ANYONE EVER SEE THIS SITE? WHAT U THINK ABOUT IT?

[HERESY]

real quick reply, I dont care which side of the fence you sit on science cannot disprove anyhting in the Quran infact if anything science learns from the Quran.

You should care which side of the fence someone sits on because it will dictate how they believe or recieve information. How does science prove the quran is the word of God, and in what ways have science learned from the quran? Feel free to list examples.

Like i said i have not read the whole book, so i dont know what scientific facts he talked about that was in the Quran

If you have not read the whole book why do you claim the book is unbiased? Why make such a claim before reading it? Here are your words from another post made a couple of days ago:

Non bias book, i aint read it yet but thats what i heard

Would you agree that your statement proves you follow what others say before you yourself have actually verified it? Would you also agree its illogical to claim something is unbiased without reading it?

so i dont know what scientific facts he talked about that was in the Quran but i can run you through some real quick...Embroyo's shape and development, evolution, big bang theory, big crunch, expansion on the universe, jibraltors pass, theory of relativity, speed of light etc.. etc.. etc..

DEPENDING ON WHAT SIDE OF THE FENCE YOU FALL ON THIS LINK WILL BE ACCEPTED OR REJECTED

science cannot prove that the Quran is wrong in any way.

How does science prove the quran is the word of God? What scientist (if any) use the quran as a source of reference?

Now with the book i got my opinion and you have yours but heres some question that came up in my head from reading your reply

You have your opinion based on the fact you are a muslim following islam and the book leans towards the quran being the word of God. You also base this opinion on pure speculation because according to your own words you have not read it yet. Would it be safe to say you are bias?

How do you know that the bible you are reading really is the real bible? i mean theres thousands of different copies some missing whole books

How do you know the hamburger from Mcdonalds is made from beef and not pork? Personally, I took it upon myself to reserahc and study various religions and beliefs. In doing so I was able to learn about the textus receptus major (something you don't learn about in sunday school) and study some of the languages the scriptures were written in. However you fail to realize the bible is a COLLECTION of books and NOT one book. Maybe you should research WHY the bibles have missing books before you label it as a falsehood.

Does the real bible in aramiac exist?

Please define "real bible."

how old are those aramiac and hebrew scriptures because if you can date them back to that time then there should only be one copy of the bible correct?

I am having trouble comprehending your question. Please re-phrase and ask again.

there would be no confusion on which book to follow

So why question "the people of the book" and declare the bible as being wrong? If no confusion is to be made about the quran, you would have EVERY muslim on this planet following the quran the EXACT same way, with no diviation and no difference in interpretation.

one last question in the KJV i read something that stuck to me and to this day i ask my friends this but they cant give me an answer i havent asked a priest or preacher yet so ill ask you...Exodus chapter 20 the first 5 or so verses3\ goes something like this...Im the ONE God do not put any graven images unto me, I am nothing like what i have created in the universe, on earth and beneath the seas.....Ever read the gospel of Barnabad

Why are you asking me about exodus 20: 1-5? Why are you mentioning the Gospel of Barnabas? The author of the book in question denounces the authenticity of the bible and the lineage of Jesus. If you are going to use the Gospel of Barnabas as proof/validity, you should be warned that it contradicts the position of the author and of other muslims.

MUSLIM PERSPECTIVE ON THE GOSPEL OF BARNABAS

CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE ON THE GOSPEL OF BARNABAS

May God guide ME and you on the correct path....

True.

 

[WHITE DEVIL]

Part of this that, in my opinion, contradicts the statement that the Quran explains science through metaphors is the fact that Arabic and Middle Eastern languages often employ very copius and often excessive use of similes and metaphors for nearly everything.

Instead of saying "they stopped us from doing anything" in a recent comment about Israel and campaigning in the West Bank, Hamas proclaimed, "They have tied our hands and legs and thrown us into the sea". Many of Jesus statements are filled with the same sort of grandiose verbiage in the Bible - "Look, I have seen Satan falling from the sky like locusts from the heavens" etc.

This type of speaking is quite common for Arabs, the Middle East, and Quran. In fact it is quite difficult to find things which are not referred to in figurative terms. To say that many of these are telling and prescient is a stretch imo.

 

[shoowilla]

I had a reply it completey got erased, i will be back to post later today or this week hersey until then heres the reply to that site u posted up http://www.answering-christianity.com/avijit_roy_quran_science_miracles_rebuttal.htm

 

[shoowilla]

You should care which side of the fence someone sits on because it will dictate how they believe or recieve information. How does science prove the quran is the word of God, and in what ways have science learned from the quran? Feel free to list examples.

