Bay Rap Sales & Race

[Mezzano]

We talk on this board a lot about how independent Bay artists don't move many units. Like I said on another thread, Messy Marv is considered a huge success because he moves 20,000 units, when the significant independent artists in the South move twice or three times that and consider it decent but not amazing.

We ALWAYS say it's because of radio play. But look at Frontline--they have 4 songs that have gotten A LOT of radio play and they aint breakin 20,000 or 30,000 if I remember correctly what B-12 said.

I think a major reason is race. There are just not many black people in the Bay Area and that makes a big difference in the sales of black artists. Even though are there are a lot of Latino and White and Asian hip hop heads, it can't be denied that the core base of rap music is young black people, particularly males.

So in thinking about this, I pulled up some Census of 2000 numbers. Take a look at the black populations of these Bay cities:

Oakland: 142,460
SF: 60,515
Vallejo: 27,655
Richmond: 35,777
San Jose: 31,349
TOTAL: 298,000

Compare to the black population of these Southern cities:

Memphis: 493,000
Houston: 789,157
Dallas: 720,608
New Orleans: 501,647
Atlanta: 1,188,000

Any thoughts?

 

[Andre the Giant]

So r u saying that the reason Bay artist arent moving units is because black folks aint buying the shit? Me personally I think non-blacks make the majority of all rap sales even Bay music.

 

[Turf Hitta]

I aint talkin shit, but I think that logic is flawed cause Its a pretty well known fact that the majority of the folks buyin albums is white kids. I think the main problem is the market is flooded. More rappers than fans out here and as a result of that it breeds a lot of hate between these rappers and nobody wants to support nobody cause they dont wanna see somebody else doin better than them.

 

[Turf Hitta]

So r u saying that the reason Bay artist arent moving units is because black folks aint buying the shit? Me personally I think non-blacks make the majority of all rap sales even Bay music.

Yall need to quit wit all these wrestler names.

 

[eastbayrider510]

So r u saying that the reason Bay artist arent moving units is because black folks aint buying the shit? Me personally I think non-blacks make the majority of all rap sales even Bay music.

werd up folx!!...and hey i support any artist who makes good muzik...but to say that the reason so and so isnt selling because "your race here" isnt buying the music is a pussy way out.....you just gotta try harder to reach a broader audience with more diverse muzik....i mean i support Norteno rap to the fullest but do i think we will ever go real major with it....no,....because we stay repen a hood and never get past our block....but that even goes for other gang related music....but to say its because a race isnt supporting us is bs......and hey maybe once we getalso get past trying to stay in the 95 era of music and just yelling out bay area we can go further....look at what e-40 is doing....look at bash.....look at short dogg....and we also gotta stop hating on the artist who do make it...IMO !!!!

 

[Foul Mouth]

it can't be denied that the core base of rap music is young black people, particularly males.

it cant be denied that your terribly mis-informed..............


80% of rap music is bought by white suburbans.MORE THAN HALF of that 80% is white females...........


black people make up a very small portion of rap sales...............

 

[BIG OSO LOC]

BOTTOM LINE...EVERYBODY YOU RUN INTO IN THE BAY IS A "RAPPER"....OR IF THEY AIN'T THEY BEST HOMIE IS OR THEY HAVE FAMILY THAT RAPS...FOR THE MOST PART, RAPPERS DON'T GO TO MUSIC STORES TO PICK UP THE LATEST TITLES. RAPPERS DON'T CONSIDER THEMSELVES FANS BECAUSE THEY ARE RAPPERS. THE BAY IS KNOWN FOR THE INDEPENDANT PUSHING OF UNITS AND NOT RELYING ON MAJOR LABELS. SO EVERYBODY OUT HERE IS ON THE INDEPENDANT THANG RIGHT NOW...BUT IN OTHER AREAS OF THE U.S. OF COURSE YOU GOT RAPPERS EVERYWHERE BUT THEY ALSO KNOW THAT TO MAKE IT THEY GOTTA LAND THAT MAJOR DEAL. SO WHILE THEY ARE TRYIN TO PUSH THEMSELVES THEY HAVEN'T LOST THAT FEELING OF GOIN OUT AND SUPPORTING OTHER ARTISTS. IT'S JUST THE DIFFERENT MINDSTATE OF CERTAIN AREAS. EVERYBODY AND THEIR MOMS IS PUTTIN OUT ALBUMS OUT HERE FLOODIN THE GAME. I MAY BE WRONG WITH THE STATEMENT I'M MAKING BUT THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SEEING OUT HERE FOR YEARS.....

