Dubcnn: Cuz A D.U. Party Don't Stop…is this really the last album from the illustrious Digital Underground click?
Yup. Definitely.
Dubcnn: Are you and Money B working on solo projects to follow-up?
Can't speak on Mun, but I'm not. I'm in the middle of writing 2 books. One's about producing Tupac, the other's about crazy tour stories, all the juicy highlights.
Dubcnn: Obviously, Parlaiment-Funkadelic has had a tremendous influence on you and the Digital Underground sound…
George was the Tupac, the Dr. Dre, and the Talib Kweli of my generation, except all in one person. Imagine if not only did Pac live, but he was also Dr. Dre AND Talib Kweli? That's what it was like to grow up on George. Parliament was like a fusion of NWA, Wu-Tang Clan, and Digital Underground all in one group. And Funkadelic was like Living Legends or Heiro mixed with Thug Life. And George was the RZA of the whole sitch, like Dr. Dre, except in addition to being the producer; he was also the hottest writer & vocalist in the camp by many fans opinion.
George Clinton is an extraterrestrial, I don't believe he's even from this planet, I think he's from the 12th planet, a.k.a. Planet-X, or planet Nibiru. Nibiru is where many of the original Egyptians are from, who designed & built the pyramids.
Dubcnn: What was the experience like for you to personally work with George Clinton?
It was like being a Jedi and working with Yoda, or Obi Won Kenobe actually. Flavor Flav is the Yoda. Meaning, there's a lot more going on with him than meets the eye.
Dubcnn: You produced on a couple of 2Pac's best works, like 2Pacalypse Now and Me Against The World. What is the one thing about 'Pac that you miss?
His physical life.
Dubcnn: I heard a rumor that back in the day somebody broke into the studio and stole a bunch of 2Pac reels. What's the story on that?
If u mean during his Death-Row period, I have no idea. If u mean his TNT/Interscope days, it was a non-related studio robbery in which his masters were included with everyone else’s. We all (Club Nouveau, En Vogue, D.U., Gold Money, Pac, Raw Fusion, & Funky Aztecs) lost masters. The studio, Starlight Sound in Richmond California, was shut down with that notorious 2-man shotgun robbery.
Dubcnn: With all the debate between Death Row & Afeni for the rights to 2Pac's masters, what unreleased material have you been sitting on?
I have nothing. As a hired producer always working under someone else’s budget, I always turned in the finished mixes to whatever company paid for the session, including the digital underground tapes. So I ain't got shiiiioot but my balls, my ears, and my mixing ability.
And I'm still for hire. U want some shit mixed right? U need a track brought to it's highest potential? I'm your dude. I mixed So Many Tears, I Get Around, Words of Wisdom, Rebel of the Underground, and all the D.U. albums & singles. Get at me.
Jonathan Hay Note: WOW!!! What a great opportunity for your portfolio and credits to work with Shock G. I’m going to take Shock G up on this offer and have him mix the Sabrina project with my man Geenome in Germany. You heard the man... get at him
Dubcnn: What were your thoughts when Hyphy started taking over the Bay?
They finally found a word to capture it, cause the bay BEEN gettin sidewayz and actin a fool, ever since I first arrived there in the mid 80s. There was always the sideshow at Eastmont Mall, in the MacDonalds parking lot. Huge crowd, smoke everywhere, swap meet/auto-auction cars gettin bapped up, and then abandoned; huge fashion show/old school car show around lake Merrit on Sundays as far back as 86.
The D.U. song "Gutfest" was really about the Festival at the Lake. N-ggas gettin high & drunk as f-ck and then hoo'ridin all over the place just ta celebrate life. Hyphy is the new refined personal version of it, all wrapped up & concentrated down to 1 or 2 people even, wherever whenever, instead of always a crowd, and just those set times & places.
Hyphy: (hi-fee) adj. 1. A total simultaneous inner & outward burst of joy, freedom, & self-expression. 2. A personal explosion of flavor & attitude, just like "gettin krump" in LA.
One thing I was always proud of Oakland for, from a technology & bravery standpoint, was this:
As a form of self-expression, and to let off steam, NY evolved DJ'n & breakdancin, LA evolved surfin & x-games on bikes & skateboards, but in the Town? We swing the big toys...cars. More expensive, more risk, more danger, but still became a sport, and now it's worldwide. Ya gotta give it up to the bay for evolving a game that requires u to ruin an automobile! ..just like scratching ruins records. Instead of findin a spot to put the cardboard down for windmills, we find a good intersection ta whip a few loud & smokey donuts! Leave a few black circles on the pavement, ya smell me? That's not givin a fuuuuuck! Ha ha that’s breakdancin wit an automobile.
One could argue that gangbangin is "not givin a f-ck" the most, but that requires ruining somebody else’s life. None of the other art forms I mentioned ruin anything but machinery & inanimate objects. We swing them cars to feel good, to flex power, courage, & skill, but also to give a good show for the onlookers. It's all love. LA's low-rider’s is like the high-fashion stunna/flossmode variation on it.
And now we even ghostridin the whips from outside the car-door! Watch this fool here run himself over [see YouTube video]
Dubcnn: Digital Underground was able to gain mainstream attention at a time when West Coast music wasn't getting much recognition. What do you attribute to D.U.'s success at that time?
Luck. Timing. And probably the fact that we had a few members from the south & the east, so we didn't sound totally west coast at a time when everything accepted already was east coast. Even NWA used to use an east coast production model until Dre later found a sound that was truly his own.
Dubcnn: We've seen Eminem & D12 with their multiple personalities and The Roots doing their thing with the live instrumentation. Do you feel that you get the respect you deserve for what you have contributed to Hip-Hop, as far as musically and creatively?
Maybe not in the media or in the "hip-hop magazines", but we definitely get it out in the world and from the other artists. That's good enough for me. The Source & VH1, and Vibe, they'll catch up later hopefully. One thing about many of those magazines, a lot of them are run by sisters. They don't like D.U.'s open door policy to women of all races, looks & sizes. We're not the only ones indulging, we just don't hide it like some acts do, instead we promote unity amongst the races & nationalities. So we pay for it sometimes. If I walk on stage with 1 sister, 1 blonde, 1 asian mommy, and one senorita; all the sistas notice is the "white girl". But it's all good. It's all the same song ta me.
Dubcnn: You have worked with some of biggest names in music; is there anybody left out there that you would like to work with that you haven't already?
Yeah, everybody out there. I like Snoop, Lauren Hill, RZA, Kanye, Lupe Fiasco, Rage Against the Machine, Keyshia Cole, Diddy, Macy Gray, Madonna, everybody. And all the unknown local artists around the world as well. There's a lot of interesting stuff out there, doesn't gotta be huge.
Here's the newest dudes I'm feelin, Panacea, from DC..
Dubcnn: What does the West Coast need to do to get back on top?
Man, we're all on this little rock together, flyin around the sun. Especially wit the internet now, the whole world's becoming one big city. People are connecting with other people around the world who share the same interests. Trippin on "coasts" & "turf" is like some caveman shit these dayz.
Dubcnn: Where do you see the hip-hop culture going in the next 5 years?
Into 2013.
Ha ha ha, naw, just playin. More space in the music, more variety in the topics & deliveries. More acceptances of individuals who don't fit the traditional "hip hop" street-cred image. Everything that's existed will still exist (just like jazz or rock so far) but more new variations will be accepted & respected. Hip-hop goes classical, hip-hop goes country, hip-hop goes acid house/D&B, coming soon!
