Can shamanism and different dimensions explain all supernatural phenomina

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May 5, 2002
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#1
Has anyone checked out "supernatural" by Graham Hancock? I haven't read the book yet but this shit is very interesting. He basically makes the case that humans changed into what we are today by eating hallucinogenics over 20 thousand years ago, and that certain hallucinogenics (especially Ayuhuacsa) change the frequency of your brain to experience other dimensions (we know their are at least 11 dimensions based on studies in quantum physics). It sounds crazy at first but he does a real good job making the case. These different dimensions can be used to explain all the supernatural phenomena in the world throughout its history such as God, spirits, and even alien encounters....

This is REALLY worth listening to...

pt1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzKp2PeXeWI
pt2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q32w0ExbsvM
pt3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ5grNkfkvo
pt4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvlpiq1jHCU
pt5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhhSH7ctj8s
pt6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n_2ivHUUmI
pt7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kV38brHb7k
pt8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9pAkVxbad8
pt9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDN55kfYjYI
pt10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pn_JIMXX1Q
pt11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW9dEc0KlO8
pt12: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWmiBCa2YBk
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#3
1. there are no "supernatural phenomena", only ones that haven't been explained

2. those 11 dimensions are still just a result of theoretical and mathematical exercises and not confirmed physical reality

3. our brain can never experience those 6 extra other dimensions because they take the form of a 6-dimensional Calabi-Yau manifold (7-dimensional Joyce manifold if they are 7), and are too small to have effect on our visible world. The human brain works on molecular level, not on the supersmall scale of the hidden dimensions
 
May 5, 2002
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#4
My explanation of his theory probably isn't that great so your wasting your time by trying to argue my points. Its impossible to summarize his points into a paragraph. My advice is listen to what I posted and argue those points.
 
Dec 8, 2005
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#5
ThaG said:
1. there are no "supernatural phenomena", only ones that haven't been explained
he defines supernatural as those not yet explained...

ThaG said:
2. those 11 dimensions are still just a result of theoretical and mathematical exercises and not confirmed physical reality
he makes no claims as which dimensions are available, and again if you actually perhaps listened to what he had to say you would see your statement here means nothing in terms of what he is asserting, he does not pretend to have any evidence of what is happening in these alternate states of conciousness except that the similarities many share are strikingly similar, he is just offering a thoughful plausibility, it is not science at all, he criticizes science for only accepting the measurable in material terms while rejecting what our brains are capable of concluding within. take his opinion for a moment that it is our brain that is a vehicle to other worlds....how WOULD you cofirm this?

ThaG said:
3. our brain can never experience those 6 extra other dimensions because they take the form of a 6-dimensional Calabi-Yau manifold (7-dimensional Joyce manifold if they are 7), and are too small to have effect on our visible world. The human brain works on molecular level, not on the supersmall scale of the hidden dimensions
...

my biggest critique of his thoughts is that he overlooks the most logical reason behind his observations, that perhaps the similarities in reaction have nothing to do with an external reality, but the fact that our brians are so similar that adding any substance would illicit the same reaction. ie, when we take cold medicine and it "cures" our cold, this is simply reactionary, not a connection with an invisible healers realm. when we drink liquore we experience the same things, not "transported" to the dimension of drunkards. but his thoughts on the arrival of art etc is interesting, the observation that crick was on lsd when he "discovered" the double helix, encoding songs on DNA, blah blah, hallucinations as the basis for mans creation of religion, legality of substances etc.

thag, have you A)listened to any of this B)willingly been under the influence of any hallucinogens?
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#6
nhojsmith said:
thag, have you A)listened to any of this B)willingly been under the influence of any hallucinogens?
A - no
B - no

I don't have time right now to watch the clips and I was commenting on these claims:

and that certain hallucinogenics (especially Ayuhuacsa) change the frequency of your brain to experience other dimensions (we know their are at least 11 dimensions based on studies in quantum physics)
which are so absurd (see above) that everything else coming from the person who made them has absolutely no credibility to me

I can count at least 6 false/totally wrong/outright nonsensical things in that single sentence. It takes a considerable amount of effort to write such a sentence....
 
Aug 6, 2006
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#7
Dimensions don't only consist of space, but time as well (which is interconnected anyways), therefore "scale" is irrelevant since it really depends on how much one can warp spacetime or what speeds can be attained approaching that of light, but circulating and going backwards along a closed time-like curve. One would be able to reach, or create various dimensions/parallel universes. All of this is well within the framework of quantum theory and relativity; nothing restricts it other than technology or access to any natural phenomenon.. Unless these said hallucinogens had a space-bending effect, I'm not sure how material they'd be in opening access doors to other dimensions, unless it instilled some kind of misunderstood psychic phenomenon.
 
