Three Faiths, One God

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Jun 17, 2004
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#1
Three Faiths, One God [Judaism, Christianity, Islam]

I'm not religious but I've recently become very interested in studying religion and specifically it's relevance with current conflict in the Middle East. I know it's roots are very deep (thousands and thousands of years deep) and complicated but I've uncovered a very intriguing story which I was previously ignorant to. I think theres much more to this conflict than most people know. Perhaps the answer to all this conflict and bloodshed is in the past, where it started, right? Maybe someone with more religious knowledge can contribute but here are some interesting things I've found;

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all three claim the God of Abraham and all three hold the Old Testament as a holy text and basis for religion (all three basically stem off of Judaism). So why the split into three different faiths?

The major differences are Christians believe Christ was the Messiah and Son of God, While the Jews believe he was another Prophet (like Moses, Noah and Abraham,) and Muslims believe Jesus to be the Messiah but not the physical Son of God (they also believe Muhammad to be the last Prophet whom was the founder of Islam). And all have different perceptions and interpretations of the Old Testament.


JUDAISM-

Judaism has it's first origins in [1800-1900 B.C.] when the biblical book of Genesis comes about. Throughout history the Jews were mostly a wandering people with no nation, usually in exile. The Old Testament is simply put the account of the Jews' relationship with God, story of exile and quest for a nation.

There are some striking similarities between the book of Genesis and the Sumerians' story of origin (which was carved on tablets well before Genesis was written). In Sumerian creation, earth emerges form watery chaos and the gods planted a garden where humans lived in Paradise (the word Eden is derived from the Sumerian edin). There is a Sumerian story of a man born naked in the wilderness and tempted by a harlot who educates him about sin and teaches him to wear clothes. Then as the Sumerian story of Gilgamesh goes on, a man named Utnapishtim learns that the gods are planning to destroy the earth with a flood. One of the gods takes pity and advises Utnapishtim to abandon his possessions, build a seven-tiered ship, and take with him the seeds of all the creatures. Utnapishtim did so, and after seven days the ark landed on a mountain and he sent forth a dove, humanity was saved. Sound familiar?

The parallels between Sumerian origin and the book of Genesis are very similar. Some archaeologists and historians have suggested the Jews adopted the Sumerian story of origin while in exile in Babylon, then turned into into a story of one God instead of multiple. It has also been suggested by archaeologists that the story of Eden takes place in ancient Sumeria (Mesopotamia), between the Euphrates and Tigris.

Followers of Judaism today are "People of the Book" and usually focus more on studying religious texts. For example the laws of the Torah as well as Rabbinic literature, sets of laws and texts written by Rabbis. Rabbinic Judaism started in 70 A.D.


CHRISTIANITY-

If one were to study the roots of Christianity (as we know it today) it doesn't exactly start with Christ himself. Christ himself was a Jew, and claimed lineage descending from David, (making him King of Jews). When Jesus preached he obviously never intended to start a new faith, he always preached Judaism and the laws of Moses and the Torah. Whether or not you choose to believe he was a God or Messiah is up to you but the fact remains he was very Jewish. In fact the New Testament was not put together until roughly a hundred and fifty years after his death.

The Christianity you see today is more of a pagan twist on Judaism, it's very different from the Jewish Messianic Christians who were the first followers of Christ. The idea of three deities (the Holy Trinity), Christmas and Easter Holiday, are all very European and pagan in origin. The only reason this hybrid faith survived is because of Constantine the Great, a Roman Emporer who made Christianity (with it's pagan twist) the new religion of Rome in 325 A.D. Constantine himself was a pagan High Priest. This is the time period when Europeans stepped onto the monotheistic scene.


ISLAM-

Islam began a few hundred years later in 610 A.D. when an Arab named Muhammad had a religious experience in a cave in which he supposedly was visited by an angel telling him to spread the word of God, and that "God is One". Muhammad started preaching a strict version of the old monotheistic religion. Considered by his followers to be a Prophet, he started the first Muslim community in Medina.

Interestingly enough Jesus Christ is the most quoted prophet in the Qur'an. Though the Muslim's take on Jesus is very different from the way the European Christians viewed him, they also believe he was the Messiah. They do not however believe Jesus was the physical Son of God.

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Dec 8, 2005
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#2
this is why they are all called the "people of the book". besides all the dead babies, decapitated heathens, and charred remains of heretics, its pretty funny that these people even bother fighting with each other.
 