Dubcnn: You co-produced "Tellin Time," the bonus track on the single "We´re All In The Same Gang" with Dr. Dre. Can you tell us about working with Dre?
Dre don't talk or joke much in the studio, he just gets it done, while the rest of us are partyin & goofin off. I did the piano on that. I also did the humpty-bass part on the A side.
Dubcnn: Do you have any memories from working with the West Coast all-stars on "We're All In The Same Gang" that you'd like to share?
Did too much ecstasy in the 90s, I don't remember nuthin. BUT, fortunately I can pop a pill and the memories come right back. I'm gonna pop a pill somewhere during this book I'm writing, so stay tuned for all the 90s highlights in my exclusive book, tentatively titled.. "All Around the World".
Dubcnn: Let's go back to the basement...I remember as a kid going to your concert in Louisville, KY and Digital Underground was on a monumental tour with Public Enemy, Heavy D & The Boys, Chill Rob G, Kid & Play, Queen Latifah, etc. I think Tupac was part of your stage show then, too. That show impacted my life. What is your all-time favorite Digital Underground show to date and why?
My favorite D.U. show from that era was the time we had to jump straight into the crowd from center stage and escape thru the audience to evade the police. They were trying to arrest us for "lewd acts" on stage and "foul language" or whatever, somewhere down in the Bible belt, but we got away thru the crowd! Well, we all did except for Tupac. Ha ha, Pac ran up high into the bleachers but unfortunately, the big spotlight that shines from the back of the arena, thought it was part of the show and followed him all the way up to the top row. So it kept him on blast, and the cops went straight to him. We had to bail him out that morning.
The next day the paper said "Humpty arrested" even though I had got away. See, the paparazzi, they always go for the biggest name in any entourage whenever something happens; so being that it was 1990, they didn't know who Pac was yet, and they said Humpty instead. Just like that Marin County incident, when the paper wrote "Tupac Questioned in Shooting" when they knew damn well Pac wasn't the shooter that day. But without Pac, they didn't have a story.
Dubcnn: Will Digital Underground be touring to promote the new album?
Unfortunately not, we disbanded in March of this year. No beef, no problems or nothing, just a pre-planned break point. We all agreed in October of last year to finally move on in 2008 after our last show. 08 marks our 20-year anniversary, so it's not a retirement, it's a graduation.
A victory progression to our next challenges in life.
Dubcnn: How did your relationship emerge with Jake Records?
We met Jake CEO Scott Thomas thru "The Noses". They're a natural self-manifested official "D.U. Hype Squad", a 6-man Humpty-nose wearing crew that jumps thru the audience at shows, and keeps the D-Flow chat boards alive at ShockG.com. The Noses introduced Scott & I online last year and it was love at first "write".
Dubcnn: Before Jake Records, did you ever feel creatively misunderstood for your work?
All the time Tip. Even now with all the love from Jake, and Rhino, and Entertainment Artists Nashville (our booking agents), and all the internet press, I still occasionally feel like some isolated mad scientist, but that's just part of being an artist I hope. I know I'm weird, and the older I get, the weirder I get. But I'm in my 40s now, a vegetarian yogist partyaholic with multiple personalities. So I can't expect to fit in too much.
(laughing)
Dubcnn: With such a long career filled with music of integrity, what is the one thing you are still out to accomplish?
Humility. I talk too much in my opinion. Sometimes I wish I could just chill. I hate that I have so much to say sometimes. I always ask myself.. why do I care so much? Who gives a fuck, just shut the f-ck up!! Ha Ha
Dubcnn: Your song "No Nose Job" off the classic Sons of the P album is so relevant today. What do you feel about all these makeovers, cosmetic surgeries and the overall American obsession with image?
Young ladies, please think twice about those breast jobs, I know so many women who wish they could take it back. But u can't. Their just like tattoos, u can grow into a different mindset, and wish u had waited. My upper front four teeth are porcelain veneers so I can't talk. My real front teeth were smaller, more like Redmans or Eddie Murphy’s. But here I was in the industry, facing video time, and needed straight teeth immediately. I didn't have 2-years for braces, it was D.U. time, let's go!!
I've changed my opinion since "No Nose Job". There's nothing morally wrong about any of it, it's all opinion & taste. There's no difference in cosmetic surgery and say eye makeup, hair-color, or jewellery, it's all just fashion. Your body's just your hardware, but your soul & personality is your memory & operational software. Who cares what size or color the physical computer is, as long as u agree with the programming.
By the way, I just had the letter "G" in diamonds attached to my liver. It's not for anybody else to see except the coroner, so at the autopsy he can say.. "Yo, this cat was a fly muthafucka! Look at his liver."
(laughing hysterically)
Dubcnn: Take us back behind the creation of the Body Hat Syndrome -- what is the main artistic statement you wanted to make with this brilliant and conceptual album?
It's not just AIDS we gotta worry about, it's also FADES, Falsely Acquired Diluted Education Syndrome. Meaning, most of what u hear on TV and in the news, and in the school textbooks, it's all a jaded half-true maze of deception, intended to keep us all obedient consumers, and to therefore maintain the current balance of power & wealth. Most people know to wear a condom to protect their groin, but few rock their "Body Hats" to protect the rest of you. What about mental condoms for our ears & eyes, 'cuz people are trying to screw us daily!
Dubcnn: I know that you have spoken before about your personal drug use, you dabbled with drugs for more of a creative mind-opening experience for personal and musical elevation -- my question is, do you still experiment?
Yes, but the experiments have slowed down considerably due to lack of new resource material. Basically, I'm running out of new stuff to try! I'm not interested in sitting in one place and abusing the same thing over & over, I'm trying to visit new places of thought, feeling & experience. By the way, it's not what u use that matters most, it's what u abuse. The right amount of aspirin will relieve a headache, the wrong amount will kill u. Same concept with hard drugs. And if u need it regularly, you're just a typical addict, weather it be tobacco, sugar, caffeine, animal fat, weed, or cocaine. Anyone interested in this subject, please read my essay entitled: "MEAT & CRACK vs. HEROIN & METH; Who's the Biggest Killer?" on my MySpace blog section.
Dubcnn: As a graphic illustrator and artist, what is your favorite drawing you have created? Let's go deeper, if you could leave behind only one of your non-musical works of art, what piece would you choose to represent your legacy?
The 12-page comic booklet that came inside the Body Hat CD packaging. Not the poster pullout, there was an additional booklet that came with it. That was my most detailed & time-consuming piece. And the likenesses were dead on it. I drew Pac, Saafir, myself, Money-B, everybody in the click is in there, even Atron Gregory. He was my first manager, Pacs too. The originals were a beast, each page was a huge poster. I never saw the originals again after Tommy Boy had them printed & shrunk down into a booklet.
If not that, then the Same Song story boards. They look just like the video, almost exactly, even though they were made first.
Dubcnn: In the field of journalism, whom do you look up to as a writer?
I like Nelson George's articles and his book "Death of Rhythm & Blues". Ricky Vincent too, he wrote History of Funk. I've been moved by the work of many more writers besides them, but who remembers the author’s names of every good article, ya know?
I really enjoyed the Bob Zmuda book about the life of Andy Kaufman the comedian. That's how I hope my Tupac book turns out, exciting & interesting like that. The best books to me are when u forget you're even reading, until you look up & realize 60 pages just blew by.
Dubcnn: Any last words for our readers?
Yes..Always protect your dreams; eventually they will protect you. Peace, luv, & Humptiness still!!
shock-geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!
