Australian men 'turning into metrosexual tossbags'

[WHITE DEVIL]

I'll argue for the opposite.

Does spending time grooming or on personal appearance make someone less capable or able to do physical tasks or tasks associated more strongly with men?

If those men changed all the time they spent on looking 'good' (or whatever the case may be) into beer drinking time, football time, or some other typically 'male' activity, would they then regain their lost mechanical, farming, or hunting skills?

 

[phil]

i think youre all missing the point. the dude is basically upset at political correctness changing the definition of manly. admit it, p.c. and pansy go hand in hand.

 

[EDJ]

I'll argue for the opposite.

BE MY gUEST.

Does spending time grooming or on personal appearance make someone less capable or able to do physical tasks or tasks associated more strongly with men?

NOT TECHNICALLY OR NECESSARILY. BUT PERSONALLY SPEAKIN', I AIN'T gONNA TRY TO DO THOSE THANgS CAUSE I AIN'T gONNA WANNA FUK UP MY NAILS, FUK UP MY HAIR, FUK UP MY CLOTHES, FUK UP MY SHOES, OR gET DIRTY IN N-E KIND OF WAY. I'D PAY SOMEBODY, THUS BECOME DEPENDANT. SEE, THE gENERAL CONCENSUS IS TO BE A MAN, TO DO FOR SELF, AND BEIN' TOO DEPENDANT ON OTHAS TO SURVIVE EITHA:

A) MAKES YOU MORE LIKE A CHILD(WHERE MOMMY AND/OR DADDY gOTTA TAKE CARE OF YOU)

B) MAKES YOU MORE LIKE A WOMAN( WHERE PHYSICAL INFERIORNESS LIMITS HER POTENTIAL FOR TASKS)

If those men changed all the time they spent on looking 'good' (or whatever the case may be) into beer drinking time, football time, or some other typically 'male' activity, would they then regain their lost mechanical, farming, or hunting skills?

THOSE ARE TOO DIFFERENT THANgS YOU TALKIN' BOUT. YOU TALKIN' BOUT RECREATIONAL SHIT. SAY YOU DIDN'T HAVE T.V'S OR WE DIDN'T LIVE IN A MODERN SOCIETY WHERE WE HAD ORgANIZED SPORTS AND SHIT LIKE THAT, MEN WOULD HAVE TO FIND ANOTHA WAY TO SPEND THEY TIME. BUT IF YOU WASTIN' SO MUCH TIME TRYIN' TO LOOK gOOD, THEN HAVIN' TIME TO REFINE YOUR "MECHANICAL, FARMIN', AND HUNTIN'" SKILLS WOULD EITHA:

A) DIMINISH

B) BECOME RUSTY

TRYIN' TO BE HIgH MAINTENANCE IS TIME CONSUMIN'. SO YOU EITHA HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN LIFESTYLE OR HAVE THE MONEY AND PATIENCE AND BE DEPENDANT ON OTHAS TO SHIT FOR YOU.

 

[WHITE DEVIL]

THOSE ARE TOO DIFFERENT THANgS YOU TALKIN' BOUT. YOU TALKIN' BOUT RECREATIONAL SHIT. SAY YOU DIDN'T HAVE T.V'S OR WE DIDN'T LIVE IN A MODERN SOCIETY WHERE WE HAD ORgANIZED SPORTS AND SHIT LIKE THAT, MEN WOULD HAVE TO FIND ANOTHA WAY TO SPEND THEY TIME. BUT IF YOU WASTIN' SO MUCH TIME TRYIN' TO LOOK gOOD, THEN HAVIN' TIME TO REFINE YOUR "MECHANICAL, FARMIN', AND HUNTIN'" SKILLS WOULD EITHA:[/B]

A) DIMINISH

B) BECOME RUSTY

TRYIN' TO BE HIgH MAINTENANCE IS TIME CONSUMIN'. SO YOU EITHA HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN LIFESTYLE OR HAVE THE MONEY AND PATIENCE AND BE DEPENDANT ON OTHAS TO SHIT FOR YOU.

So niggas that spend a G on a fit and spend a hour gettin ready, pressin up clothes, lacin shoes, etc. is bitchmade?