When it comes to the truth there is no sides, there is one truth. Almost every scientific statement in the Quran is backed by science today and the ones that are not backed by science are because science cannot disprove or approve of them just yet. Science has learned many things from the Quran, read up on the renaissance and where it really started, by muslim scholars in Iraq. Some of the first and most important surgeries (e.g Cataracts), medicine, mathematics, biology, chemistry discoveries were made by muslims. There is a round globe at Al-Azhar university in Egypt which is a Islamic University, the globe dates back to I believe the year 998. Many of this information like the roundness of the earth was obtained from the Quran. Another way science can learn from the Quran is too look at what else it says, because so far everything that is in the Quran that science has discovered proves the Quran to be right. There are many, heres a couple from different fields of science.

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe” Surat Al-Anbiyaa verse 30

"And God has created every animal from water: of them there are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. God creates what He wills for verily God has power over all things.” Surat Al-Noor verse 45

In the first verse it talk about the big bang theory, this translation does not do justice to the real meaning in arabic, theres also many other verses that talk about the big bang theory in the Quran but lets move on. At the end of the verse it pretty much sums up evolution and its clear cut, along with the second verse I posted up.

Another one is the speed of light and the theory of relativity in the Quran go here http://www.speed-light.info/angels_speed_of_light.htm

And theres more but ill stop.

If you have not read the whole book why do you claim the book is unbiased? Why make such a claim before reading it?

What I stated was from what I “heard” the book was unbiased. You see people usually read reviews of books before they read them and I simply kicked down the reviews that I read, and clearly stated that this was not my opinion since that’s what I heard and read about the book.

Would you agree that your statement proves you follow what others say before you yourself have actually verified it? Would you also agree its illogical to claim something is unbiased without reading it?

No I don’t follow what others say unless its in a subject in which they are more knowledgable than me. But when it comes too books I believe a majority of the people listen to what others have to say about the book(reviews) before reading it, and I simply kicked it down to yall.

ttp://www.answer-islam.org/Science1.html]DEPENDING ON WHAT SIDE OF THE FENCE YOU FALL ON THIS LINK WILL BE ACCEPTED OR REJECTED

Depending on the knowledge you have you can call bullshit too. The guy who writes these articles writes complete non sense trying to refute scientific facts which by the way scientists back the Quran, all this just to keep his site open. Why? Because of the many conversions to Islam that have been going on for the past 3 decades. http://www.answering-christianity.com/avijit_roy_quran_science_miracles_rebuttal.htm I really didn’t want to put this link up, but I have too, this site has good and bad. The good is that it makes complete fools of the other site, the bad is that they use the same tactics the other site does to talk bad about the bible.

How does science prove the quran is the word of God?

In science there is the scientific theory. No amount of experimental testing can prove a hypothesis beyond a shadow of a doubt. But a hypothesis gains credibility by surviving various attempts to falsify it. And so far nothing has been falsified in what the Quran says. If the Quran makes such statements like life originated from water, which less than a hundred years ago such a thing would be ridiculous, yet it was in the Quran for over 1400 years. If the Quran is right in all aspects and nothing in it can be disproved then I believe its safe to say science proves the Quran is the word of God.

You have your opinion based on the fact you are a muslim following islam and the book leans towards the quran being the word of God. You also base this opinion on pure speculation because according to your own words you have not read it yet. Would it be safe to say you are bias?

I beleieved I stated that I am biased in my last post.

How do you know the hamburger from Mcdonalds is made from beef and not pork?

Knowledge.

Personally, I took it upon myself to reserahc and study various religions and beliefs. In doing so I was able to learn about the textus receptus major (something you don't learn about in sunday school) and study some of the languages the scriptures were written in. However you fail to realize the bible is a COLLECTION of books and NOT one book. Maybe you should research WHY the bibles have missing books before you label it as a falsehood.

Did you study Islam? It all comes down to this there are thousands of different copies of the bible. No matter how much studying you do, you will find one thing the bible was not preserved. By the way if you studied and researched about the biblical scriptures did you read up on the coming of the “Proclete” or “the Comforter” that jesus spoke about? The translation of that word in aramiac or greek is exactly the meaning of Mohammad in Arabic, from what I have read.

Please define "real bible."

The word of God transmitted by Jesus to the people and written down in his time.

So why question "the people of the book" and declare the bible as being wrong? If no confusion is to be made about the quran, you would have EVERY muslim on this planet following the quran the EXACT same way, with no diviation and no difference in interpretation.

