means of production, and will produce in the interests of the people, not of the elite few.

In the “Critique of the Gotha Program,” Karl Marx stated, “Between capitalist and communist society lies the period of the revolutionary transformation of the one into the other. Corresponding to this is also a political transition period in which the state can be nothing but the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat."

This period is socialism, as far as Marxism goes. Now, there are other variations of Socialism/communism, but when I speak of it, I’m referring strictly to Marxist terminology.

So, this means you can label me a Socialist or a Communist, since I am fighting for both.

In practice, this has never worked. The vanguard has always become corrupt, the middle class who came into power always ended up abusing their power.

The best thing to do in my opinion, is to abolish government once and for all once the power is ripped fromt he hands of the elite. The dictatorship of the proleteriat is not a reality, anytime someobdy has absolute power, they have become corrupt.

 

[DeceptaKhan]

i like the too many indians and not enough chiefs...and didnt the US kill a gang of them waaay back in the day.aint that a bitch

 

[Merciedez]

let's all be realistic here. the way we mustlook at the situation of government control and corporate greed is locating the solution which provoke social political disagreements. there must be a common ground....a group which want to make one change of the system and complete it.

the political systems is complex, constantly modifying, a rotations of leaderships and new beliefs systems, and clever ways to talking down to the public without making them see that they have actual voted a ruling body and not a working body for the "people."

when a government system...does not accomidate for individual creativity, belief, and passion....then a majority rule (aka totalitarian/popular/dictatorship/and "nazi" form) of social agreement is the perfect patry dish for to screw the little people who are only trying to find a good life for themselves....

i think we have completely forgot what we have been arguing about....it WAS FOR US to give the oppurtunity to those we know DON'T HAVE WHAT WE HAVE....they need incouragement, self esteen, financial security, and oppurtunity. Why are we wasting our time argue with people who don't believe people don't need help? the system was meant for those who people in equality....i think everyone remembers the definition of "EQUALITY", right?

 

[ColdBlooded]

the system was meant for those who people in equality

quite the opposite

 

[Mr. Nice Guy]

It is pretty difficult to answer such a general question "how should things be", but IMO a few specific examples are

1) The government should be transformed into a represenatative democracy with proportional representation meaning that each political party was represented by the percentage of votes they receive from the general population. Rather than having a two party political system in which both candidates are EXTREMELY similiar on the political spectrum and where many people feel they must vote for "the lesser of two evils" each percentage of votes would be represented by 1 seat in congress. Therefore, in a hypothetical election with 100 seats to be filled, if the Republican party recived 15 percent of the vote they would get 15 seats, if the democrats received 20 percent of the vote they would get 20 seats, if the green party received 5 percent of the vote they would get 5 etc. This would break up the 2 party system and allow fresh ideas into the government. Second an individuals vote would actualy mean something because just recieving 1 percent of the vote means your political party now has a voice in the government at a a National level.

2) Laws should be created to protect others safety or interests. All crimes that are victimless should no longer be illegal and punishable. This means that drugs, gambling, prostitution, etc would all be legal accept in the case you were harming someone else or their interests. For example if a prositute failed to get the proper STD checks and subsequently infected someone, that would be a crime. Someone could get as fucked up as they please, but as soon as they drive and put someone else in danger, it would become a crime. It is too difficult to list all the different possibilities but I hope you get the idea.

3) The federal budget needs to be reorganized with health care, enviroment, and education as top priorities rather than military expenditures. I am not advocating completely abolishing military funding, but other programs should be higher priorities.