Commercial vs. The Streets

[ParadoxMRR]

I understand the argument that a lot of people are making, that it's worth it to do a commercial track so get can get radio play... but look at the facts.. how many bay area artists who do that actually get any spins outside of the bay? (Salinas doesn't count)

Sure, if you're set up with real financial backing from a major label , I can see where that would make sense. But motherfuckers from the bay don't want to hear that shit.

Everytime I hear "Snap Yo Fingaz" I change the station... I'd much rather bump Sick Wid It Umbrella - The Machine or Turf Talk.

If you honestly believe that you can get nationwide play and that motherfuckers in New York and Atlanta are gonna be bumping your shit, go ahead and do it... E-40 can get away with that for now. But I doubt anyone on this board is in that kind of position. You risk alienating your fanbase, or if you're unknown, not even developing one in the first place.

Look at some examples.... Mistah FAB.. tried too hard to crossover, went too far with the silly stuff.. lost his buzz. Ya Boy - probably the dopest MC to come out of the bay but barely anyone knows about him because he doesn't cater to the bay sound. He raps over cloned Dr. Dre beats and puts out singles like "Fallin In Love". If you're already huge, it makes sense to use that kind of approach. But as someone who doesn't sell more than a few thousand records, you're just gonna be another drop in the bucket of the thousands of rappers out there with regional buzz who all have auto-tune choruses and are fighting for the very limited space in the corporate rap world.

Now look at the examples of regional successes who sell the most records...

Messy Marv.. Kept it real to the streets, still sells despite his precarious reputation.

Jacka... did his own style until radio demanded an "All Over Me"... never tried to follow the formula, he just kept it real and as a result he became the hottest artist in the bay right now. He may be fucking up though because, AGAIN, with the new album he's trying to hard to crossover, resulting in way too many features..

No disrespect intended to anyone cause I got love for all bay artists, but it all comes down to making music that people really love.

Craig Kallman of Atlantic Records said the same thing in an interview... The most important thing is that when you put a record on at a party, it's so good that people have no choice but to run to the store and get it.. Big name features and big name producers, and industry trends can be a tool to help you, but they won't make you sell records or guarantee a hit... just listen to "Goin Crazy" for an example of what I mean

 

[StupidFace]

I understand the argument that a lot of people are making, that it's worth it to do a commercial track so get can get radio play... but look at the facts.. how many bay area artists who do that actually get any spins outside of the bay? (Salinas doesn't count)

Sure, if you're set up with real financial backing from a major label , I can see where that would make sense. But motherfuckers from the bay don't want to hear that shit.

Everytime I hear "Snap Yo Fingaz" I change the station... I'd much rather bump Sick Wid It Umbrella - The Machine or Turf Talk.

If you honestly believe that you can get nationwide play and that motherfuckers in New York and Atlanta are gonna be bumping your shit, go ahead and do it... E-40 can get away with that for now. But I doubt anyone on this board is in that kind of position. You risk alienating your fanbase, or if you're unknown, not even developing one in the first place.

Look at some examples.... Mistah FAB.. tried too hard to crossover, went too far with the silly stuff.. lost his buzz. Ya Boy - probably the dopest MC to come out of the bay but barely anyone knows about him because he doesn't cater to the bay sound. He raps over cloned Dr. Dre beats and puts out singles like "Fallin In Love". If you're already huge, it makes sense to use that kind of approach. But as someone who doesn't sell more than a few thousand records, you're just gonna be another drop in the bucket of the thousands of rappers out there with regional buzz who all have auto-tune choruses and are fighting for the very limited space in the corporate rap world.

Now look at the examples of regional successes who sell the most records...

Messy Marv.. Kept it real to the streets, still sells despite his precarious reputation.

Jacka... did his own style until radio demanded an "All Over Me"... never tried to follow the formula, he just kept it real and as a result he became the hottest artist in the bay right now. He may be fucking up though because, AGAIN, with the new album he's trying to hard to crossover, resulting in way too many features..

No disrespect intended to anyone cause I got love for all bay artists, but it all comes down to making music that people really love.