Jun 17, 2004
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#3
The main points I find interesting are;

- All three have the same origins and same holy book (different versions of the Old Testament) and claim the God of Abraham as their God.

- Jesus Christ is the most quoted prophet in the Qu'ran.

- The parallels between Genesis and the Sumerians' (Mesopotamians') story of origin.

In the end I'm surprised how divided all three faiths are considering they only have very small differences (in religious history).
 

Hemp

Sicc OG
Sep 5, 2005
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#4
nhojsmith said:
this is why they are all called the "people of the book". besides all the dead babies, decapitated heathens, and charred remains of heretics, its pretty funny that these people even bother fighting with each other.

thats because their instincts are animalistic, making them see the others as a bigger threat to them than the rest.
This especially includes the different sects of one religion.
 
Aug 3, 2005
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#6
however, these days most of the "religious" conflicts are conflicts which serve a different purpose than that of a real religious war. the majority of the terrorist religious fanatics, like bin ladin and bush, are using religion simply as an excuse or justification for them starting battles for political and monetary gain rather than defending or crusading for their religion.
 
Aug 26, 2002
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#7
FunK-3-FivE said:
I'm not religious but I've recently become very interested in studying religion and specifically it's relevance with current conflict in the Middle East. I know it's roots are very deep (thousands and thousands of years deep) and complicated but I've uncovered a very intriguing story which I was previously ignorant to. I think theres much more to this conflict than most people know. Perhaps the answer to all this conflict and bloodshed is in the past, where it started, right? Maybe someone with more religious knowledge can contribute but here are some interesting things I've found;

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all three claim the God of Abraham and all three hold the Old Testament as a holy text and basis for religion (all three basically stem off of Judaism). So why the split into three different faiths?

The major differences are Christians believe Christ was the Messiah and Son of God, While the Jews believe he was another Prophet (like Moses, Noah and Abraham,) and Muslims believe Jesus to be the Messiah but not the physical Son of God (they also believe Muhammad to be the last Prophet whom was the founder of Islam). And all have different perceptions and interpretations of the Old Testament.


JUDAISM-

Judaism has it's first origins in [1800-1900 B.C.] when the biblical book of Genesis comes about. Throughout history the Jews were mostly a wandering people with no nation, usually in exile. The Old Testament is simply put the account of the Jews' relationship with God, story of exile and quest for a nation.

There are some striking similarities between the book of Genesis and the Sumerians' story of origin (which was carved on tablets well before Genesis was written). In Sumerian creation, earth emerges form watery chaos and the gods planted a garden where humans lived in Paradise (the word Eden is derived from the Sumerian edin). There is a Sumerian story of a man born naked in the wilderness and tempted by a harlot who educates him about sin and teaches him to wear clothes. Then as the Sumerian story of Gilgamesh goes on, a man named Utnapishtim learns that the gods are planning to destroy the earth with a flood. One of the gods takes pity and advises Utnapishtim to abandon his possessions, build a seven-tiered ship, and take with him the seeds of all the creatures. Utnapishtim did so, and after seven days the ark landed on a mountain and he sent forth a dove, humanity was saved. Sound familiar?

The parallels between Sumerian origin and the book of Genesis are very similar. Some archaeologists and historians have suggested the Jews adopted the Sumerian story of origin while in exile in Babylon, then turned into into a story of one God instead of multiple. It has also been suggested by archaeologists that the story of Eden takes place in ancient Sumeria (Mesopotamia), between the Euphrates and Tigris.

Followers of Judaism today are "People of the Book" and usually focus more on studying religious texts. For example the laws of the Torah as well as Rabbinic literature, sets of laws and texts written by Rabbis. Rabbinic Judaism started in 70 A.D.


CHRISTIANITY-

If one were to study the roots of Christianity (as we know it today) it doesn't exactly start with Christ himself. Christ himself was a Jew, and claimed lineage descending from David, (making him King of Jews). When Jesus preached he obviously never intended to start a new faith, he always preached Judaism and the laws of Moses and the Torah. Whether or not you choose to believe he was a God or Messiah is up to you but the fact remains he was very Jewish. In fact the New Testament was not put together until roughly a hundred and fifty years after his death.