 

[EDJ]

^WHO SAID THAT? IF YOUR ASSESSMENT IS CORRECT I WOULD BE A HIPOCRITE CAUSE I IN FACT BE PIMPED OUT. BUT BITCHMADE IS THE ATTITUDE, NOT THE CLOTHES OR WHAT YOU PUT ON. IN OTHA WORDS, I MAKE THE CLOTHES, THE CLOTHES DON'T MAKE ME. LIL' WEAK ASS WHINY NIgKAS THAT'S QUIK TO RUN WHEN SHIT HIT THE FAN ARE THE BITCHMADE ONES.

 

[I AM]

LET ME PLAY DEVILS ADVOCATE.

IT'S NOT ONLY AN IMAgE PORTRAYAL, BUT A WAY FOR A MAN TO EXPRESS HIS MASCULINITY. BEIN' HIgH MAINTENANCE IS NOT AN ESSENTIAL THANg, AND BEIN' MORE TRADITIONAL WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE(SPEAKIN' AS A MAN). I AIN'T SAYIN' TO BE A BRUTE, STIK OUT YOUR CHEST, AND TRY TO BE A WOMANIZER. WHAT I AM SAYIN' IS THAT AS MEN START TO BE MORE HIgH MAINTENANCE AND BASICALLY BE MORE DEPENDANT ON OTHAS TO DO SHIT FOR HIM, RATHER THAN HIM DOIN' IT FOR HIMSELF(LIKE FIXXIN' CARS, HUNTIN', CHOPPIN' WOOD, LIFTIN' HEAVY SHIT, FARMIN', AND N-E OTHA TRADITIONAL MALE THANg THAT MEN DID/DO TO SURVIVE, CAUSE OBVIOUSLY A WOMAN WASN'T gONNA DO IT), JUST WEAKENS THAT MAN.

You're arguing for tradition, not individuality and exploration of the human mind, body, and soul

And here's EDJ to welcome us back into the 1940's!

 

[EDJ]

^LOL.

LET ME PLAY DEVILS ADVOCATE.

 

[Hutch]

^WHO SAID THAT? IF YOUR ASSESSMENT IS CORRECT I WOULD BE A HIPOCRITE CAUSE I IN FACT BE PIMPED OUT. BUT BITCHMADE IS THE ATTITUDE, NOT THE CLOTHES OR WHAT YOU PUT ON. IN OTHA WORDS, I MAKE THE CLOTHES, THE CLOTHES DON'T MAKE ME. LIL' WEAK ASS WHINY NIgKAS THAT'S QUIK TO RUN WHEN SHIT HIT THE FAN ARE THE BITCHMADE ONES.

So, a man who takes the time to get his nails done, get his face done etc. automatically has a change in attitude, going from 'Manly' to 'Bitchmade'? Since when does caring about onces appearance conflict with performing mechanical tasks or just generally being manly? If that is your argument, then you could be viewed as a hypocrite.

 

[2-0-NINE]

So you wouldn't consider the mate a new born sheila, crickey I aughta saaay!

 

[I AM]

^LOL.

Did you read what I said on the first page?

:x

 

[EDJ]

^YES I DID. AND THAT'S WHY I PLAYED DEVIL'S ADVOCATE. MEN DID SHIT BAK WHEN TO SURVIVE AND PROVIDE FOR HIS AND THAT WAS HIS HOBBIES, OR PART OF. NOWADAYS IN THIS DAY IN AgE AND IN MODERN SOCIETY YOU gOT FOO'S THAT ARE TOO PAMPERED AND DEPENDANT ON OTHAS TO WHERE THERE SURVIVAL SKILLS/CHORES AIN'T UP TO PAR.

 

[EDJ]

So, a man who takes the time to get his nails done, get his face done etc. automatically has a change in attitude, going from 'Manly' to 'Bitchmade'?