Because the Quran, and the research I have done about the compilation of the bible tell me that the bible has been tampered with and changed. To the second part of your statement/question, if you grab a Quran from a follower of the nation of Islam, a shia, a sunni, a sufi etc.. etc.. etc.. you will find it to be EXACTLY the same. You say then there would be no deviation or difference in interpretation? That’s the beauty the truth is right there it depends on what intentions you have and if you really want to believe in Gods will and not for some cultural or personal benefits. If I give you directions to get to a certain place its up to you to get there. You can try to take shortcuts or get different ideas, but it all comes back to the directions or in this case the Quran. And by the way a majority of the muslims over 80 percent, are on the correct path and God knows best.

Why are you asking me about exodus 20: 1-5? Why are you mentioning the Gospel of Barnabas? The author of the book in question denounces the authenticity of the bible and the lineage of Jesus. If you are going to use the Gospel of Barnabas as proof/validity, you should be warned that it contradicts the position of the author and of other muslims.

MUSLIM PERSPECTIVE ON THE GOSPEL OF BARNABAS

CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE ON THE GOSPEL OF BARNABAS

I was just asking about Exodus because that always boggled me, how can the trinity be believed by so many people when those verses right there exist. With the gospel of Barnabas I know exactly what the muslim and christian perspectives are, I was asking your opinion but I guess you carry the same perspective as the latter link. Me I take the gospel of Barnabas the same way I take the other gospels, because they have both truth and falsness. The thing that sticks out to me is that it was Judas on the cross and not Jesus peace be upon him which makes sense to me since in the bible while the so called “jesus” is on the cross he asked God why he had forsaken him. Questions pop up in my mind like if that was jesus why would God ask himself that question? Why would the son of God as himself that question? Why would the prophet of God ask that question?

 

[HERESY]

mugabladep

When it comes to the truth there is no sides, there is one truth. Almost every scientific statement in the Quran is backed by science today and the ones that are not backed by science are because science cannot disprove or approve of them just yet.

If science has yet to disprove or approve certain scientific statements, how can you say the quran is 100% true?

Science has learned many things from the Quran, read up on the renaissance and where it really started, by muslim scholars in Iraq.

The renaissance of europe was not started by muslim scholars in Iraq. Was the renaissance influenced by islam? Yes. Was the renaissance influenced by other cultures and religions? Yes.

Again what has science learned from the quran?

Some of the first and most important surgeries (e.g Cataracts), medicine, mathematics, biology, chemistry discoveries were made by muslims.

And some of the most important surgical (e.g. Brain Surgery), medical, mathematical, biological and chemical discoveries were made by ancient egyptions who were polytheist 3000+ years before the islam was invented. Does that mean science proves polytheism? Why are you telling me about what muslims discovered? I have asked you "How does science prove the quran is the word of God, and in what ways have science learned from the quran?", please stick to the subject and answer the question.

There is a round globe at Al-Azhar university in Egypt which is a Islamic University, the globe dates back to I believe the year 998. Many of this information like the roundness of the earth was obtained from the Quran

And the book of Job talks about a round earth over 1500 years before Islam. Again what has science learned from the quran?

Another way science can learn from the Quran is too look at what else it says, because so far everything that is in the Quran that science has discovered proves the Quran to be right. There are many, heres a couple from different fields of science.

Again how does science validate the quran as the word of god? A hindu can say the Vedas are valid because they are the oldest writings. Christians and Jews can say the bible is correct because of prophetics.

I will not address your examples (I am trying to conserve space), but they have been addressed in the links previously provided.

What I stated was from what I “heard” the book was unbiased. You see people usually read reviews of books before they read them and I simply kicked down the reviews that I read, and clearly stated that this was not my opinion since that’s what I heard and read about the book.

Yet a couple of days later you seem to change your position by stating:

Biased towards who? I peeped some of the book and he was critcizing the torah, bible and hadeeth, but he couldnt find anything wrong in the Quran and dude wasnt even a muslim.

Lets move on.

Depending on the knowledge you have you can call bullshit too. The guy who writes these articles writes complete non sense trying to refute scientific facts which by the way scientists back the Quran

He writes complete nonsense to you because you are a muslim and he is attacking your belief system. An athiest would consider ALL of this complete nonsense, but what scientists back the quran? Can you give me a list of credible/unbiased scientists that endorse or cite the quran as a reference?

http://www.answering-christianity.c...es_rebuttal.htm I really didn’t want to put this link up, but I have too, this site has good and bad. The good is that it makes complete fools of the other site, the bad is that they use the same tactics the other site does to talk bad about the bible.