The Christianity you see today is more of a pagan twist on Judaism, it's very different from the Jewish Messianic Christians who were the first followers of Christ. The idea of three deities (the Holy Trinity), Christmas and Easter Holiday, resurrection, are all very European and pagan in origin. The only reason this hybrid faith survived is because of Constantine the Great, a Roman Emporer who made Christianity (with it's pagan twist) the new religion of Rome in 325 A.D. Constantine himself was a pagan High Priest. This is the time period when Europeans stepped onto the monotheistic scene.


ISLAM-

Islam began a few hundred years later in 610 A.D. when an Arab named Muhammad had a religious experience in a cave in which he supposedly was visited by an angel telling him to spread the word of God, and that "God is One". Muhammad started preaching a strict version of the old monotheistic religion. Considered by his followers to be a Prophet, he started the first Muslim community in Medina.

Interestingly enough Jesus Christ is the most quoted prophet in the Qur'an. Though the Muslim's take on Jesus is very different from the way the European Christians viewed him, they also believe he was the Messiah. They do not however believe Jesus was the physical Son of God.

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great post.....most people do not know this.

This is one of the main reasons I have completely walked away from Christianity because it has been stolen (borrowed) from other religions and changed....

5000
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#8
Mi$ta-Murda187 said:
Yeah I agree they are all trying to serve The ONe god of the universe. Yet they fight each other. God commaned to NOT kill yet these religions kill each other. They have lost their way and the devil has blinded their minds.
What has the devil done to hindu and buddhists? Obviously they don't serve the "One God of the universe" but they are half of the population of the world....
 
Aug 26, 2002
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#9
@ Funk...

I copied and pasted your post to a email because I thought people should see what you have discovered. I am taking Exploring world religions this summer as a class and I hope we touch these parallels as well.

5000
 
Aug 26, 2002
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#11
JLMACN said:
@ Funk...

I copied and pasted your post to a email because I thought people should see what you have discovered. I am taking Exploring world religions this summer as a class and I hope we touch these parallels as well.

5000

I know what you mean though HERESY...

its all good.
 
Nov 1, 2004
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#12
[ n a v ] said:
however, these days most of the "religious" conflicts are conflicts which serve a different purpose than that of a real religious war. the majority of the terrorist religious fanatics, like bin ladin and bush, are using religion simply as an excuse or justification for them starting battles for political and monetary gain rather than defending or crusading for their religion.
bin Laden is not using religion as a justification. In fact he is a religious fanatic, he thinks he fights in the name of Islam and he is 100 % sure that he is a real muslim. Its not as simple as it seems. Religion is not a justification for him its his motivation to fight against the west.
 
Jun 17, 2004
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#14
JLMACN said:
@ Funk...

I copied and pasted your post to a email because I thought people should see what you have discovered. I am taking Exploring world religions this summer as a class and I hope we touch these parallels as well.

5000
I'm glad you liked it. It took me quite a while to write it, and it is still rather extremely short and summarized version.

I hope it interests you enough to do your own research and uncover it for yourself. I've been reading books by archaeologists and historians, people with a mostly objective view towards religion and history. And honestly I find it more interesting with an objective (rather than religious) point of view, the pieces to the puzzle fit together and it makes more sense. That's not to say the religious point of view has nothing to contribute, in fact the religious point of view has the most to contribute to this story.
 
Mar 12, 2005
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#15
JLMACN said:
great post.....most people do not know this.

This is one of the main reasons I have completely walked away from Christianity because it has been stolen (borrowed) from other religions and changed....

5000
Two Names Justinian and Constantine. Event Crusades, and JL, remember this. Men aren't perfect, it's almost nature to take what's original and incorporate things you want in that which is original in order to make you happy. His post on Christianity is a far cry from what Christianity is. He's right about one thing, most of these "Christian" holidays derived from paganism from the Europeans and Anglos that adopted Roman Catholicism(No anti-catholic sentiment here). If you think for a moment, what he described are the traditions of the catholic church, and what a few Protestant churches celebrate. That's the problem again, generalization can be a bitch.

To add unto that, the first "Christians" weren't even named that. They were Christ Followers or Messianics.
 