WHO SAID THAT? YOU JUST QUOTED ME MY ANSWER TO WHITE DEVIL ANSWERIN' THE SAME QUESTION YOU'E ASKIN' ME. DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ? I TOLD HIM THAT, "IF YOUR ASSESSMENT IS CORRECT I WOULD BE A HIPOCRITE CAUSE I IN FACT BE PIMPED OUT." MEANIN' THAT I AIN'T BITCHMADE CAUSE I DO THOSE SAME THANgS. AND I EVEN SAID, "BUT BITCHMADE IS THE ATTITUDE, NOT THE CLOTHES OR WHAT YOU PUT ON." WHICH MEANS THAT IT'S THE ATTITUDE AND NOT WHAT A MAN PUTS ON. AND I ALSO EXPLAINED WHAT BITCHMADE WAS. YOU CAN BE A TYPICAL BRUTE AND STILL BE BITCHMADE BY YOUR ATTITUDE , NOT BY THE CLOTHES YOU WEAR OR IF YOU'RE HIgH MAINTENANCE.

Since when does caring about onces appearance conflict with performing mechanical tasks or just generally being manly?

GO BAK AND RE-READ MY REBUTTAL TO WHITE DEVIL CAUSE IT'S OBVIOUS THAT YOU DON'T COMPREHEND. MATTER OF FACT, I STRESSED, "NOT TECHNICALLY OR NECESSARILY. BUT PERSONALLY SPEAKIN', I AIN'T gONNA TRY TO DO THOSE THANgS CAUSE I AIN'T gONNA WANNA FUK UP MY NAILS, FUK UP MY HAIR, FUK UP MY CLOTHES, FUK UP MY SHOES, OR gET DIRTY IN N-E KIND OF WAY. I'D PAY SOMEBODY, THUS BECOME DEPENDANT. SEE, THE gENERAL CONCENSUS IS TO BE A MAN, TO DO FOR SELF, AND BEIN' TOO DEPENDANT ON OTHAS TO SURVIVE EITHA:

A) MAKES YOU MORE LIKE A CHILD(WHERE MOMMY AND/OR DADDY gOTTA TAKE CARE OF YOU)

B) MAKES YOU MORE LIKE A WOMAN( WHERE PHYSICAL INFERIORNESS LIMITS HER POTENTIAL FOR TASKS)"

If that is your argument, then you could be viewed as a hypocrite.

AND AgAIN, I'LL QUOTE MYSELF, "IF YOUR ASSESSMENT IS CORRECT I WOULD BE A HIPOCRITE CAUSE I IN FACT BE PIMPED OUT." THE SHIT CONFLICTS WHEN TIME IS A FACTOR. THERE'S ONLY 24 HOURS IN A DAY AND THE SHIT'S LIKE OIL AND WATER. IF I FIX ON CARS ALL DAY, I AIN'T gOT TIME TO PAMPER MYSELF SO TO SPEAK. IF I'M ALWAYS BEIN' A BUSY BODY FIXXIN' SHIT AROUND THE HOUSE, THEN I AIN'T gOT TIME IS TO DO THE SHIT FOR MYSELF. TIME IS THE CONFLICT. THE LIFESTYLE IS THE CONFLICT.

 

[I AM]

^YES I DID. AND THAT'S WHY I PLAYED DEVIL'S ADVOCATE. MEN DID SHIT BAK WHEN TO SURVIVE AND PROVIDE FOR HIS AND THAT WAS HIS HOBBIES, OR PART OF. NOWADAYS IN THIS DAY IN AgE AND IN MODERN SOCIETY YOU gOT FOO'S THAT ARE TOO PAMPERED AND DEPENDANT ON OTHAS TO WHERE THERE SURVIVAL SKILLS/CHORES AIN'T UP TO PAR.

Women did the same thing, just on different levels. It's not like they couldn't hunt, they just didn't. In any relationship one individual assumes the dominant role. When you say "manly" all that is, is a stereotype. It's what you are told manly is. Just like love, it's all cliche. Being a manly man, has nothing to do with surviving, back in the day or now. You don't have to be some butch forest dwelling hobit to survive in the woods. You just have to know what to eat.

 

[EDJ]

Women did the same thing, just on different levels.

AND WHAT ARE THESE DIFFERENT LEVELS YOU SPEAK OF? BUT WOMEN PLAYED THEY ROLE THRU-OUT HISTORY TIL THIS MODERN DAY WHERE INDEPENDENCE AND MEN BEIN' LESS HELPFUL AND LESS IN THE PICTURE BECAME THE NORM.

