HUDSON TRADED

Gringo Starr · Dec 17, 2004

Giants still got Jason Schmidt(sp)???That dude is a hogg on the mound...

Mcleanhatch · Dec 17, 2004

LIL CEEZ MAKIN GEEZ said:

Bobby Cox (ATL manager) said no deal PERIOD would be made involving Marcus Giles

Mcleanhatch · Dec 17, 2004

Lil Pino said:

true power pitching is very important. but so are true #1 Aces and Hudson is one of them.

the A's now only have one #1 Ace pitcher left and that is their only proven power pitcher Mulder

Jae Reekay said:

YES he is. he is one of the best. and thats coming from a Dodger Fan.

Mcleanhatch · Dec 17, 2004

just to create some controvery here is my list of the top ten pitchers in baseball.

these are true aces. and they are in no particlular order

1. Mike Mussina
2. Pedro Martinez
3. Kevin Brown
4. Curt Schilling
5. Randy Johnson
6. Tim Hudson
7. Roger Clemens
8. Jason Schmidt
9. Mark Mulder
10. Mark Prior

honorable mention
Josh Beckett
Johan Santana these two have true #1 stuff
ben sheets
brad penny
roy oswalt
matt morris

G-Dubb · Dec 17, 2004

Mcleanhatch said:

I think Rich Harden is going to establish himself as one of the best in the MLB this season. Last season he was the most consistent on the A's in the second half, he was pitching better than the Big 3, he's also young and comes out of games in the 7th/8th inning still throwing in the high 90's.

L Mac-a-docious · Dec 17, 2004

Mcclean...Don't address my post...game over...your dodgers suck, you're left to nit pick over the semantics of "lights out closer"...47 saves to lead the NL last year...nuff said...Foppert, J.Williams, Proved they can win, maybe not consistently, but they will be above .500 pitchers this year...Reuter had a tough reg season, then was lights out against the Cards in the clutch at the end when the Giants had to have a win...Tomko had all quality starts in the second half...Noah Lowery was untouchable, he's proven, we need to see how the league will adjust, and if he can adjust to that adjustment...Jason Schmidt, Ace...lost the cy young in the last few weeks of the season...as for the age of the rest of the team, go look at the age of the 2000 Diamondbacks (world series champions)....Hmmmm how about those Dodgers? Bye-bye Beltre, Finley, probably Green, and Bradley is due to get out of jail in a couple days...have a great season.

Mcleanhatch · Dec 17, 2004

Lil Pino said:

power pitchers throw in the mid 90's and strike out batters. mulder throws in the mid 90's and can K out betters just not as much as some of the other pitchers.

ok look harden is an OK pitcher right now. he is basically a #4 pitcher and on a great day as high as a #2. the same could be said about half the other pitchers in the league. until he can prove himself over the course of 3 or four seasons consistantly he is just another pitcher

Mcleanhatch · Dec 17, 2004

L Mac-a-docious said:

At this point they are definatly worse than last year. i will give you that.

L Mac-a-docious said:

LOL. ya and brady anderson can hit 40+ HR too.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=7074&context=pitching
Foppert W8, L9, ERA 4.98, K's 103, BB 69, IP 112, HR 16
THAT TRANSLATES INTO A HALF A SEASON WITH 200K's (GOOD), AND 138BB's (VERY BAD)
I CANT BELIEVE YOU WOULD HOLD SO HIGHLY I PITCHER WITH THAT LITTLE EXPERIENCE AND BAD STATS IN A PITCHERS PARK.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=6873&context=pitching
Williams W17, L12, ERA 3.77, K's 168, BB 93, IP 260, HR 24
NOW WILLIAMS I SORT OF AGREE WITH YOU AND SO DO THE NUMBERS THAT HE SHOULD BE A "GOOD" PITCHER THIS YEAR. AS HIS CAREER NUMBERS INDICATE I WOULD SAY HE IS A POSSIBLE #3 TYPE PITCHER RIGHT NOW ALTHOUGH ON THE GIANTS HE WOULD PROBLY BE #2 BEHIND SCHMIDT SINCE THEY DONT HAVE STRONG PITCHING, although in his sophmore season (2004) when the league got to know a bit better his ERA did go over 4.00 IN A PITCHERS PARK