Ok, and once again these guys refute all of that here. Unlike you I am not biased and leaning towards one site or the other being correct. What I am saying is the book/author in question is biased, you are biased and that you have provided no evidence to show that science proves the quran is the word of God.

In science there is the scientific theory.

Which usually comes after a hypothesis has been proven.

No amount of experimental testing can prove a hypothesis beyond a shadow of a doubt.

So why do we have theory (I am NOT saying theory can't be changed) and fact? Why do we have Scientific Law?

But a hypothesis gains credibility by surviving various attempts to falsify it.

So why not treat the quran in the same fashion?

 

[HERESY]

And so far nothing has been falsified in what the Quran says. If the Quran makes such statements like life originated from water, which less than a hundred years ago such a thing would be ridiculous, yet it was in the Quran for over 1400 years.

The quran is NOT the only writing implying or directly stating that life came from water nor is such a theory exclusive to the quran. Some people and religions that predate the quran believe the Gods themselves came from waters (please refer to Sumerian lore for such an example).

If the Quran is right in all aspects and nothing in it can be disproved then I believe its safe to say science proves the Quran is the word of God.

You have NOT shown how science proves the quran is the word of God. Many things in the quran have been proven to be incorrect and the only thing muslims will fall back on is "faulty interpretation."

I beleieved I stated that I am biased in my last post.

With that being said every piece of info you have been given most likely goes in one ear and right out the other. You are not objective and because you are not objective you will continue to sit on your side of the fence. My advice to you is to learn the position of others and remain objective for as long as you can. Of course we are all human and have our bias, but you are not even trying to understand the other side.

Knowledge.

Knowledge of what? You have a BELIEF that it is beef and not pork because it probably tastes like beef and you have been told it is beef. Does that make it beef? No. Have you tested it? No. Where does your knowledge come from?

Did you study Islam?

Sure did, and I openly had convos with muslims on this board. I learned about islam by reading on my own and by talking to muslims.

It all comes down to this there are thousands of different copies of the bible.

Now ask yourself WHY you have thousands of different versions. Could it be you have many versions because people want to put their spin on it? Could it be you have many versions because Satan/Shatan was capable of perverting it? If he was capable of perverting man and Gods spoken word to man (Adam) why would he have trouble perverting something written? So which version of the quran do you keep the Hafs or Warsh?

No matter how much studying you do, you will find one thing the bible was not preserved.

Can you please clarify your statement? I am having trouble understanding it, thanks.

By the way if you studied and researched about the biblical scriptures did you read up on the coming of the “Proclete” or “the Comforter” that jesus spoke about? The translation of that word in aramiac or greek is exactly the meaning of Mohammad in Arabic, from what I have read.

This is something I have addressed on this site before. You can read this if you want my position.

The word of God transmitted by Jesus to the people and written down in his time.

When did Jesus transmit it to the people and who wrote it down? I have never read of Jesus quoting/citing anything other than old testament scriptures. Are you talking about the Injeel?

Because the Quran, and the research I have done about the compilation of the bible tell me that the bible has been tampered with and changed.

If the bible is wrong and has been tampered with how do you know the parts you accept are not wrong? What methods have you used to validate them? The bible HAS been changed. This is NOT up for debate. You have many versions of the bible that were made because of a growing religious monopoly. Political climate also contributed to the many versions of the bible. We can talk all day about the council of nicaea, and constantines bible, but you are NOT taking into account WHERE the current bibles come from, how they were translated, who translated them etc. Do you know WHERE these translations and versions originate?

To the second part of your statement/question, if you grab a Quran from a follower of the nation of Islam, a shia, a sunni, a sufi etc.. etc.. etc.. you will find it to be EXACTLY the same

Again, which version of the quran do you keep the Hafs or Warsh? If you imply they are the same you are in disagreement with this muslim and deny the FACTS set before you. If you agree they are different you have contradicted yourself and have proven yourself wrong.

You say then there would be no deviation or difference in interpretation? That’s the beauty the truth is right there it depends on what intentions you have .....And by the way a majority of the muslims over 80 percent, are on the correct path and God knows best.

Did you not say "When it comes to the truth there is no sides, there is one truth"? Please reconcile the two statements. How do you know they are on the correct path is it something you know based on their action/deed or because of the heart? If the numbers are based on action/deed when have you met over 80% of the muslims? If it is based on the heart how do you know the persons heart and when have you encountered over 80% of muslims to know the heart? What polls or evidence do you have to support the numbers?

I was just asking about Exodus because that always boggled me, how can the trinity be believed by so many people when those verses right there exist.

