abondonment of children by black males

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Mar 4, 2007
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#1
(OOPS I SPELLED ABANDONMENT wrong) lol.



this is a "new" theory(thats what it said in my sociology book, who knows how new) about Child Abondonment:
As we saw earlier in this chapter, African Americans continue to experience racial prejudice and discrimination today. Therefore, when faced with the fact that as many as 60 percent of African American children are abandoned by their fathers, many social scientists blame the problem solely or mainly on racial prejudice and discrimination. But according to Harvard's black sociologist Orlando Patterson (2000), the problem comes primarily from the traditional culture of slavery and only secondarily from contemporary racism.

This culture, in Patterson's view, encourages African American men to leave their children behind. It has evolved from their forfathers' lives as slaves (from about 1640 to 1865) and as poor sharecroppers (from 1880 to 1940). As slaves, the men did not have any legitimacy or authority as fathers or husbands. Moreover, most of their lives away from stable households with children. Yet their masters encouraged them to have as many children as possible without having to provide for them. Later, as sharecroppers, African American men could survive only by putting their wives and children to work on their wives and childlren to work on their farms. THus, they tended to marry young and have as many children as they could. But by explooiting their children for labor, they failed to develop a strong parent-child attachment.

African American men are further confronted with an array of contemporary problems that often affect minorities, such as poverty, unemployment, low income, and substandard housing. As a consequence, there is a rhigh rate of paternal abandonment of children among African Americans. It should be noted, however, that the great majority of African American fathers behave responsible toward their children. It is a minority of ususally poor black men with little education who abandon their children. But because of these men's high rates of fertility(i LOL'ed at that!), they produce many children, more than half of whom they will leave fatherless (Patterson, 2000)
what's everyone's thoughts on this?
do you think this is a good theory of explanation for the epidemic that we can all observe, especially listening to the type of music we do.


Do you think that this is invalid, why?

I for one, have never contemplated this, basically i've observed many of my friends and/or aquaintances that have children but act very irresponsible (black or not) are just wrapped up into partying and don't want attachment w/ the kid because of the baby mama being either an ex they don't wanna deal w/ no more, or just someone in general they don't particularly like.

But it seems like an interesting theory to talk about...
 
Jun 27, 2005
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#2
Its probably at least partially true in the sense that it bred that type of culture and environment and it became to a certain extent in poorer black communities, a "social norm."
 
May 24, 2007
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i doubt it, i mean slavery didnt happen that long ago, so the possibility of being evolutionary or anything like that is unlikely. I agree more with the statements about the low income, low employment, and poverty. I think those are more of a factor. That and also the lack of father figures in young kids life, which contributes to the cycle of more fatherless kids.
 
Oct 16, 2006
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mylot.com
#4
I don't think it has to do with slavery or anything too deep like that. Speaking from a Black male's perspective, "Life is already hard for us... we're barely scraping by ourselves, so to take car of someone else besides us?" I think it's more of a cycle of the lack of a father figure in their lives, so it's kinda "like father, like son". It's also something that we see so much, that it doesn't shock us anymore, which is disheartening. It's a sad, vicious cycle which is intensified by factors like Nova said... low income, low employment, poverty, etc. Also high-incarceration rates also play a factor. If anything, the federal gov. has done nothing to solve the problem. Hell, they've made it worse. I don't think many people know the whole answer to that question. People in the African American community are asking that question all the time. Where are all the fathers? It's a complicated answer which may be different for different people, but the end result is the same. Regardless, its a problem that needs to be fixed. & it won't be fixed overnight.
 
May 5, 2002
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#5
i think fathers abandoning their kids is an epidemic in general. yes, it is severe in the black population, but it's pretty bad across the board. i think dude is right when he said that it's become accepted that fathers disappear and aren't around. we give cookies and kudos to fathers who raise their kids like they are doing something noble rather than fundamental.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#6
we give cookies and kudos to fathers who raise their kids like they are doing something noble rather than fundamental.
I don't nessecarily agree with this because first of all, I think we give kudos to all parents who raise their kids well. But second I think we live in a world, arguably, where it has become much more difficult to raise boys then girls. And in this world fathers are often the most important role model to their sons. I'm not dismissing the problems that girls have as they mature, but in schools girls are outpacing boys in almost every category (save science and math) and schools have begun to tailor their classes toward girl-oriented activities. Boys have more "behavioral" problems, are diagnosed with more learning disabilities, commit suicide at higher rates, Boys have higher rates of incarceration, crime, murder; lower rates of highschool, college graduation; also, as boys turn to men, less blue collared jobs in America which used to typically be occupied by middle and working class males have dissapeared. I remember growing up and seeing the kids who had fathers go to college, pickup a trade, balance their budgets and put downpayments on houses. I remember the kids who didn't have fathers didn't graduate highschool, or started but didn't graduate college, work unskilled jobs or cheap retail, have alcohol/drug problems, or are in jail/dead. Of course this is subjective but I really think a good father who can raise a son to succeed does deserve kudos (as does the mother.)


