Question about Christianity

[ParkBoyz]

Ok, been wondering about this for a minute now. Adam and Eve eating the apple from the forbidden tree is what brought sin into this world correct? The penalty for Sin was death.. So this is why it was necessary for The Chris to come and die for sin, so that we all may be able to live forever(after death of course).. Well, according to the bible and Christian belief, the only way to receive this gift Jesus has given the world, is to simply accept that he is our personal lord and savior, and that he died for our sins. Well, this is where the confusing part comes in..


What happens to all of those billions of people that were here before Christ? What is their salvation? What special things did they have to do in order to achieve ever lasting life, since there was no Savior for them to accept and believe in, only Elohim. Doesn't make sense to say Jesus died for them also since they had no idea about it, and there was nothing for them to accept and believe in besides Elohim. And if they were able to gain entry into heaven through worship, following God's law, and believing in God, then what use did Jesus have? Why flip the script and give us different guidelines than the ones before Christ? Did Moses accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior? What about Adam? I'm trying to learn and this is an honest question. Can some one please enlighten me?

 

[Blazelazy]

I dont think the penalty for Sin was death,I think they was just cast out the garden.(storywise)

 

[2-0-NINE]

Wait Parkboys, I'm writing my response now

 

[JLMACN]

**awaits the prophetic words**

5000

 

[ParkBoyz]

I dont think the penalty for Sin was death,I think they was just cast out the garden.(storywise)

Naw bruh, it was death..

Waiting on your reply STOCKTON, thanx for the quick response.

 

[2-0-NINE]

DAMN, I HAD A LONG ASS RESPONSE, ONLY TO GET SIGNED OFF. I'LL DO IT AGAIN, SHEESH. WAIT

 

[2-0-NINE]

Ok, been wondering about this for a minute now. Adam and Eve eating the apple from the forbidden tree is what brought sin into this world correct? The penalty for Sin was death.. So this is why it was necessary for The Chris to come and die for sin, so that we all may be able to live forever(after death of course).. Well, according to the bible and Christian belief, the only way to receive this gift Jesus has given the world, is to simply accept that he is our personal lord and savior, and that he died for our sins. Well, this is where the confusing part comes in..


What happens to all of those billions of people that were here before Christ? What is their salvation? What special things did they have to do in order to achieve ever lasting life, since there was no Savior for them to accept and believe in, only Elohim. Doesn't make sense to say Jesus died for them also since they had no idea about it, and there was nothing for them to accept and believe in besides Elohim. And if they were able to gain entry into heaven through worship, following God's law, and believing in God, then what use did Jesus have? Why flip the script and give us different guidelines than the ones before Christ? Did Moses accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior? What about Adam? I'm trying to learn and this is an honest question. Can some one please enlighten me?

Christ came into this world to be the Final Sacrificial Lamb, for the Remissions of Sins, to give salvation to all those who believe in Him, Deutornomy 18:18, John 3:16.

Accepting him and who he is, is one part, there's more as you grow in faith with him.

To those Billions of People that weren't saved before his time read 1st Peter 3:18-20

Those Special things, were to live righteously, Serve God, and Make Sacrifices for him. Such as giving up your best Calf, or 1/10 of your income, keeping the 10 Commandments, and living in Accordance to the Laws Which God gave Moses.

You think Moses, Abraham, Noah, and those who were Proclaimed as "Just" In God's Eyes did not know they had to worship and accept God?

The Use of Jesus, was to provide the Final Sacrifice of Sin, so that the Law, which was penalty of death because of Sin, was to End with Jesus. He also extended his hand to the Gentiles because for the Most Part, the Tanakh or Torah pertained mostly to the Hebrews and Jews. He gave salvation and the New Covenant to the Gentiles as well to make the Jews Jealous, after All he divorced Israel in Jeremiah 3:8.

God did not flip the script look in my last statement. If you meaning adding the Golden rule to Love one another, to forgive those who ask for forgiveness, to be good to those that are evil towards you, to give alms to the poor and lame, flipping the script, it's not. It's the exact same thing he told those in the Old Testament.