Shock G: *singing* Step up, step step, step up, step up!
Dubcnn: Drug use: we touched on that subject a little in our last interview and the responsible factors that go along with experimenting. Anyway, what would you say to someone who is seriously struggling with substance abuse?
"Call me when you're ready to do something else" is what'd I say before I got completely out of that persons way. Cause there's really nothing u can say to a person if they themselves haven't had enough yet. It's like trying to convince the average person to become a vegetarian just because there's statistics that link animal products to a dozen or so life-threatening diseases. If they themselves aren't in search of an alternative diet, it's like preaching to a brick wall. Though you will find that statistically 100-times as many people die from diet-related heart failure than drug overdoses, most people still aren't afraid of consuming a steady diet rich in animal fat. Similarly, alcohol related fights, murders, & auto accidents far outnumber the violence & death that stems from illegal street drugs, but because it's so entwined in the American lifestyle, we don't consider our day-to-day alcohol consumption a drug problem, and therefore don't fear the circumstances.
In my case, so many of my heroes have dabbled in uppers & downers, and multidimensional trips like shrooms & acid, that I just have never been afraid of all that stuff, and therefore couldn't be talked out of it by anyone. I walked away from cocaine, ecstasy, speed, and eating meat, all the same way and for the same reason: when it stopped making me feel good. Prior to that, no person in my family or at any program could've got me to "say no" to the recreational drugs of my choice, and no super-health & fitness guru could've talked me into becoming vegetarian. But funny thing is, I'm now a 100% vegetarian who doesn't do those particular hard drugs I just named, and it feels great.
When u look around yourself and your world isn't really what u want it to be, and you don't feel how you'd like 2 feel, then, and only then, will you turn to something else. But until that time, ya just gotta let a person do what the heck they wanna do, cause it's really nobody else’s business, and especially not the governments business telling any individual which substances we should be allowed to put in our own bodies. It's my body. Kids ain't stupid. I recognized the hypocritical nature of society as a kid when I saw a "just say no/ this is your brain on drugs" commercial immediately followed by a cheerful beer commercial or an aspirin commercial. The message was clear "it's unhealthy unless WE sell it to you."
Dubcnn: In the nineties, marijuana was the drug of choice among lyrical content. Nowadays, more and more emcees are openly talking about cocaine use in their lyrics. What do you feel about artists who advocate cocaine in their songs - Ya know, the rap on blow…
Shock G: We have many liquor anthems, and a few weed anthems, bout time cocaine gets an anthem. And I mean one that celebrates it, the positive aspects of it. If it's okay to talk about guns, murder, & sex, why can't we talk about cocaine, because it's "dangerous"? To those that say there aren't any positive aspects, then you've obviously never felt coke before. But here's the thing; it's like going to Disney World and then never wanting to leave, never getting off the rollercoaster and returning home, back to reality. As long as you recognize that it isn't reality, and that you can't live there, then you're okay. Enjoy the ride baybay; just don't get stuck in the park.
Dubcnn: Everybody thinks we are watching Amy Winehouse self-destruct with her drug demons right in front of the public eye. What do you think about her?
If self-destruction is in your path, then it's in your path. We watched Tupac self-destruct in a different way, meanwhile Chuck-D's still alive & doing his thing. Both attacked the ideology of the American system, both launched media wars against the government, but it wasn't in Chuck-D's nature to self-destruct in the way Pac did, completely different personalities & childhood experiences. Why is George Clinton or Miles Davis able to dabble in cocaine throughout their long prolific careers while Sly Stone or Rick James went straight to the abuse point with it? Why was Angelina Jolie able to dabble in cocaine during her way up the entertainment latter, before she became a mother, while Amy Winehouse seems to be falling apart?
Perhaps it's not the cocaine itself, or the liquor, or the demanding nature of the entertainment industry, or the stress of being famous; perhaps it's a stable childhood vs an unstable one. Or a settled mind vs. an unsettled one. The very same reasons why we love Amy, and Tupac, and ODB for, for their wildness, is part of the reason they're not able to hold it together later. Incidentally, and speaking of ODB, why do we only associate the cocaine portion but not the high-blood pressure portion every time someone dies of a heart attack? There are WAYYYY more diet/cholesterol/high-blood pressure related strokes & heart attacks then there are drug-related overdoses, yet nobody sweats the cheeseburger & fried chicken references in songs.
Here's why I believe that is: Fried chicken & shrimp, cheeseburgers, liquor, pain relievers, and cigarettes are all legal; cocaine isn't. Ever run a stop sign or speed pass a person and the other "obedient" driver beeps at you, even though they're not the police? ..and even though u weren't in their way? Same deal, it's not whether something's dangerous or not, because all of the above items have health risks. No, it's because the people who obey the laws feel cheated when someone else get's away with having a good time in a way that they themselves have refrained from, and/or obeyed the law or minded their elders. "Hey, that guy's doing coke! Hey, those kids are doing ecstasy! Hey that white person's having sex with that black person!" And so, as soon as someone falls off... "SEE! You shouldn't do coke!" or "SEE! Nicole shouldn't of trusted a black guy!" "Oh yeah idiot? What about Quincy Jones, he never cut Peggy Liptons throat. Matter of fact, she did pretty good in the divorce." ha ha ha! What about Ray Charles & Miles Davis? Loooong careers in which the drugs actually helped them navigate & survive the insanity of the industry at times. Everything in moderation, nothing to excess, and hands down, a stable childhood beats all. Love your children and they'll grow up to survive anything.
Dubcnn: You are an important voice to many people all around the world… so with you standing on a soapbox, what are your personal beliefs about God, spirituality and religion?
I believe we're all little individual sprinkles of God. Like individual waves rise up, die at the shore, and then are sucked back into the ocean; we are born from light, and then in death, suck back into the greater life of the Universe. Your skin & blood cells each have an individual nature, though they are part of your greater life. When the different red & white cells fall out of harmony & attack each other, this is called cancer, which we know has the ability to kill the entire human body. Similarly, when we attack each other, our war is also a cancer, and can kill the entire Earth. The purpose of life is to seek joy, happiness, and harmony. This is the meaning of spirituality, guiding your spirit closer & closer to harmony each day.
Originally, religion set out to achieve this purpose but over the last few thousand years, organized religion has come to represent the opposite of harmony. The church has now begun to divide people more than unite us. You don't need a church or a Bible to know higher spirituality and to practice peace & harmony; you only need to live it each day. That's the biggest thing a person can do with his life to satisfy God, Mother Nature, Allah, Budda, Mother Earth, Father Sun, and the Universe; simple BE peace & harmony, all the time, as much as you can. And then not only does Heaven await you in the afterlife, but your world here on Earth becomes a Heaven as well.
Dubcnn: Listening back to your Digital Underground catalog, if you could personally select ten-songs from your collection of music that best represent your artistic expression, which ten songs would you choose?
Same Song - I came for the party, the music, the good times.
Doowutchyalike - follow your heart, be original, have no shame.
Humpty Dance - be original & true to yourself, have no shame.
Sex Packets - imagination is key. I never sold drugs, or had an orgy with a chinese girl & a young black virgin in real life, but I lived it in this song to enuff satisfaction.
Sons of the P - same deal, I haven't left this planet physically yet, but I did fly thru outer space on George's mothership.
Body Hats - don't just protect your physical body, use mental condoms as well.
Do Ya Like it Dirty? - natural hair, natural food, kinky sex, and un-landscaped land is as beautiful & attractive as clean-cut orderly life is to some of us.