http://boysproject.net/statistics.html
 
May 5, 2002
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#7
all good parents deserve kudos, but my point is if you think you deserve an extra pat on the back for doing some shit you're supposed to do as a result of decisions made in the bedroom, you're trippin. it's like that chris rock skit about how people want some props for shit they are just supposed to do.

examples include:

"i ain't never been to jail!"

"i take care of my kids"
 
Mar 4, 2007
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#8
yeah, well hillsyde, i pretty much agree w/ what you say, its just a vicious cycle, that is helped along by the government and educational system...

but, you see, i think this cycle has BECOME acceptable from the times of slavery, like, where did this tradition come from? and like sergeant said, its men in general as well...like, how come women are stigmatized much more than men for leaving the home and 'starting a new family', i believe it goes back to the days of 'women at home, man at work' days, it was just how it was for most north americans.

But it could have never been kept alive in young black male adults unless the government cut educational spending at schools, and the media didn't enforce a stupid dumbed down image of 'the black man' (cough cough, soulja boy) and many other factors that are sociological in nature..
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#9
I read a book a long time ago. If I'm not mistaken, it was by Earl Ofarai Hutchinson? I really cant remember. Anyways, the book explained how Slavery put us in a condition to which we did not stay as a family unit, a husband, a father, a provider. For one to say "it aint deep" is one that is surely jesting. It, was and IS deep, even as I type this in 2008. *reference the Willie Lynch papers*

He went on (in the book) to explain different behaviors of Black folks here in North America, and a direct link to Slavery that MAY HAVE produced the behavior to be that way. I need to find the book (if I can), he had some pretty strong arguements.
 
Jul 20, 2002
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i doubt it, i mean slavery didnt happen that long ago, so the possibility of being evolutionary or anything like that is unlikely. I agree more with the statements about the low income, low employment, and poverty. I think those are more of a factor. That and also the lack of father figures in young kids life, which contributes to the cycle of more fatherless kids.
I agree that a cycle exists however it has more to do with bitchassness, if you're running up in chicks delivering creampie's you have to man up and be responsible. A large component of this issue is that some dudes think its square to get a job and be faithful to one girl. In order to break the cycle we have to educate the young ladies that are at risk of becoming pregnant.
 
Dec 18, 2002
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#12
"i ain't never been to jail!"

"i take care of my kids"
All stereotypes derived from a stand-up comedian aside...

Ain't that a bitch?

Patterson's conclusion, paraphrased, is that the black men of today (of those descended from slaves) are disposed to having children and leaving them from a sort of conditioning by white slave owners to do so.

I'm fuckin speechless.

This is why I cannot for my life take what these "experts" come up with.

The argument could be made that all men are naturally inclined to procreating with different women and having many children. If that doesn't sound natural I don't know what does. Since the beginning of time, having kids has been a form of ensuring survival in one form or another. Fast forward. Humans have invented civility. Cities, laws, social structures, religion, education, and etc. Men today have real fuckin choices.

Is a Filipino man who has 7 daughters disposed to selling their bodies to rich americans? Hell no, but he's going to do it to survive and that's his choice ultimately.

Is a black man going to leave a child behind because hes disposed to? Hell no, but hes either unaware he has a child, apt not to take it out of financial reasons, in prison, out hustlin, or just not sure the woman he cheated on his wife with really had his child and is worthy of ruining a good relationship.

These excuses could be said of any man, white or whatever, but we all know where the pressure squeezes hardest in this country. That sociologist don't know what the fuck he's talking about.
 
Mar 4, 2007
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All stereotypes derived from a stand-up comedian aside...

Ain't that a bitch?