Moses did as a matter of fact accept Jesus as saviour. Remember Deuteronomy 18:18. Jesus was with Moses on Mt. Sinai, he was also referred to in the Old Testament as "THE angel of the Lord". The angel that wrestled with Jacob, Dislocated his hip, and names him Israel. He was in the Furnace in the Book of Daniel when Nebuchadnezzar through Mishach, Shadrach, and Abednego, they said There was a fourth person as if It were the SON OF GOD. All Prophets or preordained men and women in the Old Testament already accepted Jesus, because Jesus was the Very Person guiding them with the Holy Spirit.

If I confused you more, please let me know. God Bless

 

[JLMACN]

^^^so what about all your ancestors that were sacraficing people and eating them.......for their gods they believed in????

I mean they didnt know shit about JESUS until the europeans came and slaughtered them in the name of Jesus....for not accepting him...

what happens to all those Mayans, Aztecs, Taranscans, etc?

5000

 

[2-0-NINE]

so what about all your ancestors that were sacraficing people and eating them.......for their gods they believed in????

In other ancient Civilizations that did not know Jesus, was Killing their own Kin a common thing? NO! There are some that die even after Jesus came, and IMHO God Judges on His standards, not mine. I think even though they might of never known Jesus, he will judged them on the way they lived their life.

I mean they didnt know shit about JESUS until the europeans came and slaughtered them in the name of Jesus....for not accepting him...

Did Jesus do the same thing? Are these true Men of Jesus then? Like Heresy said in an earlier post, when these men had learned about the True teaching of the religion, did they not use those teaching to justify equality, and the good part of Christianity?

what happens to all those Mayans, Aztecs, Taranscans, etc?

All Above

 

[ParkBoyz]

Christ came into this world to be the Final Sacrificial Lamb, for the Remissions of Sins, to give salvation to all those who believe in Him, Deutornomy 18:18, John 3:16.

Accepting him and who he is, is one part, there's more as you grow in faith with him.

To those Billions of People that weren't saved before his time read 1st Peter 3:18-20

Those Special things, were to live righteously, Serve God, and Make Sacrifices for him. Such as giving up your best Calf, or 1/10 of your income, keeping the 10 Commandments, and living in Accordance to the Laws Which God gave Moses.

You think Moses, Abraham, Noah, and those who were Proclaimed as "Just" In God's Eyes did not know they had to worship and accept God?

The Use of Jesus, was to provide the Final Sacrifice of Sin, so that the Law, which was penalty of death because of Sin, was to End with Jesus. He also extended his hand to the Gentiles because for the Most Part, the Tanakh or Torah pertained mostly to the Hebrews and Jews. He gave salvation and the New Covenant to the Gentiles as well to make the Jews Jealous, after All he divorced Israel in Jeremiah 3:8.

God did not flip the script look in my last statement. If you meaning adding the Golden rule to Love one another, to forgive those who ask for forgiveness, to be good to those that are evil towards you, to give alms to the poor and lame, flipping the script, it's not. It's the exact same thing he told those in the Old Testament.

Moses did as a matter of fact accept Jesus as saviour. Remember Deuteronomy 18:18. Jesus was with Moses on Mt. Sinai, he was also referred to in the Old Testament as "THE angel of the Lord". The angel that wrestled with Jacob, Dislocated his hip, and names him Israel. He was in the Furnace in the Book of Daniel when Nebuchadnezzar through Mishach, Shadrach, and Abednego, they said There was a fourth person as if It were the SON OF GOD. All Prophets or preordained men and women in the Old Testament already accepted Jesus, because Jesus was the Very Person guiding them with the Holy Spirit.

If I confused you more, please let me know. God Bless

So basically we have an upper hand to those people who existed before Jesus came here and died? How could Moses accept Jesus when Jesus had yet to die on the cross, in that sense is how I meant it, we have to accept that Jesus "Died" for our Sins, but Moses didn't? And basically since everyone before that was a sinner (including Moses), how did he gain entry into heaven with out accepting Christ as his savior? What I mean is, Moses couldn't of accepted Jesus Christ as his savior because Jesus wasn't even here yet to die for Sin.. And you're saying that before this, the people who were not "Just" had no chance at salvation, but after Jesus, the unjust people do by simply accepting Christ? Is that really fair? It is still very confusing my friend, I need more clarification please.

 

[2-0-NINE]

So basically we have an upper hand to those people who existed before Jesus came here and died?