Jerkit Circus - masturbation beats an abortion, or an unwanted child, or even just a bad memory of an unwanted experience with someone.
Walk Real Kool - it ain't just about being fly, it's about being righteous.
Your Sun iza Pimp - remember to acknowledge & thank your Sun, for rising each day for millions of years, and for nourishing all life on Earth.
Dubcnn: With the digital distribution of music eclipsing physical CD sales, how can we preserve that art form and the visuals of an album – like a CD booklet that is on the brink of extinction?
"It's so haaaaard 2 say goodbye" *laughs* Let's just replace it with live video imagery. Soon whole videos will be downloadable & emailable. In the early 1900s, before records, it was a live band or piano player at every party. No art images at all. During records & CDs, it rose briefly and then became extinct, just like VCRs.
Dubcnn: Many people have heard about all the music you have recorded with Tupac. A much slept-on song that you did with him is called "Wussup Wit The Love," Can you share with us the history on that song?
The video took place at a house in Berkeley California that someone lent us. The song went down at Starlight Sound in Richmond Cali. Michael Hampton of Funkadelic did the guitar parts. He's the one who did the guitar solo on the album version of Knee Deep. I remember how pissed Pac got at me for askin him to rewrite his rime. His first verse was so "hittem back/revolutionary" that I didn't think it fit the song, so he grudgingly wrote the verse as it is now. He still aimed it at the police, but I wanted us to speak more about civilian crime, and the lack of love toward each other individually. I'm glad he resisted me and stuck to his guns, it added another dimension to it.
Dubcnn: Do you remember your last conversation with Tupac?
Sure do, there's a whole story behind that. My final words with Pac happened at our final, mysterious & magical D.U. reunion/goodbye meeting; august 1996 @House of Blues on Sunset Strip in Hollywood California. On this one night, myself, Pac, and Money-B, all 3 discovered each other in the rear balcony against the wall - furthest back row seats in the house - at an LL Cool-J show that we each individually had attended on our own. Outkast had opened the show earlier. Neither of us knew that either of us were even in LA, much less at this show, so it was completely outta the clear blue. Tupac lived in Atlanta at the time, Money-B in Concord California, and myself Sacramento California. All 3 of us had snuck away from our individual entourages to get a clear undisturbed view of LLs' performance. In hindsight, it was uncanny how we one-by-one showed up way in the back in the general seating, a huge surprise, with huge smiles & hugs. The three of us chilled against the rear wall, dancing & singing along to LLs concert, just like old D.U. times. It was the first time the 3 of us chilled together in a while, and the last time I saw Tupac alive.
Our sporadic, light & easy catch-up conversation was sprinkled in between the LL highlights onstage. Years later, I began to ponder if that was God putting us together to say goodbye? Because it's such a beautiful last vision to have, rather than a shoot-out or a hospital bed; us dancing and singing along together at one of our school-days idols' concerts, just like we used to do on tour together. In 1990, it would be Pac, Mun, and myself, after our own performance, down in the front row during Public Enemy's performance, singing along to our idol Chuck-D, looking up at him & Flavor Flav, and goin dummy! And that's just how it was at our very last meeting.
When I look back on this, there must've been some magic involved; it's just too perfect of a goodbye. I didn't even realize this until years later someone asked me when & where did I see Tupac last, and that, to my amazement, is what was really there.
Dubcnn: You are one of the dopest emcees in the history of the game - stylistically there is no comparison. Who do you look up to as an emcee past and present?
Me? ha ha, yeah right! I'm the worst emcee in the business in my opinion. Snoop, RZA, Lauren Hill, Talib Kweli, Andre 3000, & Kool Keith are probably my favorites, but I like everybody. I like 50, and Diddy too, I can't lie. I always liked Mase & Fabulous too cause they make me laff. Good funny shit talkers. I like early Luniz and Geto Boys too. I still like Big Bank Hank from Rappers Delight. The last Sugarhill Gang show I was at, Master-G wasn't there and they gave me a mic and let me do his parts on stage. That was the funniest shit ever! Who from the 80s hasn't been rappin-along to that song all their life? I was in Sugarhill Gang for a day!
Dubcnn: Who is Humpty Hump and how did his creation come to life? If you could go into character, take us into the mind of Humpty Hump, one of the most fascinating personas in the history of hip-hop.
Humpty is a rapper who didn't exist but that I wanted to see & hear. So I just embodied him, or let him possess me, for long enuff to get a few songs & videos done. Then I just kick back & laff my ass off and enjoy that fool. It came from thinking.. "What if there was an emcee who looked & sounded like this..", ya know?
Dubcnn: What is your favorite piano solo or arrangement by the Piano Man?
"Hokis Pokis" on the Future Rhythm album. That's that insane abstract jazzy ish right there!
Dubcnn: What is your outlook on the final Digital Underground LP, 'Cuz A D. U Party Don't Stop?'
Honestly, I played the rear and mostly let the crew shine on this one from a lyrical perspective. However, from a musical perspective I was 100% there. For me, I'm expressed on this album as an arranger and a keyboardist more than anything else. I'm live on the Fender Rhodes electric piano through a lot of it. And I had so much fun mixing & editing together all the skits & commercials n stuff. The concept is supposed to be as if the album is a TV show, "DNN", the digital News Network.
Dubcnn: In retrospective, with you now transcending into a new level in your career, have you accomplished everything you wanted with Digital Underground?
I'm satisfied. It didn't go perfect, but it also didn't go terribly either, it was usually right in the middle, just good enuff. A fun journey & learning experience about life & people. That's where life is really, right? ..it's in the journey.
Dubcnn: Tell us about the books your writing?
I'm writing 2 or 3. I started documenting all the tour stories and musical experiences, and it's turning out to be too much for one book. So I hope to publish two, one about the actual process, a technical book to share the techniques we used in the studio on the more successful & popular records. This book is more for the other artists & musicians, and anyone interested in how it was all done. Then I also hope to publish a more Hollywood stylebook for the fans, with all the sex, drugs, & hip-hop drama. The parties, the after parties, and the after-after parties, ya know? Both will be loaded with Tupac memories as well as the other D.U. highlights. I feel obligated to share the Pac stories because there's so much interest in his portion of our story.
Dubcnn: I am currently writing a book called, 'Publicity Stunt: The Art of Noise.' What is the best publicity stunt you have ever witnessed in the industry?
The whole Humpty Hump as a real separate person thing was a fun & crazy fiasco. There were actually 4 different Humpty’s over the years. Sometimes it was me, other times it was either my true brother Kent Racker, my friend Michael Webster, or another friend; my wife’s ex-boyfriend Devin. On TV or onstage it was usually Kent when I was doing Shock G, or vice versa. That's Kent too in Nothin But Trouble, the Dan Akroyd movie. In most of the early D.U. promo 8 x 10 photos, it was Mike. On the BAM magazine cover shot it was Devin. In the Humpty Dance video, while I was Humpty, Shock G was actually played by Rod Houston, the video rep at Tommy Boy! One time on the set of the Arsenio Hall Show, Eazy-E was chillin backstage talking to Humpty, who he just KNEW was me underneath. And then I walked up and started talkin with both of them. You should of saw Eazy's face! He got real quiet and started looking back & forth at both of us all confused. Ha ha ha. Then me & Kent always knew right when to walk away, and leave em baffled.
Dubcnn: Any closing words for our readers here at Dubcnn?
As the ice continues to melt, and the world begins to really change, don't be afraid, we're all gonna make it.
Thanks mista Hay, for another opportunity to speak.