It's not like they couldn't hunt, they just didn't.

THERE'S PROBABLY SOME EXCEPTION TO THE RULE WHERE A WOMAN HUNTED. BUT I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S A HOBBY WOMEN ARE INTERESTED IN, THEN AND NOW.

In any relationship one individual assumes the dominant role.

DEPENDIN' ON THE PERSONALITY. BUT FOR THE MOST PART, DUE TO THE UNDECISIVENESS OF A WOMAN'S NATURE, THE MAN USUALLY TAKES THE LEAD, AND IS THE HEAD OF THE HOUSEHOLD.

When you say "manly" all that is, is a stereotype.

I NEVA SAID "MANLY" AND I AIN'T STEREO-TYPIN' SHIT. ALL I STRESSED WAS THAT WHAT IS CONSIDERED "MANLY" gOES BAK TO THANgS MEN DID TO SURVIVE(WHICH NOWADAYS SEEM UNNECESSARY IN THIS PAMPERED CAPITALISTIC DEPENDANT SOCIETY).

It's what you are told manly is. Just like love, it's all cliche.

NOBODY TOLD ME SHIT. I'M LOOKIN' AT THE SHIT FOR MYSELF. YOU ACT LIKE THIS WORLD STARTED WITH WOMEN RULIN' AND MEN BEIN' SUBMISSIVE.

Being a manly man, has nothing to do with surviving, back in the day or now.

TALK ABOUT LABELIN'. BEIN' A MAN HAS EVERYTHANg TO DO WITH SURVIVIN'. NEXT TIME YOU HEAR SOMEBODY SAY, "BE A MAN AND "........" SEE WHAT THEY ARE TALKIN' BOUT AND I BET YOU IT HAS SOMETHIN' TO DO WITH TAKIN' RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEY ACTIONS AND SURVIVIN', AND THIS INCLUDES A WAY TO gET PAID, BEIN' A FATHER, OR WHATEVA ELSE INVOLVES THAT ACTION.

You don't have to be some butch forest dwelling hobit to survive in the woods. You just have to know what to eat.

NOBODY SAID THAT. KNOWLEDgE IS POWER, YET AND STILL, YOU HAVE TO MAN UP AND SURVIVE.:knockout:

 

[HERESY]

I agree with EDJ on this one, and what he is describing is role conflict and role strain.

 

[EDJ]

^DESCRIBE ROLE STRAIN.

 

[I AM]

AND WHAT ARE THESE DIFFERENT LEVELS YOU SPEAK OF? BUT WOMEN PLAYED THEY ROLE THRU-OUT HISTORY TIL THIS MODERN DAY WHERE INDEPENDENCE AND MEN BEIN' LESS HELPFUL AND LESS IN THE PICTURE BECAME THE NORM.

Levels of participation.

THERE'S PROBABLY SOME EXCEPTION TO THE RULE WHERE A WOMAN HUNTED. BUT I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S A HOBBY WOMEN ARE INTERESTED IN, THEN AND NOW.

You don't know many women then. I know you have your generalizd opinion based on what you have seen but there are quite a few women, then and now that hunt and take the role of leader and care taker.

DEPENDIN' ON THE PERSONALITY. BUT FOR THE MOST PART, DUE TO THE UNDECISIVENESS OF A WOMAN'S NATURE, THE MAN USUALLY TAKES THE LEAD, AND IS THE HEAD OF THE HOUSEHOLD.

I agree, it does depend on the personality, but where one person lacks the other has to pick up, or the relationship starts to dwindle. And if you considering making money being the "head of the household," then okay, but if you're talking about the person that makes sure most of the shit is taken care of around the house, I'd say a lot more women do that. There are a lot of unmotivated, dead beat guys out there that don't do SHIT and do depend on women to do everything for them.

I NEVA SAID "MANLY" AND I AIN'T STEREO-TYPIN' SHIT. ALL I STRESSED WAS THAT WHAT IS CONSIDERED "MANLY" gOES BAK TO THANgS MEN DID TO SURVIVE(WHICH NOWADAYS SEEM UNNECESSARY IN THIS PAMPERED CAPITALISTIC DEPENDANT SOCIETY).