 

[WAR CHIEF]

ALSO DUDES OUT HERE GOTTA STOP BEING LAZY. 80% OF THE RAPPERS DON'T HAVE VIDEOS, DON'T WANNA DO FREE SHOWS,DON'T WANNA CHANGE UP THERE FLOW OR BEATS EVERY NOW AND THEN. ALSO INSTEAD OF PUTTING ON THE GUY ACROSS TOWN WITH FIVE STAR TALENT THEY PUT ON THERE COUSIN OR HOMIE WITH THREE OR TWO STAR TALENT ETC ETC ETC...

 

[butter]

The bay is going thru a dry a spell, its the laws of nature...but to commence that movement we have to connect/market in the dirty and midwest...look at the demographics...and the numbers don't lie, alot of these sub-urban(hum) white kids are mainstreamed out and if they are, why did the frontline move so few units...for the market being flooded, sh%$ the ATL has over a million Blacks/African Americans, now they market is truly flooded wit aspiring artist...lily white cali is just gettin the best of us, can't sell no albums, can't find a hustle, can't find a real pay-n job and can't find a decent house for less then $400,000...i can buy 2 for that price wit 3 acres of land and pool in the ATL!LOL

 

[Mezzano]

Thanks for all the feedback and thoughts.

Saying "white people buy most rap music" is way too much of a generalization, because it really depends on WHERE you're talking about. If you mean this country as a whole, then you're right, after all, this country is still about 12% black, 12% latino, maybe 5% Asian and 70+% white. So that would only make sense.

BUT in areas where white people are a minority or even a slim majority, that just doesn't make sense at all, because it would require that a white teenager on average buys *as much or more* rap music as a black teenager on average. I think we all know that that can't be true... Young black people mainly listen to hip hop and R&B. Young white people, if you think about white people in all areas--suburbs, cities, rural areas, etc.--might listen to country, alternative rock, punk rock, house/electronica, roots reggae, hip hop, r&b, etc. For example, in the suburbs of the Bay, some white people may listen to some hip hop but A LOT listen to Alternative Rock and Pop, and when you get farther out to the Central Valley (livermore on out), a lot listen to Country.

So think about it. In a city like Oakland, where black people make up about 35-40% of the city, do you really think white people buy most of the rap music sold? Now multiply the black population of Oakland by 10 and you have Atlanta. Isn't that gonna be an easier market for hip hop?

Ay but I do think that if Chicanos formed a strong purchasing base for Chicano rap music, then that could be as big as say, Swishahouse is in Houston or Three 6 Mafia is in Memphis. It's a numbers game, period.

80% of rap music is bought by white suburbans.MORE THAN HALF of that 80% is white females...........

Where are these statistics from?

 

[Silas]

"80% of rap music is bought by white suburbans.MORE THAN HALF of that 80% is white females..........."

that might be true in the mainstream, but im not sure thats the demographic buyin Marv's albums

 

[Humboldt High]

lily white cali is just gettin the best of us, can't sell no albums, can't find a hustle,

california is one of the, if not the most diverse state in the nation!! so that is an ignorant statement on your part. Shit i am a white minority in frisco. where do you live danville? utah might be lilly white, but cali is more asian and latin and growing by leaps and bounds. check some facts

as it has been said by alot of folkx on this board i think bootlegging and computer access has more to do with poor sales. as well as every1 and their mama being a "rapper."

 

[young myzt]

yup, now a days everybody can be a rapper, but the thing is that in the bay erea, everybody wants to do their own thing and try to not rely on some major label. the talent is there, the bay can flood the u.s. of a with its talent, but as long as they dont "sell out", we can stick to the low numbers and nobody reppin accross the nation...imo.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Yall need to quit wit all these wrestler names.