Patterson's conclusion, paraphrased, is that the black men of today (of those descended from slaves) are genetically disposed to having children and leaving them from a sort of conditioning by white slave owners to do so.

I'm fuckin speechless.

This is why I cannot for my life take what these "experts" come up with.

The argument could be made that all men are naturally inclined to procreating with different women and having many children. If that doesn't sound natural I don't know what does. Since the beginning of time, having kids has been a form of ensuring survival in one form or another. Fast forward. Humans have invented civility. Cities, laws, social structures, religion, education, and etc. Men today have real fuckin choices.

Is a Filipino man who has 7 daughters genetically disposed to selling their bodies to rich americans? Hell no, but he's going to do it to survive and that's his choice ultimately.

Is a black man going to leave a child behind because hes genetically disposed to? Hell no, but hes either unaware he has a child, apt not to take it out of financial reasons, in prison, out hustlin, or just not sure the woman he cheated on his wife with really had his child and is worthy of ruining a good relationship.

These excuses could be said of any man, white or whatever, but we all know where the pressure squeezes hardest in this country. That sociologist don't know what the fuck he's talking about.
naw i really don't think that was he meant, as a sociologist he aint talkin bout genetics, and i don't see a mention of genetic in this..
i think this sociologist is talking about a pattern, just like,machismo in mexican culture...
 
Dec 18, 2002
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#14
naw i really don't think that was he meant, as a sociologist he aint talkin bout genetics, and i don't see a mention of genetic in this..
i think this sociologist is talking about a pattern, just like,machismo in mexican culture...
lol

I took out the word "genetics," I say genetics as something learned in humans and passed down.
 
Feb 7, 2006
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#15
people always fixate on slavery, the article clearly said that the pattern was further enforced and ingrained during the sharecropper era after slavery. So that's generations of AA who have been practicing this behavior from when it was the "good" thing to do...it's gonna take generations to reverse the trend as well.
 
May 5, 2002
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#16
the fact is, humans have evolved since the cave man days, and so have the standards of what is acceptable and not acceptable given our advancement as an entire species. no matter the race, it is frowned upon for anyone to have kids and ditch them, whether they are female or male. somewhere along the line, reproduction has become something that society prefers is done under the guises of marriage and commitment to family. of course, that only happens about 20% of the time, but the thing is that we are technically capable of doing it and we don't. is it nature that causes our utter lack of regard for the morals of "our" culture, or are we just reckless and lazy?
 
Sep 7, 2006
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#17
Everyone blames the male for the ongoing rise in single mothers (expecialy in black commuities). I fault the women just as much, maybe a little more. I see this first hand too often , it is the same situation with about 10-12 single parent women i personaly know. Women that are going to be sexualy active should look into birth control, also be active with protection (condoms) and not just expect the dude to have one. And Most Importatly ,,quit having unprotected sex with dead-beat dudes. If dude that you known for 1 month has 4 other baby mommas, 2 felonies, no job, lives with mom, and is an all around dirt ball,,,dont fucc him. And then act suprised when he ditches you, lol
 
Dec 2, 2006
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#18
its called rsponsibility.

it scares alot of people no matter your race. people that raise their kids to be respectable people are doing what their suppose to do. yeah, there is alot of women that dont see the importance of male figures in their kids life boy or girl. alot of spite towards a parent of your child only creates more heartache for everyone involved including the kids. in general as you get older you get wiser. yeah, there are alot of fathers that rather be in the club fronting like their the coolest thing on earth trying to holler at every female and forget about their kid(s). this is sad imo. people need to remember that the kids are the future and without guidance they can and most likely will make the same mistakes you did without it. race is unimportant.
 
May 24, 2007
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#20
it scares alot of people no matter your race. people that raise their kids to be respectable people are doing what their suppose to do. yeah, there is alot of women that dont see the importance of male figures in their kids life boy or girl. alot of spite towards a parent of your child only creates more heartache for everyone involved including the kids. in general as you get older you get wiser. yeah, there are alot of fathers that rather be in the club fronting like their the coolest thing on earth trying to holler at every female and forget about their kid(s). this is sad imo. people need to remember that the kids are the future and without guidance they can and most likely will make the same mistakes you did without it. race is unimportant.
thats a good word, responsibility. trouble is when we grow up in a shitty enviroment, and without a guiding hand, it can be very hard to resist bad influences. especially when everyone around you is not doing the right thing either.