Manly goes back to about the 1950's and all the propaganda people were fed, so that when they had kids they would teach them the same shit. The process recycles itself over and over. That's what people consider manly in THIS country, have you asked people outside of this country or seen any of the media? It's quite different. And by no means, is a capitalist society inherently pampered, except for convenience of food.

NOBODY TOLD ME SHIT. I'M LOOKIN' AT THE SHIT FOR MYSELF. YOU ACT LIKE THIS WORLD STARTED WITH WOMEN RULIN' AND MEN BEIN' SUBMISSIVE.

You're looking at it from the perspective that you have gained throughout life. I'm not trying to say your'e stereotyping people. You do have to agree though, that most of the shit you were TAUGHT, you were TOLD by someone. Otherwise you taught yourself from various life experiences. Which can also lead to what you're saying about women..

TALK ABOUT LABELIN'. BEIN' A MAN HAS EVERYTHANg TO DO WITH SURVIVIN'. NEXT TIME YOU HEAR SOMEBODY SAY, "BE A MAN AND "........" SEE WHAT THEY ARE TALKIN' BOUT AND I BET YOU IT HAS SOMETHIN' TO DO WITH TAKIN' RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEY ACTIONS AND SURVIVIN', AND THIS INCLUDES A WAY TO gET PAID, BEIN' A FATHER, OR WHATEVA ELSE INVOLVES THAT ACTION.

Being a HUMAN has everything to do with surviving. NOT being a man. I'm not disagreeing with you about what being "manly" is, it may seem that way, but my point is to try to get you to think about the fact that there are very few differences between men and women. Do we need to go over gender versus sex again, like that one thread? And responsibility isn't being MANLY, it's being an ADULT. When women fuck up and are dead beats, the same shit is said to them, "get your shit together." It just happens to be that most men in our society are the dead beats, which is why there's an overcompensation for being a "real man."

NOBODY SAID THAT. KNOWLEDgE IS POWER, YET AND STILL, YOU HAVE TO MAN UP AND SURVIVE.:knockout:

You can call it how you want. Obviously you're not going to consider what I'm saying, so there's really no point in continuing.

Being a man has nothing to do with surviving, being a human being has everything to do with that. Quit trying to seperate individuals, we need to unite cause we need all the help we can get in this day and age. Don't say I didn't warn you. :x

 

[I AM]

^DESCRIBE ROLE STRAIN.

Role strain characterises a situation where fulfilling a certain role has a conflict with fulfilling another role.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role

 

[EDJ]

^REMEMBER, I'M PLAYIN' DEVIL'S ADVOCATE.

You don't know many women then. I know you have your generalizd opinion based on what you have seen but there are quite a few women, then and now that hunt and take the role of leader and care taker.

AND I QUOTE, "THERE'S PROBABLY SOME EXCEPTION TO THE RULE WHERE A WOMAN HUNTED." THAT DON'T MEAN IT'S THE RULE. MEN HUNTIN' IS.

I agree, it does depend on the personality, but where one person lacks the other has to pick up, or the relationship starts to dwindle. And if you considering making money being the "head of the household," then okay, but if you're talking about the person that makes sure most of the shit is taken care of around the house, I'd say a lot more women do that. There are a lot of unmotivated, dead beat guys out there that don't do SHIT and do depend on women to do everything for them.

THAT'S WHAT MODERN SOCIETY HAS DONE(DEADBEATS). BUT BEIN' THE PROVIDER IS THE THANg(BEIN' A "MAN"). TAKEN CARE OF HOME HAS TRADITIONALLY BEEN THE WOMAN'S ROLE, BUT THAT DON'T MEAN A MAN CAN'T DO IT. THAT'S A STEREOTYPE RIgHT THERE.

Manly goes back to about the 1950's and all the propaganda people were fed, so that when they had kids they would teach them the same shit. The process recycles itself over and over. That's what people consider manly in THIS country, have you asked people outside of this country or seen any of the media? It's quite different. And by no means, is a capitalist society inherently pampered, except for convenience of food.