Yes, Somewhat, but if the people back then Lived a life of Good Moral and righteousness and worship of God, wouldn't of been any problems. Obedience

How could Moses accept Jesus when Jesus had yet to die on the cross, in that sense is how I meant it

He did What Jesus Told him to do, Jesus Guided him throughout his Journey On earth. He was Yahweh. By accepting him then, he accepted him now. If The Prophets lived during the Time of Jesus, all of the Jews would have accepted Jesus, because the Prophets would have known it was him.

we have to accept that Jesus "Died" for our Sins, but Moses didn't?

Read Above

And basically since everyone before that was a sinner (including Moses), how did he gain entry into heaven with out accepting Christ as his savior?

By His Grace, If you lived a Just Life and like I said in Accordance to God, you would enter heaven. In some cases People remained asleep our In Abraham's Bosom before they entered Heaven. When Jesus Died and rose from the Grave, this Paradise(a place where souls waited for God to bring them up) was taken away when Jesus ascended into Heaven. Those in Paradise that were meant to go to heaven went with Jesus as he ascended, those who were going to hell went to Hell. Now Since Jesus has risen, all those who die until this day, remain in their graves until Jesus Comes Back to judge us all.

What I mean is, Moses couldn't of accepted Jesus Christ as his savior because Jesus wasn't even here yet to die for Sin.

Do you not understand who Jesus is, JOhn 1:1, he is the foundation of the earth, He is GOD, and He as the Messiah, was God Incarnate in Man, and at the same time FULL GOD AND FULL MAN. Jesus is God, so everytime there was a conversation with a person of the bible, that person would be speaking to God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Three Persons, but One God. The Holy Trinity. Not separate gods

And you're saying that before this, the people who were not "Just" had no chance at salvation

I didn't say that, those who were unjust and evil in those days were against God, and no matter what convincing any man did they would not listen. Remember what Moses Told the Pharaoh, remember what Noah told the World of the Flood? Do you not remember what Jeremiah told Israel if they would not stop their Evil ways, well they continued and look what happened. Salvation was always there.

but after Jesus, the unjust people do by simply accepting Christ?

Yes

Is that really fair?

Yes, God turned a man that was killing his followers, Saul of Tarsus into Paul, eventually becoming a Martry of Jesus Christ. Does it seem fair God chose a man Murdering his followers, to become his Follower, Yes.

 

[ParkBoyz]

Yes, Somewhat, but if the people back then Lived a life of Good Moral and righteousness and worship of God, wouldn't of been any problems. Obedience

He did What Jesus Told him to do, Jesus Guided him throughout his Journey On earth. He was Yahweh. By accepting him then, he accepted him now. If The Prophets lived during the Time of Jesus, all of the Jews would have accepted Jesus, because the Prophets would have known it was him.

Read Above

By His Grace, If you lived a Just Life and like I said in Accordance to God, you would enter heaven. In some cases People remained asleep our In Abraham's Bosom before they entered Heaven. When Jesus Died and rose from the Grave, this Paradise(a place where souls waited for God to bring them up) was taken away when Jesus ascended into Heaven. Those in Paradise that were meant to go to heaven went with Jesus as he ascended, those who were going to hell went to Hell. Now Since Jesus has risen, all those who die until this day, remain in their graves until Jesus Comes Back to judge us all.

Do you not understand who Jesus is, JOhn 1:1, he is the foundation of the earth, He is GOD, and He as the Messiah, was God Incarnate in Man, and at the same time FULL GOD AND FULL MAN. Jesus is God, so everytime there was a conversation with a person of the bible, that person would be speaking to God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Three Persons, but One God. The Holy Trinity. Not separate gods

I didn't say that, those who were unjust and evil in those days were against God, and no matter what convincing any man did they would not listen. Remember what Moses Told the Pharaoh, remember what Noah told the World of the Flood? Do you not remember what Jeremiah told Israel if they would not stop their Evil ways, well they continued and look what happened. Salvation was always there.

Yes
Yes, God turned a man that was killing his followers, Saul of Tarsus into Paul, eventually becoming a Martry of Jesus Christ. Does it seem fair God chose a man Murdering his followers, to become his Follower, Yes.

Wish I knew how to do that quotation thing ya'll do.. Anyways.. I also forgot to ask, so if all one had to do before Jesus arrived was to be just, and follow God's laws, then what use was Jesus? Why did we need him? He just wanted to make things easier or what? Again, why wasn't it so easy B.C(before christ)? Doesn't seem too fair..