Craig Kallman of Atlantic Records said the same thing in an interview... The most important thing is that when you put a record on at a party, it's so good that people have no choice but to run to the store and get it.. Big name features and big name producers, and industry trends can be a tool to help you, but they won't make you sell records or guarantee a hit... just listen to "Goin Crazy" for an example of what I mean

Mr.FAB and YaBoy are 2 bay area mc's that I either cant stand or are just plain boring to me (just my opinion). YaBoy because he sounds generic as hell and Fab pretty much for the reasons you mentioned. His songs got so gimmickey that they were something I played once then couldnt listen to again. Used to be a fan though, like when his first album dropped.

I'll still keep buying bay sound cd's like I do now, but like I&K said, mostly women buy rap music. I buy like 4-8 cd's a year at most and there's probably not too many fans like me (outside the region buying bay cd's regularly) so yeah, financially, you're much better off trying to appeal to teenage girls or some mass audience. It is a business.

 

[MaddDogg]

I completely agree with you. Many artists are trying to enter a market with their music that is already over-saturated particularly in commercial radio. Hip-Hop already has artists like 50 Cent and Rick Ross talking about throwing money in the sky and already has bubble gum rappers making quick gingles to make money. There's no room to enter that kind of market with the same beats and the same sound. No one is looking to SF or Oakland or Sacramento to find someone to compete with Rick Ross.

 

[ParadoxMRR]

I completely agree with you. Many artists are trying to enter a market with their music that is already over-saturated particularly in commercial radio. Hip-Hop already has artists like 50 Cent and Rick Ross talking about throwing money in the sky and already has bubble gum rappers making quick gingles to make money. There's no room to enter that kind of market with the same beats and the same sound. No one is looking to SF or Oakland or Sacramento to find someone to compete with Rick Ross.

MaddDogg you hit it right there.

Indecent, I agree with most of what you said (women being the main consumers, people outside not wanting to hear "bay this bay that") but when the executives and DJ's are choosing which of the thousands of songs submitted to them they're going to play, why would they pick a bay area artist with no fanbase? Even artists with universally appealing hit quality material (Fast Like a Nascar?, Bottles Up? Vans? Code Of The Streets?) haven't been able to penetrate the mass market. The reason bay artists who have major label deals - you all know who I'm talking about - are still putting out local CD's and pre-albums is that when the executives (who don't give a fuck about the music) are looking at the numbers, it doesn't make financial sense to invest in an artist from our area when they could put that same money into an artist from Atlanta and make a lot more $$$.

We need to do what Houston did...

They made music that was both universally appealing AND locally appealing, and already had huge followings in their region. They started locally and expanded globally once they had hit the tipping point of potential growth within their region.

Laroo is a good example of making singles that appeal to the women but can appeal to the streets too.. there are other examples I'm sure. But if you start out on the Kanye tip people are gonna ignore you. No one gives a fuck about a watered down bay area version of Kanye West. Or Akon.

Like Russell Simmons book title "Do You". Brother Lynch Hung, UGK, AZ... there are a lot of artists that have careers because they make music for THEIR fans instead of making music for Lil Wayne's fans...

This is not to say we shouldn't try to penetrate the commercial market, only that we should be calculated about it and not shoot ourselves in the foot before we even get off the ground

 

[Simpaticone1]

The rest of the US would rather listen to snap yo fingers or some weird Kayne shit.....
Its a sad reality to us. I would love to jump in my ride on my way to work and have Cellski bumpin on radio. KMEL has never FULLY supported bay artist. They have always been half ass about it.


I don't agree w/ doing it like Houston- Were tha BAY we gotta do it our way or no way!!!!!!!! NO COPY CAT SHIT

 

[ParadoxMRR]

I don't agree w/ doing it like Houston- Were tha BAY we gotta do it our way or no way!!!!!!!! NO COPY CAT SHIT

I didn't mean copying Houston's musical style. I meant utilizing their type of business and promotional strategies... from a bay perspective.. yadadamean?

 

[Simpaticone1]

^ my bad....... Your right we would benifit from their business and Promotional strategies

 

[LEFT]

At the end of the day artist have to honest with themselves and make the music that represents them best. Once you began making singles or street songs that don't fit you outside of your rap persona, the fakeness will shine through. If the artist can sleep at night and the people that really know them know that their music is speaking the truth...that's all you can ask for.