LOOK AT THIS COUNTRY THEN. MODERN SOCIETY HAS SO MANY CONVENIENCES AND COMMERCIALISM HAS HAD AN EFFECT. IT'S NOT CAUSE THIS SOCIETY IS INHERENTLY PAMPERED. NONE THE LESS IT HAS BECOME THAT.

You're looking at it from the perspective that you have gained throughout life. I'm not trying to say your'e stereotyping people. You do have to agree though, that most of the shit you were TAUGHT, you were TOLD by someone. Otherwise you taught yourself from various life experiences. Which can also lead to what you're saying about women..

YOU DID SAY I WAS STEREO-TYPIN'. BUT I WAS TAUgHT DIFFERENT THANgS gROWIN' UP. BUT AS A MAN I HAVE SEEN SHIT FOR MYSELF IN DIFFERENT SCENARIOS AND ENVIRONMENTS. SO YOU SAYIN' gROWIN' UP WITHOUT A FATHER-FIgURE DOESN'T HAVE IT'S EFFECTS?

Being a HUMAN has everything to do with surviving. NOT being a man.

BUT I AM ONLY A MAN AND DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT BEIN' A WOMAN. FOR I DON'T KNOW HOW IT WOULD BE TO BE SUBMISSIVE.

I'm not disagreeing with you about what being "manly" is, it may seem that way, but my point is to try to get you to think about the fact that there are very few differences between men and women.

BULLSHIT. THERE'S SO MANY DIFERENCES. FOR ONE DIFFERENCE, IT CAN BREAK DOWN TO MORE DIFFERENCES.

Do we need to go over gender versus sex again, like that one thread?

YUP, BE MY gUEST.

And responsibility isn't being MANLY, it's being an ADULT.

IN THIS MODERN DAY, YES. BUT AS I SAID, I AM NOT A WOMAN, SO THEREFORE I CAN COMMENT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.

When women fuck up and are dead beats, the same shit is said to them, "get your shit together."

YEAH, BUT ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS FIND A CHUMP THAT'LL TAKE CARE OF THEM AND A KINDERgARTEN EDUCATION IS SUFFICE.

It just happens to be that most men in our society are the dead beats, which is why there's an overcompensation for being a "real man."

YUP. WOMEN ARE WINNIN' THE ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENTS AND PUSHIN' THEMSELVES MORE.

You can call it how you want. Obviously you're not going to consider what I'm saying, so there's really no point in continuing.

REMEMBER, I PLAYIN' DEVIL'S ADVOCATE. DON'T gET ALL EMOTIONAL ON ME MAN.:devious:

Being a man has nothing to do with surviving, being a human being has everything to do with that. Quit trying to seperate individuals, we need to unite cause we need all the help we can get in this day and age. Don't say I didn't warn you. :x

LIKE I SAID, I'M A MAN AND CAN'T LOOK AT IT FROM A WOMAN'S PERSPECTIVE. BUT IF WE WAS TO gO BAK IN TIME, YOU WOULD SEE THAT WOMEN WERE LESS INDEPENDENT CAUSE OF THEIR ROLE IN SOCIETY AND HOW TECHNOLOgY HAS ENABLED THEM TO BE MORE INDEPENDENT NOW. SO WITH THAT BEIN' SAID, IF I HAVE A FAMILY, I'M NOT gONNA EXPECT MY WIFE/gIRL TO CHANgE THE TIRE, CHOP THE WOOD, DO THE YARDWORK, LIFT THE HEAVY SHIT, AND SO ON AND SO FORTH......(BUT I WILL LET HER BRINg HOME THE BACON, LOL):lick:

 

[pAc0]

What's really sad is that people automatically assume there is a way for a man to be and a way for a woman to be. If nobody told anybody else shit and there was nothing to tell us who to be, how to be, etc, we would just be who were are without interference.

You don't have to do certain things to be a man. That's just what most people think because that's what they are told and have been told all their lives. People need to say fuck it and just live life and not worry so much about what things are called and how things "should" be according to some stupid mother fucker that doesn't know more than .1% of the population in their own country.

co-sign on da dot!