Dogg..if you gottta a problem wit my name thats just too bad cuz that the name on my birth certificate and the Giant part..I'm just reppn the SF Giants. Nuff said.
...who still uses the word "Turf"??
To my old school folks, yall remember that show Home Turf on channel 4. who remembers the girls name that hosted that show. she was fine as hell. Peace.

 

[Al Boo Boo]

theres plenty,PLENTY of folks to reach in Cali to sell records to.I dont think its a race thing at all,these cats just aint hustlin as hard as the older cats did.Back then folks wasnt worried about gettin on the radio to get love or goin to other regions,they were all about they money but still made good quality shit.There was more dedication it seems like.I'm not sayin these cats out here aint got hustle cuz I know whats up but hittin up message boards and lil clubs here and there aint gon do it.Them cats in the South may have a better advantage and what not since I heard their radio stations give helluv their artists love,new or old but they also still push that shit out the trunk.It dont matter how many Black folks is there,if they were'nt hustlin that music wouldnt get heard.Cats out here want to jump on a track with a known artist and hope to go from there.Get out there,make a buz and keep that shit buzzin and go hard all up and down this coast.I dont think they should trip bout outside ears at all,they'll come eventually if EVERYBODY out here is bumpin it,and I mean CALI not just the Bay.Thats just my 2 for now.

peace

 

[Al Boo Boo]

oh yeah and one thing thats missing that helped alot back in the day,unity.Folks out here still network but back than,with their hustle AND connectin,like they were ready to just rep the whole damn Bay and not trip if you from here or there and lets get this money together? that was the shit.

 

[Foul Mouth]

Thanks for all the feedback and thoughts.

Saying "white people buy most rap music" is way too much of a generalization, because it really depends on WHERE you're talking about. If you mean this country as a whole, then you're right, after all, this country is still about 12% black, 12% latino, maybe 5% Asian and 70+% white. So that would only make sense.

BUT in areas where white people are a minority or even a slim majority, that just doesn't make sense at all, because it would require that a white teenager on average buys *as much or more* rap music as a black teenager on average. I think we all know that that can't be true... Young black people mainly listen to hip hop and R&B. Young white people, if you think about white people in all areas--suburbs, cities, rural areas, etc.--might listen to country, alternative rock, punk rock, house/electronica, roots reggae, hip hop, r&b, etc. For example, in the suburbs of the Bay, some white people may listen to some hip hop but A LOT listen to Alternative Rock and Pop, and when you get farther out to the Central Valley (livermore on out), a lot listen to Country.

So think about it. In a city like Oakland, where black people make up about 35-40% of the city, do you really think white people buy most of the rap music sold? Now multiply the black population of Oakland by 10 and you have Atlanta. Isn't that gonna be an easier market for hip hop?

Ay but I do think that if Chicanos formed a strong purchasing base for Chicano rap music, then that could be as big as say, Swishahouse is in Houston or Three 6 Mafia is in Memphis. It's a numbers game, period.



Where are these statistics from?

those statistics are accurate.but man,your totally mis-informed.........that central valley shit is off.alot of white folks listen to country in the valley,im sure thats true.im also sure thats true in the bay area.im in the next county over from the bay,there aint that much difference if any on what white people listen too................



your logic is flawed.............



Silas:
the statistic is rap music over all.maybe Messy Marv doesnt fall in that,i dont know and niether do you,but he's one person,he's a small fish in a big pond............



look at this site "Siccness.net",i guarentee you most of the members are white............throw out the gathering of minds,down south,l.a.,whatever.lets just look at B.A.R.T. & 9-1 Siccness,the only 2 northern california forums.forums based on rappers relying on independent sales.guarentee you these 2 forums are made up of mostly white people...............

 

[yay collapopper]

did we also factor in the cost of living to live in the bay ????

plus most bay cats have that husler mentality, so when ur on ur grind, how much money are u gonna trick off on cds ???

 

[disobayish]

u cant compare tha black ppl in tha south to tha black ppl in tha bay kuz tha bay is jus a lil area n tha south is a hole region theres way more ppl out there in tha south to buy cd's n theres probably more local record stores in tha south since its so big wen tha bay only got like rasputins n a couple other stores

 

[Sydal]

Well, race is not the reason for low sales. Most rap music is purchased by middle and upper class white kids between 13 and 22 or some shit like that.