Dubcnn: It is an honor.
Yup. Definitely.
Dubcnn: Are you and Money B working on solo projects to follow-up?
Can't speak on Mun, but I'm not. I'm in the middle of writing 2 books. One's about producing Tupac, the other's about crazy tour stories, all the juicy highlights.
Dubcnn: Obviously, Parlaiment-Funkadelic has had a tremendous influence on you and the Digital Underground sound…
George was the Tupac, the Dr. Dre, and the Talib Kweli of my generation, except all in one person. Imagine if not only did Pac live, but he was also Dr. Dre AND Talib Kweli? That's what it was like to grow up on George. Parliament was like a fusion of NWA, Wu-Tang Clan, and Digital Underground all in one group. And Funkadelic was like Living Legends or Heiro mixed with Thug Life. And George was the RZA of the whole sitch, like Dr. Dre, except in addition to being the producer; he was also the hottest writer & vocalist in the camp by many fans opinion.
George Clinton is an extraterrestrial, I don't believe he's even from this planet, I think he's from the 12th planet, a.k.a. Planet-X, or planet Nibiru. Nibiru is where many of the original Egyptians are from, who designed & built the pyramids.
Dubcnn: What was the experience like for you to personally work with George Clinton?
It was like being a Jedi and working with Yoda, or Obi Won Kenobe actually. Flavor Flav is the Yoda. Meaning, there's a lot more going on with him than meets the eye.
Dubcnn: You produced on a couple of 2Pac's best works, like 2Pacalypse Now and Me Against The World. What is the one thing about 'Pac that you miss?
His physical life.
Dubcnn: I heard a rumor that back in the day somebody broke into the studio and stole a bunch of 2Pac reels. What's the story on that?
If u mean during his Death-Row period, I have no idea. If u mean his TNT/Interscope days, it was a non-related studio robbery in which his masters were included with everyone else’s. We all (Club Nouveau, En Vogue, D.U., Gold Money, Pac, Raw Fusion, & Funky Aztecs) lost masters. The studio, Starlight Sound in Richmond California, was shut down with that notorious 2-man shotgun robbery.
Dubcnn: With all the debate between Death Row & Afeni for the rights to 2Pac's masters, what unreleased material have you been sitting on?
I have nothing. As a hired producer always working under someone else’s budget, I always turned in the finished mixes to whatever company paid for the session, including the digital underground tapes. So I ain't got shiiiioot but my balls, my ears, and my mixing ability.
And I'm still for hire. U want some shit mixed right? U need a track brought to it's highest potential? I'm your dude. I mixed So Many Tears, I Get Around, Words of Wisdom, Rebel of the Underground, and all the D.U. albums & singles. Get at me.
Jonathan Hay Note: WOW!!! What a great opportunity for your portfolio and credits to work with Shock G. I’m going to take Shock G up on this offer and have him mix the Sabrina project with my man Geenome in Germany. You heard the man... get at him
Dubcnn: What were your thoughts when Hyphy started taking over the Bay?
They finally found a word to capture it, cause the bay BEEN gettin sidewayz and actin a fool, ever since I first arrived there in the mid 80s. There was always the sideshow at Eastmont Mall, in the MacDonalds parking lot. Huge crowd, smoke everywhere, swap meet/auto-auction cars gettin bapped up, and then abandoned; huge fashion show/old school car show around lake Merrit on Sundays as far back as 86.
The D.U. song "Gutfest" was really about the Festival at the Lake. N-ggas gettin high & drunk as f-ck and then hoo'ridin all over the place just ta celebrate life. Hyphy is the new refined personal version of it, all wrapped up & concentrated down to 1 or 2 people even, wherever whenever, instead of always a crowd, and just those set times & places.
Hyphy: (hi-fee) adj. 1. A total simultaneous inner & outward burst of joy, freedom, & self-expression. 2. A personal explosion of flavor & attitude, just like "gettin krump" in LA.
One thing I was always proud of Oakland for, from a technology & bravery standpoint, was this:
As a form of self-expression, and to let off steam, NY evolved DJ'n & breakdancin, LA evolved surfin & x-games on bikes & skateboards, but in the Town? We swing the big toys...cars. More expensive, more risk, more danger, but still became a sport, and now it's worldwide. Ya gotta give it up to the bay for evolving a game that requires u to ruin an automobile! ..just like scratching ruins records. Instead of findin a spot to put the cardboard down for windmills, we find a good intersection ta whip a few loud & smokey donuts! Leave a few black circles on the pavement, ya smell me? That's not givin a fuuuuuck! Ha ha that’s breakdancin wit an automobile.
One could argue that gangbangin is "not givin a f-ck" the most, but that requires ruining somebody else’s life. None of the other art forms I mentioned ruin anything but machinery & inanimate objects. We swing them cars to feel good, to flex power, courage, & skill, but also to give a good show for the onlookers. It's all love. LA's low-rider’s is like the high-fashion stunna/flossmode variation on it.
And now we even ghostridin the whips from outside the car-door! Watch this fool here run himself over [see YouTube video]
Dubcnn: Digital Underground was able to gain mainstream attention at a time when West Coast music wasn't getting much recognition. What do you attribute to D.U.'s success at that time?
Luck. Timing. And probably the fact that we had a few members from the south & the east, so we didn't sound totally west coast at a time when everything accepted already was east coast. Even NWA used to use an east coast production model until Dre later found a sound that was truly his own.
Dubcnn: We've seen Eminem & D12 with their multiple personalities and The Roots doing their thing with the live instrumentation. Do you feel that you get the respect you deserve for what you have contributed to Hip-Hop, as far as musically and creatively?
Maybe not in the media or in the "hip-hop magazines", but we definitely get it out in the world and from the other artists. That's good enough for me. The Source & VH1, and Vibe, they'll catch up later hopefully. One thing about many of those magazines, a lot of them are run by sisters. They don't like D.U.'s open door policy to women of all races, looks & sizes. We're not the only ones indulging, we just don't hide it like some acts do, instead we promote unity amongst the races & nationalities. So we pay for it sometimes. If I walk on stage with 1 sister, 1 blonde, 1 asian mommy, and one senorita; all the sistas notice is the "white girl". But it's all good. It's all the same song ta me.
Dubcnn: You have worked with some of biggest names in music; is there anybody left out there that you would like to work with that you haven't already?
Yeah, everybody out there. I like Snoop, Lauren Hill, RZA, Kanye, Lupe Fiasco, Rage Against the Machine, Keyshia Cole, Diddy, Macy Gray, Madonna, everybody. And all the unknown local artists around the world as well. There's a lot of interesting stuff out there, doesn't gotta be huge.
Here's the newest dudes I'm feelin, Panacea, from DC..
Dubcnn: What does the West Coast need to do to get back on top?
Man, we're all on this little rock together, flyin around the sun. Especially wit the internet now, the whole world's becoming one big city. People are connecting with other people around the world who share the same interests. Trippin on "coasts" & "turf" is like some caveman shit these dayz.
Dubcnn: Where do you see the hip-hop culture going in the next 5 years?
Into 2013.
Ha ha ha, naw, just playin. More space in the music, more variety in the topics & deliveries. More acceptances of individuals who don't fit the traditional "hip hop" street-cred image. Everything that's existed will still exist (just like jazz or rock so far) but more new variations will be accepted & respected. Hip-hop goes classical, hip-hop goes country, hip-hop goes acid house/D&B, coming soon!