Dec 8, 2005
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#9
ThaG said:
A - no
B - no

I don't have time right now to watch the clips and I was commenting on these claims:



which are so absurd (see above) that everything else coming from the person who made them has absolutely no credibility to me

I can count at least 6 false/totally wrong/outright nonsensical things in that single sentence. It takes a considerable amount of effort to write such a sentence....
fair enough
 
May 5, 2002
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#10
ParkBoyz said:
Thanx btw Snubnoze, you seem to really be into Graham Hancock..
Well ive always been a fan of history and more importantly ancient history so I read his book "fingerprints of the gods" and really liked his approach to research and the way he maps out his theory. I just recently seen this latest work, which actually ties into his previous work about lost civilizations and found it interesting. I'm not completely sold on his theory but it is compelling...

BTW, the whole separate dimension theory is just one explanation, he also gives another theory that their is information encoded into DNA that is tapped into when on these hallucinogenics. Honestly you really have to listen to those clips or read the book to get the idea because I sure as hell can't explain it as articulate as he can..
 
May 5, 2002
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#12
Here's the description of the book from his website...

The evolution of modern humans has taken more than five million years but until less than 50,000 years ago we had no art, no religion, no sophisticated symbolism, no creative and innovative thinking, and quite possibly no language. Then, a dramatic and electrifying change overtook our ancestors in every part of the globe, and all the skills and qualities that we value most highly in ourselves today appeared suddenly, already fully formed, as though bestowed on us by hidden powers. Scientists describe this change as “the greatest riddle in human history”.

The first art of mankind, in the painted caves and rock-shelters of southwest Europe and South Africa, dates back to the time of the great change. Why do these ancient paintings, tens of thousands of years old, depict beings of a kind that are never found in nature – strange and eerie hybrids with the heads of animals and the bodies of humans?

In the depths of the Amazon rainforest tribal shamans drink a powerful hallucinogenic brew called Ayahuasca (“the vine of souls”) in order to induce visions. When they return to normal consciousness, after experiencing what they believe is out-of-body travel in the spirit world, they make paintings of the “intelligent beings” they have encountered. Why are many of these beings also depicted as uncanny hybrids with the heads of animals or serpents and the bodies of humans? And why do the shamans say that they have taught them everything they know about how to live in the jungle, and about the medicinal value of rainforest plants?

Why do Western lab volunteers, placed experimentally under the influence of hallucinogens such as DMT, psilocybin, mescaline and LSD, report visionary encounters with “beings” in the form of animal-human hybrids – beings identical to those the Amazonian shamans claim to meet and to those painted by our ancestors in the prehistoric caves?

What is the significance of the astonishing similarities between the entities known as “aliens”, ET’s” or “greys” in modern popular culture, the entities known as “fairies”, “elves” and “goblins” in the Middle Ages, and the entities that shamans in surviving tribal cultures know as “ghosts”, “gods” and “spirits”? Why are such figures depicted in prehistoric art as far afield as Africa, Europe, the Americas and Australia?

Why have eminent scientists at the cutting edge of consciousness research, especially those who study the ways that hallucinogens work in the brain, recently begun to question long-established theories about the nature of reality? Why are some now even ready to consider the possibility, long ago embraced by shamans, that, far from being “false perceptions”, what we see in the strange imagery and experiences of hallucinations may be real perceptions of other “dimensions” and the beings inhabiting them?

Why did Nobel Prize-winner Francis Crick keep concealed until his death the astonishing circumstances under which he first “saw” the double-helix structure of DNA? And why did he become convinced that the DNA molecule did not evolve naturally upon this planet but was sent here in bacteria by an alien civilization?

Why does the 97 per cent of DNA that scientists do not understand – so-called “junk DNA” – contain chemical “sequences” arranged in patterns and frequencies that are otherwise only found in the deep coding of all human languages?

Could the “supernaturals” first depicted in the painted caves and rock shelters – and still accessible to us today in altered states of consciousness – be the ancient teachers of mankind? Could it be they who first ushered us into the full birthright of our humanity? And could it be that human evolution is not just the “blind”, “meaningless” “natural” process that Darwin identified, but something else, more purposive and intelligent, that we have barely even begun to understand?

http://www.grahamhancock.com/supernatural/
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#13
sigh...

when you see the "97% junk DNA" being mentioned, you know what you're dealing with

1. it's not 97%, it's less

2. most of it is transposons, ERVs and pseudogenes and these are real junk without any function
 
Sep 25, 2005
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#14
Excellent. I've read fingerprints of the gods and I'm currently reading Supernatural. I'm not entirely convinced of all of Hancock's ideas, as I think he tends to stretch facts sometimes in order to enforce his argument, but I think he has some very interesting points. Have any of you participated in the dmt phenom? I love the fact that few scientists would be willing to partake in dmt to understand where these theories are coming from, however ancient cultures have been partaking for years and years.