How can the trinity not be believed when Verses such as Gen 1:26, Gen 3:22, Gen. 11:7, Isaiah 6:8, John 1:1-18, Isaiah 48:16 and Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4-9.) The trinity is NOT three gods. Why does the quran use various forms of plurality such?

With the gospel of Barnabas I know exactly what the muslim and christian perspectives are I was asking your opinion but I guess you carry the same perspective as the latter link

1. Please list the muslim and christian perspectives.

2. You simply asked if I read it you NEVER asked my opinion.

which makes sense to me since in the bible while the so called “jesus” is on the cross he asked God why he had forsaken him. Questions pop up in my mind like if that was jesus why would God ask himself that question? Why would the son of God as himself that question? Why would the prophet of God ask that question?

I have heard three different versiosn from muslims. One version claims its Judas, another claim its some person who had a face change and another was the person was a faithful follower of Jesus. Which one do you believe?

What Jesus said on the cross is a passage from Psalm 22. If you understand 2 Cor. 5:21 and Gods view on sin and payment for sin you will have your answer.

 

[shoowilla]

[The quran is NOT the only writing implying or directly stating that life came from water nor is such a theory exclusive to the quran. Some people and religions that predate the quran believe the Gods themselves came from waters (please refer to Sumerian lore for such an example).

Ima do quick replies…gods coming from water is one thing the creation coming from water is another, deny it if you want. But i know your thinking about it.

You have NOT shown how science proves the quran is the word of God. Many things in the quran have been proven to be incorrect and the only thing muslims will fall back on is "faulty interpretation."

Yes i have, The only way the people think they can disprove the Quran is through lack of knowledge and understanding of the Arabic language, like you told me in the last post your going to believe anything someone else tells you? Because I believe you don’t know Arabic correct? But you believe the lies posted up by non arabs, or people who do not read or understand Arabic using English translations to prove something little here and there, show me real scientific facts that dispute the Quran and by the way there arent any.

With that being said every piece of info you have been given most likely goes in one ear and right out the other. You are not objective and because you are not objective you will continue to sit on your side of the fence. My advice to you is to learn the position of others and remain objective for as long as you can. Of course we are all human and have our bias, but you are not even trying to understand the other side.

I was simply being blunt and truthful ofcourse im bias, im not gonna sit here and lie.

Knowledge of what? You have a BELIEF that it is beef and not pork because it probably tastes like beef and you have been told it is beef. Does that make it beef? No. Have you tested it? No. Where does your knowledge come from?

This is Mcdonals, not the local grill downtown. All information on what they serve is available, I check everything before I eat, to see if it conatains lard or any other contents of pork. And that is called knowledge.

Sure did, and I openly had convos with muslims on this board. I learned about islam by reading on my own and by talking to muslims.

I sure hope so because so far everything you said came from the computer islamic scholars at answering islam. What books/sites have you read? and speaking to muslims on the internet is not a healthy way of getting knowledge on islam. Unless you are going to message boards with real scholars or knowledgable people and not siccness.net.

Now ask yourself WHY you have thousands of different versions. Could it be you have many versions because people want to put their spin on it? Could it be you have many versions because Satan/Shatan was capable of perverting it? If he was capable of perverting man and Gods spoken word to man (Adam) why would he have trouble perverting something written?

Ofcourse the shatan and people put their spin on it that’s what im saying.

So which version of the quran do you keep the Hafs or Warsh?

Haha, ill address this later on down.

If the bible is wrong and has been tampered with how do you know the parts you accept are not wrong?

Because the parts i accept are in the Quran

Again, which version of the quran do you keep the Hafs or Warsh? If you imply they are the same you are in disagreement with=http://www.submission.org/quran/warsh.html]this muslim[/URL] and deny the FACTS set before you. If you agree they are different you have contradicted yourself and have proven yourself wrong.

Haha, the difference is in pronunciation, if that’s the case then theres 10 different Qurans because the Quran can be recited in 10 different ways those are just two of them. There is no difference in words only pronunciation so again I say the Quran is exactly the same no matter where you go. And by the way trying to get real Islamic knowledge from the submission site is like getting Islamic information from answering islam. Submission site is not run by muslims, they tell people not to believe in the hadeeth along with a bunch of wacked out stuff, the site is run by people like the ones running answering islam.

Did you not say "When it comes to the truth there is no sides, there is one truth"? Please reconcile the two statements. How do you know they are on the correct path is it something you know based on their action/deed or because of the heart? If the numbers are based on action/deed when have you met over 80% of the muslims? If it is based on the heart how do you know the persons heart and when have you encountered over 80% of muslims to know the heart? What polls or evidence do you have to support the numbers?