Dubcnn: You co-produced "Tellin Time," the bonus track on the single "We´re All In The Same Gang" with Dr. Dre. Can you tell us about working with Dre?
Dre don't talk or joke much in the studio, he just gets it done, while the rest of us are partyin & goofin off. I did the piano on that. I also did the humpty-bass part on the A side.
Dubcnn: Do you have any memories from working with the West Coast all-stars on "We're All In The Same Gang" that you'd like to share?
Did too much ecstasy in the 90s, I don't remember nuthin. BUT, fortunately I can pop a pill and the memories come right back. I'm gonna pop a pill somewhere during this book I'm writing, so stay tuned for all the 90s highlights in my exclusive book, tentatively titled.. "All Around the World".
Dubcnn: Let's go back to the basement...I remember as a kid going to your concert in Louisville, KY and Digital Underground was on a monumental tour with Public Enemy, Heavy D & The Boys, Chill Rob G, Kid & Play, Queen Latifah, etc. I think Tupac was part of your stage show then, too. That show impacted my life. What is your all-time favorite Digital Underground show to date and why?
My favorite D.U. show from that era was the time we had to jump straight into the crowd from center stage and escape thru the audience to evade the police. They were trying to arrest us for "lewd acts" on stage and "foul language" or whatever, somewhere down in the Bible belt, but we got away thru the crowd! Well, we all did except for Tupac. Ha ha, Pac ran up high into the bleachers but unfortunately, the big spotlight that shines from the back of the arena, thought it was part of the show and followed him all the way up to the top row. So it kept him on blast, and the cops went straight to him. We had to bail him out that morning.
The next day the paper said "Humpty arrested" even though I had got away. See, the paparazzi, they always go for the biggest name in any entourage whenever something happens; so being that it was 1990, they didn't know who Pac was yet, and they said Humpty instead. Just like that Marin County incident, when the paper wrote "Tupac Questioned in Shooting" when they knew damn well Pac wasn't the shooter that day. But without Pac, they didn't have a story.
Dubcnn: Will Digital Underground be touring to promote the new album?
Unfortunately not, we disbanded in March of this year. No beef, no problems or nothing, just a pre-planned break point. We all agreed in October of last year to finally move on in 2008 after our last show. 08 marks our 20-year anniversary, so it's not a retirement, it's a graduation.
A victory progression to our next challenges in life.
Dubcnn: How did your relationship emerge with Jake Records?
We met Jake CEO Scott Thomas thru "The Noses". They're a natural self-manifested official "D.U. Hype Squad", a 6-man Humpty-nose wearing crew that jumps thru the audience at shows, and keeps the D-Flow chat boards alive at ShockG.com. The Noses introduced Scott & I online last year and it was love at first "write".
Dubcnn: Before Jake Records, did you ever feel creatively misunderstood for your work?
All the time Tip. Even now with all the love from Jake, and Rhino, and Entertainment Artists Nashville (our booking agents), and all the internet press, I still occasionally feel like some isolated mad scientist, but that's just part of being an artist I hope. I know I'm weird, and the older I get, the weirder I get. But I'm in my 40s now, a vegetarian yogist partyaholic with multiple personalities. So I can't expect to fit in too much.
(laughing)
Dubcnn: With such a long career filled with music of integrity, what is the one thing you are still out to accomplish?
Humility. I talk too much in my opinion. Sometimes I wish I could just chill. I hate that I have so much to say sometimes. I always ask myself.. why do I care so much? Who gives a fuck, just shut the f-ck up!! Ha Ha
Dubcnn: Your song "No Nose Job" off the classic Sons of the P album is so relevant today. What do you feel about all these makeovers, cosmetic surgeries and the overall American obsession with image?
Young ladies, please think twice about those breast jobs, I know so many women who wish they could take it back. But u can't. Their just like tattoos, u can grow into a different mindset, and wish u had waited. My upper front four teeth are porcelain veneers so I can't talk. My real front teeth were smaller, more like Redmans or Eddie Murphy’s. But here I was in the industry, facing video time, and needed straight teeth immediately. I didn't have 2-years for braces, it was D.U. time, let's go!!
I've changed my opinion since "No Nose Job". There's nothing morally wrong about any of it, it's all opinion & taste. There's no difference in cosmetic surgery and say eye makeup, hair-color, or jewellery, it's all just fashion. Your body's just your hardware, but your soul & personality is your memory & operational software. Who cares what size or color the physical computer is, as long as u agree with the programming.
By the way, I just had the letter "G" in diamonds attached to my liver. It's not for anybody else to see except the coroner, so at the autopsy he can say.. "Yo, this cat was a fly muthafucka! Look at his liver."
(laughing hysterically)
Dubcnn: Take us back behind the creation of the Body Hat Syndrome -- what is the main artistic statement you wanted to make with this brilliant and conceptual album?
It's not just AIDS we gotta worry about, it's also FADES, Falsely Acquired Diluted Education Syndrome. Meaning, most of what u hear on TV and in the news, and in the school textbooks, it's all a jaded half-true maze of deception, intended to keep us all obedient consumers, and to therefore maintain the current balance of power & wealth. Most people know to wear a condom to protect their groin, but few rock their "Body Hats" to protect the rest of you. What about mental condoms for our ears & eyes, 'cuz people are trying to screw us daily!
Dubcnn: I know that you have spoken before about your personal drug use, you dabbled with drugs for more of a creative mind-opening experience for personal and musical elevation -- my question is, do you still experiment?
Yes, but the experiments have slowed down considerably due to lack of new resource material. Basically, I'm running out of new stuff to try! I'm not interested in sitting in one place and abusing the same thing over & over, I'm trying to visit new places of thought, feeling & experience. By the way, it's not what u use that matters most, it's what u abuse. The right amount of aspirin will relieve a headache, the wrong amount will kill u. Same concept with hard drugs. And if u need it regularly, you're just a typical addict, weather it be tobacco, sugar, caffeine, animal fat, weed, or cocaine. Anyone interested in this subject, please read my essay entitled: "MEAT & CRACK vs. HEROIN & METH; Who's the Biggest Killer?" on my MySpace blog section.
Dubcnn: As a graphic illustrator and artist, what is your favorite drawing you have created? Let's go deeper, if you could leave behind only one of your non-musical works of art, what piece would you choose to represent your legacy?
The 12-page comic booklet that came inside the Body Hat CD packaging. Not the poster pullout, there was an additional booklet that came with it. That was my most detailed & time-consuming piece. And the likenesses were dead on it. I drew Pac, Saafir, myself, Money-B, everybody in the click is in there, even Atron Gregory. He was my first manager, Pacs too. The originals were a beast, each page was a huge poster. I never saw the originals again after Tommy Boy had them printed & shrunk down into a booklet.
If not that, then the Same Song story boards. They look just like the video, almost exactly, even though they were made first.
Dubcnn: In the field of journalism, whom do you look up to as a writer?
I like Nelson George's articles and his book "Death of Rhythm & Blues". Ricky Vincent too, he wrote History of Funk. I've been moved by the work of many more writers besides them, but who remembers the author’s names of every good article, ya know?
I really enjoyed the Bob Zmuda book about the life of Andy Kaufman the comedian. That's how I hope my Tupac book turns out, exciting & interesting like that. The best books to me are when u forget you're even reading, until you look up & realize 60 pages just blew by.
Dubcnn: Any last words for our readers?
Yes..Always protect your dreams; eventually they will protect you. Peace, luv, & Humptiness still!!
shock-geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!
Shock G: *singing* Step up, step step, step up, step up!