And I hear you, Moses was talking to Jesus when he talked to God, and accepted/loved God.. But that isn't enough for us though is it? Don't we have to say Jesus' name when we pray? We can't simply say in the name of God and never acknowledge that he came to earth and died on the cross. Moses only prayed to Elohim/Yahweh, not to Yeshua/Jesus.. What's with the change and why was it truly necessary?

As for Paul, I think it's fair. It says over and over again to repent right? Paul repented, therefor was forgiven, does it matter if he killed Christians, Jews, or Gentiles? A sin is a sin, even Moses killed before.

 

[2-0-NINE]

Wish I knew how to do that quotation thing ya'll do.. Anyways.. I also forgot to ask, so if all you had to do before Jesus came was be just, and follow God's laws, then what use was Jesus? Why did we need him? He just wanted to make things easier or what? Again, why wasn't it so easy B.C(before christ)? Doesn't seem too fair..

Because salvation was mainly for the Jews, this time IT WAS FOR THE WORLD.

And I hear you, Moses was talking to Jesus when he talked to God, and accepted/loved God.. But that isn't enough for us thogh is it? Don't we have to say Jesus' name when we pray?

John 14:6 Jesus Saith unto him, I am the Way, The Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

We can't simply say in the name of God and never acknowledge that he came to earth and died on the cross.

Read Above

Moses only prayed to Elohim/Yahweh, not to Yeshua/Jesus.. What's with the change and why was it truly necessary?

Jesus is Yahweh, Elohim. John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also; and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

John 14:9-31

9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

29And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

31But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.


Courtesy of Bible.com

As for Paul, I think it's fair. It says over and over again to repent right? Paul repented, therefor was forgiven, does it matter if he killed Christians, Jews, or Gentiles?

Nope

A sin is a sin, even Moses killed before.

There's a difference between Murdering, and Killing during a time of War and defense.

 

[WHITE DEVIL]

This shit makes me laugh though.

At Reagan National this week, Rabbis joined the Muslims at the prayer protest -- though one imagines they did not share this prayer from the Hadith: "And the Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: 'O Muslim, O servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'" In fairness, they usually save that one for the high holidays, like the "Festival of the Six Dead Jews" or "Honor Killing Week."
Nor this one, also from the Hadith: "The Prophet said: 'The Hour will not take place until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them. The Muslims will kill the Jews. Rejoice! Rejoice in Allah's victory!'"

 

[ParkBoyz]

@ STOCKTON
About Moses killing a man.. God says "Thou shall not kill". He never says Thou shall not kill, unless.. It's a sin.. And can you please explain this quote.

"You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you ' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." John 14:28

^sounds like something a separate entity would say.. And didn't jesus also say as one of his last words on the cross, "lord, why hath thou forsaken me?"... Who was he talking to? Himself? Doesn't he have a clear knowledge that he is God? How can he even question that?

Imo Jesus made it harder to get into heaven with all of these confusing and contradictory quotes he made(if these were really his words)..

And again, if the Jews were the only ones promised salvation, what about the billions of Gentiles before? They perish simply because of a bloodline?

 

[2-0-NINE]

You should have Posted that in the Questions for Muslims Thread. That makes a good argument. Good and Funny Find WHITE DEVIL.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

This shit makes me laugh though.

At Reagan National this week, Rabbis joined the Muslims at the prayer protest -- though one imagines they did not share this prayer from the Hadith: "And the Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: 'O Muslim, O servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'" In fairness, they usually save that one for the high holidays, like the "Festival of the Six Dead Jews" or "Honor Killing Week."
Nor this one, also from the Hadith: "The Prophet said: 'The Hour will not take place until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them. The Muslims will kill the Jews. Rejoice! Rejoice in Allah's victory!'"

More Ann Coulter huh?

 

[2-0-NINE]

^But God says "Thou shall not kill". He never says Thou shall not kill, unless.. It's a sin.. And can you please explain this quote.

I think the Hebrew word was closer to Murder than Kill. Cause if that was the case, why Did David Kill Goliath. God Is Just.

sounds like something a separate entity would say.. And didn't jesus also say as one of his last words on the cross, "lord, why hath thou forsaken me?"