is a mediocre pitcher at best. he is way overrated.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5819&context=pitching
he was 11 W and 7 L last year with a mediocre ERA 4.04 IN A PITCHERS PARK and a career ERA of 4.53 in 8 full seasons. i wouldnt bank a world series win on a pitcher like that. LOL

ya he is proven in his WHOLE 14 games that he has started with a 3.82 ERA IN A PITCHERS PARK. hey look at the bright spot he is 6-0 lifetime, oh wait Kaz Ishii was 10-0, i guess Lowry's case just got tossed out the window.

very true he is an ACE Pitcher, cant argue with that

that team had Randy Johnson AND Curt Schilling. take them away and they dont even make the playoffs. wheres the Giants equivilant of Johnson and Schilling??? and dont give me Jason Schmidt because he is great but still not in the same class as those other two guys

askG · Dec 18, 2004

josh becket an ace?

he came through in the biggest stage but other than that i havent seen anything realy special about him, i dont think he deserves a honorable mention...id pick a handful of relievers over him any day, starting w smoltz whos coming back to the starting rotation.

Mcleanhatch · Dec 18, 2004

askG said:

josh beckett got an honorable mention because when the is healthy he can hit 100MPH with a superb fastball, 90 MPH with his change up, and devastate batters with a true 12/6 curve.

in my opinion beckett has the best pure stuff among ALL PITCHERS right now. he just has major problems with blisters on his pitching hand which cause him to miss many starts.

look put it this way. i would take a healthy Josh Beckett to ANY OTHER PITCHER IN BASEBALL

askG · Dec 18, 2004

^^
youre talking on potential though, a healthy beckett is better than a lot of pitchers out there but come on, whens the last time he was healthy?hes a career .500 pitcher, one world series doesnt make up for that fact...he has to be consistent...johnson, clemens, schilling, these are established pitchers who have lived up to their potential...becket is light years behind any of these pitcchers until he has a winning season...fuck it, until he has a few winning seasons.

BAMMER · Dec 18, 2004

Mcleanhatch said:

Nobody has stuff like Kerry Wood.Beckett's breaking shit rarely works,and hardly hits over 96.He's inconsistent.Mulder is'nt considered a power pitcher either.He might throw somewhat hard,but he relies on location like a Jaime Moyer type.Harden has Ace potential without a doubt,I don't see how you can't agree.He consistantly throws 95,and throws 4 pitches for strikes.And your list needs Oliver Perez....the best player in baseball,nobody knows.

G-Dubb · Dec 19, 2004

BAMMER said:

Nobody has stuff like Kerry Wood.Beckett's breaking shit rarely works,and hardly hits over 96.He's inconsistent.Mulder is'nt considered a power pitcher either.He might throw somewhat hard,but he relies on location like a Jaime Moyer type.Harden has Ace potential without a doubt,I don't see how you can't agree.He consistantly throws 95,and throws 4 pitches for strikes.And your list needs Oliver Perez....the best player in baseball,nobody knows.

Harden will be considered the A's ace by the All-Star Break.

Zito is the #1 starter now... Scary.

Mcleanhatch · Dec 20, 2004

askG said:

exactly thats why i only gave him an honorable mention on the list i compiled

BAMMER said:

that is very open to debate, in fact i doubt many people would go as far as you have.

BAMMER said:

maybe you caught him on an off day. his breakin ball is nasty and quite comparable to Zito's some scout even say it is better

BAMMER said:

he is consistantly at or over 95 MPH.

BAMMER said:

he might not be considered a power pitcher, but a lefty that consistantly throws 94 MPH is a power pitcher.

how can you compare Mulder to Moyer????

mulder top at at what 95?? while Moyer tops out at 82???