Dubcnn: Drug use: we touched on that subject a little in our last interview and the responsible factors that go along with experimenting. Anyway, what would you say to someone who is seriously struggling with substance abuse?
"Call me when you're ready to do something else" is what'd I say before I got completely out of that persons way. Cause there's really nothing u can say to a person if they themselves haven't had enough yet. It's like trying to convince the average person to become a vegetarian just because there's statistics that link animal products to a dozen or so life-threatening diseases. If they themselves aren't in search of an alternative diet, it's like preaching to a brick wall. Though you will find that statistically 100-times as many people die from diet-related heart failure than drug overdoses, most people still aren't afraid of consuming a steady diet rich in animal fat. Similarly, alcohol related fights, murders, & auto accidents far outnumber the violence & death that stems from illegal street drugs, but because it's so entwined in the American lifestyle, we don't consider our day-to-day alcohol consumption a drug problem, and therefore don't fear the circumstances.
In my case, so many of my heroes have dabbled in uppers & downers, and multidimensional trips like shrooms & acid, that I just have never been afraid of all that stuff, and therefore couldn't be talked out of it by anyone. I walked away from cocaine, ecstasy, speed, and eating meat, all the same way and for the same reason: when it stopped making me feel good. Prior to that, no person in my family or at any program could've got me to "say no" to the recreational drugs of my choice, and no super-health & fitness guru could've talked me into becoming vegetarian. But funny thing is, I'm now a 100% vegetarian who doesn't do those particular hard drugs I just named, and it feels great.
When u look around yourself and your world isn't really what u want it to be, and you don't feel how you'd like 2 feel, then, and only then, will you turn to something else. But until that time, ya just gotta let a person do what the heck they wanna do, cause it's really nobody else’s business, and especially not the governments business telling any individual which substances we should be allowed to put in our own bodies. It's my body. Kids ain't stupid. I recognized the hypocritical nature of society as a kid when I saw a "just say no/ this is your brain on drugs" commercial immediately followed by a cheerful beer commercial or an aspirin commercial. The message was clear "it's unhealthy unless WE sell it to you."
Dubcnn: In the nineties, marijuana was the drug of choice among lyrical content. Nowadays, more and more emcees are openly talking about cocaine use in their lyrics. What do you feel about artists who advocate cocaine in their songs - Ya know, the rap on blow…
Shock G: We have many liquor anthems, and a few weed anthems, bout time cocaine gets an anthem. And I mean one that celebrates it, the positive aspects of it. If it's okay to talk about guns, murder, & sex, why can't we talk about cocaine, because it's "dangerous"? To those that say there aren't any positive aspects, then you've obviously never felt coke before. But here's the thing; it's like going to Disney World and then never wanting to leave, never getting off the rollercoaster and returning home, back to reality. As long as you recognize that it isn't reality, and that you can't live there, then you're okay. Enjoy the ride baybay; just don't get stuck in the park.
Dubcnn: Everybody thinks we are watching Amy Winehouse self-destruct with her drug demons right in front of the public eye. What do you think about her?
If self-destruction is in your path, then it's in your path. We watched Tupac self-destruct in a different way, meanwhile Chuck-D's still alive & doing his thing. Both attacked the ideology of the American system, both launched media wars against the government, but it wasn't in Chuck-D's nature to self-destruct in the way Pac did, completely different personalities & childhood experiences. Why is George Clinton or Miles Davis able to dabble in cocaine throughout their long prolific careers while Sly Stone or Rick James went straight to the abuse point with it? Why was Angelina Jolie able to dabble in cocaine during her way up the entertainment latter, before she became a mother, while Amy Winehouse seems to be falling apart?
Perhaps it's not the cocaine itself, or the liquor, or the demanding nature of the entertainment industry, or the stress of being famous; perhaps it's a stable childhood vs an unstable one. Or a settled mind vs. an unsettled one. The very same reasons why we love Amy, and Tupac, and ODB for, for their wildness, is part of the reason they're not able to hold it together later. Incidentally, and speaking of ODB, why do we only associate the cocaine portion but not the high-blood pressure portion every time someone dies of a heart attack? There are WAYYYY more diet/cholesterol/high-blood pressure related strokes & heart attacks then there are drug-related overdoses, yet nobody sweats the cheeseburger & fried chicken references in songs.
Here's why I believe that is: Fried chicken & shrimp, cheeseburgers, liquor, pain relievers, and cigarettes are all legal; cocaine isn't. Ever run a stop sign or speed pass a person and the other "obedient" driver beeps at you, even though they're not the police? ..and even though u weren't in their way? Same deal, it's not whether something's dangerous or not, because all of the above items have health risks. No, it's because the people who obey the laws feel cheated when someone else get's away with having a good time in a way that they themselves have refrained from, and/or obeyed the law or minded their elders. "Hey, that guy's doing coke! Hey, those kids are doing ecstasy! Hey that white person's having sex with that black person!" And so, as soon as someone falls off... "SEE! You shouldn't do coke!" or "SEE! Nicole shouldn't of trusted a black guy!" "Oh yeah idiot? What about Quincy Jones, he never cut Peggy Liptons throat. Matter of fact, she did pretty good in the divorce." ha ha ha! What about Ray Charles & Miles Davis? Loooong careers in which the drugs actually helped them navigate & survive the insanity of the industry at times. Everything in moderation, nothing to excess, and hands down, a stable childhood beats all. Love your children and they'll grow up to survive anything.
Dubcnn: You are an important voice to many people all around the world… so with you standing on a soapbox, what are your personal beliefs about God, spirituality and religion?
I believe we're all little individual sprinkles of God. Like individual waves rise up, die at the shore, and then are sucked back into the ocean; we are born from light, and then in death, suck back into the greater life of the Universe. Your skin & blood cells each have an individual nature, though they are part of your greater life. When the different red & white cells fall out of harmony & attack each other, this is called cancer, which we know has the ability to kill the entire human body. Similarly, when we attack each other, our war is also a cancer, and can kill the entire Earth. The purpose of life is to seek joy, happiness, and harmony. This is the meaning of spirituality, guiding your spirit closer & closer to harmony each day.
Originally, religion set out to achieve this purpose but over the last few thousand years, organized religion has come to represent the opposite of harmony. The church has now begun to divide people more than unite us. You don't need a church or a Bible to know higher spirituality and to practice peace & harmony; you only need to live it each day. That's the biggest thing a person can do with his life to satisfy God, Mother Nature, Allah, Budda, Mother Earth, Father Sun, and the Universe; simple BE peace & harmony, all the time, as much as you can. And then not only does Heaven await you in the afterlife, but your world here on Earth becomes a Heaven as well.
Dubcnn: Listening back to your Digital Underground catalog, if you could personally select ten-songs from your collection of music that best represent your artistic expression, which ten songs would you choose?
Same Song - I came for the party, the music, the good times.
Doowutchyalike - follow your heart, be original, have no shame.
Humpty Dance - be original & true to yourself, have no shame.
Sex Packets - imagination is key. I never sold drugs, or had an orgy with a chinese girl & a young black virgin in real life, but I lived it in this song to enuff satisfaction.
Sons of the P - same deal, I haven't left this planet physically yet, but I did fly thru outer space on George's mothership.
Body Hats - don't just protect your physical body, use mental condoms as well.
Do Ya Like it Dirty? - natural hair, natural food, kinky sex, and un-landscaped land is as beautiful & attractive as clean-cut orderly life is to some of us.
