Can You Rationalize Your Belief in God?
- Thread starter XxtraMannish
- Start date
If we all think about it for a moment, the universe has always existed in some form or another. Thermodynamics law numero uno. So in this sense, Stealth's argument is not a very good one. But I do understand what he is trying to say. Instead of making an argument for creation, it would be more reasonable to say "manipulation" instead. A baker manipulates the ingredients to "create" bread. Similarly, God manipulates His potencies to "create" the universe. That is a more correct understanding. It isn't that God is ever devoid of His potencies, therefore the potency that constitutes the universe is also eternal.
You cannot argue that God would also need a "manipulator" in this case, because manipulator refers to the living entity (the spiritual being), and the manipulated refers to the material energy. "God" refers to the living entity that is the overall manipulator of material energy while we are subordinate manipulators.
The concept that there is a supreme manipulator accompanying the universe follows when one understands the transcendental nature of the self of any living organism. In the human form of life we can understand the self and how it is of an entirely different nature than the body. Comparatively, the self is superior in nature to that of the body. Superior means, the body is subject to change and thus comes into existence and eventually vanishes, but the self endures. Sometimes people say that the self has changed because certain ideas or preferences have changed, but it must still be admitted that the self who has changed those ideas of preferences remains behind the change. Consciousness most directly implies the enduring quality of the self. Only through indirect empirical considerations do we assert that life is a product of material arrangement. Anyway, just as we manipulate a very small amount of the universe, God is the Self Who manipulates the whole universe. That is the concept. It is based on a conception of duality between life and matter. Of course, this duality is only comparative. In comparison to each other, life is superior to material manifestation. Nonetheless, from the consideration that all energies are an emanation from God, all energies are in this sense non-different from each other. Some philosophers have a problem with dualism because they do not understand the simultaneous oneness and difference: One in source, different in comparison.
You cannot argue that God would also need a "manipulator" in this case, because manipulator refers to the living entity (the spiritual being), and the manipulated refers to the material energy. "God" refers to the living entity that is the overall manipulator of material energy while we are subordinate manipulators.
The concept that there is a supreme manipulator accompanying the universe follows when one understands the transcendental nature of the self of any living organism. In the human form of life we can understand the self and how it is of an entirely different nature than the body. Comparatively, the self is superior in nature to that of the body. Superior means, the body is subject to change and thus comes into existence and eventually vanishes, but the self endures. Sometimes people say that the self has changed because certain ideas or preferences have changed, but it must still be admitted that the self who has changed those ideas of preferences remains behind the change. Consciousness most directly implies the enduring quality of the self. Only through indirect empirical considerations do we assert that life is a product of material arrangement. Anyway, just as we manipulate a very small amount of the universe, God is the Self Who manipulates the whole universe. That is the concept. It is based on a conception of duality between life and matter. Of course, this duality is only comparative. In comparison to each other, life is superior to material manifestation. Nonetheless, from the consideration that all energies are an emanation from God, all energies are in this sense non-different from each other. Some philosophers have a problem with dualism because they do not understand the simultaneous oneness and difference: One in source, different in comparison.
This post asks everyone to rationalize their belief in God, putting those who believe in God in the position where they must defend their beliefs.
To those of you who don't believe in God - can you please rationalize why it is impossible for God to exist?
@n9newunsixx5150 - How do you know the universe has always existed? I don't know anything about thermodynamics, so if you can explain it to me, I'd appreciate it. Personally, I don't really think anyone can prove or disprove that universe has always existed, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
To those of you who don't believe in God - can you please rationalize why it is impossible for God to exist?
@n9newunsixx5150 - How do you know the universe has always existed? I don't know anything about thermodynamics, so if you can explain it to me, I'd appreciate it. Personally, I don't really think anyone can prove or disprove that universe has always existed, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
No. 2+2 will always equal 4, it will never be anything else. This is constant. Same with the laws of gravity and other scientific laws.
yes but this has nothing to do with logic, rational thinking, etc.
No.
I can prove 2+2=4. I can prove that when I drop my pencil it will always fall.
Like what? Give me one example
A typical day for me is to work, read/study, spend time with my friends & family. But a typical day does not accurately describe how I live my life.
yes but this has nothing to do with logic, rational thinking, etc.
No.
I can prove 2+2=4. I can prove that when I drop my pencil it will always fall.
Like what? Give me one example
A typical day for me is to work, read/study, spend time with my friends & family. But a typical day does not accurately describe how I live my life.
I am not saying the "universe" always existed as you know it, but that the energy which constitutes this "universe" is eternal. The first law of thermodynamics says that energy is neither created nor destroyed. This is also logical from a philosophical viewpoint. We define God as being the proprietor of all energies. If we say that at some point the energy that makes up the universe did not exist, then we would be saying that God at some point lacked at least some of His energies. Therefore this is illogical. The universal energy is eternal, but that does not mean the universe is necessarily eternally manifest. We have practical experience that forms in this universe are temporary. So the concept is that the universe as a whole is only temporarily manifest. Therefore God (the eternal and supreme living entity) "created" the universe (as we know it) through manipulation of His energies.