The truth is there its up to you to accept it or not. The truth of science is there but people refute it based on their beliefs, ie answering islam. When it comes to the truth of islam and why theres sects I already answered that. 80 percent of the muslims in the world are sunni, to be on the sunnah is the correct path but you have to stick on it. The way I stated it was wrong, I should have said they had the right belief only God knows if they are on the correct path. You can have the right belief but not be on the straight path that’s why muslims across the world ask God to guide them on the straight path atleast 17 times a day. And these numbers are numbers that I have seen and im simply using them as a reference. Muslims don’t have a savior everyone is responsible for their own sins and no one is held responsible from someone else’s sin. In islam there is no guarantee, I once heard someone say in every religion they guarantee heaven if you believe in their ideas, islam is the only one that cant guarantee you heaven but it can guarantee you hell.

How can the trinity not be believed when Verses such as Gen 1:26, Gen 3:22, Gen. 11:7, Isaiah 6:8, John 1:1-18, Isaiah 48:16 and Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4-9.) The trinity is NOT three gods.

Explain the meaning of exodus then. Explain to me the trinity and how come it was something that wasn’t practiced until 200 years the departure of Jesus pbuh.

Why does the quran use various forms of plurality such?

In the English language it makes no sense but in Arabic it’s a way people speak to show greatness.

I have heard three different versiosn from muslims. One version claims its Judas, another claim its some person who had a face change and another was the person was a faithful follower of Jesus. Which one do you believe?

What I posted was in no way muslim perspective because I really am not sure about that subject I can find out for you if you like though. I simply link the gospel of barnabas with the bible.

What Jesus said on the cross is a passage from Psalm 22. If you understand 2 Cor. 5:21 and Gods view on sin and payment for sin you will have your answer.

Huh? Do you believe what your saying or are you just trying to refute?


hope what i posted made sense ive been up since fajr. Allah ihdina al seerat al mustageem.

 

[Home-E]

damn...heresy always pwns everyone. LOL. Re: catholics and mary. The mary of the bible and the mary that the catholics pray to are totally different. the mary of the bible pointed others to jesus. mary is not the co mediatrix like the apparitions (which are recognized by the catholic church) state, that view is anti-biblical, along with many others. the apparitions of mary that the catholics recognize are just the devil trying to lead everyone astray from the true gospel. satan is the father of lies. anyways, @ Heresy, what is your belief on hell, eternal or temporary?

 

[shoowilla]

no one owned me hom-Eboy.

 

[HERESY]

Ima do quick replies…gods coming from water is one thing the creation coming from water is another, deny it if you want. But i know your thinking about it.

My advice to you is study ancient religions (especially those from asia and afrika) becuase water creation (animals and humans) is NOT exclusive to the quran.

Yes i have, The only way the people think they can disprove the Quran is through lack of knowledge and understanding of the Arabic language, like you told me in the last post your going to believe anything someone else tells you? Because I believe you don’t know Arabic correct? But you believe the lies posted up by non arabs, or people who do not read or understand Arabic using English translations to prove something little here and there, show me real scientific facts that dispute the Quran and by the way there arent any.

You have NOT shown how science proves the quran is the word of god. The only thing you have done is provide info suggesting topics mentioned in the quran are supported by science. This is NOT the same as science proving the quran is the word of God.

If the quran is perfect and the word of God, it should not matter what language it is translated to. It should remain the same and have the same understanding, and I shouldn't have to learn arabic to understand it. When have I said I believe the "lies" posted by non arabs? What does arab have to do with truth or lie? Do you not have white, chinese, afrikan and mexican muslims who visit mecca and pray towards the east with their arab bretheren? Do you believe something is true just because it came from an arab who professed a belief similar to yours?

Again if I give you an example you will simply say I am interpreting it wrong or make some excuse as to why you are correct. No thanks.

I was simply being blunt and truthful ofcourse im bias, im not gonna sit here and lie.

With that being said why are we having this convo? You admit to being biased, and I have proven the book/author is biased. You are not willing to learn what others think and believe and until you do so it will forever be a case of "I am right you are wrong."

This is Mcdonals, not the local grill downtown. All information on what they serve is available, I check everything before I eat, to see if it conatains lard or any other contents of pork. And that is called knowledge.

:shaking my head: Is transfat...no..forget it.

I sure hope so because so far everything you said came from the computer islamic scholars at answering islam. What books/sites have you read? and speaking to muslims on the internet is not a healthy way of getting knowledge on islam. Unless you are going to message boards with real scholars or knowledgable people and not siccness.net.