BAMMER said:

i just dont see ACE POTENTIAL. all i see is #2 tyre pitcher at best but more than liekly a #3 type, sorry.

ya i do know he throws hard. but there are alote of guys that throw hard.

BAMMER said:

no name. he will have to string together several seasons to be compared twith the others

askG · Dec 22, 2004

when kerri wood and mark prior are healthy theyre the best 1-2 punch in the game imo, too bad dusty works both of them like dogs, and it showed last year.

Mcleanhatch · Dec 23, 2004

askG said:

my personal opinion is that i wood rather take

M. Prior and C. Zambrano.

BAMMER · Dec 24, 2004

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMMER
Nobody has stuff like Kerry Wood.

that is very open to debate, in fact i doubt many people would go as far as you have.
SEVERAL HAVE,INCLUDING 2 OF MY FRIENDS WHO HAVE PLAYED IN THE WHITE SOX,AND PADRES FARM SYSTEM,ONE A CATCHER,THE OTHER A PITCHER

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMMER
.Beckett's breaking shit rarely works.

maybe you caught him on an off day. his breakin ball is nasty and quite comparable to Zito's some scout even say it is better
HIS BREAKING BALL IS NICE,I AGREE ON THAT...ZITO'S IS NICE ASWELL

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMMER
and hardly hits over 96.He's inconsistent.

he is consistantly at or over 95 MPH.
THERE'S NO DOUBT HE THROWS HARD,BUT WOOD THROWS CONSISTANTLY HARDER.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMMER
Mulder is'nt considered a power pitcher either.

He might throw somewhat hard,but he relies on location like a Jaime Moyer type..

he might not be considered a power pitcher, but a lefty that consistantly throws 94 MPH is a power pitcher.
FALSE,THROWING HARD DOES'NT MAKE YOU A POWER PITCHER.HAVING TO "RELY" ON THROWING HARD MAKES YOU A POWER PITCHER,THIS IS WHERE THE MOYER COMPARISON COMES INTO PLAY

how can you compare Mulder to Moyer????
THEY BOTH ARE SPOT PITCHERS WITH GOOD LOCATION,AND BOTH RELY HEAVILY ON CHANGING SPEEDS

mulder top at at what 95?? while Moyer tops out at 82???
CORRECT,BUT I DISAGREE THAT MULDER HITS 95.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMMER
.Harden has Ace potential without a doubt, I don't see how you can't agree. He consistantly throws 95,and throws 4 pitches for strikes..

i just dont see ACE POTENTIAL. all i see is #2 tyre pitcher at best but more than liekly a #3 type, sorry.
IF WE WERE BOTH GM'S,YOU WOULD BE #1 ON MY SPEED DIAL

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMMER
And your list needs Oliver Perez.

no name. he will have to string together several seasons to be compared twith the others

THEN HOW CAN YOUR LIST INCLUDE BECKETT,A CAREER .500 WINNING(26-26) PERCENTAGE,AND PRIOR,WHO'S BARELY HAD 1 FULL SEASON?

BaSICCally · Dec 24, 2004

G-Dubb your signiture is tight.

Mcleanhatch · Dec 24, 2004

because prior and beckett have a history.

prior was hailed as the BEST EVER pitcher to come out of the college ranks.

while beckett was being hailed by most all scouts as the best pitcher out of the HS ranks and the next coming of roger clemens and/or nolan ryan. beckett showed what he is capable of doing when healthy in the WS. only thing is he is rarely healthy. remember the playoff game against the cubs, how many times did Beckett hit 100MPH in that game or his performance in the WS that year???

my source for this info was from baseballamerica.com scouts.

o perez had a good season but wasnt know before this season. same thing happened with cardinal pitchers bud smith and/or rick ankiel. you have got to remember them right?

askG · Dec 25, 2004

Mcleanhatch said:

zambranos gotta get his head in the game first...you see that game were he plunked edmonds his first at bat, then was screaming at him after he hit a hr, then plunked him again after giving up a homerun, this a team who was supposed to go to the big show and there carlos z blowing his top getting himself into hot water.

HUDSON TRADED

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