Jerkit Circus - masturbation beats an abortion, or an unwanted child, or even just a bad memory of an unwanted experience with someone.
Walk Real Kool - it ain't just about being fly, it's about being righteous.
Your Sun iza Pimp - remember to acknowledge & thank your Sun, for rising each day for millions of years, and for nourishing all life on Earth.
Dubcnn: With the digital distribution of music eclipsing physical CD sales, how can we preserve that art form and the visuals of an album – like a CD booklet that is on the brink of extinction?
"It's so haaaaard 2 say goodbye" *laughs* Let's just replace it with live video imagery. Soon whole videos will be downloadable & emailable. In the early 1900s, before records, it was a live band or piano player at every party. No art images at all. During records & CDs, it rose briefly and then became extinct, just like VCRs.
Dubcnn: Many people have heard about all the music you have recorded with Tupac. A much slept-on song that you did with him is called "Wussup Wit The Love," Can you share with us the history on that song?
The video took place at a house in Berkeley California that someone lent us. The song went down at Starlight Sound in Richmond Cali. Michael Hampton of Funkadelic did the guitar parts. He's the one who did the guitar solo on the album version of Knee Deep. I remember how pissed Pac got at me for askin him to rewrite his rime. His first verse was so "hittem back/revolutionary" that I didn't think it fit the song, so he grudgingly wrote the verse as it is now. He still aimed it at the police, but I wanted us to speak more about civilian crime, and the lack of love toward each other individually. I'm glad he resisted me and stuck to his guns, it added another dimension to it.
Dubcnn: Do you remember your last conversation with Tupac?
Sure do, there's a whole story behind that. My final words with Pac happened at our final, mysterious & magical D.U. reunion/goodbye meeting; august 1996 @House of Blues on Sunset Strip in Hollywood California. On this one night, myself, Pac, and Money-B, all 3 discovered each other in the rear balcony against the wall - furthest back row seats in the house - at an LL Cool-J show that we each individually had attended on our own. Outkast had opened the show earlier. Neither of us knew that either of us were even in LA, much less at this show, so it was completely outta the clear blue. Tupac lived in Atlanta at the time, Money-B in Concord California, and myself Sacramento California. All 3 of us had snuck away from our individual entourages to get a clear undisturbed view of LLs' performance. In hindsight, it was uncanny how we one-by-one showed up way in the back in the general seating, a huge surprise, with huge smiles & hugs. The three of us chilled against the rear wall, dancing & singing along to LLs concert, just like old D.U. times. It was the first time the 3 of us chilled together in a while, and the last time I saw Tupac alive.
Our sporadic, light & easy catch-up conversation was sprinkled in between the LL highlights onstage. Years later, I began to ponder if that was God putting us together to say goodbye? Because it's such a beautiful last vision to have, rather than a shoot-out or a hospital bed; us dancing and singing along together at one of our school-days idols' concerts, just like we used to do on tour together. In 1990, it would be Pac, Mun, and myself, after our own performance, down in the front row during Public Enemy's performance, singing along to our idol Chuck-D, looking up at him & Flavor Flav, and goin dummy! And that's just how it was at our very last meeting.
When I look back on this, there must've been some magic involved; it's just too perfect of a goodbye. I didn't even realize this until years later someone asked me when & where did I see Tupac last, and that, to my amazement, is what was really there.
Dubcnn: You are one of the dopest emcees in the history of the game - stylistically there is no comparison. Who do you look up to as an emcee past and present?
Me? ha ha, yeah right! I'm the worst emcee in the business in my opinion. Snoop, RZA, Lauren Hill, Talib Kweli, Andre 3000, & Kool Keith are probably my favorites, but I like everybody. I like 50, and Diddy too, I can't lie. I always liked Mase & Fabulous too cause they make me laff. Good funny shit talkers. I like early Luniz and Geto Boys too. I still like Big Bank Hank from Rappers Delight. The last Sugarhill Gang show I was at, Master-G wasn't there and they gave me a mic and let me do his parts on stage. That was the funniest shit ever! Who from the 80s hasn't been rappin-along to that song all their life? I was in Sugarhill Gang for a day!
Dubcnn: Who is Humpty Hump and how did his creation come to life? If you could go into character, take us into the mind of Humpty Hump, one of the most fascinating personas in the history of hip-hop.
Humpty is a rapper who didn't exist but that I wanted to see & hear. So I just embodied him, or let him possess me, for long enuff to get a few songs & videos done. Then I just kick back & laff my ass off and enjoy that fool. It came from thinking.. "What if there was an emcee who looked & sounded like this..", ya know?
Dubcnn: What is your favorite piano solo or arrangement by the Piano Man?
"Hokis Pokis" on the Future Rhythm album. That's that insane abstract jazzy ish right there!
Dubcnn: What is your outlook on the final Digital Underground LP, 'Cuz A D. U Party Don't Stop?'
Honestly, I played the rear and mostly let the crew shine on this one from a lyrical perspective. However, from a musical perspective I was 100% there. For me, I'm expressed on this album as an arranger and a keyboardist more than anything else. I'm live on the Fender Rhodes electric piano through a lot of it. And I had so much fun mixing & editing together all the skits & commercials n stuff. The concept is supposed to be as if the album is a TV show, "DNN", the digital News Network.
Dubcnn: In retrospective, with you now transcending into a new level in your career, have you accomplished everything you wanted with Digital Underground?
I'm satisfied. It didn't go perfect, but it also didn't go terribly either, it was usually right in the middle, just good enuff. A fun journey & learning experience about life & people. That's where life is really, right? ..it's in the journey.
Dubcnn: Tell us about the books your writing?
I'm writing 2 or 3. I started documenting all the tour stories and musical experiences, and it's turning out to be too much for one book. So I hope to publish two, one about the actual process, a technical book to share the techniques we used in the studio on the more successful & popular records. This book is more for the other artists & musicians, and anyone interested in how it was all done. Then I also hope to publish a more Hollywood stylebook for the fans, with all the sex, drugs, & hip-hop drama. The parties, the after parties, and the after-after parties, ya know? Both will be loaded with Tupac memories as well as the other D.U. highlights. I feel obligated to share the Pac stories because there's so much interest in his portion of our story.
Dubcnn: I am currently writing a book called, 'Publicity Stunt: The Art of Noise.' What is the best publicity stunt you have ever witnessed in the industry?
The whole Humpty Hump as a real separate person thing was a fun & crazy fiasco. There were actually 4 different Humpty’s over the years. Sometimes it was me, other times it was either my true brother Kent Racker, my friend Michael Webster, or another friend; my wife’s ex-boyfriend Devin. On TV or onstage it was usually Kent when I was doing Shock G, or vice versa. That's Kent too in Nothin But Trouble, the Dan Akroyd movie. In most of the early D.U. promo 8 x 10 photos, it was Mike. On the BAM magazine cover shot it was Devin. In the Humpty Dance video, while I was Humpty, Shock G was actually played by Rod Houston, the video rep at Tommy Boy! One time on the set of the Arsenio Hall Show, Eazy-E was chillin backstage talking to Humpty, who he just KNEW was me underneath. And then I walked up and started talkin with both of them. You should of saw Eazy's face! He got real quiet and started looking back & forth at both of us all confused. Ha ha ha. Then me & Kent always knew right when to walk away, and leave em baffled.
Dubcnn: Any closing words for our readers here at Dubcnn?
As the ice continues to melt, and the world begins to really change, don't be afraid, we're all gonna make it.
Thanks mista Hay, for another opportunity to speak.
Dubcnn: It is an honor.