Jun 17, 2004
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#16
The Red Sin said:
Two Names Justinian and Constantine. Event Crusades, and JL, remember this. Men aren't perfect, it's almost nature to take what's original and incorporate things you want in that which is original in order to make you happy. His post on Christianity is a far cry from what Christianity is. He's right about one thing, most of these "Christian" holidays derived from paganism from the Europeans and Anglos that adopted Roman Catholicism(No anti-catholic sentiment here). If you think for a moment, what he described are the traditions of the catholic church, and what a few Protestant churches celebrate. That's the problem again, generalization can be a bitch.
I couldn't agree more, and yes I was generalizing my term of "Christianity" mainly because this is the Christianity most of us see today.

The Red Sin said:
To add unto that, the first "Christians" weren't even named that. They were Christ Followers or Messianics.
...This was in my post as well.
 
Aug 26, 2002
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#17
The Red Sin said:
Two Names Justinian and Constantine. Event Crusades, and JL, remember this. Men aren't perfect, it's almost nature to take what's original and incorporate things you want in that which is original in order to make you happy. His post on Christianity is a far cry from what Christianity is. He's right about one thing, most of these "Christian" holidays derived from paganism from the Europeans and Anglos that adopted Roman Catholicism(No anti-catholic sentiment here). If you think for a moment, what he described are the traditions of the catholic church, and what a few Protestant churches celebrate. That's the problem again, generalization can be a bitch.

To add unto that, the first "Christians" weren't even named that. They were Christ Followers or Messianics.

maybe now you can really understand the bible..

Im not trying to debate this really...I was just stating that I like his opinion and on top of that it is a studied hypothesis, which is more acceptable to me than someone just ramling off their beliefs.

Like I have said I cant wait to take my class this summer...and hopefully soon I will have time to really get into reading books I have put off because of school.

5000
 
Dec 8, 2005
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#18
[ n a v ] said:
however, these days most of the "religious" conflicts are conflicts which serve a different purpose than that of a real religious war. the majority of the terrorist religious fanatics, like bin ladin and bush, are using religion simply as an excuse or justification for them starting battles for political and monetary gain rather than defending or crusading for their religion.
why cant seeking political and monetary gain be used to defend and crusade for their religion? id argue its one of the most effective ways to do so in these times of global economy...
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#19
The Christianity you see today is more of a pagan twist on Judaism, it's very different from the Jewish Messianic Christians who were the first followers of Christ. The idea of three deities (the Holy Trinity), Christmas and Easter Holiday, resurrection, are all very European and pagan in origin.
In that excerpt alone there are several holes.

Funk, can you explain to me how the resurrection is european and pagan in origin when Jews practicing Judaism at that time, and before that time, believed in the resurrection? In addition, can you also explain to me why the early followers of christ believed he was resurrected? Also, can you give a brief description of what it is to be a jewish messianic christian, what there doctrine is and why they did believe in a trinity but not three dieties? After that, can you explain the difference between the trinity and tritheism?

Edit: The part I removed wasn't needed.
 
Jun 17, 2004
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#20
HERESY said:
In that excerpt alone there are several holes.
And you've only pointed out one. It's seems you just want to elaborate or clarify on what I stated. Which is more than welcome.

HERESY said:
Funk, can you explain to me how the resurrection is european and pagan in origin when Jews practicing Judaism at that time, and before that time, believed in the resurrection? In addition, can you also explain to me why the early followers of christ believed he was resurrected?
I'll look more into this later, but for now I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and take out the "resurrection" part because I want to avoid squabbling over such small details and rubbish here. When I'd rather look at the big picture, for now that is. However thank you for clearing that up.

HERESY said:
Also, can you give a brief description of what it is to be a jewish messianic christian, what there doctrine is and why they did believe in a trinity but not three dieties? After that, can you explain the difference between the trinity and tritheism?
My understanding is the Messianic Jews and early followers of Christ wanted to praise Christ as the Messiah. They're doctrine wasn't much different than the Judaism of that time.

It should be understood that the Messianic Judaism of today started in the 1800s with what we call the Hebrew-Christian movement in London and is different from the original Messianic Jews and followers of Christ. Israel doesn't consider the modern Messianic Jews to be authentic Jews.

As far as the original Messianic Jews and the Trinity, no they did not believe in the Trinity. The Trinity was born after debates over biblical data in the First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. (headed by Constantine), this event is actually very well documented. If you're trying to make a connection between the Trinity and Messianic Judaism, That's something that came about with the Hebrew-Christian movement in 1800s. It only applies to modern Messianic Judaism.

And the difference between trinity and tri-theism? I can't see much of a difference other than the trinity attempts to be some form of psuedo-monotheism.