 

[onmeshow]

I hate to say it, but clyde carson is the only person left i think has a chance to break out nationally. ya boy can too, but i don't even listen to him anymore.

you also have to consider that the music industry in general is slumping, especially rap music. it used to be your album was considered a failure if it didn't sell atleast a million, now selling a million is big news.

making street music isn't profitable now, because they appeal to males, and guys bootleg music. females are the ones that actually go out and purchase music. you see r&b is doing just fine.

 

[Sick Wid It]

FACT - Women are the biggest consumer of Hip hop period,. Do you think they want to hear about hustlin, Im from this, im from that, Bay this, Bay that? NO! They want what you dont want.... Music that they can relate to.

Wrong, 15-25 year old white males are. You are confusing rap with r&b, of which 20-35 year old females are the biggest consumers.

The idea to 'make songs girls like if you want to sell' is a horrible assumption when the biggest selling rap singles and albums generally didn't have much female appeal at all.

 

[Sick Wid It]

making street music isn't profitable now, because they appeal to males, and guys bootleg music. females are the ones that actually go out and purchase music. you see r&b is doing just fine.

Making "street music" is just as commercial and cliche as anything else these days and the reason it's not selling well has little to do with males bootlegging the music instead of buying it. Single-track digital sales are killing album sales because for the first time consumers can pick only the songs they actually want to pay for. Consumer interest isn't invested in like it used to be either, and I don't blame the labels one bit. The music business landscape has changed and in many ways the value of an artist has decreased in terms of their music. This can get really deep really quick, and honestly way out of most peoples frame-of-reference so I won't bother to keep going.

Btw, r&b is suffering too, don't get it twisted. I'd agree that it's not suffering as bad but the difference isn't male/female -- it's young kid/mature adult. Generally speaking r&b caters to a small but more grown and mature audience then rap does.

 

[retardo]

iz there ANYBODY from the bay national????

 

[TIME EX]

When in dout just stay in you're zone when doinig music.....

 

[Artistic]

At the end of the day artist have to honest with themselves and make the music that represents them best.

i agree with this statement. artists gotta do them and be able to look themself in the mirror. so if you on some revolutionary shit or some fly shit or some dboy shit you just gotta go all out with your style. i'd rather do me and fail than win copying someone's formula.

 

[king dru]

at the end of the day, it is about money.

If the artists is staying true to himself and not selling, best believe he is gonna throw on t-pain or akon (or Matt Blaque in the Bay) to try and get some females to spend some money on it.

 

[Sick Wid It]

Thanks to technology everybody and their mama is a rapper, singer, or "producer" now. 'Staying true to yourself' doesn't mean much when you haven't honed the craft and art of making music .. when you aren't a "true" artist. Learning how to make songs doesn't automagically make you cut out for it. It doesn't mean you have any real future as an artist. I'm all for people doing them, whatever that may be.. but when the market is totally and completely saturated with sub-par wack shit, or suffers greatly from a lack of creativity, let's respect ourselves enough to 'keep it real' about why consumers have lost interest. Real artists are rare, these days it's just a bunch of mutha fuckas with a beat program and a mic plugged into their computer, and probably autotune plugged into that.

 

[stunnamayne415]

Ya Boy - probably the dopest MC to come out of the bay but barely anyone knows about him because he doesn't cater to the bay sound. He raps over cloned Dr. Dre beats and puts out singles like "Fallin In Love".

actually ya boy and fab are pretty well known in the industry and respected by alot of rappers and a&rs. the bay sound doesnt sell. never has in the past 15 years. its just bay niggas who hate cuz its not mobb enough.

 

[localstar907]

I don't know man ya boy is top 20 on itunes you have to be pushing at least 10,000-50,000 a week to be in that man. The way I see it cats need to stop doing hyphy period. Second cats need to make what they like but also keep the consumer in mind. Only artist I can really say using that formula I can think of is big rich,clyde carson,ya boy. There music can appeal do most music consumers.

 

[ZELSOUND MUSIC]

I'm new to this website and I heard this was a great place for real good debates on the state of rap in the Bay Area. My contact was right. You guys are hitting on some great points. Great discussion.

 

[YungGung]

I don't know man ya boy is top 20 on itunes you have to be pushing at least 10,000-50,000 a week to be in that man. The way I see it cats need to stop doing hyphy period. Second cats need to make what they like but also keep the consumer in mind. Only artist I can really say using that formula I can think of is big rich,clyde carson,ya boy. There music can appeal do most music consumers.

cats still doin hyphy? like who wat cats