1. You are lying when you say everything I have posted is from answering islam. Please look at the links again. I have not posted the links to prove a point of the quran or bible being correct. What I have done is posted the links in order to prove the author is biased. Can you find ONE quote from me saying I agree with the links or endorse them? No.

2. I have read the quran and studied with muslims HERE (real world), and if you read past posts/threads you will find me often referring to the computer store owner I am friends with and my friend Rehan. Both are muslims who I have learned from. A muslim school used to be opened here (I don't know if its still opened), and they were willing to teach me a thing or two also. Lay off the assumptions and leave them at the door. Your attacks leave much to be desired and do nothing for your arguement. If you want further discussion on the surrahs and writings of islamic scholars present it as a new thread, but don't make feeble attempts to use your misconceptions as ammo against me. You have been warned.

3. You don't know everyone on this site and what religion they follow. I'll leave it at that.

4. Lets apply the same arguement to you. What biblical text have you read? Are you capable of reading latin, greek, hebrew or arabic when prsented to you? Have you studied with a lexicon or concordance? If so which ones?

Ofcourse the shatan and people put their spin on it that’s what im saying.

And it happens with the quran! If it didn't you wouldn't have many sects of islam, division amongst muslims and many interpretations.

Haha, ill address this later on down.

Do so.

Because the parts i accept are in the Quran

You are simply accepting the validity of the parts that are similar or relate to the bible.The problem with this is several topics not presented in the quran are presented in the bible. Does this mean they are incorrect? No it simply means they are not discussed in the quran, but according to your belief you would throw it out the window because it is not in the quran.

Haha, the difference is in pronunciation, if that’s the case then theres 10 different Qurans because the Quran can be recited in 10 different ways those are just two of them.

What would be the purpose of reciting the quran 10 different ways? Are the two versions written in the same language? If a difference in pronunctiation exists they are different. You said and I quote "you grab a Quran from a follower of the nation of Islam, a shia, a sunni, a sufi etc.. etc.. etc.. you will find it to be EXACTLY the same." and you place emphasis on the word exactly by typing it in CAPS. If a difference in pronunctiation exists it is IMPOSSIBLE to be the EXACT same thing. :dead:

There is no difference in words only pronunciation so again I say the Quran is exactly the same no matter where you go.

What is your position on Subhii al-Saalih and his position that words have been changed or removed, vowells have been substituted etc?

And by the way trying to get real Islamic knowledge from the submission site is like getting Islamic information from answering islam. Submission site is not run by muslims, they tell people not to believe in the hadeeth along with a bunch of wacked out stuff, the site is run by people like the ones running answering islam.

1. I posted the site because it is site promoting islam and you are muslim.

2. Where is your proof that people running the site are not muslim?

3. So what if they do not believe the hadeeth? What does teh author of the book say about the hadeeth and what did YOU say about the hadeeth?

The truth is there its up to you to accept it or not. The truth of science is there but people refute it based on their beliefs, ie answering islam. When it comes to the truth of islam and why theres sects I already answered that.

Again, I am NOT asking for the quran to prove science. I am asking for science to prove the quran is the word of God. BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

[HERESY]

When it comes to the truth of islam and why theres sects I already answered that. 80 percent of the muslims in the world are sunni, to be on the sunnah is the correct path but you have to stick on it. The way I stated it was wrong, I should have said they had the right belief only God knows if they are on the correct path.

I have no problem with accepting your correction/clarification, but at the end of the day this is what you believe because you are a muslim. If I told you I KNOW different because I have talked to God personally you would consider me a lunatic (or any other term you could come up with) or you would possibly listen. This is the difference between yourself and I. Keep this in mind.

You can have the right belief but not be on the straight path that’s why muslims across the world ask God to guide them on the straight path atleast 17 times a day.

And if you do it 16 time times what happens? Do you get extra credit for asking 170 times?

And these numbers are numbers that I have seen and im simply using them as a reference.

These are numbers you have read.

Muslims don’t have a savior everyone is responsible for their own sins and no one is held responsible from someone else’s sin.

I understand this. If I have a question about Islam, and I don't understand it I will present it. With that being said spare me the history or doctrine/dogma of islam.

In islam there is no guarantee, I once heard someone say in every religion they guarantee heaven if you believe in their ideas, islam is the only one that cant guarantee you heaven but it can guarantee you hell.

So islam is one big crap game? Roll a 7 or 11 on the first roll and make it to heaven? Rolla snake eyes, 3 or 12 on teh first roll and crap out? If you have no gurantee why are you a muslim? If you have no gurantee why even believe you are on the straight path?