Another Distinct Person, Jesus is distinct from God the Father, and the Holy Spirit. But still one with Them, just like an Egg. I have been successful and unsuccessful in this analogy. But you separate an egg, with it's yoke, whites, and Shell. Distinct from Each other, yet still one in association with the Whole Egg.

Who was he talking to?

God the Father

Himself? Doesn't he have a clear knowledge that he is God?

No not himself, but since he was full of Sin God the Father could not look at his own son, because he bore our sins on his shoulder. So Yeshua asked his Father why He had forsaken him. He knows He's God, yet at the same time the emotions going through his head are those of Man.

How can he even question that?

He doesn't.

Imo Jesus made it harder to get into heaven with all of these confusing and contradictory quotes he made(if these were really his words)..

Not for a Scholar or person looking for the Truth. Like you said, you lack knowledge in Jesus, so that's why it may seem contradictory to you. Read the Bible, and have pastors help you understand the Fundamentals and Basis of Christ's Way.

And again, if the Jews were the only ones promised salvation, what about the billions of Gentiles before? They perish simply because of a bloodline?

Abraham was not Jewish, Adam was not Jewish, Noah was not Jewish. Most of the people that followed God were the Jews during those times.

 

[ParkBoyz]

I think the Hebrew word was closer to Murder than Kill. Cause if that was the case, why Did David Kill Goliath. God Is Just.

Another Distinct Person, Jesus is distinct from God the Father, and the Holy Spirit. But still one with Them, just like an Egg. I have been successful and unsuccessful in this analogy. But you separate an egg, with it's yoke, whites, and Shell. Distinct from Each other, yet still one in association with the Whole Egg.

God the Father

No not himself, but since he was full of Sin God the Father could not look at his own son, because he bore our sins on his shoulder. So Yeshua asked his Father why He had forsaken him. He knows He's God, yet at the same time the emotions going through his head are those of Man.

He doesn't.
Not for a Scholar or person looking for the Truth. Like you said, you lack knowledge in Jesus, so that's why it may seem contradictory to you. Read the Bible, and have pastors help you understand the Fundamentals and Basis of Christ's Way.

Abraham was not Jewish, Adam was not Jewish, Noah was not Jewish. Most of the people that followed God were the Jews during those times.

1. Good explanation about Moses, I can't respond to that and would have to agree..

2. This trinity thing is so weird.. Again, how can God be "greater" than Jesus if they're one and the same?

3. So basically he's talking to someone else?


4. Jesus was full of Sin? That's not how I saw it. I thought that man kind is only sinful because of the actions of Adam, Jesus was of God, not of man. Am I missing something?

5. He did question God I thought? God didn't forsake him, did he? Didn't Jesus know his purpose here?

6. You may be right, but a lot of this shit seems to contradict and is so hard to understand, I may consult a pastor.

7. But STOCKTON, you said, "Because salvation was mainly for the Jews, this time IT WAS FOR THE WORLD.", so who was salvation really for if Abraham, Adam, and Noah were not Jewish?


btw, I'm not jamming you, just trying to understand.

 

[2-0-NINE]

This trinity thing is so weird.. Again, how can God be "greater" than Jesus if they're one and the same?

Did you understand my egg analogy, if not I'll be glad to further elaborate.

So basically he's talking to someone else?

Yes

Jesus was full of Sin? That's not how I saw it. I thought that man kind is only sinful because of the actions of Adam, Jesus was of God, not of man. Am I missing something?

In order for him to save us from Sin, he took the Law and all of the World's Sins, NOT HIS, on his shoulder. The father cannot be with you when you're full of Sin.

He did question God? God didn't forsake him, did he? Didn't Jesus know his purpose here?

For that Time the Father did, He couldn't look at Jesus because he was full of our Sins, not his.

You may be right, but a lot of this shit seems to contradict and is so hard to understand, I may consult a pastor.

That would be good to consult a Pastor, I pray that Jesus helps you find the Right pastor my brother.

But STOCKTON, you said, "Because salvation was mainly for the Jews, this time IT WAS FOR THE WORLD.", so who was salvation really for if Abraham, Adam, and Noah were not Jewish?

I could easily say for men whom God Preordained, but then I'd try to play the role of God.

btw, I'm not jamming you, just trying to understand.

Not Mad at all, actually Glad, I got laid off two weeks ago damn!