Explain the meaning of exodus then. Explain to me the trinity and how come it was something that wasn’t practiced until 200 years the departure of Jesus pbuh

Why should I explain anything to you? Do you have a brain? Do you not have eyes? You are looking at the trinity as THREE GODS. This is NOT correct. Look at God as THREE PARTS. Look at God as a TITLE/POSITION. The meaning of exodus is referring to IDOLS and the worship of other gods. The hebrews were out of egypt where polytheism was the norm and about to go into canaan where once again polytheism was the norm. Polytheism is NOT the same concept as the trinity doctrine. The majority of verses I gave you are from the old testament and written well before Jesus ever walked the earth. Please read them.

In the English language it makes no sense but in Arabic it’s a way people speak to show greatness.

So allah is referring to himself as WE (kings greatness/royalty) but in other verses he is saying I. Ok...

What I posted was in no way muslim perspective because I really am not sure about that subject I can find out for you if you like though. I simply link the gospel of barnabas with the bible

I have already posted the three different muslim perspectives.

1. Judas was crucified.

2. Jesus' pupil was crucified

3. Someones face was changed (this one is often inter changed with #2) and he was crucified.

Huh? Do you believe what your saying or are you just trying to refute?

Do you understand what I have posted or do you simply want to refute?

hope what i posted made sense ive been up since fajr. Allah ihdina al seerat al mustageem.

Why be concerned about a straight path if you have no gurantee?

Good day.

 

[HERESY]

damn...heresy always pwns everyone. LOL. Re: catholics and mary. The mary of the bible and the mary that the catholics pray to are totally different. the mary of the bible pointed others to jesus. mary is not the co mediatrix like the apparitions (which are recognized by the catholic church) state, that view is anti-biblical, along with many others. the apparitions of mary that the catholics recognize are just the devil trying to lead everyone astray from the true gospel. satan is the father of lies. anyways, @ Heresy, what is your belief on hell, eternal or temporary?

Hell = SEVERAL PARTS. Hell = place ORIGINALLY created for REBELS (angels who fell.) Hell = Tossed into the lake of fire. Hell = ETERNAL and PLACE OF TORMENT (based on teachings of Jesus AND of the words of demons before being cast out.)

 

[shoowilla]

And if you do it 16 time times what happens? Do you get extra credit for asking 170 times?

That line is in surat Al-Fatiha or “the opening”, 17 rakka’s are mandatory everyday for muslims. So one who prays 5 times a day says that atleast 17 times just threw that out there.

So islam is one big crap game? Roll a 7 or 11 on the first roll and make it to heaven? Rolla snake eyes, 3 or 12 on teh first roll and crap out? If you have no gurantee why are you a muslim? If you have no gurantee why even believe you are on the straight path?

Umm ok….God says don’t think that we will leave you untested just because you believe… I could make the shahada and still end up in hell fire on the day of judgement, someone can call himself a muslim but it all depends on their actions and whats in their hearts that determines if they will go to heaven or not. Once you die you take two things with you your good and bad deeds, if your good deeds out weigh your bad its all good… that’s what that means if you stick to it and do right then God Is most gracious most merciful. Im a muslim because it’s the right thing, now its up to me to actually do the verb of islam and surrender to the will of God. Its easy for you just believe jesus as your savior and do as you do and youll be all good, but hey thats you so keep on.

Why should I explain anything to you? Do you have a brain? Do you not have eyes? You are looking at the trinity as THREE GODS. This is NOT correct. Look at God as THREE PARTS. Look at God as a TITLE/POSITION. The meaning of exodus is referring to IDOLS and the worship of other gods. The hebrews were out of egypt where polytheism was the norm and about to go into canaan where once again polytheism was the norm. Polytheism is NOT the same concept as the trinity doctrine. The majority of verses I gave you are from the old testament and written well before Jesus ever walked the earth. Please read them.

None of what your saying has made sense to me concerning the trinity nor the people who are leaving Christianity for that same reason.

So allah is referring to himself as WE (kings greatness/royalty) but in other verses he is saying I. Ok...

Speaking on this subject on your end is useless

Do you understand what I have posted or do you simply want to refute?

I dont understand what you posted and i think you dont believe in what you posted

Why be concerned about a straight path if you have no gurantee?

The correct path is clear, I just have to self struggle to stay on it and ask for Gods mercy, because without his mercy not even the prophets enter heaven. Its easy to just believe and be saved, thats what people like tell themselves, so they can keep on doing wha THEY want to do, but its not as easy as that.